JJ & Jeff

Warbucks · 05/26/2015, 05:27 PM

So after so many saying don't buy JJ and Jeff, I decided to buy it.

and...

I actually enjoy running around kicking stuff.

I don't get where the poop comes from when I kick a brick but it is an alright game.

I thought it would of been total crap the way some people were talking about it.

What are your thoughts on the game?

sirhcman · 05/26/2015, 05:31 PM

Quote from: Warbucks on 05/26/2015, 05:27 PMWhat are your thoughts on the game?

One of the best platformers on the TurboGrafx-16. Great art, funny humor, and a decent challenge to beat!

Warbucks · 05/26/2015, 05:54 PM

I agree I was like what the hell is that noise.. then I realized it was my health.

sirhcman · 05/26/2015, 06:17 PM

Quote from: guest on 05/26/2015, 05:41 PMI've gotta admit that even when JJ & Jeff had its turn as Game of the Week, I didn't give it a fair shot.

Why?

The sound effect.

Not the sound effects, just one sound effect in particular: the low-health ear-splitting chirp of doom.

There is a simple solution to this - Play better!

PukeSter · 05/26/2015, 06:30 PM

Never managed to beat it. World 4 was it for me.

I like the music at least, and it's a good Wonder Boy clone.

Sadler · 05/26/2015, 06:49 PM

Warning: I'm cranky.

This game was pretty hyped to me by one of the few other guys I knew who had a TG16 growing up. I was pretty disappointed when I got it. The humor didn't do anything for me, the main characters weren't likable, and the graphics were incredibly bland. I think the part the bugged me the most though was the "kick random background tile to reveal path forward" aspect. I just didn't find it appealing. I vaguely recall there being parts that would punish you by warping you back some amount, but I might be remembering some other game.

I never beat it, I suppose I should play it again and see if I've warmed up to it at all.

DragonmasterDan · 05/26/2015, 06:52 PM

I love this game. It's very much in the vein of the Adventure Island series. Heck, I even like it more than "New Adventure Island". The music is fantastic, the game controls great. Finding keys or knowing exactly where to go can be quite aggravating but I've managed to beat it both as a child and an adult.

esteban · 05/26/2015, 07:27 PM

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 05/26/2015, 06:52 PMI love this game. It's very much in the vein of the Adventure Island series. Heck, I even like it more than "New Adventure Island". The music is fantastic, the game controls great. Finding keys or knowing exactly where to go can be quite aggravating but I've managed to beat it both as a child and an adult.

Hell yes.

anyone who likes WB1/Adventure Island series should try it.

Quote from: Sadler on 05/26/2015, 06:49 PMWarning: I'm cranky.

This game was pretty hyped to me by one of the few other guys I knew who had a TG16 growing up. I was pretty disappointed when I got it. The humor didn't do anything for me, the main characters weren't likable, and the graphics were incredibly bland. I think the part the bugged me the most though was the "kick random background tile to reveal path forward" aspect. I just didn't find it appealing. I vaguely recall there being parts that would punish you by warping you back some amount, but I might be remembering some other game.

I never beat it, I suppose I should play it again and see if I've warmed up to it at all.

If you don't like the original Wonderboy 1/Adventure Island games, then you won't like JJ & Jeff. In those games, you had to hunt for hidden egg powerups.

JJ & Jeff is actually harder (more challenging) than WB1/Adventure Island because in addition to very cruel platforming (later levels), you have to find the best way to progress (either by warping to later levels or playing straight through, you have to remember where warps/keys are).

Quote from: Warbucks on 05/26/2015, 05:27 PMSo after so many saying don't buy JJ and Jeff, I decided to buy it.

and...

I actually enjoy running around kicking stuff.

I don't get where the poop comes from when I kick a brick but it is an alright game.

I thought it would of been total crap the way some people were talking about it.

What are your thoughts on the game?

Mzo · 05/27/2015, 03:21 AM

Took a chance on buying this game from a Goodwill on Amazon for $7 three years ago. The description said new, but I didn't really believe it.

It was new.

I broke that seal and played it. It's not that good! Gotta put in more time and power through to the end since I love Hudson Soft and it's obviously Wonder Boy inspired.

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 05/26/2015, 06:52 PMHeck, I even like it more than "New Adventure Island."

Holy shit, this is crazy to me.

NecroPhile · 05/27/2015, 10:47 AM

Quote from: Sadler on 05/26/2015, 06:49 PMI vaguely recall there being parts that would punish you by warping you back some amount, but I might be remembering some other game.

Nope, JJ & Jeff will do that to you. It's the worst part of the game and feels very cheap.

majors · 05/27/2015, 12:19 PM

I would not say JJ/Kato is a great game, but it plays decent for a jokey platformer. It does have a lot of WTF moments and it is obey exclusive. Well worth 5-10 bucks. It's a keeper for me.

esteban · 05/27/2015, 05:49 PM

Quote from: guest on 05/27/2015, 10:47 AM
Quote from: Sadler on 05/26/2015, 06:49 PMI vaguely recall there being parts that would punish you by warping you back some amount, but I might be remembering some other game.
Nope, JJ & Jeff will do that to you. It's the worst part of the game and feels very cheap.

I used the word "cruel" because it captures the pain of accidentally discovering a "warp back" spring jump (usually found when you are recklessly running and blindly fall/jump into oblivion).

However, I must add that part of the strategy of this game and learning how to use the warps to navigate...there are times when you WANT TO JUMP BACK a few stages because you need something (a key) or you know a better way to proceed (a different warp/stage progression).

I actually love this devious layer of "warp zone" exploration and strategizing...because you can always avoid it if you play the game straight through (well, sometimes you need to go back to get a key).

Anyway, it adds a fantastic extra layer of complexity on a seemingly simple platformer and on the seemingly simplistic notion of "warp zones"...this game is a platformer at heart, but with more!

A Black Falcon · 05/28/2015, 02:23 AM

I know a lot of people hate this game, but bah, it's good. It looks even better when you consider that this is a launch title for the PC Engine that released in 1987. For '87 it's a pretty good looking game, visually! The graphics are a lot better than, say, the other Hudson sidescroller on the system that year, Bikkuriman World. Really, my only "complaint" about the graphics is that Hudson didn't improve their TG16 platformer graphics all that much over the remainder of the generation... ah well. But that's not an issue with JJ & Jeff, certainly.

Otherwise, my main complaint would be that the game is a bit too hard; it really should have had saving, or at minimum infinite continues without needing to use a somewhat tricky continue code that you can mess up. And if you mess it up, it's back to the beginning of the game with you! Backwards warps are also a bit overly cruel, and of course those stupid hidden keys you must have in order to finish the game are awful. I haven't gotten near the end of the game yet, even though I do like it...

Gameplay-wise, it's like Adventure Island, but with, on the bad side, backward warp and those stupid hidden keys, and on the good side, an actual lifebar and more graphcial and music variety. Yeah, I know that a few things don't kill you instantly in Adventure Island and only drain your food bar, but most kill you in one hit. This time your life bare is an actual lifebar, and it's a big improvement. The vastly improved graphical and music variety over WB/AI is great too -- the extreme repetition is one of the issues I have with that game. It's tough for me to compare this game to that one, though; Wonder Boy is a classic that I've never liked very much (the Monster World and Monster Lair games are fantastic, but not the first game.), while JJ & Jeff is a mostly disliked game that I find average, but fun. Which is the better game? I'm not sure.

(Oh, and I don't care for the potty humor, that's never really been something I like. But it's a decent platformer even so.)

CrackTiger · 05/28/2015, 03:55 PM

Dracula X also rewards you for randomly jumping off cliffs and into pits. Both games encourage you to do so once you discover that it's actually a thing and from then onward, you lose a lot of lives experimenting. At least it's easy to stock up on lives/continues(?) in JJ & Jeff.

The whole hitting random spots in the background to discover things aspect is also a signature feature of Wonderboy, Capcom, Castlevania and SMB games.

Some people just love to hate on games like this for the sake of it.

esteban · 05/28/2015, 04:08 PM

Quote from: guest on 05/28/2015, 03:55 PMDracula X also rewards you for randomly jumping off cliffs and into pits. Both games encourage you to do so once you discover that it's actually a thing and from then onward, you lose a lot of lives experimenting. At least it's easy to stock up on lives/continues(?) in JJ & Jeff.

The whole hitting random spots in the background to discover things aspect is also a signature feature of Wonderboy, Capcom, Castlevania and SMB games.

Some people just love to hate on games like this for the sake of it.

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

DragonmasterDan · 05/28/2015, 05:23 PM

Quote from: guest on 05/28/2015, 03:55 PMDracula X also rewards you for randomly jumping off cliffs and into pits. Both games encourage you to do so once you discover that it's actually a thing and from then onward, you lose a lot of lives experimenting. At least it's easy to stock up on lives/continues(?) in JJ & Jeff.

The whole hitting random spots in the background to discover things aspect is also a signature feature of Wonderboy, Capcom, Castlevania and SMB games.

Some people just love to hate on games like this for the sake of it.

Agreed.

Games of yesterday don't spell out for you exactly what to do, and game secrets are secrets for a reason. Trial and error, tales shared among friends on the playground, game magazines and possibly hint books were the way to get through these games back in the day.

Sadler · 05/28/2015, 05:53 PM

Two things:

1) I don't hate this game. It's ok. It's not a good game, it's not a bad game. It's just ok.

2) Finding secrets and power ups by jumping in the right spot or attacking the right wall or whatever is awesome. Requiring the player to do so in order to actually progress in the game, requires more skill on the designers' part to pull off well. There's a whole spectrum here. Games like Super Metroid do this much better than JJ & Jeff.

esteban · 05/28/2015, 06:05 PM

Quote from: Sadler on 05/28/2015, 05:53 PMTwo things:

1) I don't hate this game. It's ok. It's not a good game, it's not a bad game. It's just ok.

2) Finding secrets and power ups by jumping in the right spot or attacking the right wall or whatever is awesome. Requiring the player to do so in order to actually progress in the game, requires more skill on the designers' part to pull off well. There's a whole spectrum here. Games like Super Metroid do this much better than JJ & Jeff.

I agree about Super Metroid being, essentially, AWESOME.

HOWEVER, don't forget that...

Gredler · 05/28/2015, 09:31 PM

Quote from: esteban on 05/28/2015, 06:05 PM

For some reason, this came to mind

Psycho Punch · 05/28/2015, 09:50 PM

I just think that the frustrating warp backs are just what Hudson thought it would be 'funny', as in "HAHAHA back to level one because you falled in this specific spot" funny. Other than that and the slippery character you can choose this game is very underrated. My favorite part about the game is the music! I don't know the name of the tracks but my favorites are the one playing in the sewer levels at the beggining and the sky level (2-3).

esteban · 05/29/2015, 01:18 AM

Quote from: guest on 05/28/2015, 09:50 PMI just think that the frustrating warp backs are just what Hudson thought it would be 'funny', as in "HAHAHA back to level one because you falled in this specific spot" funny. Other than that and the slippery character you can choose this game is very underrated. My favorite part about the game is the music! I don't know the name of the tracks but my favorites are the one playing in the sewer levels at the beggining and the sky level (2-3).

I know the songs you are referring to

There are videos on YouTube where the original composer (+ friends) play a bunch of Kato Chan & Ken Chan songs! You might enjoy the craziness.

Quote from: Gredler on 05/28/2015, 09:31 PMFor some reason, this came to mind

Hahahhahahajja.

Galder · 05/30/2015, 07:54 PM

I have never tried it but that was because these two guys look completely DISGUSTING!

esteban · 05/30/2015, 08:42 PM

Quote from: Galder on 05/30/2015, 07:54 PMI have never tried it but that was because these two guys look completely DISGUSTING!

JJ & Jeff are pinnacle of 1980's archetypes.

Therefore, they are not disgusting, but cliched and hackneyed.

Now, you have permission to love them!

CrackTiger · 05/30/2015, 09:34 PM

Quote from: Galder on 05/30/2015, 07:54 PMI have never tried it but that was because these two guys look completely DISGUSTING!

Are you sure you aren't confusing it with KC & KC?

Galder · 05/31/2015, 11:11 AM

Quote from: guest on 05/30/2015, 09:34 PM
Quote from: Galder on 05/30/2015, 07:54 PMI have never tried it but that was because these two guys look completely DISGUSTING!
Are you sure you aren't confusing it with KC & KC?

That's even worse-looking. Bosses' sprites look horrible too. I guess it is simply not my cup of tea. I may give it a shot in the near future though while I am exploring the turbografx world more. At least I like the fact that it has in-game secrets to find.

Otaking · 06/01/2015, 08:52 AM

I adore the game, but I've never played much JJ & Jeff as I've always prefered the uncensored Kato & Ken.
Back in the late eighties Kato & Ken was the first PC Engine game ever I heard about, I have so much nostalgia for it.

The fart duel!!!
https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=12397.msg240534#msg240534

esteban · 06/01/2015, 07:17 PM

I am still suffering seizures from those Ken Chan Ramen commercials.

Otaking · 06/02/2015, 09:36 AM

lol

mitsuman · 06/02/2015, 10:01 AM

After reading through all of this, I guess JJ & Jeff (or Kato & Ken) will be the next game for me to get.

Keith Courage · 06/07/2015, 02:49 AM

Love me some JJ and Jeff.

esteban · 06/07/2015, 06:38 AM

Quote from: Keith Courage on 06/07/2015, 02:49 AMLove me some JJ and Jeff.

tknjin · 06/07/2015, 06:58 AM

Quote from: esteban on 06/07/2015, 06:38 AM
Quote from: Keith Courage on 06/07/2015, 02:49 AMLove me some JJ and Jeff.

I never knew you doodle'd or did any sort of YT videos esteban. Good stuff man, now I'll have to sub ya for sure

esteban · 06/07/2015, 08:21 AM

Quote from: tknjin on 06/07/2015, 06:58 AM
Quote from: esteban on 06/07/2015, 06:38 AM
Quote from: Keith Courage on 06/07/2015, 02:49 AMLove me some JJ and Jeff.
I never knew you doodle'd or did any sort of YT videos esteban. Good stuff man, now I'll have to sub ya for sure

Well, I wish I could re-edit and fix all the stuff I hate in those videos, but I know I never will.

Some bits are still good, though

This summer I am going to make more.

johnnykonami · 06/07/2015, 04:24 PM

I remember this was one of the titles I would balk at in when I would pass by it in Electronics Boutique. The whole big head aesthetic just wasn't doing it for 12 year old me, I guess. A couple years later, I made some friends who were also into the Turboduo import scene, and they set me straight. We had a couple good laughs playing through it and since then I appreciate JJ&J a little more. I have a loosie of it, which I believe one of them gave to me years ago.

jordan_hillman · 06/07/2015, 05:31 PM

I finally picked myself up a copy of JJ & Jeff, and I am pretty excited to check it out.

It seems like game that, once the player figures out the quirks, warps, etc., is a pretty fun experience

DragonmasterDan · 06/07/2015, 09:39 PM

Quote from: jordan_hillman on 06/07/2015, 05:31 PMI finally picked myself up a copy of JJ & Jeff, and I am pretty excited to check it out.

It seems like game that, once the player figures out the quirks, warps, etc., is a pretty fun experience

Think Adventure Island style gameplay with a goofy characters, envirionments and enemies and without projectile weapons.

esteban · 06/08/2015, 01:02 AM

NOTE: at what point should I warn folks about the skidding? That might annoy some people

Keith Courage · 06/08/2015, 01:43 AM

JJ has less skidding and can jump higher. Jeff can run faster, has more skidding, but cannot jump as high.

or do I have their names backwards? Either way one is better at one thing than the other.

esteban · 06/08/2015, 11:18 AM

Quote from: Keith Courage on 06/08/2015, 01:43 AMJJ has less skidding and can jump higher. Jeff can run faster, has more skidding, but cannot jump as high.

or do I have their names backwards? Either way one is better at one thing than the other.

I can never remember who is JJ vs. Jeff!

You would think I would know this.

But I never remember.

jtucci31 · 06/08/2015, 11:35 AM

Quote from: esteban on 06/08/2015, 11:18 AM
Quote from: Keith Courage on 06/08/2015, 01:43 AMJJ has less skidding and can jump higher. Jeff can run faster, has more skidding, but cannot jump as high.

or do I have their names backwards? Either way one is better at one thing than the other.
I can never remember who is JJ vs. Jeff!

You would think I would know this.

But I never remember.

I always just assume that the faces shown correlate with the name of the game. JJ being on the left and Jeff being on the right. But I could be totally wrong, and Keith not being entirely sure which one had which abilities doesn't help much either!

DragonmasterDan · 06/08/2015, 03:03 PM

Quote from: guest on 06/08/2015, 11:35 AMI always just assume that the faces shown correlate with the name of the game. JJ being on the left and Jeff being on the right. But I could be totally wrong, and Keith not being entirely sure which one had which abilities doesn't help much either!

I believe JJ had the lighter hair and Jeff had the darker red hair.

esteban · 06/08/2015, 04:20 PM

Bottom line: we will never know who dons the sunglasses. Is it JJ? Is it Jeff?

Gredler · 06/10/2015, 02:17 PM

I was able to get a copy of Kato Chan & Ken Chan in a lot of ebay loose hueys, so sorry if this is off topic

I've put it in quite a few times since receiving, and have to say I was surprised by the tight control, excellent music, and animation quality. I was expecting large sprites, but the quality of the animation is great in my openion - and hilarious. I really was not betting on good controls, for whatever reason, but I thought both characters responded quickly and as intended when jumping and kicking, and the two characters different run speeds, stop and start speeds, etc, made a very fun variation between the two. The music was rad, and made for an overall entertaining game that does not deserve any hate it may get.

I had a hard time finding some of the hidden triggers to kick and create platforms, and often found myself retrying a jump one too many times before realizing to search for a hidden platform, but it made for a interesting thoughtful playthrough of a platformer which I always enjoy

I was wondering, in JJ&Jeff, when you duck and release air, does it project out from the opposite direction your facing? In KC&KC I find my self turning around just before crouching to release the air projectile the direction I was running. It seems like it would be a gameplay change if you shot the projectile in the same direction you were facing, so you wouldn't need to turn around before shooting the projectile if you wanted to shoot it in the same direction you were running. Anyways, what a fun and inventive game. Toilet humor platformer, get out of here boogerman you're outclassed by a mile ;)

LostFlunky · 06/10/2015, 02:25 PM

Quote from: esteban on 06/08/2015, 04:20 PMBottom line: we will never know who dons the sunglasses. Is it JJ? Is it Jeff?

JJ is "Kid Dyn-o-mite!"

CrackTiger · 06/10/2015, 02:39 PM

Yeah, in JJ & Jeff you kneel slide and spray paint a cloud forward. It's a big gameplay improvement.

Gredler · 06/10/2015, 02:54 PM

Quote from: guest on 06/10/2015, 02:39 PMYeah, in JJ & Jeff you kneel slide and spray paint a cloud forward. It's a big gameplay improvement.

I would imagine so. It's pretty tricky to pull off the projectile when you need to turn around and shoot it backwards hahaha. Funny though!

esteban · 06/10/2015, 04:26 PM

Quote from: Gredler on 06/10/2015, 02:17 PMI was able to get a copy of Kato Chan & Ken Chan in a lot of ebay loose hueys, so sorry if this is off topic

I've put it in quite a few times since receiving, and have to say I was surprised by the tight control, excellent music, and animation quality. I was expecting large sprites, but the quality of the animation is great in my openion - and hilarious. I really was not betting on good controls, for whatever reason, but I thought both characters responded quickly and as intended when jumping and kicking, and the two characters different run speeds, stop and start speeds, etc, made a very fun variation between the two. The music was rad, and made for an overall entertaining game that does not deserve any hate it may get.

I had a hard time finding some of the hidden triggers to kick and create platforms, and often found myself retrying a jump one too many times before realizing to search for a hidden platform, but it made for a interesting thoughtful playthrough of a platformer which I always enjoy

I was wondering, in JJ&Jeff, when you duck and release air, does it project out from the opposite direction your facing? In KC&KC I find my self turning around just before crouching to release the air projectile the direction I was running. It seems like it would be a gameplay change if you shot the projectile in the same direction you were facing, so you wouldn't need to turn around before shooting the projectile if you wanted to shoot it in the same direction you were running. Anyways, what a fun and inventive game. Toilet humor platformer, get out of here boogerman you're outclassed by a mile ;)

Frequent kicking, especially at certain places (tree stumps, signs, etc.) will reveals hidden keys, coins, elevators to bonus stage, etc.

Whenever you do find something, it's a good idea to snap a photo (modern) or take a note (old skool) so you won't forget about it.

The slot machine, the bosses...the arcane/mundane clues...it all adds up to a decent game.

YOU CAN USE SPRAY PAINT TO KILL NESSY!

Discovering things like that is part of the fun in JJ & Jeff.