What is your ranking on the Genjin (Bonk) series including SNES / SFC.

sengoku 2 · 12/11/2015, 01:36 PM

Hi,

my ranking is :

1- Pc genjin 2
2- Super genjin 2
3- Pc genjin

About Pc genjin 3 and Super Genjin, I did not want to play because i am not convinced by gameplay including big sprite and they are uninspired.

Check this screen of Pc genjin 3, you have background of pc genjin 2 and boss enemy of first pc genjin.

I know that the following is much inspired but world depicted is less charming than previous épisodes.

About super genjin, see Bonk walk into a modern city , it's totally out of context.

So, Pc genjin 2 is my best choice because the whole is very well balanced.
Great chara-design, great level design, good continuity throughout the game.
For example, turn into crab on the last levels and others things gives the impression that the game was thought to always offer fresh ideas to the very end of the game.

About super genjin 2, i like this new design, it has the merit not to copy Pc engine design.
We have good level design, many transformations, many new animations of Bonk and also the second background layer.

About pc genjin, i really like the world depicted on this game, it is very prehistoric and cartoony. Just Bonk sprite is not to my taste ( even when he becomes angry ) and the level design is less inspired than pc genjin 2 and super genjin 2.

Sorry, for my explanations, my english is very limited.

tbone3969 · 12/11/2015, 01:43 PM

Great synopsis. Pretty spot on I think.

CrackTiger · 12/11/2015, 01:45 PM

I really like the (cyber)punk style and dark theme of the original. The backbone design of the gameplay is great, but still not fully realized/perfected. I'd love to play a new Bonk game for PC Engine that doesn't have any of the weaknesses or hold anything back.

NecroPhile · 12/11/2015, 01:52 PM

I'd rank 'em Bonk 3, Bonk's Revenge, Bonk's Adventure. The SNES games can go fly a kite.

spenoza · 12/11/2015, 01:52 PM

I really enjoyed the PC Genjin titles, but I think the series needs some reworking if it's to survive today. Some of the archaic features of the game we can look back on as quaint, but they wouldn't fly nowadays. Bonk's insanely slow inertia is problematic, as well as the delay on his jumps and hops. Further, once Red took over for Atlus with Bonk's Revenge, hit detection got spottier, and it wasn't perfect to begin with. Part of this, I think, was to eliminate how powerful spin bonking was on bosses, because now attacking a boss was a much greater risk, but the end result is that bosses felt more frustrating and it become much harder to tell what was a safe attack and what was not.

But the question then becomes, how would a Bonk/Genjin game work without that slow, inertial movement and control delay, and how do you strip some of the immunity from the spin bonk without making it less useful for movement on-screen? You don't want Bonk to move too quickly or responsively because he's not a Sonic or Mario stand-in, but I think there has to be a better middle ground.

As for my ranking, I only know the PCE games, but I put them:

Genjin 2 / Revenge
Genjin / Adventure (VERY close to Revenge)
Genjin 3 / Big Adventure (the less-inspired design compared to Revenge causes the control issues to stand out a lot more)

CrackTiger · 12/11/2015, 02:04 PM

If you're just relying on Turbo switches for spinning, then you don't know how the gameplay really is, especially bosses.

PukeSter · 12/11/2015, 02:41 PM

I don't know about super bonk 2, but...

Bonk's Revenge
Bonk 3
Bonk's adventure
Super bonk

TurboXray · 12/11/2015, 03:30 PM

The original game feels more arcade-y to me than any other in the series. The turbo spin used to keep enemies in the air, while you beat their dead corpse for points.. is quite satisfying ;>_>

I like PC Genjin 2's bonus areas (trains) reward for collecting smileys, and would have gone perfect with the first game's atmosphere. Unlockable hidden areas/paths based on smiley face collection (and an enemy airborne until you get a smiley or whatever collectible item) - would be great for replay value.

johnnykonami · 12/11/2015, 03:53 PM

The Turbo ones are all great games, I feel like ranking them again is beating a dead horse - but I have yet to play (other than a couple of minutes) of the two SNES/SFC Bonks. They seem different than the originals, but decent enough from what I can see.

What do you guys think of GB Genjin Land: Viva! Chikkun Kingdom? I want to get that or Genjin Collection for GB (which includes it.) Not exactly a traditional Genjin game but kind of an interesting offshoot.

NecroPhile · 12/11/2015, 04:15 PM

Quote from: TurboXray on 12/11/2015, 03:30 PMI like PC Genjin 2's bonus areas (trains) reward for collecting smileys....

I really like those too, much more than the bonus games of Bonk 3. I guess you don't have to, but if you're trying to maximize score and rack up extra lives the bonus games really eat up a lot of time and break the flow of the action.

Bernie · 12/11/2015, 04:22 PM

Dont forget the one for PS2. That one is actually quite a bit of fun.

sengoku 2 · 12/11/2015, 07:07 PM

And also Bonk adventure arcade version made by Kaneko.

Too bad that it's more a time attack setting, you have to end each stage very quickly.
Furthermore, each stage is short and it is very linear.

The graphic setting is very good, and with a good level design ( longer stage, bigger map ) and a gameplay more normal ( no time attack setting ), it could be a memorable game.

VestCunt · 12/11/2015, 10:09 PM

1) Bonk's Adventure
2) Super Bonk 2
3) Bonk's Revenge
4) Bonk 3
5) Super Bonk

ParanoiaDragon · 12/12/2015, 01:28 AM

Quote from: guest on 12/11/2015, 01:52 PMI really enjoyed the PC Genjin titles, but I think the series needs some reworking if it's to survive today. Some of the archaic features of the game we can look back on as quaint, but they wouldn't fly nowadays. Bonk's insanely slow inertia is problematic, as well as the delay on his jumps and hops. Further, once Red took over for Atlus with Bonk's Revenge, hit detection got spottier, and it wasn't perfect to begin with. Part of this, I think, was to eliminate how powerful spin bonking was on bosses, because now attacking a boss was a much greater risk, but the end result is that bosses felt more frustrating and it become much harder to tell what was a safe attack and what was not.

But the question then becomes, how would a Bonk/Genjin game work without that slow, inertial movement and control delay, and how do you strip some of the immunity from the spin bonk without making it less useful for movement on-screen? You don't want Bonk to move too quickly or responsively because he's not a Sonic or Mario stand-in, but I think there has to be a better middle ground.

I've talked about this with Black Tiger & Bonknuts over the years, trying to figure out what the sweet spot would be, especially if someone for some strange reason, decided to port Super Bonk to the PCE, & make it would it could be. I'm personally just not sure if speeding up the spin in Bonk's Revenge forward, would feel right with the level design. The original games level are far more straight forward then Bonk 1, which I think allows for lot's of super duper spinning, not to mention what you said about fighting bosses. That doesn't mean it wouldn't work, I'm just not sure. Plus, with a faster spin, I wonder how well ricocheting off of walls would work if you're keeping the turbo switches on. I personally love the ricochet, but just don't know if you'd be able to ricochet all that well at the higher spinning speed.

As for Viva La Chikkun, it's ok, but really, it's just a bunch of mini-games that should be used for a different Bonk game, like say, the 2nd GB Bonk, if it ever got ported to the Turbo, then it'd be cool to have some actual minigames for it rather then just the stupid Robo Bonk battle.

spenoza · 12/12/2015, 10:28 PM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 12/11/2015, 02:04 PMIf you're just relying on Turbo switches for spinning, then you don't know how the gameplay really is, especially bosses.

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 12/12/2015, 01:28 AMI'm personally just not sure if speeding up the spin in Bonk's Revenge forward, would feel right with the level design... Plus, with a faster spin, I wonder how well ricocheting off of walls would work if you're keeping the turbo switches on. I personally love the ricochet, but just don't know if you'd be able to ricochet all that well at the higher spinning speed.

Spin speed wasn't really what I meant to be complaining about. When I mentioned hit detection and not knowing what is and isn't safe to hit on bosses, I meant even with dive attacks. On most bosses, even the tiniest adjustment of your angle of attack on a dive could make the difference between coming away with no damage or trading hits. And I found that the only way to find that angle was by pure luck, meaning you make an attack and if you get hurt that was the wrong angle. Further, it can appear you're in the clear, but you get hurt anyway. So basically, I felt in 2 and 3 hit zones were communicated very badly, if at all. 2 gives you enough hearts and lives that you can just trade hits with the boss and still win, but that's kind of annoying. There's something great about a clean win.

And Bonk's sluggish, inertial handling doesn't help at all. I think tightening up Bonk's movement precision even just a tiny bit combined with less wonky hit detection on bosses (and some enemies) could have made a real difference. The question would be how to to balance the game against that slightly easier control. Right now, 2 is "perfectly" balanced for Bonk's clumsy handling and the wonky hit detection, which is to say it's too easy because trying to build in any REAL challenge would have been WAY too frustrating for most players.

jlued686 · 12/14/2015, 12:08 PM

My ranking:

Revenge
Adventure
Super Bonk 2
Bonk 3
Super Bonk

Been a while since I've played the Game Boy versions, so I can't really comment too much on those. And yeah, the PS2/GameCube remake of Adventure is pretty fun. That arcade game is crazy, though. Not sure I could rank it anywhere since it's such a different game.

ParanoiaDragon · 12/14/2015, 07:43 PM

I forgot to mention, that, to be fair, Super Bonk actually takes place in the future, so the city landscape makes sense. If you let the title screen sit for awhile, it goes to a little cinema that shows Bonk being trapped by Drool, & being sent into the future. However, I would've made the city still look prehistoric'ish looking if I were directing the game.

imparanoic · 12/16/2015, 08:42 PM

1 pc genjin 2 pce
2 super genjin 2 sfc
3 pc genjin remake gc/ps2
4 pc genjin pce
5 pc genjin 3
6 super genjin

imparanoic · 12/16/2015, 08:44 PM

in fact, i was playing pc genjin 2 on ps vita ( pc engine classics available in Hong Kong psn) last night on train, also cross play on ps3, not many games though)

ParanoiaDragon · 12/16/2015, 10:58 PM

Quote from: imparanoic on 12/16/2015, 08:44 PMin fact, i was playing pc genjin 2 on ps vita ( pc engine classics available in Hong Kong psn) last night on train, also cross play on ps3, not many games though)

There's a PC Engine Classics on PSN in Hong Kong? If only there was a physical version, I'd pick that up, but I'm less excited in getting digital only.

imparanoic · 12/17/2015, 11:12 PM

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 12/16/2015, 10:58 PM
Quote from: imparanoic on 12/16/2015, 08:44 PMin fact, i was playing pc genjin 2 on ps vita ( pc engine classics available in Hong Kong psn) last night on train, also cross play on ps3, not many games though)
There's a PC Engine Classics on PSN in Hong Kong? If only there was a physical version, I'd pick that up, but I'm less excited in getting digital only.

yes, psn hk has some limited pc engine (around 12 hucard games) for ps3/ps vita or psp, as it's digital it's cross buy for multiple formats for a reasonable price HK$48 ( US$7), so i don't mind no physical

japan psn has over 50 pc engine classic ( including cd roms) for ps3, psp and ps vita

ParanoiaDragon · 12/18/2015, 03:28 AM

Ah, ok. I was thinking it was more like the PSP classic series of PC Engine games, like the Far East of Eden, Star Soldier, & Sapphire/Yuna compilations. There's a few Turbo games on the US PSN, maybe 10...at the most? Yeah, Japan does have a bunch on PSN IIRC.

Koop · 12/18/2015, 12:55 PM

Quote from: guest on 12/11/2015, 01:52 PMI really enjoyed the PC Genjin titles, but I think the series needs some reworking if it's to survive today.

I don't think that's something we'll have to worry about, Bonk is dead and never coming back.

EvilEvoIX · 12/18/2015, 12:55 PM

2 is a Beautiful game and really the peak of the serious IMHO. However, nothing beats Bonks Turbo Head spin mechanic in 1, they switched it up in 2 and I hated it at first but got used to it. I put 3 at the bottom however I enjoyed the two player CO-OP option. I have both the HUCARD and CD version of 3 and still does not have the charm of 1 or the presence of 2.

PukeSter · 12/22/2015, 11:14 PM

Revenge (almost a perfect game) A or A+
Bonk 3 (the level design is very expansive, music could've been better) A- or A
Super bonk 2 (really good, just some levels were tedious. Especially entire final world) A- or A
Adventure (still awesome, just mostly linear and kinda dated) B+ or A-
Super bonk (decent, too many corridors. But plenty of cool levels) C+ Or B-

Regardless of the game, it still has the character we know and love.

I flip flop between 3 and super bonk 2

Bonk 1 GB>Bonk 2 GB

PukeSter · 12/24/2015, 11:36 AM

Just played through Bonk on the Gamecube. Really cool remake!

It actually improves upon the original, except the bosses are much, much harder. This is because you die in 3 hits, and they changed their patterns completely.

Also the enemies look more generic. At least Bonk still has personality.

So I'm not sure where to rank it, but I find it very fun to play.