Weird track information in Gate of Thunder

Keranu · 07/19/2007, 02:27 AM

I was browsing their Gate of Thunder's track files tonight to rip a song when I noticed a few strange things in it's contents. I'm sure some have noticed this before and I think it might have even been discussed here before once (or I might be confused with another game).

1. ) There are four data tracks on the entire CD when the usual TGCD game seems to have just one for track02. The data tracks are listed on track numbers 02, 04, 06, and 22. Nero lists these as "Date (mode 1)". I'd like to hear the programmer's here to shed any information they have regarding this

.

2. ) Track number 03 contains a song that I have never heard in the game before. It's a neat song and sounds very different from the other tracks (I'm assuming Nick Wood had nothing to do with this secret song!) and sounds PCE-ish. I have uploaded the track for those who wish to hear it here.

3. ) Track number 05 has no music in it and takes you back to track number 01.

Weird, eh?

Joe Redifer · 07/19/2007, 02:46 AM

3) Not for me. No track prompts my CD player to revert back to track 1 except when the final one finishes. That's because I have a high-technology CD player invented by people from the future that can handle such things.

ccovell · 07/19/2007, 03:23 AM

The data tracks are:

the 3-in-1 menu
Gate of Thunder
Bonk's Adventure, CD version
Bonk's Revenge, CD version

I don't know about the order of the data, but it makes sense now, right?

As for that song, it was used on some other CD game, I heard, though I forget which one. Perhaps it was an example Redbook song (like those example pics on some CDs.)

Turbo D · 07/19/2007, 03:46 AM

what if its not the 3 in 1 cd, what if its the regular gate of thunder? then what will we do?

ccovell · 07/19/2007, 04:37 AM

Well, we could...

1) Move this thread into the PC-Engine section of the forums.
2) Ask Keranu why he wrote "TGCD".
3) Examine the track contents in a hex editor, like any good gamer should.

Keranu · 07/19/2007, 04:59 AM

Sorry, I should've referred it to TGSCD or Duo since that would be the correct name.

Thanks for clearing up the data track issue, chris! I kinda feel like an idiot for not thinking about that!

Joe Redifer · 07/19/2007, 05:54 AM

Where's the Bomberman data track? Is it invisible? Those small 2-meg games sure take up a lot of space on the CD, especially since they only load once (if I recall correctly).

SNKNostalgia · 07/19/2007, 07:15 AM

There are a good amount of TGCD, PCE, Super CD etc..... games that use multiple data tracks like that. I am pretty sure it is to access data faster from music tracks straight to data tracks. This is a 1X speed/low cache CD-Rom drive after all. It really makes sense if you look at it. It is better to go forward into data tracks instead of going from track 15 to track 2. Which reminds me, track 1 is almost always a message "Warning, this track contains digital information which can damage your speakers!!! OR YOU CAN KISS YOUR TWEETERS GOODBYE, MWWUUUHAHAHAHAH!!!!" Thanks Working Designs, I love ya, always have!!!!

Every other system uses track 1 for data and the later tracks are music or dead tracks for space (Neo Geo CD for example).

TurboXray · 07/19/2007, 09:02 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/19/2007, 05:54 AMWhere's the Bomberman data track? Is it invisible? Those small 2-meg games sure take up a lot of space on the CD, especially since they only load once (if I recall correctly).

It's loaded as part the menu select screen.

JoshTurboTrollX · 07/19/2007, 11:54 PM

I think that extra music track is actually the theme music from Sim Earth?

Am I right?

NecroPhile · 07/20/2007, 01:20 AM

I just booted 'er up and you are 100% correct turbo_sage. Now what in the hell is a track from a Maxis game doing in GoT?

Turbo D · 07/20/2007, 01:22 AM

Its all a big conspiracy; japanese game developers getting together and making good games

Keranu · 07/20/2007, 02:23 AM

Quote from: turbo_sage on 07/19/2007, 11:54 PMI think that extra music track is actually the theme music from Sim Earth?

Am I right?

Wow, now that's some crazy stuff. Can someone confirm if this track is in the Japanese version? I'd like to think it had something to do with TTi in America.

Joe Redifer · 07/20/2007, 03:39 AM

Wow. Sim Earth must have some really shitty music.

NecroPhile · 07/20/2007, 09:20 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/20/2007, 03:39 AMWow. Sim Earth must have some really shitty music.

Actually, the in-game music is higher quality redbook rather than this chip sounding stuff. It's kinda jazzy (akin to Vasteel) and I like it, but it definitely has the 'Maxis' sound.

Tatsujin · 07/20/2007, 11:28 AM

i have an other quite smart question also concerning GoT (but as well as other cd-games). when a stage is beaten, everytime the ubercool and legendary "boom-tsch-boom-tsch-boom-tsch..Stage Clear" sounds blows you away in the next corner. as i'm right, this sample is coming from the HuC6280 and not from the CD directly. how it's possible to create such clear and smooth sounds out of the HuC6280? that's what's amazing me after and after again

SNKNostalgia · 07/20/2007, 08:57 PM

PCM samples that are well recorded and executed. Also, it may use some regular sound effects mixed in there. Now I gotta play it to see.

Joe Redifer · 07/20/2007, 11:47 PM

The "Stage Clear" is coming from the PCM, not the TurboGrafx itself. If you listen, you can hear the laser moving while the fool is still busy saying "Stage clear", if I remember correctly.

Tatsujin · 07/21/2007, 03:46 AM

uhm..someone just clear me up PLZ. PCM (Pulse Code Modulation, yes?), doesn't that comes from the HuC6280?

Joe Redifer · 07/21/2007, 04:44 AM

There is an ADPCM inside the CD unit that does sampled sounds. I'm not sure what "AD" stands for, but I'm assuming it's more advanced than the BCPCM which was invented before Jesus.

Tatsujin · 07/21/2007, 08:48 AM

may be. Analog Digital. but good to know.

OldRover · 07/21/2007, 10:20 AM

ADPCM means Adaptive Differential Pulse Code Modulation. The sound chip inside the Hu6280 is not a PCM circuit but a PSG circuit. All the voice samples in GoT use the ADPCM chip, it's far easier to use than the PSG circuit but memory is limited and the samples can only be monophonic, to the best of my knowledge.

Tatsujin · 07/21/2007, 11:13 AM

but this ADPCM device is hooked up in the CD-Drive, but not in the PCE, as joe said it. right?

TurboXray · 07/21/2007, 12:39 PM

Ok - PCM can be streamed to each(or all) of the huc6280 6 sound channels when in those channels are set to DDA mode. The frequency is how fast you can write to the port (higher than 44kHz is easily possible), though it's more realistic to use the internal timer for writing PCM sample effects (up to 7kHz).

The CD base unit adds two things to the PCE - an ADPCM playback controller with it's own 64k of memory and 64k of CD ram to hold game code, etc. You can stream audio into the ADPCM buffer (like many games to for in game voice intermission), but you can also load multiple samples into the ADPCM ram and play them at will. Both Gate and Lords of Thunder use the ADPCM controller for some of the more advanced sound effects with no hit to the CPU resource/cycles (plus is save memory by having the samples in ADPCM memory instead of CD RAM). You can play each sample at a different kHz rate (up to 32kHz - mono), but only one sample at a time. The ADPCM controller used in the CD unit clips at 12bit.

The ADPCM unit is independent of the CD load controller. You can play ADPCM samples while loading from the CD unit or playing CD audio.

Hope that helps.

Tatsujin · 07/21/2007, 02:52 PM

Quote from: TurboXray on 07/21/2007, 12:39 PMHope that helps.

and how it did. thanx for the detailed explanation mal

so that explains a lot. also how the cd-drive can load data for the next stage, while still something's entertain to you

OldRover · 07/21/2007, 03:35 PM

Mysterious Song uses the ADPCM circuit exclusively for all of its sound effects. There wasn't enough memory left for PSG-based samples anyways.

Joe Redifer · 07/21/2007, 03:56 PM

We may have discussed this before, but could a HuCard theoretically take advantage of the ADPCM if the CD unit was attached? Sure, it would mean storing dual versions of those sound effects on the card for people without the CD unit, but I just think it would be cool for no particular reason.

CrackTiger · 07/21/2007, 06:47 PM

I was just thinking about this recently. I converted some HES files from CD games into .PCE roms and upsized them to 256kb for my flash card... but they still don't work.

Anyways, what came to me the other day is that maybe its the ADPCM samples that are the problem(I've noticed them in many CD PSG soundtracks). I was using a Duo to run them, so the ADPCM chip was there.

Even if that is the issue, I'm guessing that it should still be possible for a Duo to play ADPCM off a HuCard.

OldRover · 07/21/2007, 07:23 PM

I imagine it would be possible. For the original units, they always require a HuCard to be present (in the form of a system card) so it's highly likely that the ADPCM circuit is always active and able to be accessed from a normal HuCard if one knows how to do it.

Kitsunexus · 07/21/2007, 07:35 PM

Quote from: turbo D on 07/20/2007, 01:22 AMIts all a big conspiracy; japanese game developers getting together and making good games

Except last time I checked, Maxis was an AMERICAN developer... ¬_¬

sideshow · 07/28/2007, 03:59 PM

I do remember listening to the Gate of Thunder CD on my music CD player and hearing the Sim Earth title track on there thinking what the hell. I wonder if it was intentional to put that on the disc or a complete mix up yet they had no time to fix the mistake of putting that track on there and just went ahead and pressed the damn thing. Maybe its actually a 5 in 1 CD with Sim Earth unlockable somehow?

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Weird track information in Gate of Thunder