Possible Dos game port project

jlued686 · 12/01/2011, 12:41 PM

Sim-Whatever starring the Bonk/Zonk cast would be great! Hell, modding an RPG to give us the Bonk RPG I've been waiting for since '92 would be amazing.

But yes, Keen seems to be the way to go.

snickersbar · 12/01/2011, 06:01 PM

I voted for other, street rod is one of the best car racing games

Edmond Dantes · 12/01/2011, 09:43 PM

Quote from: guest on 12/01/2011, 10:17 AMIf you want baby steps, Keen is your answer. It's a simple platformer.

Ultima introduces the concept of first person dungeons and space-shooterthingy (Star Raiders ripoff).

That doesn't mean its gonna be more complicated.

Dude, Ultima: The First Age of Darkness was programmed in 1980 (that's almost a whole decade before Keen). In BASIC. By a single man. I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to crack.

I just voted for Keen because I'm in the mood for platformers lately.

Keranu · 12/01/2011, 10:29 PM

Quote from: snickersbar on 12/01/2011, 06:01 PMI voted for other, street rod is one of the best car racing games

I was thinking about Street Rod as well. Definitely one of the coolest car games evar.

Arkhan Asylum · 12/01/2011, 10:51 PM

Quote from: Edmond Dantes on 12/01/2011, 09:43 PM
Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 12/01/2011, 10:17 AMIf you want baby steps, Keen is your answer. It's a simple platformer.

Ultima introduces the concept of first person dungeons and space-shooterthingy (Star Raiders ripoff).
That doesn't mean its gonna be more complicated.

Dude, Ultima: The First Age of Darkness was programmed in 1980 (that's almost a whole decade before Keen). In BASIC. By a single man. I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to crack.

I just voted for Keen because I'm in the mood for platformers lately.

The problem from all of the Ultima games comes from the first person dungeon perspective. That's a bit of an advanced concept, especially on a machine that doesn't have a bitmapped screen mode. The dungeons are all drawn with lines on the PC. You can't do that well on the PCE. It's all tile based. This complicates things severely.

and lets not even get into the into-screen spaceship portion. That's a whole second beast to deal with.

BASIC doesn't always mean it's easy.

Edmond Dantes · 12/02/2011, 01:00 AM

I'm sure that if it could be done on a freaking Apple IIe, then it can be done on a PC Engine. I mean, the system has flight sims and first-person dungeon crawlers already so we know its doable.

(Actually... does the PC-Engine have a flight sim? I assume it does but I've never heard of one...)

spenoza · 12/02/2011, 01:34 AM

It has Falcon. Don't know what that's worth, though.

Arkhan Asylum · 12/02/2011, 01:43 AM

Quote from: Edmond Dantes on 12/02/2011, 01:00 AMI'm sure that if it could be done on a freaking Apple IIe, then it can be done on a PC Engine. I mean, the system has flight sims and first-person dungeon crawlers already so we know its doable.

(Actually... does the PC-Engine have a flight sim? I assume it does but I've never heard of one...)

It's not a question of whether its possible or not. It's a question of: Is this feasible as a first project for a newcomer?

The answer to that is no.

Lord British wrote many, many games for the Apple II before Ultima 1. Akalabeth wasn't his first game.

spenoza · 12/02/2011, 01:54 AM

I kinda agree with Arky (yes, it does happen). Given the lack of a bitmap mode on the PCE, a platformer (or shooter, or other simple, sprite-blitty game) might be an easier start. That said, if you do the first-person dungeon in chunks, un-animated, it probably wouldn't be so bad at all. What I mean by that is instead of walking forward smoothly, you walk forward one square and your perspective on the dungeon jumps forward.

Has anyone managed to determine how Double Dungeons does its animated step-forward bit? There are other systems from that era which surely do the same.

Keranu · 12/02/2011, 05:00 AM

/Kn172OHjTC8bSw

esteban · 12/02/2011, 06:27 AM

Ultima: The First Age of Electrolytes by Lord Pepsi

Quote from: Keranu on 12/02/2011, 05:00 AM/Kn172OHjTC8bSw

Arkhan Asylum · 12/02/2011, 08:29 AM

Quote from: guest on 12/02/2011, 01:54 AMI kinda agree with Arky (yes, it does happen). Given the lack of a bitmap mode on the PCE, a platformer (or shooter, or other simple, sprite-blitty game) might be an easier start. That said, if you do the first-person dungeon in chunks, un-animated, it probably wouldn't be so bad at all. What I mean by that is instead of walking forward smoothly, you walk forward one square and your perspective on the dungeon jumps forward.

Chunk moving is way easier to do, but it's still a pretty difficult task overall. It's not the keeping track of position in dungeon part.. it's the drawing of tiles that look well, then managing them in VRAM with your other stuff... and then putting them on screen properly. Not to mention it's a pain to test that kinda crap out. You have to make sure you can redraw the screen quick enough so the transition from block to block isn't a boring, laggy process. Some old games fall victim to that crap. Every step you get to watch the screen slowly appear again. Sucks.

QuoteHas anyone managed to determine how Double Dungeons does its animated step-forward bit? There are other systems from that era which surely do the same.

It's doing raycasting, IIRC. Raycasting without floating point nonsense is doable on systems of this era (There was a recent MSX2 homebrew game doing it all Wolf3D style), but you will note the playfield is frikkin small... and lacks variety. You can practically see each repeated 8x8 tile every time you turn in that game.

The biggest culprit of that is Phantasy Star. The dungeons have no variety to them! Games that do block-based dungeons usually have more variety. Look at Pool of Radiance.

Don't worry too much about Ultima.

I already said I'd do it, and I usually do what I say.

Besides, the people want KEEN. Truthfully, I'd love to see an Ultima VI port to PCE, that uses the PCE mouse. that would be wicked.

it'd also be a giant pain in the cock. That game did some amazing nonsense with memory management/resources/lack of load times. Seamless transitions! W T F

Mishran · 12/02/2011, 10:16 AM

Quote from: guest on 12/02/2011, 08:29 AMTruthfully, I'd love to see an Ultima VI port to PCE, that uses the PCE mouse. that would be wicked.

There are some homebrew U6 engines on the net. If someone could figure a way to turbobify the code, it could be done I'm sure. I know jack about coding, so I'm just assuming. A version similer to the FM Towns U6 would be a dream come true.

Arkhan Asylum · 12/02/2011, 10:26 AM

Quote from: Mishran on 12/02/2011, 10:16 AM
Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 12/02/2011, 08:29 AMTruthfully, I'd love to see an Ultima VI port to PCE, that uses the PCE mouse. that would be wicked.
There are some homebrew U6 engines on the net. If someone could figure a way to turbobify the code, it could be done I'm sure. I know jack about coding, so I'm just assuming. A version similer to the FM Towns U6 would be a dream come true.

We lack bitmapped goodness. The game would be awful to deal with. Lotsssssssss of loading would have to happen. Off the CD. It would suck a big ol' peter.

It's doable, but easily? no. It would mostly have to be redone from the ground up, as any code from any computer is going to do alot of bitmapped nonsense. The logic/battle/conversation/storage stuff would probably translate decently, but all of the visuals... would be from scratch. and it would hurt.

Arkhan Asylum · 12/02/2011, 12:59 PM

As for Ultima:

/ultimaj.png
/underpy.png

Like I said, I fully intend to bring Ultima ][ to the Turbob at some point, with more character to it in towns and such.

While maintaining the 1982 style RPG gameplay.

And, here is the original title dragon, for maximum DERP

Mishran · 12/02/2011, 05:44 PM

Quote from: guest on 12/02/2011, 12:59 PMAs for Ultima:

/ultimaj.png
/underpy.png

Like I said, I fully intend to bring Ultima ][ to the Turbob at some point, with more character to it in towns and such.

While maintaining the 1982 style RPG gameplay.

And, here is the original title dragon, for maximum DERP

I think I need a new pair of undies...

esteban · 12/02/2011, 06:23 PM

Ark, that is pure sweetness. I just wet Mishran's undies, too.

Arkhan Asylum · 12/02/2011, 11:15 PM

I didn't paint this stuff. sunteam paul did, because hes awesome.

esteban · 12/03/2011, 12:07 AM

Quote from: guest on 12/02/2011, 11:15 PMI didn't paint this stuff. sunteam paul did, because hes awesome.

Indeed he is

VestCunt · 12/03/2011, 04:10 AM

Pants-shitting good!

FraGMarE · 12/03/2011, 07:17 AM

Woa, I just saw this thread. Four fucking words... DAY. OF. THE. TENTACLE!

/dott01.gif
/dott02.gif

A couple of 9-bitified screen shots for obeying minds.

nat · 12/03/2011, 03:32 PM

Never heard of that game before. It looks interesting. But.... I still vote Keen Dreams.

Arkhan Asylum · 12/03/2011, 05:24 PM

Quote from: nat on 12/03/2011, 03:32 PMNever heard of that game before. It looks interesting. But.... I still vote Keen Dreams.

Chiptuned' Vegetable Theme.

Gotta have it.

BigusSchmuck · 12/03/2011, 10:45 PM

Or I could just put children of the bodom as background music. Probably have a riot on my hands if I did that. lol

FraGMarE · 12/03/2011, 11:15 PM

Quote from: nat on 12/03/2011, 03:32 PMNever heard of that game before. It looks interesting. But.... I still vote Keen Dreams.

Wow really? I thought anybody old enough to remember DOS would remember DoTT. It's the sequel to Maniac Mansion... and it's awesome!

spenoza · 12/04/2011, 12:26 AM

All hail the games of SCUMM! LucasArts was definitely solid competition to Sierra.

nat · 12/04/2011, 03:39 PM

Quote from: fragmare on 12/03/2011, 11:15 PM
Quote from: nat on 12/03/2011, 03:32 PMNever heard of that game before. It looks interesting. But.... I still vote Keen Dreams.
Wow really? I thought anybody old enough to remember DOS would remember DoTT. It's the sequel to Maniac Mansion... and it's awesome!

I may have come across it when I was younger, but I certainly don't remember it.

Mishran · 12/04/2011, 04:44 PM

Quote from: fragmare on 12/03/2011, 11:15 PMIt's the sequel to Maniac Mansion... and it's awesome!

And it's got a version of Maniac Mansion built into the game! Doubly awesome!

OldRover · 12/08/2011, 08:24 PM

I went against the grain and voted Old D&D games. I'd love to see a PCE port of Pool Of Radiance... been considering it myself, in fact. But I already have enough on my plate.

Btw Arkhan, not to nitpick but... the original DOOM didn't have slopes. Those weren't added to DOOM gameplay until the ZDOOM engine and people exploited the feature for custom PWADs. The original DOOM code is pretty basic, really... though it was coded rather retardedly. Carmack was on pills when he coded it; C wasn't his thing and it shows (he was an Obj-C whore then and still is now). The original DOOM is little more than a heightmapping sector renderer that uses a pitifully simple double-scan raycaster core and the most ridiculously simplistic lightmapping scheme ever invented.

Arkhan Asylum · 12/08/2011, 09:24 PM

DOOM has slopes. It always has. Slopes meaning, various heights. Wolfenstein has 1 height for the whole game. Doom has many. It has elevators, stairs, pitfalls, balconies, and all of that.

spenoza · 12/09/2011, 01:12 AM

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 12/08/2011, 09:24 PMDOOM has slopes. It always has. Slopes meaning, various heights. Wolfenstein has 1 height for the whole game. Doom has many. It has elevators, stairs, pitfalls, balconies, and all of that.

You have an interesting definition of the word slope. A slope isn't a difference in height. It is an inclined surface. Doom has height differences. I'm sure there's a good term for that, but slope ain't it.

OldRover · 12/09/2011, 02:32 AM

Those ain't slopes, Arkhan... those are just height variations. By your definition, a staircase is a slope (that's all DOOM has that is slope-like). You could, in theory, create a number of tiny sectors that are 4 units apart and 1 or 2 units tall and call it a "slope", though this wouldn't work too hot on the original DOOM engine as it would crash pretty damn quick. Again, slopes were not added until ZDOOM. My own PWAD (which is based on Heretic) uses slopes here and there, my favorite GZDOOM PWAD (The Ultimate Torment And Torture) uses them extensively. Neither of these will even load in the original engine, let alone run.

Arkhan Asylum · 12/09/2011, 08:31 AM

slope/slant/angle/whatever

There are places where you run down spiraled staircases and the height changes so rapidly its just as good as a slope. There are also angular hallways/rooms/corridors. Riemanns Sum! Use a buncha squares to figure out a slope.

See? Look at that yellow one.

All of these kinds of things are not doable on the PC Engine. Wolfenstein on the other hand, with it's lack of stairs/heights/platforms/elevators/angles/shit thats easier to explain just by saying "slopes", would be much more doable.

spenoza · 12/09/2011, 01:33 PM

There are so many fucking ports of Wolfenstein, and it's not even that great a shooter. It was historically important, but it wasn't all that fun. Yes, Wolf is a much easier to do FPS. I concur. But why would we want it on the PCE? So we can have yet another version? No, I say go for the stuff that's hard to get outside of DOS.

Arkhan Asylum · 12/09/2011, 01:37 PM

Quote from: guest on 12/09/2011, 01:33 PMThere are so many fucking ports of Wolfenstein, and it's not even that great a shooter. It was historically important, but it wasn't all that fun. Yes, Wolf is a much easier to do FPS. I concur. But why would we want it on the PCE? So we can have yet another version? No, I say go for the stuff that's hard to get outside of DOS.

Oh, I wasn't saying hey lets port Wolfenstein., I was just saying a game LIKE wolfenstein would be possible.

But no, I don't want Wolf3DPCE. Screw that.

NecroPhile · 12/09/2011, 01:39 PM

China Warrior 3D!

Arkhan Asylum · 12/09/2011, 02:01 PM

Ho. ly.
Shiat.

With Bluce Ree sound fx?

BigusSchmuck · 12/09/2011, 03:28 PM

Or Heretic. ^^ I find it hard to believe we could port over the quake engine unless of course we include the arcade card into the equation, then maybe...

Arkhan Asylum · 12/09/2011, 06:25 PM

The arcade card isn't going to help much. It's the CPU processing speed that is the problem here.

nat · 12/09/2011, 09:12 PM

Quote from: guest on 12/09/2011, 01:33 PMThere are so many fucking ports of Wolfenstein, and it's not even that great a shooter. It was historically important, but it wasn't all that fun.

I don't know, Wolf3D is one of my favorite games of all time and among 3 or 4 FPS games I can even tolerate. That may have a lot to do with nostalgia, but it also might have to do with the beautifully simplistic design. Doom is another great one, but I like it slightly less than Wolf3D. (Don't mistake this as lobbying for a Wolf3D port on the Turbo.)

Wolf3D shouldn't be as historically lauded as it is, though. id Software created the Catacomb 3D games a number of years before Wolfenstein. They were the REAL grandfathers of that genre, Wolf just got more widespread exposure for some reason. Subject matter, maybe? The self-imposed "PC-13" rating? Who knows. The Catacomb 3D games (there are four of them) are my favorite 3D FPS games of all time. Wolfenstein 3D used the same engine (more or less) as those games, but they ran in EGA as opposed to VGA.

If I had to pick any early FPS game to port to the Turbo, it'd be one of the Catacombs. Either The Descent or The Abyss.

Keranu · 12/09/2011, 11:19 PM

Quote from: nat on 12/09/2011, 09:12 PMI don't know, Wolf3D is one of my favorite games of all time and among 3 or 4 FPS games I can even tolerate. That may have a lot to do with nostalgia, but it also might have to do with the beautifully simplistic design. Doom is another great one, but I like it slightly less than Wolf3D. (Don't mistake this as lobbying for a Wolf3D port on the Turbo.)

You might find this shocking, but I agree with this entire paragraph 120% [BURNING Fest].

shubibiman · 12/10/2011, 04:45 AM

I voted Monkey island. Loom and Beyond Shadowgate showed how well the PCE could handle point&click games and this one is on of the best.

Arkhan Asylum · 12/10/2011, 12:21 PM

man, the Catacomb games were awesome. We had those on my old ass computer. I think Wolf3D did better because of the shareware thing. Isn't it supposedly the most successful shareware game ever?

I'm with nat in this one. I don't like many FPS games past Doom 2. Quake is about it, really lol.

OldRover · 12/10/2011, 01:47 PM

My thing for FPS games dies at Quake II. Shit just got stupid after that.

Arkhan Asylum · 12/10/2011, 02:47 PM

Yeah Quake II is probably the last FPS game I gave two flying fucks about.

oh wait, Quake 3 arena and Outtrigger on Dreamcast were fun!

ParanoiaDragon · 12/10/2011, 06:58 PM

It's funny, bitd, I hated FPS's, they actually kind of made me sick, like some kind of motion sickness. But as the years have gone by, I've gotten into a few of them. I enjoyed the first 2 Red Factions(the 3rd & 4th games are 3rd person), the Half Life games seem fun but I haven't played all the way thru either of them. Oh, I did really enjoy Golden Eye & Perfect Dark bitd. I have XIII but haven't played it much, I do love that it's a cell shaded FPS. I do like Alien vs. Predator for Jag, but haven't gotten into the newer PS3 game. Skyhammer is pretty cool. Tried to get into the Resistance games, but, just couldn't for some reason. I have Jedi Outcast on the GC, it's dope, though, I've gotten distracted from finishing it. Metroid Prime Hunters can eat me, the regular Metroid Prime games(FPA's really) are....kinda cool, but, I still haven't gotten into them. I just want my old 2D stuff, so Other M was a step in the right direction. Cyberdillo is cool just for the cheese factor. I kinda like PO'd, but wish there was music or more ambiance or something. And I did find the Unreal games to be fun, though, the last one didn't do anything for me. One of these days I'll try playing Robotech Invasion & Warhammer Fire Warrior.

roflmao · 12/10/2011, 07:15 PM

FPS's have been hit or miss for me. I loved the original Half-life (PC). And the first Halo (X-box). And both of the Left 4 Dead games (PC). I also spent a fair amount of time bitd playing Perfect Dark, though I never liked the N64 controller. Wolf3D and Doom were pretty awesome also.

But as much as I wanted to like them, Morrowind and Oblivion never really held my interest. I tried them both on the PC and their current consoles but none of them stuck.

Oh yeah, Quake III Arena on the Dreamcast was a hoot, but I recently dug it out again and it wasn't as much fun as I remembered. (Same with Perfect Dark - story-wise it's still awesome, but that damn controller... ugh.)

ParanoiaDragon · 12/10/2011, 07:18 PM

Quote from: guest on 12/10/2011, 07:15 PMFPS's have been hit or miss for me. I loved the original Half-life (PC). And the first Halo (X-box). And both of the Left 4 Dead games (PC). I also spent a fair amount of time bitd playing Perfect Dark, though I never liked the N64 controller. Wolf3D and Doom were pretty awesome also.

But as much as I wanted to like them, Morrowind and Oblivion never really held my interest. I tried them both on the PC and their current consoles but none of them stuck.

Oh yeah, Quake III Arena on the Dreamcast was a hoot, but I recently dug it out again and it wasn't as much fun as I remembered. (Same with Perfect Dark - story-wise it's still awesome, but that damn controller... ugh.)

Yeah, the N64 controller can go to Hades. Oh, & I'm getting Borderlands, sounds like an FPS mixed with Trigun & Cowboy Bebop!

Arkhan Asylum · 12/10/2011, 10:26 PM

Well Morrowind and Oblivious weren't FPS games. They're RPGs. Its an FPS for people who suck at reflexes.

incrediblehark · 12/10/2011, 11:18 PM

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 12/10/2011, 07:18 PMYeah, the N64 controller can go to Hades.

I got some replacement thumbsticks closer to the GC controller and its not as much of a chore for me to play n64 anymore. Quake 3 dc was a lot of fun, goldeneye and perfect dark were great in the day but don't hold up well for me now with the framerate. I am not a fan of FPS games but when I do have people over those are the games they want to play

Although I am working some bomberman into the mix and its growing on them.

As a side note, I find it interesting that the kids who play first person shooters call themselves "Hardcore" gamers when its the most popular genre today, they are more like the mainstream gamer than hardcore

2/13/2025: Localization News - Cosmic Fantasy 3-4!

Possible Dos game port project

What early Dos games would you love to see ported over to the PCengine/Turbo Grafx?