Observations on Populous

SignOfZeta · 04/10/2013, 06:57 PM

When at the MGC I bought a copy of Populous for a couple bucks and I'm having a good time with it.

I haven't really spent serious time with this game since it was a new release for the Amiga. I kind of assumed that a PCE version would be slower than something made for an Amiga, but it's not at all. The interface...could be better, I admit, but once you get used to it it's not a problem. I also assumed that there would be a lot of Japanee but there is NONE. None whatsoever, every single thing is in English making me wonder why the hell this didn't come out in the US. The manual (which is nice) is all Japanese, but it's not exactly difficult to find help with Populous since it was a huge hit on half a dozen platforms.

Regarding the whole ROMRAM HuCARD thing...did we ever figure that shit out? A while back there was a topic about this and also the Tennokoe Bank since its the only other ROMRAM HuCARD. Unlike the Tennokoe, Populous has no battery, as we know, and cannot contain a save. I got to thinking though, what makes a ROMRAM HuCARD? Is the the battery or the RAM? Maybe Populous has a small amount of added memory to handle the complex stacking isometric titles and AI? A long shot, but it makes sense. If this were the case though wouldn't the SCD sequel suffer? Does it? I've never played it. Or maybe the Super System card devotes a section of its RAM for the same purpose? Wouldn't this be obvious to an expert with an emulator?

Another thing regarding saving: there really isn't anything TO save, not much anyway. You can go to any level in the game just by entering its name so if you waned to continue your progress on your GT/Express you'd only have to write down a single word. Being able to save mid level would be nice, but that would generate a pretty huge save file. It isn't even supported by a system that does save (ie: Duo, Backup Booster). Do the SNES, GB, etc versions have mid level save?

Something else I figured out with this game is that if you hammer on the select button a bunch of times after a reset you'll get a memory manager. Do any other games do this?

Anyway, this is a great game, very relaxing, every PCE and TG16 fan should have it.

Tatsujin · 04/10/2013, 08:20 PM

according wiki:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:U--Xl7vKc38J:ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/HuCARD+%EF%BD%90%EF%BD%83%E3%82%A8%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B8%E3%83%B3%E3%80%80ROMRAM%E3%80%80%E3%83%9D%E3%83%94%E3%83%A5%E3%83%A9%E3%82%B9&cd=5&hl=ja&ct=clnk

Quote『ポピュラス』もRAM搭載で、PCエンジン本体内ワークRAMのみでの処理が無理だったためとされる。

-> The game populous used additional RAM since the internal RAM of the PCE could not handle the game by it self.

As for your question about the SCD populous, so there was plenty more of RAM available from the super sys 3.0 it could use.

Digi.k · 04/10/2013, 08:29 PM

really great port with unique intro. I think it's one of those PCE huey games that spent time with the sound samples. I was going to get a spare card and melt the molded bits to see what kind of chips lie within

SignOfZeta · 04/10/2013, 08:39 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/10/2013, 08:20 PMaccording wiki:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:U--Xl7vKc38J:ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/HuCARD+%EF%BD%90%EF%BD%83%E3%82%A8%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B8%E3%83%B3%E3%80%80ROMRAM%E3%80%80%E3%83%9D%E3%83%94%E3%83%A5%E3%83%A9%E3%82%B9&cd=5&hl=ja&ct=clnk

Quote『ポピュラス』もRAM搭載で、PCエンジン本体内ワークRAMのみでの処理が無理だったためとされる。
-> The game populous used additional RAM since the internal RAM of the PCE could not handle the game by it self.

As for your question about the SCD populous, so there was plenty more of RAM available from the super sys 3.0 it could use.

Excellent!

CrackTiger · 04/10/2013, 08:56 PM

I forget the specifics, but I believe that using a little extra ram to handle things was cheaper than the memory it would take to do something(s) another way (pre-calculated code or animation?).

The CD version is actually the same kind of package as Neo Nectaris. "The Promised Lands" is a series of unique and wacky themed worlds. The regular HuCard game can be played separately off the disc.

Don't both versions support the PCE mouse?

Tatsujin · 04/10/2013, 09:07 PM

i hope they do, but they do not show the mouse-mark on the covers.

btw. in which version is that complete deticated bomberman populous world? which makes the pce verion superior over any other versions.

i never spent much time on this title, nor did I back in my amiga times. but to play that bomberman world would be rad. there are also not much pics of that world/stage or even a longplay available.

SignOfZeta · 04/10/2013, 09:27 PM

There is no mention of the PCE mouse in the manual. I'm pretty sure it came out several years later since it has the industrial design of the Duo R. When Populous was released (and the SCD ver months later) the original Duo wasn't even out yet. I kind of get the impression they pretty much made the mouse for Tomimeki Memorial but I don't know the date exactly.

It sure would be nice to have a mouse. Not every PC game needs a mouse to be playable (I'm actually better at Sim City 2000 on Saturn with a pad than I am with a mouse) but this one could use it.

One thing that took me a while to realize, and this helps a lot, is that you can get the pointer up on the book for fast scrolling. This should have been done with the II button, but whatever, it was 1989. If you use select to flip back and forth between the map and the action buttons on the right you'll never see your pointer go to the book if you actually click on any action buttons or move around them. Just keep hitting select and nothing else and eventually it will cycle up there.

Tatsujin · 04/10/2013, 09:38 PM

According this evermore helpful page, lemmings was the first game that came out supporting the PCE mouse in 1992. in fact lemmings was released only one day after the mouse came out of its house.

http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~tetuya/FXHP/pcengine/hard/pcmouse.html

Quoteマウス対応第１弾ソフトはマウス発売日の翌日に発売されたパズルアクション「レミングス」（'９２）だった。

Tokimeki memorial was released in 1994.

TheClash603 · 04/10/2013, 10:13 PM

Played the hell out of this game on SNES back when it came out. I never tried the PCE version because I assumed there would be a language barrier. Now that I know there isn't, this has been added to my want list.

turboswimbz · 04/10/2013, 10:22 PM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 04/10/2013, 10:13 PMPlayed the hell out of this game on SNES back when it came out. I never tried the PCE version because I assumed there would be a language barrier. Now that I know there isn't, this has been added to my want list.

I have one for the trades.

BigusSchmuck · 04/10/2013, 10:37 PM

I could have told you guys that it was in english! I own both the hucard version and the scd version, I honestly can say that they are indeed 100% in english except maybe the spoken parts in the promised lands. There really should be a thread where we have officially relased pce games that are 80-100% english.

Bardoly · 04/10/2013, 10:47 PM

Quote from: BigusSchmuck on 04/10/2013, 10:37 PMThere really should be a thread where we have officially relased pce games that are 80-100% english.

I second this motion, and I nominate BigusShmuck to start this thread and keep it in good order.

CrackTiger · 04/10/2013, 11:32 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/10/2013, 09:07 PMi hope they do, but they do not show the mouse-mark on the covers.

btw. in which version is that complete deticated bomberman populous world? which makes the pce verion superior over any other versions.

i never spent much time on this title, nor did I back in my amiga times. but to play that bomberman world would be rad. there are also not much pics of that world/stage or even a longplay available.

The CD version lets you load the HuCard version or play "The Promised Lands", which is a series of themed worlds (including the Bomberman one) that I'm guessing don't appear in any other version. There are pics of each in the manual.

I loved the Genesis version bitd. The HuCard version looks very similar and has cool unique (for PCE) sounding chip tunes.

Tatsujin · 04/10/2013, 11:50 PM

so these "Promised Lands" are contained on the huey and SCD version of populous? must give it a try one day then

VestCunt · 04/11/2013, 12:00 AM

Yeah, PCE Populous is great. No mouse support.

Here's my old list of mouse compatible games: https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=764.msg4586#msg4586
Lemmings and Brandish are the only ones I'd care to try.

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/10/2013, 11:50 PMso these "Promised Lands" are contained on the huey and SCD version of populous? must give it a try one day then

No, just the CD.

Tatsujin · 04/11/2013, 12:42 AM

Quote from: guest on 04/11/2013, 12:00 AMYeah, PCE Populous is great. No mouse support.

Here's my old list of mouse compatible games: https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=764.msg4586#msg4586
Lemmings and Brandish are the only ones I'd care to try.

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/10/2013, 11:50 PMso these "Promised Lands" are contained on the huey and SCD version of populous? must give it a try one day then
No, just the CD.

thx^^

lemmings is a sheer must to play with a mouse.

and that frenchy builder land game should have had mouse support as well. it's a real pain in the already big pain in the ass, to play that with a pad.

Keith Courage · 04/11/2013, 04:40 AM

I used to play this game all the time when I was younger on a friends Radio Shack Tandy Color computer. I can say that from what little I have played on the PCE it seems to be exactly the same.

Tatsujin · 04/11/2013, 05:34 AM

They are all about exactly the same, neglect some minor differences in graphics & sound due to each platform's limitations at that time.

CrackTiger · 04/11/2013, 08:06 AM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/11/2013, 05:34 AMThey are all about exactly the same, neglect some minor differences in graphics & sound due to each platform's limitations at that time.

Even the SMS version looks the same, except for the smaller playfield.

BigusSchmuck · 04/11/2013, 12:17 PM

Quote from: Keith Courage on 04/11/2013, 04:40 AMI used to play this game all the time when I was younger on a friends Radio Shack Tandy Color computer. I can say that from what little I have played on the PCE it seems to be exactly the same.

The promised lands portion has got one really crazy soundtrack. Its got all sorts of new worlds with their different themes too.

CrackTiger · 04/11/2013, 02:06 PM

I noticed that the HuCard version sounds similar to the Amiga and SNES versions, while the Genesis version uses regular FM sound. Maybe the extra ram was to help the PCE version run a mod player. I can't check any time soon, but perhaps the HuCard content with the CD version uses rebook or adpcm for the music.

VestCunt · 04/11/2013, 02:35 PM

OT: Populous II SFC apparently has mouse support. Is it any good? Is reading Japanese required?

CrackTiger · 04/11/2013, 07:04 PM

I had a chance to run Populous The Promised Lands in ME and sure enough, although the regular Populous mode appears to just be the HuCard game, the music has been replaced with redbook audio.

Tatsujin · 04/11/2013, 08:01 PM

Quote from: guest on 04/11/2013, 02:06 PMI noticed that the HuCard version sounds similar to the Amiga and SNES versions, while the Genesis version uses regular FM sound. Maybe the extra ram was to help the PCE version run a mod player. I can't check any time soon, but perhaps the HuCard content with the CD version uses rebook or adpcm for the music.

BUT, who in hell or heaven would come on that absurd idea to add extra RAM to a Huey, only to be able to play some different music? As anybody would have cared back then anyway, lol.

soop · 04/12/2013, 07:41 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/10/2013, 06:57 PMSomething else I figured out with this game is that if you hammer on the select button a bunch of times after a reset you'll get a memory manager. Do any other games do this?

I've read that the ROMRAM is used for a save function.

Tatsujin · 04/12/2013, 08:07 AM

Quote from: soop on 04/12/2013, 07:41 AM
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/10/2013, 06:57 PMSomething else I figured out with this game is that if you hammer on the select button a bunch of times after a reset you'll get a memory manager. Do any other games do this?
I've read that the ROMRAM is used for a save function.

no it's not. read on le 1st page.

Keith Courage · 04/12/2013, 02:36 PM

not sure if anyone else has noticed but if you run the first populous from the promise lands CD it looks darker and not nearly as bright as the hu card version.

SignOfZeta · 04/12/2013, 03:48 PM

I haven't played the CD yet. I'll get it when I clear the HuCard (beat two more levels last night).

It seems like with many games that are both HuCARD and CD the CD lacks for some reason. I was wondering what sucked about Promised Lands.

So the CD has the original game in it as well, that's cool, but are the colors darker there too?

BigusSchmuck · 04/12/2013, 04:38 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/12/2013, 03:48 PMI haven't played the CD yet. I'll get it when I clear the HuCard (beat two more levels last night).

It seems like with many games that are both HuCARD and CD the CD lacks for some reason. I was wondering what sucked about Promised Lands.

So the CD has the original game in it as well, that's cool, but are the colors darker there too?

I honestly couldn't tell the difference. All I know is that I got both games for under $5 last year. Well worth it too.

esteban · 04/12/2013, 06:47 PM

If you listen to the ripped Red Book, you'll hear that the cinema scenes are in English. Pretty hilarious (not really) story, too.

GOD'S CHILDREN!

https://archives.tg-16.com/music_database.htm?col=jp&val=populous

I don't have the HuCARD version of Populous anymore (gave it away), but now I wish I had it to compare to the CD (Promised Lands).

Quote from: soop on 04/12/2013, 07:41 AM
Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/10/2013, 06:57 PMSomething else I figured out with this game is that if you hammer on the select button a bunch of times after a reset you'll get a memory manager. Do any other games do this?
I've read that the ROMRAM is used for a save function.

I have to correct a lot of errors and mistakes I made writing about Populous/ROMRAM/Ten No Koe Bank many years ago. I thought I fixed the mistakes years ago (I think I did), but at some point, I must have uploaded an old version of the page. Pretty frustrating. I hope I didn't lose revisions I made to other pages by being stooopid. Oh well.

Keith Courage · 04/12/2013, 09:27 PM

The original game on the promise lands CD is what looks darker. Promise lands itself looks great.

TheClash603 · 05/06/2013, 12:58 AM

Just ordered this game, excited to compare it to the SNES game I loved BITD.

I am taking your "nothing is in Japanese" word. I am the guy who gave up on Son Son II because it had too much Japanese in it.

SignOfZeta · 05/06/2013, 01:50 AM

It truly does have literally zero Japanese in it.

NecroPhile · 05/06/2013, 03:46 PM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 05/06/2013, 12:58 AMI am the guy who gave up on Son Son II because it had too much Japanese in it.

If ya have a flashcart, try the translated rom.