What should my next Master System game be?

[VenomMacbeth]

Yup, here's another one.  I have a relatively small collection of Master System games.  They are:

Kenseiden
Master of Darkness
Outrun
Hang-On/Astro Warrior
Sagaia
Galaxy Force
Ecco the Dolphin
Sonic the Hedgehog

I also have a rather large list of games I want:

Fantasy Zone
Fantasy Zone II
Power Strike
Mortal Kombat
Mortal Kombat II
Road Rash
Bomber Raid
Shadow Dancer
Ninja Gaiden
Fire & Forget II
Chase HQ

To name a few.  So which game do you think I should get next?  It could be on the list, or not on the list.  Doesn't matter.  I'm just looking to expand my collection. 

[_Paul]

Wonder Boy. Srsly. That and Out Run were my most played games on the system.

[DragonmasterDan]

Alex Kidd in Miracle World

[Arkhan Asylum]

You dont have either Zillion game?

Double Dragon?

Cyborg Hunter?

cmon guy! get with it.

[PunkCryborg]

I have dupes of golvelius, rtype and double dragon all complete and would be interested in galaxy force and sagaia if you ever want to trade.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The SMS double dragon is superior to the NES one.

get them shits!

[VestCunt]

Yup, here's another one.  I have a relatively small collection of Master System games.  They are:

Kenseiden
Master of Darkness
Outrun
Hang-On/Astro Warrior
Sagaia
Galaxy Force
Ecco the Dolphin
Sonic the Hedgehog

I also have a rather large list of games I want:

Fantasy Zone
Fantasy Zone II
Power Strike
Mortal Kombat
Mortal Kombat II
Road Rash
Bomber Raid
Shadow Dancer
Ninja Gaiden
Fire & Forget II
Chase HQ

Nice games so far.
On your want list, I've played MKII and Ninja Gaiden and they're awesome. Shadow Dancer is a big disappointment.

FYI - Bomber Raid isn't compatible with Genesis controllers and it's hard to find SMS controllers with good D-pads these days.

Check out Mickey Mouse Land of Illusion. It's the best of the trilogy and is my favorite platformer on the system.

Time Soldiers is a good, cheap, two-player run-and-gun and a little less difficult than Rambo or Alien Syndrome.

You don't have any RPGs or puzzlers yet. Ys, Ultima, Golden Axe Warrior, Phantasy Star, and Miracle Warriors are all awesome. Columns is a good two-player.

Since you already have Outrun, I'd recommend one of the two-player, top-down racers like RC Grand Prix, Buggy Run, or Micro Machines instead of Chase HQ.

EDIT: Micro Machines and some other games don't work on the original SMS. There's a list of incompatibilities here:
http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12093&highlight=compatibility

Have fun!

[PCEngineHell]

If the goal is to buy good games, then forget MK1 and 2 on Master System. They are a mess. And I'd not bother with Road Rash either. Road Rash is floaty and the hit detection is weak. Probe handled it instead of EA, and its just crappy.

[VenomMacbeth]

I forgot to add to the list that I do have R-Type.  Awesome game.

I've played the first MK and Bomber Raid, and I like both. 

Anybody played Lord of the Sword?  It looks interesting, but I've heard bad things about it...

[VestCunt]

If the goal is to buy good games, then forget MK1 and 2 on Master System. They are a mess.

.
If you think those are bad, try MKIII. Absolutely horrific and unplayable on SMS.

Anybody played Lord of the Sword?  It looks interesting, but I've heard bad things about it...

It's like a clunky Zelda 2 without battery backup or a password system. Otherwise, it's not too bad.

[VenomMacbeth]

It's like a clunky Zelda 2 without battery backup or a password system. Otherwise, it's not too bad.

It certainly appears so.  Is it similar to Kenseiden?  I've been thoroughly enjoying that one (even with it's nut-punching difficulty -.-)

[VestCunt]

I like Kenseiden too. It's been a long time since I've played LotS, but yeah, the play control is fairly similar, IIRC. The exploration is non-linear in a Legacy of the Wizard/Metroid sort of way, but there's a very specific order you have to do the fetch questing. It makes for a lot of traipsing back and forth through the hard-as-nails stages. Pretty soon, your finite number of lives run out and I don't think there are any continues.

[GohanX]

I'd vote for Wonderboy in Monster Land or WB Dragons Trap. <3 Wonderboy.

[CrackTiger]

Judging by your tastes I'd recommend Wonderboy and Alex Kidd in Miracle World.

If you haven't played through Dragon's Curse for TG-16, you might wanna try the SMS version Wonderboy III. It's one of teh greatest games evAR.

[roflmao]

Shinobi.  It's a very good port considering the system.  Shinobi and After Burner were the reasons I got my SMS back in the day.  I played a ton out of them.

[kamiboy]

Wonderboy III: The Dragon's Trap.

That game is a 8-bit masterpiece and I am not saying that lightly. Without it your Master System collection is not so much incomplete as it is none existent.

[PunkCryborg]

Golvelius is a must own.
Lord of the Sword is ok but not too engaging.
Rastan is fun and a lot better then Rastan II.
Laser Ghost is so fucking cool you have to get it and a light gun NOW. It wasn't released here so you might have to get it from ebay uk or something but it is just so badass. I don't know why you never hear about it.
Wanted is another awesome light gun game.
Quartet is also pretty cool but the arcade version blows it away

[majors]

I'll 2nd R-Type and add Golden Axe to your "should buy next" list.

Damn, you got Master of Darkness and Sagaia already. Two awesome titles there. Power Strike is on your list already, another keeper.

I have dupes of golvelius, rtype and double dragon all complete

Get on this! DD and Golvellius are good. I was suprised how much I enjoyed Valley of Doom.

[Tatsujin]

Wonderboy III: The Dragon's Trap.

That game is a 8-bit masterpiece and I am not saying that lightly. Without it your Master System collection is not so much incomplete as it is none existent.

And also don't forget to get dragon's curse / adventure island on the TG16/PCE

[Tatsujin]

My ever fav SMS games:

Hang On (such an excellent game)
R-Type
Wonderboy in Monsterland
Wonder Boy III -  The Dragon's Trap
Fantasy Zone II
Aleste / Power Strike
Rastan Saga
Vigilante
Shinobi

[futureman2000]

Phantasy star 1 is one of my favorite games on any console. Dunno if it holds up without the nostalgia, though. But Wonderboy 3 is fantastic as well, and a must have if you don't have the turbo version.

[Tatsujin]

having both is even much better. especially when played on a jpn SMS/markIII (w/ FM unit) for the nice FM sound's sake alone.

[Arkhan Asylum]

CYBORG HUNTER.

FUCK.

also, Dragon Crystal is pretty tits

and Ultima IV

and the Zillion games

[kamiboy]

Phantasy star 1 is one of my favorite games on any console. Dunno if it holds up without the nostalgia

It doesn't, I played it for the first time last year and it is rubbish in my opinion. Perfectly encapsulates all the reasons why over the years I have come to find the RPG genre so intolerable.

[Arkhan Asylum]

It doesn't, I played it for the first time last year and it is rubbish in my opinion. Perfectly encapsulates all the reasons why over the years I have come to find the RPG genre so intolerable.

First person dungeons, smoothly animated.

Space ships.

Chicks.

Cats in your party.

Dragons.

Whats probrem.

[Tatsujin]

Damn, Galaxy Force had the best FM ever heard on any 8-bitter. even 10x better than the frowsy mega Drive version.

[kamiboy]

First person dungeons, smoothly animated.

Space ships.

Chicks.

Cats in your party.

Dragons.

Whats probrem.

Same problem as with almost every other tabletop template RPG really, trite, uninspired awfully designed, none engaging gameplay.

Press X to win for 30-150 hours. At least the original Final Fantasy broke up all those pressings of X with the occasional "pay a little attention now" boss battle every few hours or so. As someone who appreciates good game design playing an RPG is like going to work, only there is no paycheck to prevent suicide at the end.

As for the first person dungeon parts, those are actually my vision of hell. No christian visions of imps eternally poking your balls with triforks for me, no sir, to me hell is being stuck in an endless drab labyrinth of uniform square corridors.

Then again my longstanding impression of RPG fans has been that they play those types of games for reasons not relating to gameplay. Only to my mind that is a loony proposition.

[PunkCryborg]

I'd do other trades BTW if you are looking for those, just hit me up sometime.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Same problem as with almost every other tabletop template RPG really, trite, uninspired awfully designed, none engaging gameplay.

Press X to win for 30-150 hours. At least the original Final Fantasy broke up all those pressings of X with the occasional "pay a little attention now" boss battle every few hours or so. As someone who appreciates good game design playing an RPG is like going to work, only there is no paycheck to prevent suicide at the end.

As for the first person dungeon parts, those are actually my vision of hell. No christian visions of imps eternally poking your balls with triforks for me, no sir, to me hell is being stuck in an endless drab labyrinth of uniform square corridors.

Then again my longstanding impression of RPG fans has been that they play those types of games for reasons not relating to gameplay. Only to my mind that is a loony proposition.

All I got out of this is "Hello, I have no imagination".

You're like that kid that plays D&D for the dice rolling combat portions, and complains when anything else is happening.

'WHO CARES ABOUT THIS STUPID NPC LETS JUST KILL SHIT IVE GOT AN AXE LETS GO"


What's wrong with the gameplay?  You're adventuring around, piecing together a great story.  Would you rather it cut to a Marioesque style game every time you walk out of a town? lol

[VestCunt]

Same problem as with almost every other tabletop template RPG really, trite, uninspired awfully designed, none engaging gameplay.

Press X to win for 30-150 hours.

I hear what you're saying and I make fun of the ChronoTrigger/FF7 kids for the same reasons. Part of it's nostalgia, but I'm more sympathetic with older games like PS even though the style is the same. BITD, there were only a handful of games like this and after countless hours of testing my reflexes on the standard fare, JRPGs were a nice change of pace.

Finally, before you throw all RPG's in the same waste bin, it's really important to make a distinction between JRPGs and the old computer-based westerns. The graph-paper-mapping, non-linear-problem-solving Might & Magic/Ultima/Wizardry diehards are nothing like the kids who disappear into their parents' basement with Final Fantasy for two weeks and press "X" to beat the game.

[DragonmasterDan]

Same problem as with almost every other tabletop template RPG really, trite, uninspired awfully designed, none engaging gameplay.

Press X to win for 30-150 hours. At least the original Final Fantasy broke up all those pressings of X with the occasional "pay a little attention now" boss battle every few hours or so. As someone who appreciates good game design playing an RPG is like going to work, only there is no paycheck to prevent suicide at the end.

As for the first person dungeon parts, those are actually my vision of hell. No christian visions of imps eternally poking your balls with triforks for me, no sir, to me hell is being stuck in an endless drab labyrinth of uniform square corridors.

Then again my longstanding impression of RPG fans has been that they play those types of games for reasons not relating to gameplay. Only to my mind that is a loony proposition.

I like games that have elements of exploring involved, what made Phantasy Star fun, or Dragon Warrior fun was running around the map, finding items and weird things. Those games are a lot of fun because you explore by yourself. Now if you're using a guide or an FAQ a lot of the fun is taken out when you know exactly where you need to go. The gameplay of running around and having to figure out where to go next (not just in RPGs but in games like Metroid or Zelda) is part of the fun.

[Samurai Ghost]

Been on a bit of a Master System collecting kick myself these days. I'd definitely pick up Phantasy Star. Yes, you do have to grind for levels in a few areas, but if you just grind at two points in the game you can breeze through the rest without much difficulty. To me it's one of the few 8 bit RPGs that really stand the test of time. Unique characters and setting, amazing music, and the graphics and animation are still impressive to me. The 3D dungeons look amazing. I play through Phantasy Star every few years and it's a joy each time I do. To me it's a must-own for the system.

[Keranu]

Get Mortem Kombat.

[majors]

My ever fav SMS games:

Hang On (such an excellent game)

I like this guy! Hang-on was the most played cart on my SMS in my younger days. R-Type and PS were a close second.

Talking Phantasy Star, I think it was the ONLY console RPG I ever beat. I hated "fantasy" style ones like Dragon, Final and Ultima back then.

[Arkhan Asylum]

So does everyone else not like Cyborg Hunter?

[futureman2000]

I don't particularly like Cyborg Hunter, but maybe I didn't give it a fair shot. What do you like about it?

[Arkhan Asylum]

I particularly like the map up top, as it makes me feel like I am the character.

I also like the theme in general, and the Zillion-esque maze style of the levels.

The challenge is also very good, and the controls don't suck.  

Even the non FM music is pretty good.

I dunno, the whole thing is just really fun.


it also vaguely reminds me of this game Relics for MSX in game style.  That was an exceptional (and underrated) game.

[Samurai Ghost]

So does everyone else not like Cyborg Hunter?

Never played it but almost bought a copy the other day for the cover art alone. "Fuck you robot, imma shoot you in your cold robo-heart!!"

[roflmao]

Never played it but almost bought a copy the other day for the cover art alone. "Fuck you robot, imma shoot you in your cold robo-heart!!"

Yeah!  I've never even heard of the game before today, but man that cover art is awesome!

[DragonmasterDan]

Never played it but almost bought a copy the other day for the cover art alone. "Fuck you robot, imma shoot you in your cold robo-heart!!"

The cover looks like a late 70s to early 80s Hair Band album cover.

[Arkhan Asylum]

It's an excellent game, really.


My copy is in the black box.  I think that version with the white background was a UK thing maybe.

[Samurai Ghost]

It's an excellent game, really.


My copy is in the black box.  I think that version with the white background was a UK thing maybe.

Yeah I like the black box version a bit better but it kind of looks more like a Genesis game in that way.

[jeffhlewis]

My faves from the childhood days:

-Outrun (probably my most played game; really good conversion given the system's limits)
-Shinobi
-Phantasy Star
-Wonderboy in Monster Land
-Wonderboy III (in hindsight, probably the best game for the system)
-Shooting Gallery (really fun lightgun shooter; kind of like a poor man's Point Blank)
-Rampage (really good port of the arcade game)

As far as PAL games go - definitely pick up Master of Darkness; it's awesome.

One that I don't see mentioned a lot is Spellcaster (Kujaku Ō in Japan; its sequel Kujaku Ō 2 was released on the Genny as Mystic Defender). It's a really weird and fun Japanese action/adventure game. I have no idea why they decided to translate it and bring it out in English-speaking markets but I'm glad they did!

[kamiboy]

All I got out of this is "Hello, I have no imagination".

You're like that kid that plays D&D for the dice rolling combat portions, and complains when anything else is happening.

'WHO CARES ABOUT THIS STUPID NPC LETS JUST KILL SHIT IVE GOT AN AXE LETS GO"


What's wrong with the gameplay?  You're adventuring around, piecing together a great story.  Would you rather it cut to a Marioesque style game every time you walk out of a town? lol

I am not that kid that plays D&D, period. I am that kid that plays video games because of that medium's rules and mechanics based nature. I certainly take no interest in video games for the sake of alien, unwelcome and tumorous concepts like narrative being ham fistedly forced into them by people who would rather write novels or direct movies but are too untalented to ever succeed in those fields. The very same people who then proceed to view this medium as ripe for sullying in a misguided attempt to realize their unfulfilled ambitions by proxy.

It certainly doesn't help that a bunch of kids and man-children who don't know any better actually praise these subpar efforts and hold them in high esteem, usually while being high on a powerful cocktail of nostalgia and ignorance.

Of course this only prompts esteemed critics of the mediums being ever so poorly imitated to then proceed to misunderstand what this medium is actually really about at the core thus claiming that games can never attain the lofty status of being regarded as an equal peer to the much more noble blue blooded mediums of film and literature, no sir.

The deuce you say mister critic, of course games wont ever be able do that, that is and never was their purpose, the comparison alone is farcical. This medium has a set of completely different goals and success criteria than those other narrative based mediums and these goals are all related to the origin of the medium's name, "game", something that you play.

But then let us take a shallow gander at the so called game mechanics behind a large subset of the RPG genre. Rip open the thin veneer and therein lies exposed the ugly hunchbacked form of the problem itself. There at the core is a tabletop game inside and at the core of almost every video game RPG.

When you exercise your sole interactive privilege within the combat system of Phantasy Star and games of its ilk by picking that "Fight" option over and over again, what you are actually doing is participating in a virtual abstraction of a tabletop dice roll.

You choose a menu command to roll a dice and see how much damage you did. That is just about as engaging as pushing the play button on a slot machine to see how much money you won.

It is this chicken brained, straight faced translation of mechanics made purposefully simple so as to be a playable tabletop activity for a group of humans using pen and paper over to the powerful computer with its infinite more possibilities that is at the rotten heart of this genre. That very same rotten heart which would give me infinite pleasure to rip out and shit upon.

RPG's were off to a lobotomized brain dead start and lo, thirty odd years later I struggle to count on one hand the number of computer RPG's that actually take the philosophical concept of the tabletop experience, the concept of adventuring, the sole element that actually made it fun, and try to implement this divorced of its simple tabletop derived implementation in order to instead take full advantage of the starkly different competencies of the video game medium as opposed to the limitations of the tabletop medium.

RPG's like Demon's and Dark Souls are true video game takes on the concept of fantasy adventuring in this medium.

Unfortunately such titles count for sub 1% of the genre. The rest is a miasma of nostalgic tabletop derived wank material that I do not deem fit for wiping my ass with let alone play.

What would you get if you hacked the program of most menu based RPGs to realize the following rule:

When an encounter is about to be triggered, run a sequence of quick simulations of the current party fighting these enemies by just picking the "Fight" option for a few rounds. If one average the fight can easily be won by doing this then skip the fight and instead add the experience that would have been won to the party. What you would get is many an hour of walking around without anything happening. Is this really good game design? No, it is a farce, a farce that should have ended over 30 years ago.

They can keep their ham fisted narrative too. In my decades long attempt to dissect this decadent medium I've played dozens of its offerings and not even under pain of torture could I recall a single morsel of the many cliched trite plots being forced down my throat by way of dense, unnecessary and utterly clumsy forced exposition.

Upon completion all memory of it is all gone like the intolerable stench of passed flatulence. Which is funny because I can recall in detail the plots of any favored novel that I've read, even years after having completed them.

So why do I keep coming back to genre? Because of its potential, the potential for passively established atmosphere, large worlds to explore at whim and deep, deep, deep rewarding mechanics that will take tens, hundreds of hours to master fully and offers fun, fun, fun.

After decades of all that potential being wasted on moving forward on tabletop grid like maze of corridors underground and pressing X to roll dices there finally was two people in the game design world that got it and realized the potential.

Yasumi Matsuno and Hidetaka Miyazaki, I wish I could carve your likeness upon a mountain side and worship you, you gods of gaming.

[roflmao]

Kamiboy, I am thankful you are a member here in the forums.  Your thoughtful, well articulated posts (like the one above) are a step above all the newbies that join just for the sake of completing  their collection.  It's great when new members come here and post intellectually stimulating responses such as you did.

I can see where you're coming from, however, I think your response is flawed, and here's why.  If one was to attempt to play an rpg via video game (be it console or PC), the game (at least in this day and age) just isn't capable of thinking on the fly.  Real life, face-to-face RPGs aren't about combat.  That's often a major part of the game, but the true intent of a role playing game is the ROLE PLAYING.  A gamemaster/dungeon master can plan a campaign all they want, but the players ultimately control the storymaking just as much as the GM/DM.  A good GM/DM can come up with something on the fly, either to go in a new unexpected direction or to drive the players back to the pre-planned story.  That isn't an option in a computer/console rpg.  Therefore, most computer/console rpgs have shifted their focus to some of the more constant/familiar elements of an RPG, such as combat, rather than storyline development.  This is the case with most Japanese console RPGs.  And as RPG gamers, we have recoginzed and accepted that.  Most JRPGS have a completely incomprehensible storyline, but they are still all sorts of fun.

I was about to go onto Western RPGs, such as Skyrim and the other Elder Scroll games being more open ended, but it's getting late and I didn't have a clear point, so I'm cutting it.   

I just think that there is merit to accepting and appreciating console RPGs for what they have been for the past couple of decades, even though they can't truly emulate a real RPG.  They are a related, but separate beast.  And many of us love having that diversity.

[VestCunt]

Your thoughtful, well articulated posts (like the one above) are a step above all the newbies that join just for the sake of completing  their collection.

I can't tell if you're being facetious. A little vocabulary is nice, but what concision? Or hyphens? Or avoiding pretentious language? I'm surprised he didn't jam "nascent" or "mise en scène" somewhere in the diatribe. Also remember that Kami's thousand-word essay is responding to a four-sentence "lol" quip from Arkhan.

So, what we have is a PS3/FinalFantasy fanboy snatching up his "minty Duo" is because retro gaming is apparently popular. Rather than recognizing classic RPGs as the elemental building blocks on which is beloved Dark Souls is built, he writes off the first thirty years of an entire genre as primitive bullshit unfit for even wiping his ass. 

RPG's like Demon's and Dark Souls are true video game takes on the concept of fantasy adventuring in this medium.

Unfortunately such titles count for sub 1% of the genre. The rest is a miasma of nostalgic tabletop derived wank material that I do not deem fit for wiping my ass with let alone play.

Great, well-articulated response!

[Arkhan Asylum]

I am not that kid that plays D&D, period. I am that kid that plays video games because of that medium's rules and mechanics based nature.

Pen and paper RPGs have rules and mechanics.  it's what separates RIFTs from D&D.  duhr   You're missing out.

I certainly take no interest in video games for the sake of alien, unwelcome and tumorous concepts like narrative being ham fistedly forced into them by people who would rather write novels or direct movies but are too untalented to ever succeed in those fields. The very same people who then proceed to view this medium as ripe for sullying in a misguided attempt to realize their unfulfilled ambitions by proxy.

Pompous much?  These games were designed so that people who enjoy adventure, exploration, problem solving, and fantasy worlds can enjoy the concept by themselves.  Not everyone has access to a group for D&D.  Games like Ultima, Might and Magic, Bards Tale, etc. all allow for a single person to embark on countless adventures.

Not to mention, games like this have very complex mechanics.  Ever play Wasteland?  It's not a simple game.

Mario is simple by comparison.  You just jump and dodge crap.  That's it.  You could sit and whittle a game like Mario down into some awful, misguided attempt like you are doing with RPGs.  It doesn't make it right.  Peppering it with big words and university-style phrasing doesn't help either.

It certainly doesn't help that a bunch of kids and man-children who don't know any better actually praise these subpar efforts and hold them in high esteem, usually while being high on a powerful cocktail of nostalgia and ignorance.

I know far better, yet I still praise the efforts of games like Ultima and Wizardry.  It ain't nostalgia.  I was born in 88.  This shit was old news by the time I got to it...And it sure as shit ain't ignorance.  I think it's the exact opposite.

Of course this only prompts esteemed critics of the mediums being ever so poorly imitated to then proceed to misunderstand what this medium is actually really about at the core thus claiming that games can never attain the lofty status of being regarded as an equal peer to the much more noble blue blooded mediums of film and literature, no sir.

Wait, are you talking about yourself here?

The deuce you say mister critic, of course games wont ever be able do that, that is and never was their purpose, the comparison alone is farcical. This medium has a set of completely different goals and success criteria than those other narrative based mediums and these goals are all related to the origin of the medium's name, "game", something that you play.

This made me lol. 

But then let us take a shallow gander at the so called game mechanics behind a large subset of the RPG genre. Rip open the thin veneer and therein lies exposed the ugly hunchbacked form of the problem itself. There at the core is a tabletop game inside and at the core of almost every video game RPG.

This shows YOUR ignorance to the matter.  D&D is a far more complex game than you let on.  There is no tabletop RPG behind Phantasy Star and the like.   It's some fairly cut/dry numerical comparisons, that is it. 

You don't seem too well versed in tabletop games.  This makes your Tolstoy-esque complaining very funny.

When you exercise your sole interactive privilege within the combat system of Phantasy Star and games of its ilk by picking that "Fight" option over and over again, what you are actually doing is participating in a virtual abstraction of a tabletop dice roll.

Yes, because spells and items never come into play.  It's all about fight fight fight.

You choose a menu command to roll a dice and see how much damage you did. That is just about as engaging as pushing the play button on a slot machine to see how much money you won.

Quit exaggerating.

It is this chicken brained, straight faced translation of mechanics made purposefully simple so as to be a playable tabletop activity for a group of humans using pen and paper over to the powerful computer with its infinite more possibilities that is at the rotten heart of this genre. That very same rotten heart which would give me infinite pleasure to rip out and shit upon.

You are aware that pen and paper RPGs (the ones you admitted you don't play), are not simple.  That's why dorks play them.  Your average doof doesn't want to sit and figure out how to play them.

Your average RIFTs character sheet has more shit going on than any computer game.  You keep making it sound like they took some mindless, simplistic paper based game and turned it into a video game.

RPG's were off to a lobotomized brain dead start and lo, thirty odd years later I struggle to count on one hand the number of computer RPG's that actually take the philosophical concept of the tabletop experience, the concept of adventuring, the sole element that actually made it fun, and try to implement this divorced of its simple tabletop derived implementation in order to instead take full advantage of the starkly different competencies of the video game medium as opposed to the limitations of the tabletop medium.

"Hi, I'm clueless", says you.

Yes, the computer is (was) infinitely more capable of pen and paper RPGs.  Totally.

That's why the Goldbox games were dumbed down versions of AD&D.   The computer could do far better than dozens of books worth of possibilities, and detailed mechanics.    Definitely.  That's why the goldbox games lacked entire classes, and the games often had to refer to external materials.

Unfortunately such titles count for sub 1% of the genre. The rest is a miasma of nostalgic tabletop derived wank material that I do not deem fit for wiping my ass with let alone play.

You've never played World of Xeen, Ultima V, Wizardry 7, or Legacy of the Ancients then.

What would you get if you hacked the program of most menu based RPGs to realize the following rule:

When an encounter is about to be triggered, run a sequence of quick simulations of the current party fighting these enemies by just picking the "Fight" option for a few rounds. If one average the fight can easily be won by doing this then skip the fight and instead add the experience that would have been won to the party. What you would get is many an hour of walking around without anything happening. Is this really good game design? No, it is a farce, a farce that should have ended over 30 years ago.

"most menu based RPGs"

Yes, do that in Wizardry once you've gotten down past the 3rd or 4th level.   And then, go do it in Might and Magic 1 or 2 for PC.  I'm sure it will go splendid.

Try it in Bards Tale, and witness yourself being fucking mauled because your dickhead simulation doesn't use any spells.  Try it in Demons Winter, or Eternal Dagger.  You'll get faceraped faster than you can say "wank material".

They can keep their ham fisted narrative too. In my decades long attempt to dissect this decadent medium I've played dozens of its offerings and not even under pain of torture could I recall a single morsel of the many cliched trite plots being forced down my throat by way of dense, unnecessary and utterly clumsy forced exposition.

How is Ultima's lengthy saga a cliche?  How about World of Xeen?  I don't recall any stories about the Avatar elsewhere, and I certainly don't remember reading about a double-sided world being ravaged by two different jackasses almost simulatenously, complete with all the other plot-devices.

Upon completion all memory of it is all gone like the intolerable stench of passed flatulence. Which is funny because I can recall in detail the plots of any favored novel that I've read, even years after having completed them.

You might be the only person who compares CRPGs to novels.   There is a reason for this, and it's not a good one for you.

So why do I keep coming back to genre? Because of its potential, the potential for passively established atmosphere, large worlds to explore at whim and deep, deep, deep rewarding mechanics that will take tens, hundreds of hours to master fully and offers fun, fun, fun.

After decades of all that potential being wasted on moving forward on tabletop grid like maze of corridors underground and pressing X to roll dices there finally was two people in the game design world that got it and realized the potential.

Play Knights of Legend.  It'll keep you beating off to mechanics and exploration for hours on end.


I think before you go on some rant about how much you hate CRPGs, you should have more experience with them and the pen&paper games you compare them to.  All you sound like is some crybaby bookworm with a large vocabulary that got slaughtered 10 tiles from the stairs in Wizardry 1 back in the 80s, and never tried the games again.

[NecroPhile]

I hate shmups!  All you do is fly around and shoot things, over and over and over again.  How trite!

Such simplistic bullshit works for any genre, really.  If you want to ignore that using certain spells or items (i.e. - ice on a balrog) makes a big difference in many RPGs or grind away 'til your butterknife can slay any beast, that's your problem.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Such simplistic bullshit works for any genre, really.  If you want to ignore that using certain spells or items (i.e. - ice on a balrog) makes a big difference in many RPGs or grind away 'til your butterknife can slay any beast, that's your problem.

Yeah, you can turbo-fight your way thru Wizardry using all fighter-types, but its sure a hell of a lot easier to have you some wizardsluts in the backrow, bringin the noise.

I think the ONLY rpg I can think of that you can lolfight through is CF2, but the characters, music, story, and all of that more than make up for the gooned up combat.

though, I hear some people think CF2 is some trite, cliched bullshit not worthy of experiencing.


I can't even imagine getting through a game like Pool of Radiance without magic users.


Those large scale hobgoblin battles and barfights sure do suck donkeydick when you can't fireball the room, or intoxicate/1 hit kill shit.

But hey, that's dumbed down and stupid! 

[Samurai Ghost]

CRPGs are great if only for the fact that they free you from interacting directly with the people who play tabletop RPGs.