What if...?

[Sadler]

I see threads here from time to time on what games you'd bring out in the US if you were in charge of the TG16. Let's take that a step further: what if everything available in Japan was available in the US, completely localized. Let's even include hardware in this. Do you think the TG would have come out on top then?

I'm not sure where I stand on it. The PC Engine had lots of fantastic stuff, and plenty that would appeal to the American gamer. At the end of the day though, I really don't know if it'd be enough.

[nectarsis]

At the time the lack of fighters, and sports games would have still been an obstacle IMO.

[Sadler]

At the time the lack of fighters, and sports games would have still been an obstacle IMO.

Good point on the sports games! Seems like there were a lot of fighters over the years, including the SNK fighters, Flash Hiders, Advanced VG (which I'm told blows), SF2, and Kabuki Itoryuden. Kabuki might be too Japanese though, and I'm guessing there's a good chance the arcade card would suffer the same problems in the US that it did in Japan which would negate most of the fighters on the system.

[tggodfrey]

I agree.  NEC focus wayy too much on shooters.

[SignOfZeta]

I see threads here from time to time on what games you'd bring out in the US if you were in charge of the TG16. Let's take that a step further: what if everything available in Japan was available in the US, completely localized. Let's even include hardware in this. Do you think the TG would have come out on top then?

At the time I thought it would. Well, I never though it could be "number 1" or "defeat the competition" because, really who gives a shit who's number one? I did think they could at least make money and stay in business in the US if they would just translate more games.

Looking back on it these days though...I don't know. Probably not. I suppose its possible that with more RPGs the TG-16 could have done what Sony did with FFVII a few years earlier and create the mainstream US RPG crowd, but probably not. The system was just too expensive. In Japan guys who bought a PCE w/ CD capability were mainly buying it because they wanted to play stuff like Dragon Warrior with CD enhancements. They were already fans of RPGs thanks to the Famicom, huge fans, and the upgrade was worth the money. In the US though gamers still seemed to REALLY hate to read.

Pre-CD games on PCE were considered too crude compared to Genesis/SNES stuff, and post CD games were mostly RPGs, which Americans didn't want. The system was basically screwed. They could have done better than they did, they really squandered a chance to get one up on the Genesis in particular, but I really don't think they had a chance to be "number 1" or even number 3.

[motdelbourt]

They would have gotten a little more attention. But PCE games are just so Japanese and catered to Japanese tastes, that no amount of bad western box art could have disguised that fact. The PCE library would have gone over great with the culture of the late 90s, but the late 80s and early 90s was too soon. NEC/TTi was kinda going for PC ports for western games, which was not a bad strategy, but they really would have needed more support from Electronic Arts, and possibly more direct support from PC publishers and developers.

But having everything localized would have given their marketing team a fighting chance. They would still have to spin it into successful sales, and drum up some local development, 3rd party publishers, more ports, etc.

So my answer is no, it wouldn't be enough. Solid foundation to expand on though, yes.

[RegalSin]

The Turbo would have been remodeled at some point, because of the obvious reasons. The obvious reason is the Genesis Mega Drive. If Atari had purchased the Turbo, and modeled it into the Jaguar maybe we would have seen something but the following still remains.

The Turbo would need some sorta plablicity to beat Mario and Sonic. I was a Mario fan, while my cousin was a Sonic fan. Then the big boys were all Amiga, and Arcade fans. SNK had drop the bomb of consoles for the importers.

Why would Alex Kid or Boink even fight Mario and Sonic, I do not know. Boink for instance was a fun game, but in comparison to Sonic and Mario. I doubt kids where singing about it, I remember drawing and dancing to Mario, even watching Captain Louie. RPG games was restricted to DAD people, and nobody even knew what a Comic adventure is until Metal Gear ( Snatcher ), and the NDS ( Ace Atourney ) came out. Our creativity was spread out all over the place, and we were recovering from the 1970's, apparently. In the west they divided the Comic books into two systems while in Japan they never did such a thing. The creator of Final Fantasy said "without the popularity of comics, videogames would have never been popular".

While I listen to "Yellow Magic" I am 100% honestly glad that it never happen. Look at Victor, you can obviously see they have attempted to port games of Japans taste, while most western games are left out to hang, and be forgotten. The entirety game changer, is the American consumer and makes a Japan game company thrive nation wide. Not the other way around. While counterfiting is occuring of American products. Most Japanese games are not purchased at all, and stays in stock. However in the west I believe out dead stock is destroyed or put outside.

[turbofan1]

I agree.  NEC focus Way too much on shooters.

True,but we still missed out on some really great shooters.Spiggan,nexzar,Parodius,Macross 2036.The turbo didn`t have much third party support,so I would of localized as many pc engine games that people were familiar with.For example Ninja Gaiden,Double Dragon II,Out Run.

[NecroPhile]

I'm not sure if it could've taken the top spot or even nudged out the Genny, but it definitely would've made 'em profitable enough to fail even harder with the PC-FX ( ).  Lack of fighters and good sports games (is there such a thing?) is really a non-issue, as had the Turbob been more popular there would've been more games catering specifically to the NA audience (as happened with the SNES and Genesis).

They could have done better than they did, they really squandered a chance to get one up on the Genesis in particular, but I really don't think they had a chance to be "number 1" or even number 3.

I thought they already were in third.  Who are you counting in the third spot?  NeoGeo?  CDi?  32X?

[Arkhan Asylum]

The sports game garbage is an American thing.   If people gave two shits about the turbob here, EA would've put out a bunch of crap football and hockey games just like they did for the Genesis.


Plus, the baseball games for the Turbob that we never got are better than everything on SNES and Genesis anyway

[soop]

Hmm.  I think if they put out EVERYTHING, they would probably have come out worse than they did.  A lot of it wouldn't have sold too well, and the cost of manufacturing and making all those games to poor reception would have been high.

I think if they'd been a bit pickier about what they did release earlier on, it would have made the difference.  As it was, it never had the momentum.

[JoshTurboTrollX]

If that is the case, then the TG16 would have been released in 1987. A two year advantage over the Genesis.

I think if that would have happened the TG would have been in direct competition with the SNES in the early 90s. I'm not sure if would have lasted all the way to the next generation, but it would have definitely helped get them passed Sega....

[BigusSchmuck]

You know, if we saw a super duo with the arcade card and super grafx capabilities and released in 92, I believe TTI would have been able to compete better at the very least with the snes and genesis at the time. We would have then gotten the neo fighters at a fraction of the cost of getting an actual NeoGeo and the games for it. Again, cost would be a factor to all of this, but at $300 would still be better than paying $300 just for the sega cd for the genesis at the time.

[Arkhan Asylum]

If they would've released half the action games that they never gave us, we'd have been a bit more set than we were...

I put a few non action games in here too.  like Necromancer and Outlive.  Necromancer would've been a great US release.

Eternal City
Cyber Cross & Cross Wiber
Altered Beast
Final Blaster
Outlive
Necromancer
After Burner 2
OutRun (power drift too.  Its better anyways!)
Ninja Gaiden (who cares if it scrolls funny)
Schibibin Man
Raiden
SF2
Kyukyoku Tiger (I mean duhrrrr wtf)

there are more even.  The shooters would've done great.  and the rest helps round it out some.

Whoever picked what to bring over was a dumbfuck.

[thesteve]

the best option would of been not to region lock anything, and multilang everything.
that would allow them to directly cross market games without the added cost of the US releases.
making your money off game licensing rather than system would have helped get the DUO into kids hands

[nectarsis]

I'm not sure if it could've taken the top spot or even nudged out the Genny, but it definitely would've made 'em profitable enough to fail even harder with the PC-FX ( ).  Lack of fighters and good sports games (is there such a thing?) is really a non-issue, as had the Turbob been more popular there would've been more games catering specifically to the NA audience (as happened with the SNES and Genesis).

They could have done better than they did, they really squandered a chance to get one up on the Genesis in particular, but I really don't think they had a chance to be "number 1" or even number 3.

I thought they already were in third.  Who are you counting in the third spot?  NeoGeo?  CDi?  32X?

The sports game garbage is an American thing.   If people gave two shits about the turbob here, EA would've put out a bunch of crap football and hockey games just like they did for the Genesis.


Plus, the baseball games for the Turbob that we never got are better than everything on SNES and Genesis anyway

I was basing the sports games/fighters comment off the OP's "what if" on the library as it sits...not "what if Turbo became more popular then those likes would be catered to"    

[Turbotracks]

So many good points here. I don't think it would have made a difference either.  I think it could have been a closer battle for #2 had the Turbo received a better ad campaign. I talk to a lot of customers at a friends game store and so many have no idea what the Turbo is but the have SNES and Genesis games in their hands.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I was basing the sports games/fighters comment off the OP's "what if" on the library as it sits...not "what if Turbo became more popular then those likes would be catered to"   

but..

the sports games in USA mostly came out *after* the system was popular, so, if it were more popular, there would've been more sports games.


Sports games should be removed from the equation, and we should have got the power leagues here.  I dunno how we didn't.   Someones an idiot at TTI or something.

[Turbotracks]

I don't think the Power League games made it because licensing teams and players was a huge selling point, but also incredibly expensive.  Although, Baseball Stars on the NES was quite the hit.

[SignOfZeta]

You know, if we saw a super duo with the arcade card and super grafx capabilities and released in 92, I believe TTI would have been able to compete better at the very least with the snes and genesis at the time.

There wouldn't be much point in a SGX capable Duo in 1992. By then it had already been a year since the last SGX game was released in Japan.

IMO the US Duo was an amazing deal. For $300 it came with five friggn games, all of them decent, some of the absolutely fantastic. Buying all that shit on the JP market would have cost hundreds more. I think they valued it up to the breaking point as it was.

[Keith Courage]

The system would have sold more in the US if it had come out a whole year or two earlier like it had in Japan. It would have had time to gain a following before the Genesis and SNES showed up. The system was designed to be better than the NES and to then be able to keep going close to par with the power of the newer other 16bit consoles.

[thesteve]

well put keith.
i remember the ad's for the turbo hitting 1 week before the genni

[esteban]

I don't think you folks haven't mentioned beat-em-ups yet...that was a huge genre back in the day and PCE/TG-16 would have benefitted from a "killer" beat-em-up or two.

Where was our "Fighting Streets of Rage" techno-dance infused beat-em-up?

Sadly, even if the TG-16 managed to have a few "killer" titles in the popular genres of the time, I don't think it would have had enough momentum to compete with Sega and Nintendo. Even if TG-16 launched X-mas 1988...would it have been able to compete with NES?

NES was a juggernaut and I know I would have chosen to stick with NES over TG-16 simply because NES had an insanely awesome library of titles. Mega Man II (NES) stole the show in 1988! What would TG-16 offer us?

I hate to be pessimistic, but I don't think PCE/TG-16 would have been successful without a healthy serving of LUCK (a runaway success like Legendary Axe? Alien Crush?)

Check out Best PCE game released in 1988 and tell me if any title could compete with the superb titles on NES...

NOTE: Cooks became maudlin upon reading this post

[Turbotracks]

Good point. '88 was a huge year for NES. Zelda II was the game to get that holiday season. Over 4 million copies sold of that game alone really eats up the consumers game spending.

[SamIAm]

My 2 cents:

The barebones TG-16 unit needed to succeed pretty well by itself before we could ever talk about expansions like the CD-ROM.

As a child in the early 90's, it was an ordeal just to get my hands on a SNES with one game at $130. I think most of my friends were in the same boat. Middle class kids could afford a basic system, a few games a year, and that's about it.

In order to make it succeed, I'm going to agree that it needed a kickass platformer with a highly marketable character. Sorry Bonk.

[BigusSchmuck]

I don't think you folks haven't mentioned beat-em-ups yet...that was a huge genre back in the day and PCE/TG-16 would have benefitted from a "killer" beat-em-up or two.

Where was our "Fighting Streets of Rage" techno-dance infused beat-em-up?

Sadly, even if the TG-16 managed to have a few "killer" titles in the popular genres of the time, I don't think it would have had enough momentum to compete with Sega and Nintendo. Even if TG-16 launched X-mas 1988...would it have been able to compete with NES?

NES was a juggernaut and I know I would have chosen to stick with NES over TG-16 simply because NES had an insanely awesome library of titles. Mega Man II (NES) stole the show in 1988! What would TG-16 offer us?

I hate to be pessimistic, but I don't think PCE/TG-16 would have been successful without a healthy serving of LUCK (a runaway success like Legendary Axe? Alien Crush?)

Check out Best PCE game released in 1988 and tell me if any title could compete with the superb titles on NES...

NOTE: Cooks became maudlin upon reading this post

Lol, most of the games on that list are shooters. Time only tell if the turbo was released a whole year earlier than the Genesis. Lets not forget that Nintendos hardcore licensing was a deterrent back then and even when the turbo was released in 89. Eliminate that deterrent, and we could have seen a much different system.

[FraGMarE]

If they would've released half the action games that they never gave us, we'd have been a bit more set than we were...

I put a few non action games in here too.  like Necromancer and Outlive.  Necromancer would've been a great US release.

Eternal City
Cyber Cross & Cross Wiber
Altered Beast
Final Blaster
Outlive
Necromancer
After Burner 2
OutRun (power drift too.  Its better anyways!)
Ninja Gaiden (who cares if it scrolls funny)
Schibibin Man
Raiden
SF2
Kyukyoku Tiger (I mean duhrrrr wtf)

there are more even.  The shooters would've done great.  and the rest helps round it out some.

Whoever picked what to bring over was a dumbfuck.

Raiden did get a US release, newblet.  But, yea, the rest of those games would have been awesome localized.

Hmm.  I think if they put out EVERYTHING, they would probably have come out worse than they did.  A lot of it wouldn't have sold too well, and the cost of manufacturing and making all those games to poor reception would have been high.

I think if they'd been a bit pickier about what they did release earlier on, it would have made the difference.  As it was, it never had the momentum.

QFT!  There was a lot of JapCrap that came out on the PCE over the years that would have made even more western gamers avoid the TG16.  If they had picked and chosen certain wonderful and impressive games to localize, it likely would have encouraged more third party support and would sort of self-perpetuate other great games being released.

[Turbotracks]

Agreed. Oversaturating the library would have had the opposite effect. Looking back we, of course, have the benefit of 20/20 vision. I think it would have been more of a benefit to us to have what is now our pick of the litter of PCE games localized than it would have benefitted sales numbers. Obviously having more quality software drives hardware sales, but the general public was so focused on spending their money on Mario or Sonic that there wasn't room in most wallets for a third system.

[VestCunt]

The barebones TG-16 unit needed to succeed pretty well by itself before we could ever talk about expansions like the CD-ROM.

Absolutely.  

The Turbo would not have done any better with more games.  The hucard library is sweet, but consoles really need a watershed, genre-defining game to catch on.  Something like SMB, which revolutionized platformer play control and forever standardized which button on a controller makes you jump... or Sonic with its jaw-dropping beautiful graphics and speed.  The PCE doesn't have a hucard like that.  It had Ys, but that was on CD and the technology was too much, too soon: kids couldn't afford CD players.  

In Japan, I get the impression that video games were already fairly mainstream entertainment in the 80's/90's, which meant that older people played them who could afford cutting-edge technology like CD video game players.  With the exception of the Neo Geo, video games in the States were regarded as toys until the Playstation came along, which doomed systems like the CD-ROM2 and 3DO until the technology got cheaper.

On a personal note, while I'd certainly love to have some more English games on the shelf in 2012, I never would have got into the TG16 had it been #1.  Had it been popular, it wouldn't have been discounted down to $99 and I wouldn't have been intrigued by a mysterious black console with library of hidden gems and diamonds in the rough.  Apparently I have a huge underdog complex.

I thought they already were in third.  Who are you counting in the third spot?  NeoGeo?  CDi?  32X?

NES was 3rd; TG was 4th.

[FraGMarE]

Honestly, I think Bonk's Revenge is pretty comparable to SMW or Sonic1 in overall quality for a platformer, but it didn't come out until later.  If Hudson had come out swinging and given Bonk1 the same super polished look and feel that Bonk's Revenge had and maybe some parallax for the graphics kiddies, it might have had more of a chance at being as popular as SMW or Sonic, imho.  I'm not saying Bonk1 is a bad game.  It's quite good... but Bonk's Revenge is *great*.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Oh, yeah, I guess it did come out for the turbob.  I forgot/didnt pay attention, since the game sucks.


What if Commander Keen had been put on the Turbob.  Hot damn.  Fuck Mario.

[Turbotracks]

As good as Bonk's Revenge was it didn't have that "hook" that set it apart from other platformers the way SMW had different moves, cape, Yoshi. The thing that set Sonic apart from the others was that it was so damn fast.

[nat]

As good as Bonk's Revenge was it didn't have that "hook" that set it apart from other platformers the way SMW had different moves, cape, Yoshi. The thing that set Sonic apart from the others was that it was so damn fast.

I disagree with this. Bonk certainly had a hook-- how many other platformers had characters running around bonking things, performing jump spins, head dives, etc? I can honestly say, as a kid back in those days, it certainly was appealing and interesting enough to me! I thought the Bonk premise was way more intriguing than a blue hedgehog that didn't really do anything at all except have "tude."

The REAL problem wasn't the nonexistence of a strong mascot character, it was a lack of focus and mis-marketing.

a) Bonk as a mascot was introduced too late. This didn't necessarily have to have been fatal, but it was, because:

b) NEC didn't have a strong advertising campaign backing Bonk. The day Bonk's Adventure was released, new TG-16s should have started shipping with Bonk in place of Keith Courage as the pack-in. There should have been a filibuster-style TV (and other media) ad campaign featuring Bonk and the TG-16 that started as soon as the game was released. This was an area that SEGA got right. I still, to this day, remember SEGA and Sonic commercials with that annoying but undeniably infectious "SEGA!" yell. I don't remember any TG-16 commercials, at all, and I actually owned the system at the time!

c) NEC didn't know what the fuck it was doing mascot-wise. NEC had no confidence in their own mascot; how could they expect consumers to? A year or so after Sonic, they decided Bonk wasn't good enough so they quietly switched him out for Zonk as the "official mascot" of the system. Sonic didn't really do anything except run fast but he had "tude" and he was outselling Bonk so NEC must have figured they needed their own mascot to do the same. Enter Zonk. Huge mistake, not that by this point there was anything they could have done to rectify the situation. What other success console actually had a mascot change MID-LIFE? This reeks of desperation, and by this time had any potential buyers been actually still paying attention, would've served as a huge deterrent.

What they failed to realize was Bonk was fine as a mascot, it was their marketing strategy (or lack thereof) that had issues. Only people that actually owned the system and were already familiar with the TG-16 even knew Bonk was the console mascot. Feeble and inadequate marketing created a situation where NEC's console didn't have a "face" in the eyes of potential buyers, but nobody could forget the "SEGA!" yell and that blue hedgehog that was always hanging around. Nintendo had it easiest, they didn't even need to do a damn thing. By 1990/1991 Mario games were selling themselves; he'd effectively established himself as the Nintendo mascot years earlier.

No, there is (was) nothing wrong with Bonk as the face of the TurboGrafx, but there was certainly something wrong with NEC.

[VestCunt]

Bonk had a "hook" and it was a great game, but it was released too late to be revolutionary the way Sonic and Mario were.  For all its great qualities, it's still a post-SMB platformer.

I totally disagree about the lack of the strong mascot.  They blew their chance for a good pack-in, but in all other respects NEC knew where their bread was buttered.

Fact is, NEC never had an advertising budget period, but their handful of TV commercials did all feature Bonk.
Just Bonk:

General TG16, with strong Bonk's Revenge represent:

These two don't have Bonk, but they seem to be from 1989 and predate him.
Blazing Lazers:

General TG16:

Turbografx ads aired in MN and, while only two kids in town had a Turbografx, all of the serious video gamers in 3rd grade knew who Bonk was.  Heck, I saw the commercials and I was homeschooled and barely watched TV.

Finally, Zonk can scarcely be called a change of mascot.  He was virtually a Bonk sequel.  Everybody knew that Zonk was simply a spin-off version of Bonk from the future with the exact same attitude.  Sure, TTI put Zonk on some ads, but half of those ads mentioned "Bonk."  And by the time Zonk came along in '92 they weren't abandoning Bonk - they were finally using him as the Turbo Duo pack-in!  And they were working on Bonk 3 and Bonk RPG.

Bonk was EGM game of the year in '91.  They had a guy in a Bonk suit at the CES.  Acemore had their Bonk head joystick.  Bonk games were covered in all three of the hint books and featured in most of the advertising.  He was synonymous with the TG16.  

[thesteve]

the TG16 was my second system purchase.
at the time I had a NES and had played 2600 and SMS.
the SMS shootie a friend had was better then anything i had on the NES and par some of my 2600 games.
i chose the TG16 at the time because its shooties were on par or better than the SMS ones and better than the NES ones.
As I see it NEC failed to market the system at all in my area (less than 1 week of advertizing).
i saw turbo ad's for only a few days, before they were replaced by SEGA ad's.

[soop]

Honestly, I think Bonk's Revenge is pretty comparable to SMW or Sonic1 in overall quality for a platformer, but it didn't come out until later.  If Hudson had come out swinging and given Bonk1 the same super polished look and feel that Bonk's Revenge had and maybe some parallax for the graphics kiddies, it might have had more of a chance at being as popular as SMW or Sonic, imho.  I'm not saying Bonk1 is a bad game.  It's quite good... but Bonk's Revenge is *great*.

I tend to agree.  Also, TG16 had a lot of print advertising.  I remember a really crappy 2 page cartoon (maybe more) about some moron with a beard, trying to bring out the "truth" that the Duo was the first CD console.  It smacked of desperation, and didn't actually mention how good the games were.  It was an epic failure.

[BigusSchmuck]

Honestly, I think Bonk's Revenge is pretty comparable to SMW or Sonic1 in overall quality for a platformer, but it didn't come out until later.  If Hudson had come out swinging and given Bonk1 the same super polished look and feel that Bonk's Revenge had and maybe some parallax for the graphics kiddies, it might have had more of a chance at being as popular as SMW or Sonic, imho.  I'm not saying Bonk1 is a bad game.  It's quite good... but Bonk's Revenge is *great*.

I tend to agree.  Also, TG16 had a lot of print advertising.  I remember a really crappy 2 page cartoon (maybe more) about some moron with a beard, trying to bring out the "truth" that the Duo was the first CD console.  It smacked of desperation, and didn't actually mention how good the games were.  It was an epic failure.

No kidding on the good games front. Seriously though, the competition (SegaCD) didn't have nearly as many good games as the Duo did.

[NecroPhile]

NES was 3rd; TG was 4th.

That's silly.  If the generation doesn't matter, then the Turbob gets 6th place.

1.  NES
2.  SNES
3.  Genesis
4.  2600
5.  Master System
6.  TG-16

[jlued686]

I tend to agree.  Also, TG16 had a lot of print advertising.  I remember a really crappy 2 page cartoon (maybe more) about some moron with a beard, trying to bring out the "truth" that the Duo was the first CD console.  It smacked of desperation, and didn't actually mention how good the games were.  It was an epic failure.

Johnny Turbo and his crusade against the dark forces of Feka!

Speaking of print ad cartoons, though, I remember the early ones for Bonk and Splatterhouse. Those were actually pretty cool and the Bonk one got me really interested in the Turbo.

[FraGMarE]

Sometimes I wonder if Legendary Axe should have been the pack-in until Bonk was released.  It's certainly a better game than either Keith Courage or Altered Beast.

[TurboXray]

What if Commander Keen had been put on the Turbob.

Heh, hopefully it wouldn't have been as is People would have laughed. Also, you really love that game serious - don't you? I remember when it came out and at first I thought it looked cool. But after playing it... I thought meh. Maybe if I was younger when it came out, I would have liked it.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Commander Keen as a whole is an amazing series, and the games are extremely well done and playable...  Especially when you consider what was done with it, and the fact it was programmed by one person.  Carmack did the engine himself.  Romero wrote the toolchain (map editors, etc).  Together they created a very smooth platformer with very nice controls and gameplay, complete with devious levels.   

At the time, there weren't any other DOS games that were as nice.  It was hailed as being better than Mario, and I actually agree.

If it were to have been on PCE, it would have had more colors obviously, due to being better than EGA... and I am sure it would have been fucking awesome.

Look at that!  It's better than some PCE platformers.

[esteban]

This is the one and only mascot for me:



Princess Za, motherf*ckers.

[Arkhan Asylum]

damn shes hot.

[Turbotracks]

What if Commander Keen had been put on the Turbob.

Heh, hopefully it wouldn't have been as is People would have laughed. Also, you really love that game serious - don't you? I remember when it came out and at first I thought it looked cool. But after playing it... I thought meh. Maybe if I was younger when it came out, I would have liked it.

Totally agree.  Still impressive considering it's history.

[thesteve]

port it

[Arkhan Asylum]

I'm not sure whats wrong with Commander Keen, really. 


It's better than alot of the crap that came out to compete, like Xargon and Jill of the Jungle.

Duke Nukem 1 was pretty lame too.  At least 2 was better.

[BigusSchmuck]

port it

Its something I intend to do as my first port along with Ultima ][

[Arkhan Asylum]

Damn. Straight.

we could easily take music from the later keens and put it in the first one.

[Nando]

Sports games, had the Turbo taken on EA, instead of EA having to hack a Genesis; then, I think, they would have come up to topple Sega. The US, had Nintendo neurologically and semantically imprinted into their brains. Nintendo IS KING NO MATTER WHAT YEARAGEBREFLAGBERGBASTER!!! and stuff.