How much difference does the Arcade Card really make with a Duo-R?

[shawnji]

I'm debating grabbing one if I can get it cheap, but if I won't experience much of a difference I may just go without.  I have 3x3 Eyes and some other games that claim better performance with the card.

[NecroPhile]

The main difference is that you won't be able to play the Arcade Card games without one.  3x3 Eyes is one of the few Arcade Card 'enhanced' games that you'll actually see a difference (more animation in some cut scenes); most enhanced games only use it to cut down on loading, using it to cache stuff like battle menus, towns, etc. that it'd otherwise have to load from cd every time it was needed.

[bob]

i never knew some games were "enhanced" by it

[shawnji]

The main difference is that you won't be able to play the Arcade Card games without one.  3x3 Eyes is one of the few Arcade Card 'enhanced' games that you'll actually see a difference (more animation in some cut scenes); most enhanced games only use it to cut down on loading, using it to cache stuff like battle menus, towns, etc. that it'd otherwise have to load from cd every time it was needed.

That's kind of what I figured, as it is a RAM expansion after all.  Gulliver Boy also has a section referring to it in the back of the manual where it claims to speed things up a bit.  I guess I was just wondering how pronounced the difference was.

[seieienbu]

Flash Hiders says it uses it in the back of the manual even though it doesn't have the Arcade Card icon on the front.  Someone stated that there were a few sound effects that wouldn't be heard otherwise.

[esteban]

I'm debating grabbing one if I can get it cheap, but if I won't experience much of a difference I may just go without.  I have 3x3 Eyes and some other games that claim better performance with the card.

What everyone said is correct.

If the videos are still available, you can see what CrackTiger documented:

https://archives.tg-16.com/Dengeki_PC_Engine_1994_08.htm

If there are any corrections/additions you can make to that page, please tell me.

[shawnji]

I'm debating grabbing one if I can get it cheap, but if I won't experience much of a difference I may just go without.  I have 3x3 Eyes and some other games that claim better performance with the card.

What everyone said is correct.

If the videos are still available, you can see what CrackTiger documented:

https://archives.tg-16.com/Dengeki_PC_Engine_1994_08.htm

If there are any corrections/additions you can make to that page, please tell me.

Thanks for linking that!  Wow, that is a huge difference.  I'm absolutely sold on the Arcade Card now.  I know it's just a visual novel, but now that I've seen it, I don't think I could stand to play a watered-down version.  Is there a list somewhere documenting games that have these extensive changes?

[geise]

Flash Hiders says it uses it in the back of the manual even though it doesn't have the Arcade Card icon on the front.  Someone stated that there were a few sound effects that wouldn't be heard otherwise.

LOL.  I've had that game for more than 22 years and I never knew that.  *Goes to test...*

[BigusSchmuck]

I'm debating grabbing one if I can get it cheap, but if I won't experience much of a difference I may just go without.  I have 3x3 Eyes and some other games that claim better performance with the card.

What everyone said is correct.

If the videos are still available, you can see what CrackTiger documented:

https://archives.tg-16.com/Dengeki_PC_Engine_1994_08.htm

If there are any corrections/additions you can make to that page, please tell me.

Thanks for linking that!  Wow, that is a huge difference.  I'm absolutely sold on the Arcade Card now.  I know it's just a visual novel, but now that I've seen it, I don't think I could stand to play a watered-down version.  Is there a list somewhere documenting games that have these extensive changes?

No but there should be. I know Popful Mail is a hybrid, not sure what it really adds (less loading times). I also have found games like the Wizardry games seem to load much quicker while playing them even though those aren't listed as hybrid games. You can definitely use the pc engine bible to sort through the arcade card games and the comments on them. http://www.pcengine.co.uk/ or here works as well: http://pcecp.com/?mode=home

[SuperDeadite]

Arcade card is required to play Sapphire, hence it is a must own item.

[SamIAm]

True story: When playing Gulliver Boy, I used the Arcade Card for whatever benefits it was supposed to bring. Then, one day, I played a hucard game and forgot to put the AC back in. Later, I played about an hour of Gulliver Boy, unknowingly without the AC.

I was totally unaware of the difference.

[esteban]

True story: When playing Gulliver Boy, I used the Arcade Card for whatever benefits it was supposed to bring. Then, one day, I played a hucard game and forgot to put the AC back in. Later, I played about an hour of Gulliver Boy, unknowingly without the AC.

I was totally unaware of the difference.

During the cinemas, there might have been more frequent pauses as next sequence loaded. Otherwise, probably not much difference.

[Dicer]

Arcade card is required to play Sapphire, hence it is a must own item.

Over rated...IMHO of course, sadly we didn't get another ACD shooter to blow it out of the water.

[RyuHayabusa]

True story: When playing Gulliver Boy, I used the Arcade Card for whatever benefits it was supposed to bring. Then, one day, I played a hucard game and forgot to put the AC back in. Later, I played about an hour of Gulliver Boy, unknowingly without the AC.

I was totally unaware of the difference.

Um, how did you play Gulliver Boy without putting the Super System card in?

[SamIAm]

Um, how did you play Gulliver Boy without putting the Super System card in?

Super System Card is built into Duos.

[SuperDeadite]

Arcade card is required to play Sapphire, hence it is a must own item.

Over rated...IMHO of course, sadly we didn't get another ACD shooter to blow it out of the water.

Sapphire may not be the greatest shooter ever.  But I find it to be a total celebration of the PCE.  The colors, the style, the music.  It's all just comes togeather so well and screams ''THIS IS PCE, IN YOUR FACE BITCHES!!''.

Most systems tend to have slow drawn out deaths, the last few years having nothing but awful cheaply made shovelware.  Street Fighter 2 Alpha on SNES?  ROLF.

Now the PCE however, went out on SAPPHIRE.  It didn't sit around on life support, it held a massive fireworks show and went out in full glory from the people that gave it birth.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Sapphire isn't overrated.

Have you heard the soundtrack?

My penis just exploded while THINKING about the soundtrack.

[tknjin]

there is also the rpg by the name of Linda^3(cube).  That game is definitely enhanced by the arcade and is quite beautiful and a great rpg as well for the pc engine.

[shawnji]

there is also the rpg by the name of Linda^3(cube).  That game is definitely enhanced by the arcade and is quite beautiful and a great rpg as well for the pc engine. 

Is that the same one that's on PS1?

[Arkhan Asylum]

Yep.  But you should play it on PCE because don't be a fucking traitor.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Also:

SAY SAPPHIRE IS OVERRATED AGAIN.  DO IT.

[RyuHayabusa]

Um, how did you play Gulliver Boy without putting the Super System card in?

Super System Card is built into Duos.

Oops, sorry. So used to playing on my PCE briefcase that it slipped my mind about the Duo have the SSC 3.0 built in.

[VenomMacbeth]

Maybe not underrated, but definitely overpriced.

[SuperDeadite]

Maybe not underrated, but definitely overpriced.

Price should never be used to judge a game's quality though.  I spent about $250 on my original cibbler copy.  Sure that is a lot of money for one game.  But considering that new Xbone/PC4 console games cost about $60 a pop and are far less interesting in the long term, meh the money is no issue imo.

[Dicer]

Also:

SAY SAPPHIRE IS OVERRATED AGAIN.  DO IT.

OVER RATED!!!

I guess I'll add the reason I'm not keen on Sapphire as much is because of the polygons, I know it was the "thing" at the time, but they just feel like they are there because everyone else was doing it, I'll take more parallax and more sprites and everything else over some flat shaded uglygons.

IMHO there should have been one more 2D era, but we got stuck with the framey/warpy/foggy/shit freamrate era we call 32bit, blah....

[VenomMacbeth]

Maybe not underrated, but definitely overpriced.

Price should never be used to judge a game's quality though.  I spent about $250 on my original cibbler copy.  Sure that is a lot of money for one game.  But considering that new Xbone/PC4 console games cost about $60 a pop and are far less interesting in the long term, meh the money is no issue imo.

I agree, but no one game is worth over like $150 IMHO.  I could buy a Duo, arcade card & several decent games for the price I'd pay for just Sapphire.  But of course, money's only an issue for me because I don't have it falling out of my butt. -.-

[princemoonrise]

Flash Hiders says it uses it in the back of the manual even though it doesn't have the Arcade Card icon on the front.  Someone stated that there were a few sound effects that wouldn't be heard otherwise.

Flash Hiders, I didn't notice any difference in sound effects (back in the day) but I do know it loads all the character graphics initially if you use the Arcade Card, and thus will have no load times between matches which is really nice!

Also, I've noticed that memory in the Arcade Card (Pro, at least) will retain the data held in it for some games even through a system reset.  For instance Mad Stalker and its crazy long initial load, will go super fast if you just did a soft reset.  Speaking of which, Mad Stalker is pretty good and underrated.

By the way this is the most awesome and true statement I agree with all year so far:

Sapphire may not be the greatest shooter ever.  But I find it to be a total celebration of the PCE.  The colors, the style, the music.  It's all just comes togeather so well and screams ''THIS IS PCE, IN YOUR FACE BITCHES!!''.

Most systems tend to have slow drawn out deaths, the last few years having nothing but awful cheaply made shovelware.  Street Fighter 2 Alpha on SNES?  ROLF.

Now the PCE however, went out on SAPPHIRE.  It didn't sit around on life support, it held a massive fireworks show and went out in full glory from the people that gave it birth.

If I were a console and had to die,  Sapphire is how I would die...!  Though to be historically accurate it kind of went out with Dead of the Brain, which I haven't got around to playing yet.  Has it been language patched yet I wonder..?

[NecroPhile]

Though to be historically accurate it kind of went out with Dead of the Brain, which I haven't got around to playing yet.

Technically there's about a dozen games that came after Sapphire, but the basic premise holds.  Of those that came out around Sapphire or later, they're generally very good and quite polished, like Madou Monogatari, Bazaru, and Seiya Monogatari.

Has it been language patched yet I wonder..?

There's been a project in the works for years, to translate it into French and later English.  It's not complete, though, and I've not heard any news on progress for some time.

[Tatsujin]

no AC = no one of the most impressive 8-bit shewties that even put any 16-bit shewties to shame.

[Tatsujin]

Also:

SAY SAPPHIRE IS OVERRATED AGAIN.  DO IT.

OVER RATED!!!

I guess I'll add the reason I'm not keen on Sapphire as much is because of the polygons, I know it was the "thing" at the time, but they just feel like they are there because everyone else was doing it, I'll take more parallax and more sprites and everything else over some flat shaded uglygons.

IMHO there should have been one more 2D era, but we got stuck with the framey/warpy/foggy/shit freamrate era we call 32bit, blah....

sapphire doesn't use no polygons. it's all very well animated 2D sprites.

[NecroPhile]

sapphire doesn't use no polygons. it's all very well animated 2D sprites.

Pre-rendered polygons are still polygons, you crazy bazzy.

[princemoonrise]

Would love to see Dead of the Brain I-II translated SOMEDAY...  I wonder why stuff goes to french first?  (supposedly thats whats happening with Phantasy Star: Generation 2 for PS2).

I fired up Sapphire again yesterday and I'll have to say... the end result is spectacular no matter how they got there, and it IS using technology they had at-hand to do things that other systems of the time wouldn't have been able to do, in this case, the large amounts of RAM, CD storage capacity, the strong color palette, and having the Mhz to get it all done fast and fluid to display those awesome prerendered sprites, morphing, and multi-mode boss transformations.  There's a reason why the Genesis/Sega CD or the Super Famicom don't have anything like it.

[SignOfZeta]

But the game was released in 1995, after the Playstation and Saturn, two systems "of the time" that could easily do Sapphire.

If you mean "of the time" as in other 16-bit era machines...well, have you seen Pulstar on Neo Geo? If the prerendered stuff in Sapphire makes you go nuts, seeing Pulstar would probably kill you. Not only does it do everything Sapphire does, it does it with a collection of sprites and background graphics that actually look like they belong in the same game together.

I love Sapphire, but it is what it is. It's not the best shooter ever made, it's not even close to the best shooter on PCE even. What it is, basically, is the single most impressive piece of software that has ever run on one of the coolest game systems that has ever been made. That should be enough for a sane person. Making more than that out of it is just otaku bullshit.

[SignOfZeta]

Btw, I also take issue with the notion that software made late in a systems life is usually bad. Evidently people who feel that way don't think much of Panzer Dragoon Azel, KOF 2003, Yoshi's Island, Mighty Final Fight, Judgement Silversword, Ikaruga, Dragon Quest VI, Mother 2, Mother 3, etc etc. I'd say it's actually the norm, at least from 1st parties. These fireball late releases are the reason I barely ever buy machines when they first come out; you basically end up waiting five years for the good shit!

[princemoonrise]

I did mean, more "of its generation", as that it is software for a piece of hardware designed and released in *1987*, it is absolutely insane. Back then I was buying arcade boards and had all the current hardware of 1995 but the fact that there were more technically impressive things out there did not diminish how special, impressive or magical Sapphire was, or still is, on the PCE for me.  Whether or not its "good" is a matter of taste.  Sapphire is not my absolute favorite but its definitely in my top 10 shooters on that system.

I got Pulstar as soon as it was released (on Neo CD), and yeah, its the Sapphire for that platform, freaking hard too but I do recall beating it staying up all night with a friend back in the day.