Victor Ireland Next Endeavor

TR0N · 07/26/2006, 07:53 PM

Let's hope he can avoid the mistake he made with WD.

wayback.super-nes.com/2006/victor-irelands-next-endeavor

Quote from: Victor Ireland's Next EndeavorAfter buying a Popful Mail Sega CD game from Victor Ireland on ebay, the former head honcho of RPG publisher Working Designs informed me that although Working Designs is no more, he's still not finished bringing Japanese RPGs to the USA. To quote him: "I'm not done bringing JRPGs to the US yet. Keep an eye on gaijinworks.com and we should have something more interesting than a placeholder there by the Fall." So for all the RPG fans out there who are fans of Working Designs, at least there's some light at the end of the tunnel and hopefully this new company will be able to bring US RPG fans some fresh new Japanese RPGs for some of the current systems. Click on the Gaijinworks logo to visit the web site, and keep checking it over the coming months to see what might be in store.

I heard he wasn't out of the videogame biz, but i didn't know he wanted to start a new company... i just thought he'd work for another after WD went kaput.

Seldane · 07/26/2006, 07:59 PM

Supposedly they're going to be aiming towards the Xbox 360. I foresee another disaster.

SignOfZeta · 07/26/2006, 11:37 PM

What fun it will be to see him crash and burn again.

I don't think I know of a more egotistical asshole.

OldRover · 07/27/2006, 10:52 AM

If you personally knew the heads of most of the video game producers/localizers, you'd think that a great majority of them were egotistical assholes. Ireland was just the only one with enough balls to bare his asshole to the world, the rest hide behind their gaming label and ten thousand pencil-pushing gimps.

TR0N · 07/30/2006, 08:59 PM

Quote from: "Seldane"Supposedly they're going to be aiming towards the Xbox 360. I foresee another disaster.

Agreed why publish for the 360 in the frist place?

I mean the system is hardly suported in jpn... his new company would be better off publishing for the, PS3 dunno

Seldane · 07/31/2006, 08:24 AM

He doesn't like Sony because they turned them down so many times, I'm pretty sure that's why he's going to try Microsoft this time. He also said something about this in his last WD announcement.

takashirose · 08/01/2006, 08:01 PM

I liked Working Designs. It sucks that I never visited their website and see their museum. Why can't he resurrect Working Designs?

OldRover · 08/01/2006, 10:42 PM

He might not want to be associated with the name anymore, and the industry might also not want to know WD anymore. I personally think WD got the shaft but not everyone agrees with me.

neokellyzero · 08/01/2006, 11:12 PM

Quote from: OldRover on 08/01/2006, 10:42 PMHe might not want to be associated with the name anymore, and the industry might also not want to know WD anymore. I personally think WD got the shaft but not everyone agrees with me.

I do- 100%

takashirose · 08/02/2006, 09:43 AM

Was Working Designs that bad?

NightWolve · 08/02/2006, 10:51 AM

Quote from: "takashirose"Was Working Designs that bad?

To Japanophiles, yes, WD/Vic was pretty much the focus of modern evil in the world... WD did evil things like taking way too many liberties in the script to make it more enjoyable, humorous, inserting awful US pop culture references where they just didn't belong, etc. thus violating the 'sacredness' of the original script authors' intent and all standards of decency/taste.

takashirose · 08/02/2006, 11:24 AM

Like the ebonics part in Albert Odyssey for the Sega saturn? ha ha. I know what you are talking about, but the packaging was great. I did not think that they were that bad. They shouldn't have Americanised the dialogue, but that's all I have to say.

takashirose · 08/02/2006, 11:24 AM

What is "Vic"?

NightWolve · 08/02/2006, 11:29 AM

Short for Victor [Ireland], the head honcho of Working Designs.

Seldane · 08/02/2006, 12:15 PM

I personally love their translation work. I loved the dialogue in Albert Odyssey, but the game was insanely bad--probably the worst RPG on the Saturn! Anyway--the dialogue was great but the game sucked so bad that it was impossible for me to play through it, and therefore I did not get to experience all the great conversations.

Magic Knight Rayearth also had a fanastic script.

OldRover · 08/02/2006, 04:43 PM

Quote from: "NightWolve"To Japanophiles, yes, WD/Vic was pretty much the focus of modern evil in the world... WD did evil things like taking way too many liberties in the script to make it more enjoyable, humorous, inserting awful US pop culture references where they just didn't belong, etc. thus violating the 'sacredness' of the original script authors' intent and all standards of decency/taste.

But Japanophiles are mostly boneheads anyways.

And probably mostly Republicans!

j/k of course

If WD had translated the scripts literally like so many other companies do, we'd have ended up with some extremely BORING games. So many things either do not translate correctly or simply don't make sense when translated to English, that's why things have to be locallized. WD went far beyond what any other company bothered to do and created scripts that were actually based on our culture rather than doing some stale literal translation (or ridiculously dry localization) that made zero sense (or little sense).

As far as "sacredness" goes...they can stuff it up their piehole. I'd rather see someone say "Yo wassup! I'm yo papa! Git yer ass in bed NOW punk!" in a 14th-century-based RPG than say "Hi! I you Father! You go sleep now, yes?". Bad example I realize, but still...you get the idea, I think.

ParanoiaDragon · 08/03/2006, 03:22 AM

Quote from: OldRover on 08/02/2006, 04:43 PM
Quote from: NightWolveTo Japanophiles, yes, WD/Vic was pretty much the focus of modern evil in the world... WD did evil things like taking way too many liberties in the script to make it more enjoyable, humorous, inserting awful US pop culture references where they just didn't belong, etc. thus violating the 'sacredness' of the original script authors' intent and all standards of decency/taste.
But Japanophiles are mostly boneheads anyways. And probably mostly Republicans! j/k of course

If WD had translated the scripts literally like so many other companies do, we'd have ended up with some extremely BORING games. So many things either do not translate correctly or simply don't make sense when translated to English, that's why things have to be locallized. WD went far beyond what any other company bothered to do and created scripts that were actually based on our culture rather than doing some stale literal translation (or ridiculously dry localization) that made zero sense (or little sense).

As far as "sacredness" goes...they can stuff it up their piehole. I'd rather see someone say "Yo wassup! I'm yo papa! Git yer ass in bed NOW punk!" in a 14th-century-based RPG than say "Hi! I you Father! You go sleep now, yes?". Bad example I realize, but still...you get the idea, I think.

Word! WD was great. Plus, too many people focus on what we actually got, & what was supposedly wrong with it.

esteban · 08/03/2006, 07:47 AM

You know, it wasn't until recently that I learned that WD was the ire of so many purists who didn't like the way WD bastardized games (RPG's) during localization.

When we discussed this before, I think EmeraldRocker and maybe DungeonMasterDan mentioned that folks were also upset with WD for promising ship dates prematurely and delivering late, thus making fans wait a long time for certain titles.

I think this is bogus, but some folks are impatient / ungrateful and want everything now, now, now, it seems.

Also, I think EmeraldRocker mentioned that Victor claimed to have added a special new boss / stage in a shoot-em-up (Thunderforce ?), but this was revealed as a lie. If this is true, then it is indeed a sh*tty thing, but it is hardly justifies a hatred of WD.

WD ruled, especially during the 16-bit era.

NightWolve · 08/03/2006, 08:38 AM

Quote from: nodtveidtAnd probably mostly Republicans! j/k of course

Well, I can speak for two who are definitely quite the opposite of that. ;)

Quote from: OldRover on 08/02/2006, 04:43 PMIf WD had translated the scripts literally like so many other companies do, we'd have ended up with some extremely BORING games. So many things either do not translate correctly or simply don't make sense when translated to English, that's why things have to be locallized. WD went far beyond what any other company bothered to do and created scripts that were actually based on our culture rather than doing some stale literal translation (or ridiculously dry localization) that made zero sense (or little sense).

As far as "sacredness" goes...they can stuff it up their piehole. I'd rather see someone say "Yo wassup! I'm yo papa! Git yer ass in bed NOW punk!" in a 14th-century-based RPG than say "Hi! I you Father! You go sleep now, yes?". Bad example I realize, but still...you get the idea, I think.

Indeed!

Quote from: esteban on 08/03/2006, 07:47 AMAlso, I think EmeraldRocker mentioned that Victor claimed to have added a special new boss / stage in a shoot-em-up (Thunderforce ?), but this was revealed as a lie. If this is true, then it is indeed a sh*tty thing, but it is hardly justfies a hatred of WD.

Looking back on that, I think a lot of it was a red herring, if that's the right phrase to use. Any objective mistakes they made would get hyped up to punish them/cost them credibility for their non-purist approach. So Vic made a shitty programming change and you being the Jap nerd that you are had the import to compare and found you liked it the way it was. Cry me an effin' river...

esteban · 08/03/2006, 10:15 AM

Quote from: NightWolve on 08/03/2006, 08:38 AMLooking back on that, I think a lot of it was a red herring, if that's the right phrase to use. Any objective mistakes they made would get hyped up to punish them/cost them credibility for their non-purist approach. So Vic made a shitty programming change and you being the Jap nerd that you are had the import to compare and found you liked it the way it was. Cry me an effin' river...

Seriously. I'm sure the haters would call us "apologists" but I honestly don't understand the hyper-critical approach to analyzing WD.

I think you're right, everything WD did was open for scrutiny, as far as the purists were concerned. Any possible positive effect WD had was discounted quickly, in their eyes.

Hopefully, the *majority* of folks out there liked WD, with only a small, but vocal, segment of fans falling in to the anti-WD camp.

----------------
Finally, as for Victor supporting XBOX 360: he started by supporting the underdog (TG-16), so I think it is neat that he has "returned to his roots" and is supporting another underdog.

I know, lots of folks here will think I'm crazy for calling M$ an underdog, but, seriously, it is. Despite what you read at digg and various VG message boards, the PS3 is going to sell like hotcakes and be an incredibly successful console.

At this point, it is still unclear when MS will actually make a profit with Xbox. Perhaps Xbox 720 will be the turning point in the "console wars", but don't hold your breath.

Seldane · 08/03/2006, 10:22 AM

Quote from: "stevek666"At this point, it is still unclear when MS will actually make a profit with Xbox. Perhaps Xbox 720 will be the turning point in the "console wars", but don't hold your breath.

Console gamers hate computers for a reason.

OldRover · 08/03/2006, 05:45 PM

Quote from: "Seldane"Console gamers hate computers for a reason.

Which is ironic, considering every console that's ever been released IS a computer.

takashirose · 08/03/2006, 06:53 PM

Actually all the systems except PS1 and 2 that Working Designs worked on were underdogs: TG16, Sega CD, and Sega Saturn. I personally liked Working Designs. I loved their high quality packaging. I want to get Exile 2 for TG-CD. I saw the packaging and said "wow". I didn't want them gone. I also liked their logo, but never knew its meaning.

Seldane · 08/03/2006, 08:47 PM

I think Working Designs made terrible game packages. Just look at Magic Knight Rayearth, for example... looks like a seven year old girl designed that one.

What's up with all the gold and shiny textures? Horrible! And WHY does it say Action RPG in the middle of the picure?

Another

They sure like putting borders on their pics. And ridiculous text (Ultra Series). A third

CrackTiger · 08/04/2006, 12:07 AM

I never completely loved WD but I certainly never hated them.

Its pretty much the same as any other publisher. Although I love so many Capcom games, I probably don't like 90% of their entire catalog now.

Although I loved some WD scripts/dubs, the only one I wound up skipping through quite a bit was the Hanz & Franz character in Popful Mail. But I loved most of the rest of the localization(except for the dificulty, if WD really did up it) of the same game.

And even with all of the little jokes/references in places of some of their games which I might not have appreciated, the cool thing is that you usually can just skip it and enjoy the rest of the game.

But at least you'd be playing the game in english and not have to import in the first place(although I couldn't wait for Lunar SSS).

Although WD's translations seem to be known for their sense of humour, what I always loved most and remember most is their dark serious work, like Exile or even Vay.

OldRover · 08/04/2006, 12:12 AM

Some of their work ended up better than the original stuff...the best example of this was the opening song for the original Lunar. The Japanese one is some of the sappiest BS I've ever had the misfortune of having to see and hear but the WD version is much much better.

CrackTiger · 08/04/2006, 12:48 AM

Quote from: OldRoverSome of their work ended up better than the original stuff...the best example of this was the opening song for the original Lunar. The Japanese one is some of the sappiest BS I've ever had the misfortune of having to see and hear but the WD version is much much better.

I still wonder how much of Exile's story/back story was part of the japanese original and how much, if any, WD brainstormed.

Although its not my kinda music, I was really impressed by the english them song in Lunar SS when it first came out, if for no other reason than the fact that they actually even made an attempt to to do a professional english song, let alone pull it off so well. I'm not dissing it, but thinking about the little 'rap' section(hey! hey! scritch! scratch!) still makes me laugh a little.

What was very cool, again for the time it was unheard of, is the english vs japanese lyrics sections in the manuals and general translation notes/essay. I valued this kinda stuff more than the foil embossed covers.

OldRover · 08/04/2006, 07:11 AM

From what I understand, Exile got a lot of changes because the story was too harsh for the oversensitive US public.

Thje intro to Lunar was pretty cool, the music was pretty decent. What I always had a problem with though is the cinema itself...about half of it was a total ripoff of the opening cinema in Ys I. Watch the cinema for the TG-CD Ys (when you start a new game), then the Lunar cinema and make note of all the stuff that's practically identical...it's rather shameful IMO.

CrackTiger · 08/04/2006, 08:51 AM

Quote from: OldRoverFrom what I understand, Exile got a lot of changes because the story was too harsh for the oversensitive US public.

Thje intro to Lunar was pretty cool, the music was pretty decent. What I always had a problem with though is the cinema itself...about half of it was a total ripoff of the opening cinema in Ys I. Watch the cinema for the TG-CD Ys (when you start a new game), then the Lunar cinema and make note of all the stuff that's practically identical...it's rather shameful IMO.

Isn't Lunar the game with the confused goddess/human girl who is the romantic interest of a teenaged boy who ventures forth from a small village and must collect a legendary set of equipment along the way to defeating a powerful evil creep who hangs out at the top of a tower?

esteban · 08/04/2006, 09:20 AM

Quote from: CrackTiger
Quote from: nodtveidtFrom what I understand, Exile got a lot of changes because the story was too harsh for the oversensitive US public.

Thje intro to Lunar was pretty cool, the music was pretty decent. What I always had a problem with though is the cinema itself...about half of it was a total ripoff of the opening cinema in Ys I. Watch the cinema for the TG-CD Ys (when you start a new game), then the Lunar cinema and make note of all the stuff that's practically identical...it's rather shameful IMO.
Isn't Lunar the game with the confused goddess/human girl who is the romantic interest of a teenaged boy who ventures forth from a small village and must collect a legendary set of equipment along the way to defeating a powerful evil creep who hangs out at the top of a tower?

Hahahahahhaahhaa. You guys rock

I honestly never even thought about the Lunar <-> TG-CD Ys connection. Had I noticed, I would have chalked it up to being "generic" similarities, rather than a direct rip-off, since so many games are derivative of earlier ones.

Perhaps I was being too forgiving of Lunar.

-------------

As for Working Designs, I can safely say that I never regretted a single dollar spent on any of their releases. I thoroughly enjoyed the games they published and *always* got my money's worth, which is quite a feat, as far as I am concerned.

No, not all of their releases were *the best ever*, but theirs was a *LOVE* that permeated through their entire catalog and you couldn't help but notice it, even if you only occasionally sampled their stuff.

WD had been dying a slow death for several years -- and I think folks tend to remember this moribund phase of WD's lifespan instead of their earlier, more dazzling eras.

takashirose · 08/04/2006, 04:28 PM

I actually like the Albert Odyssey cover by Working Designs. How about the Lunar games for the PS1. I don't have them, but I rember the advertisements that showed what was included. For a $10 premium, I think it is worth it.

CrackTiger · 08/04/2006, 08:32 PM

QuoteAs for Working Designs, I can safely say that I never regretted a single dollar spent on any of their releases. I thoroughly enjoyed the games they published and *always* got my money's worth, which is quite a feat, as far as I am concerned.

That sums it up best. Although there were aspects of WD's work in particular titles that weren't for me, I definately never regretted buying any of their stuff.

How many publishers can you say this about?

Paladin · 08/05/2006, 01:31 AM

I agree with Steve as there was just something about a WD release that felt like at least some care and love was put into the game. Sometimes I think most of the WD haters out there really just wanted the attention their opinions granted them. For example I know people complain about how Silhouette Mirage's difficulty was upped by making things more expensive, but I enjoyed the increased challenge. It made an easy game into something fairly challenging.

To be honest I think Sony just really screwed them over. When one looks at all the stuff WD brought over and wanted to bring over you can tell they had good taste in video games. Here and there you find a game that wasn't great, but overall those people knew what good games looked, sounded, and played like. So the only real explanation I can think of is that Sony's constant refusal drove them into the ground.

As far as trying to pick up the pieces and move on; I wish him luck. I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of the Working Designs releases that I own so its the least I can do.

CrackTiger · 08/05/2006, 12:16 PM

QuoteSometimes I think most of the WD haters out there really just wanted the attention their opinions granted them.

Thats exactly it. I got frustrated at times by the gameplay "improvements" in their games (way more than "script changes") and for a long time all I ever read was how great WD was and could do no wrong.

Pobody's nerfect.

GUTS · 08/05/2006, 10:11 PM

The only time Working Designs ever screwed up in my opinion was when they messed with the difficulty on Elemental Gearbolt by making certain small enemies take more than one hit with the powerful gun, it totally messed up the flow of the game. But I still enjoyed it, the Japanese version is just better if you're going for a score run.

TR0N · 08/06/2006, 04:59 PM

Quote from: stevek666You know, it wasn't until recently that I learned that WD was the ire of so many purists who didn't like the way WD bastardized games (RPG's) during localization.

When we discussed this before, I think EmeraldRocker and maybe DungeonMasterDan mentioned that folks were also upset with WD for promising ship dates prematurely and delivering late, thus making fans wait a long time for certain titles.
.

Can't say I was bothered by their translations.

Really, the only thing that annoyed me the most about them.. was their release dates, if any at all.

WD should have learned earlier on to list the games as TBA if they were not sure about the release date in the first place

kenomac78 · 04/26/2007, 05:45 AM

i know this topic is a bit old but its still important, and seeing as since nothing has still not come out of Gaijinworks, i thought id give my opinion too

FIRST! any company who increases the number of titles for the TG16 is/was tops in my book. second add that the were all great games regardless of translation!

secondly after the end of the saturn, the playstation was the only game in town, honestly. it was it or nothing. the fact that they put anything out is amazing, but it is understandable after the fact why so many games were delayed.

as for the translations, i liked them. i hated the 100 or so poor translations which had to make you guess what they were trying to say in the first place. it was cool to see american references and humor, especially in RPGs! I'm in favor of taking something 'sacred' and shaking it up. The only changes i am against are for censorship purposes. a la the shower scene in Cosmic Fantasy 2

they also proved that box sets with extras could be accepted here, even though very few have come out since.

GUTS · 04/26/2007, 02:54 PM

Actually nearly every single game coming out now has a special edition version, it's really annoying as fuck. I hate special editions, I only buy regular releases that fit nicely in my rack and don't look all gaudy.

NecroPhile · 04/26/2007, 05:08 PM

Screw super literal translations. What difference does it make if some cheesy ass dialog is replaced with some different cheesy ass dialog? Folks, it ain't Shakespeare (or some more relevant author).

Screw pricey special editions too. Yay!! Only twice the cost for the same f'n game but in a tin box with paper figurines, some stickers, and a ring of ignorance. Cram it with walnuts, ugly.

ParanoiaDragon · 04/27/2007, 03:02 AM

I love special editions, & as for the contents, I take the extra stuff & store it away safely, like with my Lunar's.

BTW, the shower scene, actually was unedited. I have the japanese version, it looks the same. However, I also have the Cosmic Fantasy Visual Collection. On there, for some reason, it's shows her pepperoni's, kind of odd.

Joe Redifer · 04/27/2007, 05:43 AM

I don't like boxes that differ from the norm on the system. You can't store them with the rest. I also avoid DVD special editions because of this and also because I only care about the movie itself and rarely watch the extra crap.

ParanoiaDragon · 04/27/2007, 06:51 AM

With movies, I agree. Unless the special edition is in a regular case, then I'd probably get that. But with games, I'm still able to put my Lunar's & Growlanser in with the regular games, & keep the other stuff seperate. There are some dvd boxsets however, that I can't keep with regular dvd's. I have the remastered Robotech Collection, & I'm not able to fit that thing in with everthing else, so, I keep it on top

kenomac78 · 04/27/2007, 09:30 AM

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 04/27/2007, 03:02 AMI love special editions, & as for the contents, I take the extra stuff & store it away safely, like with my Lunar's.

BTW, the shower scene, actually was unedited. I have the Japanese version, it looks the same. However, I also have the Cosmic Fantasy Visual Collection. On there, for some reason, it's shows her pepperoni's, kind of odd.

youre right! it was the middle finger scene that was changed. but name a system and you can name an altered game for it.

but ill o'pine that none of WD's games were 'special editions' in the respect that they all had only one standard version. you couldnt buy lunar without the extras and only the game. unless of course you bought it off the used rack at gamestop in 2005

GUTS · 04/27/2007, 04:00 PM

Actually they re-released Lunar as a stand alone, I used to have that version. It even had a new "translation notes" in the manual where Vic talked about how popular it was and how they had to do a reprint. I think Lunar II might have got the same treatment, I hated the psx version though so I never bothered to look for it. Growlanser also had a regular and deluxe edition available when it first came out.

Kitsunexus · 04/27/2007, 08:35 PM

His new company will survive if he:

1. Leaves his humor out of it. I have never laughed at a single Working Designs created joke. Ever.

2. Stop including useless shit with the games. Soundtrack CD's are nice, but stop including fucking cosplay pendants, hardcover manuals, fucking cloth maps and all that shit. Not only is it hardcore homosexual (actually, that's politically incorrect because even the gays wouldn't be caught dead wearing the Lunar pendant), nobody wants it because it means we'll have to pay EVEN MORE for games now.

3. Stop being such a douche. Seriously. Your previous company crashed. You have no more high horse so stop pretending you're on one.

Hobo Xiphas · 04/27/2007, 09:42 PM

I liked Victor's poop jokes - "You are slower than a geriatric bowel movement!"

I don't mind some of the "extras" that you listed. The Working Designs games I own don't have any SUPER SPECIAL ULTRA BONUSES, but I think a hard cover manual would be pretty sweet.

Seldane · 04/28/2007, 08:30 AM

Hardcover manuals rule.