Flash carts for the pc engine/turbo

lastcallhall · 12/09/2011, 03:20 PM

If the PSU is generating ~750 mA, the power shouldn't be a problem. The Genesis can run off of ~350-500 mA without a problem, I refuse to believe that a PCE needs the majority of the 750mA to run the system without having enough to send a 5v signal to the card reader. Again, I'm somewhat new to the PCE technology - How much amperage is supplied by the cart slot?

Arkhan Asylum · 12/09/2011, 03:35 PM

Quote from: lastcallhall on 12/09/2011, 03:20 PMIf the PSU is generating ~750 mA, the power shouldn't be a problem. The Genesis can run off of ~350-500 mA without a problem, I refuse to believe that a PCE needs the majority of the 750mA to run the system without having enough to send a 5v signal to the card reader. Again, I'm somewhat new to the PCE technology - How much amperage is supplied by the cart slot?

It's an intermittent problem. Not all units have it. Sometimes the 5v line isn't powerful enough to power all kinds of dumbass addons. It's not part of the original spec: Game cards.

so, they obviously did not catch or care about it, I guess.

lastcallhall · 12/09/2011, 03:41 PM

Huh. Now I'm really curious to see what the problem is. Thanks for filling me in.

OldMan · 12/09/2011, 05:15 PM

QuoteAgain, I'm somewhat new to the PCE technology - How much amperage is supplied by the cart slot?

Not sure, but at a minimum it would have to be enough to power an older EPROM chip.
If I read things correctly, that would be about 30 mA.
(from here: http://eshop.engineering.uiowa.edu/NI/pdfs/01/03/DS010329.pdf)

So, assuming you have (generously) 50 mA for the chip, that would allow you to -maybe- run 2 eeproms.
And, if they use a more modern (ie, lower current) flash chip, they -might- get away with running 4-5 devices at that load.

Personally, I believe the problem has to do with the 5V signals being under voltage due to the chips pulling (for just a bit) too much current. But I'm not sure about that, as my card works fine....
Would love to see some measurements of how much current -is- available on the 5V line, though

thesteve · 12/09/2011, 08:29 PM

i dont believe its a current problem.
the PCE/TG system has poor (non existent) data bus termination causing some cards not to function in some systems.
the data bus system (slot and expansion bus) is basically a SCSI concept and will run better with a terminator resistor on the ends.

Supremo_Lagarto · 12/09/2011, 08:29 PM

Quote from: TheOldMan on 12/09/2011, 05:15 PM
QuoteAgain, I'm somewhat new to the PCE technology - How much amperage is supplied by the cart slot?
Not sure, but at a minimum it would have to be enough to power an older EPROM chip.
If I read things correctly, that would be about 30 mA.
(from here: http://eshop.engineering.uiowa.edu/NI/pdfs/01/03/DS010329.pdf)

So, assuming you have (generously) 50 mA for the chip, that would allow you to -maybe- run 2 eeproms.
And, if they use a more modern (ie, lower current) flash chip, they -might- get away with running 4-5 devices at that load.

Personally, I believe the problem has to do with the 5V signals being under voltage due to the chips pulling (for just a bit) too much current. But I'm not sure about that, as my card works fine....
Would love to see some measurements of how much current -is- available on the 5V line, though

Do you think it is possible that it might be that there is rippling or noise on that +5 volt line on some systems?

On my Duo I can play most games on the card for a full minute before they corrupt and freeze.

And if it is rippling, might there be a way to remedy that?

thesteve · 12/09/2011, 08:48 PM

yes line noise and bus noise are the likely catalyst.
capacitors are used to reduce it.

Supremo_Lagarto · 12/10/2011, 06:47 PM

How many volts and micro-farads should the cap be and where would it be placed?

thesteve · 12/10/2011, 07:24 PM

the cap would need to be 5V or more 6.3V and 16V are most common.
as to the uf it depends on how much damping you want.

where to hook it..........thats the big question.
the cap or caps should go where the problem noise is (id start with the 5V line)
CE is another, and would need to be a much smaller cap

i suspect a pull-up resistor array on the data lines may solve it good

lastcallhall · 12/14/2011, 12:59 PM

Quote from: thesteve on 12/10/2011, 07:24 PMthe cap would need to be 5V or more 6.3V and 16V are most common.
as to the uf it depends on how much damping you want.

where to hook it..........thats the big question.
the cap or caps should go where the problem noise is (id start with the 5V line)
CE is another, and would need to be a much smaller cap

i suspect a pull-up resistor array on the data lines may solve it good

Since all the noise would be carried throughout the circuit, couldn't you just toss a 220uF cap on right before hitting the 5v pin? that should clean it up, right? I don't have the board near me so I can't see how the PCB is laid out, but I would think that would be the simplest fix.

A_Locomotive · 12/14/2011, 01:28 PM

Quote from: guest on 12/05/2011, 02:33 PMThe Jaguar has one good game.

Tempest 2000

oh and Defender 2000 or whatever.

AKA: 3Dish diddleremakes of games.

It has more good games then that. Granted none of them are exclusives but I quite enjoy Rayman, the above mentioned Tempest 2000, Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure, Cannon Fodder, Flashback, even Doom with its total lack of music. With Doom I play my own music, I have a dark ambient album by the group Temple of Not that is pants shittingly terrifying when combined with Doom and makes the game even better.

genetik · 02/02/2012, 09:13 AM

So did the group buy happened? If not, I would be down for one. I just got my Turbo and would very much like to test out games on an actual console before putting down money for a Hucard. $150 is a bit steep, but I would be ready to spend $100 plus shipping for one. Really looking for Krikzz's everdrive, but I would like to start checking out games now.

Mishran · 02/02/2012, 01:21 PM

No, several individuals, including myself, were interested in doing it, but it never happened. There is the question of whether it will work with your Turbo anyway with some systems being unable to supply enough voltage to operate it properly. Some systems work, some don't. That same question goes for the everdrive as well. With it supposed to use SD cards for its storage medium, it may have the exact same problem as the flash carts unless Krikzz can overcome that problem somehow. I personally would still like to attempt to obtain the flash cart in the possibility that the everdrive never sees the light of day.

genetik · 02/02/2012, 01:28 PM

I read in the previous replies about the risks of it not working. I'm thinking that if it doesn't, I could always try to find a cheap TG16 until it works or just resell the flash cart. At $50 cheaper than what they usually sell it for, I'm thinking that wouldn't be that hard to get rid of it without losing too much money.

Mishran · 02/02/2012, 01:49 PM

I recall that people were having the 128M versions being Dead on arrival as well. If I were to go for one, I'd prefer the 64M flash cart. I'll try starting a thread for a multi-buy for one to see if there is still interest.

incrediblehark · 02/02/2012, 04:50 PM

I completely forgot about this! I was on board for the group buy back then, and still in for one now. personally the bigger storage the better, but I'm willing to compromise and go with the majority if it means saving a few bucks with the group buy.

esteban · 02/06/2012, 03:58 PM

Quote from: Mishran on 02/02/2012, 01:21 PMNo, several individuals, including myself, were interested in doing it, but it never happened. There is the question of whether it will work with your Turbo anyway with some systems being unable to supply enough voltage to operate it properly. Some systems work, some don't. That same question goes for the everdrive as well. With it supposed to use SD cards for its storage medium, it may have the exact same problem as the flash carts unless Krikzz can overcome that problem somehow. I personally would still like to attempt to obtain the flash cart in the possibility that the everdrive never sees the light of day.

I'm slowly trying to catch up on everything, but I am still interested in a group discount purchase.

NecroPhile · 02/06/2012, 04:16 PM

Quote from: esteban on 02/06/2012, 03:58 PMI'm slowly trying to catch up on everything, but I am still interested in a group discount purchase.

Don't miss this thread, este.

esteban · 02/07/2012, 05:19 PM

Quote from: guest on 02/06/2012, 04:16 PM
Quote from: esteban on 02/06/2012, 03:58 PMI'm slowly trying to catch up on everything, but I am still interested in a group discount purchase.
Don't miss this thread, este.

Thank you, my friend

emu002 · 02/08/2012, 06:38 PM

I have the snes everdrive and can vouch for the top quality of these flash cards - I haven't had a single problem with mine
I am looking forward to getting the pc engine version when it comes out

meka · 03/27/2012, 06:34 AM

The NEO Power 128 Flash Cart is rubbish, Krikzz who has created several fantastic flash carts and will be releasing one for the pc engine (so I've heard), hopefully this is true as it would use a sd card and compatablity would be great and no use of those silly drivers and slow burning method, just drag and drop.