New 486 PC

[HercTNT]

I have wanted to build a 486 pc similar to what i owned 16 years ago for a long time. I can say i now have just that. I recently built the following:
amd 5x86 155, 128megs of edo ram, shuttle hot-433 motherboard, stb lightspeed 128 video card, sound blaster awe32 with 8meg of ram, 8gb disk on module hard drive,  win95 osr2. it has taken me six months to slowly put together the parts i needed to make this machine do what i want. it has been a very long time since i have built and old at machine. I ask that any other enthusiast chime in on their setups and tips and tweaks. Please help me make this the best it can be. so far i have about 15 dos games installed and all working in win95. anyone needing any info on how to setup a classic gaming machine, dont be afraid to ask, i will help any way i can. unfortunately this machine is not fast enough to play pce games.................its only drawback

[CGQuarterly]

That's awesome, man.  I have a DOS machine set up at all times, as well.  Used to be a 486 DX4/100 but I upgraded it to a P90.  I forgot the amount of RAM, but either 32 or 64 megs.  I believe it has a 2 gb hard drive.  I don't know what the video card is, as it's just an old seemingly generic ISA card, but I'd like to replace it.  The cherry on top though is my Gravis Ultrasound card.  I had to mow a lot of lawns when I was a teenager to buy my first GUS, but it was worth it. 

Chris

[Mishran]

Brings back memories of my first "real" gaming pc, which I bought back in '93. A Packard Bell 486SX/33 upgraded to a DX/66, 4MB of RAM upgraded to 64MB, 2X CD-ROM, and a 320MB hard drive which was later replaced with a 6.4GB. Played a shit ton of Ultima and Doom on that machine. Finally went to the ol' recycle bin in the sky in '03. Been DOSBOXing ever since... just isn't the same.

[PCEngineHell]

You'd prob be in awe at all the old hardware I have, and the builds I use. Give me some time, a day or two, and I will do a better post here that may give you some ideas.

[GohanX]

486 is a little too old school for me, but I did build a PC a few years back specifically to run Wing Commander Privateer since I couldn't get it to run on my normal PC. It had a Cyrix 686 MX and an Awe 64 in it, shit was pimp

I just got to thinking, "a few years back" was...like... 2000 or so. Getting old.

[PCEngineHell]

I dont know if you care to spend the money, but the Awe64 does have a tad better sound quality then the AWE32. Up here in my room I have that Gateway 2000 tower that uses a Awe32 and a Pentium 100mhz cpu and a Dos install. I think the graphics card is a S3 or Matrox Pci card, don't remember which. If all you planned to run is Dos games a straight Dos install might suit you better then Windows 95, but I don't know what all you plan to run. My other Dos system is a dual boot Dos/Windows 98 build. Specs are:
AMD K6-III @ 400 mhz
Epox SS7 motherboard EP-MPV3G2
AWE64 soundcard
3DFX Banshee AGP
256 megs ram
two Quantum Fireball hard drives (one for Dos, one for Win98)
DVD drive
350 watt psu
Chen Ming ATX-103B case modified (perfect cut) to have a air intake area at the top for a 80mm fan

/DSCN5012.jpg
/DSCN5046.jpg

Most of my Dos gaming is really handled by this system, since its basically fast enough to handle all the later more demanding Dos titles like Quake or Chasm: The Rift just fine. Really though I have a lot of decent boxes in my parts storage area, like a complete Packard Bell Pentium 150 tower. Also have a few empty AT cases, probably about 25 different ISA sound cards, normal cases, motherboards, etc. The only stuff I don't have is old 486 and prior, as I wont use anything slower then a Pentium 1, and most 486 and prior I come across the motherboards are ruined from leaky batteries.

EDIT: here is the info on my large Pentium 100 Gateway tower.
Pentium 100mhz
S3Trio64 Pci
Creative Awe 32
Seagate 1.2 gb harddrive
plain jane cd-rom drive
64 megs ram
150 watt psu (I think???)
(shot of lower area of the inside, since I needed to pop it open and do some work on it, swapping out case fans, etc)

/DSCN3191.jpg

[SignOfZeta]

Dang. A 486 with 128MB of RAM?  Back in the day that was basically unheard of. Even Win 95 only needed, what, 16MB?

The first time I remember someone getting a computer with 64MB of RAM it was a Pentium Pro, years after 486s were dumpster fodder.

[PCEngineHell]

Dang. A 486 with 128MB of RAM?  Back in the day that was basically unheard of. Even Win 95 only needed, what, 16MB?

The first time I remember someone getting a computer with 64MB of RAM it was a Pentium Pro, years after 486s were dumpster fodder.

Yeah you can get by in Windows 95 with 16 megs of ram, but only with the early stuff. Game wise if you set up your config and autoexec files well for your Dos mode 16 megs will carry you pretty well too for the most part until you start running the more demanding Dos games.

[HercTNT]

Believe it or not the board supports 256 megs of ram. The 128 i got in there now is overkill as it is. Professer, that's a beauty of a collection you got there. I used to collect old machines like that, but no longer have the space. I still cry to this day getting rid of my DFI super socket 7 rig with a mobile k63+ overclocked to 600mhz.
As far as the sound card goes, i'm aware that the awe64 has better sound. The awe32 crackles and pops at times. The awe32 however does all of its audio processing in hardware as the awe64 does not. The awe32 frees up alot of cpu power and it makes a huge difference. The 8gig disk on module also makes for crazy fast load times.

Using windows 95 as a dos gaming platform is working out very well. however i'm not very good with configuring said games for max compatibility. i'm having problems with not having enough dos memory for digital effects in games or sound at all. Prefessor if you have some great tips on setting up win95 for best possible dos gaming, i'm all ears.

[PCEngineHell]

Believe it or not the board supports 256 megs of ram. The 128 i got in there now is overkill as it is. Professer, that's a beauty of a collection you got there. I used to collect old machines like that, but no longer have the space. I still cry to this day getting rid of my DFI super socket 7 rig with a mobile k63+ overclocked to 600mhz.
As far as the sound card goes, i'm aware that the awe64 has better sound. The awe32 crackles and pops at times. The awe32 however does all of its audio processing in hardware as the awe64 does not. The awe32 frees up alot of cpu power and it makes a huge difference. The 8gig disk on module also makes for crazy fast load times.

Using windows 95 as a dos gaming platform is working out very well. however i'm not very good with configuring said games for max compatibility. i'm having problems with not having enough dos memory for digital effects in games or sound at all. Prefessor if you have some great tips on setting up win95 for best possible dos gaming, i'm all ears.

Send me your email address via pm, and I will send you a decent starter set of config and autoexec files, along with cd-drive and mouse dos drivers. You might have to reinstall the sound card, or you can edit in the needed soundblaster text onto the autoexec file. At any rate the set I have should help you free up memory for Dos mode when you exit out of Win95. I've been able to squeeze out/free up about 610k out of the 640 on average. Just depends on the sound card being used.

[HercTNT]

you got it, incoming. my next step is to find a tseng labs et6100 video card.

[kamiboy]

I was going to do this but then my employing company started throwing out old computer hardware by the truckloads and I managed to save a Pentium II PC, and spare parts from another identical unit and took them home.

I also put a Pentium 100 on my desk, it is next to me now, but I don't need it.

Only thing I could wish for is to find a way to pack vintage PC hardware in a tiny, tiny enclosure so that they are not so intrusive and bulky.

[Opethian]

lol I have that same monitor:

[PCEngineHell]

Lol yeah I got mine for like 2 bucks. It looked new, used very little so I jumped on it. I had been wanting to pack away my larger Sony Vga for awhile now so I could use a flat top case for my Super Socket 7 build. The Sony would have been way way too heavy to place on the computer.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I have that monitor also, lol.

[BigusSchmuck]

Still got a bunch of Pentium 3s and old Celerons at my work if anyone is interested. We are trying to figure out how we are going to get rid of them considering there is about 50 custom built pcs all together.

[SNKNostalgia]

I am confused here a little when it comes to DOS games. When I use to play some DOS games on my Pentium 2 400mhz (later upgraded to Pentium 3 1ghz), 128MB (later 256MB), ATI Rage Pro 8MB (later ATI Radeon 64MB), Turtle Beach Montego 64 (does full Soundblaster 16 emulation), 10GB HDD, all running on Win 98 SE... I would have compatibility problems or games like X-Com UFO Defense run too fast.

So having too fast of a computer or using Win98 instead of Win95 cause the problems. What gives?!?!

What is the most modern set-up for playing games perfectly ranging from Wolf 3D up to most 1996-97 games?

[SuperDeadite]

A lot of older games are timed by clock speed only.  Meaning it runs as fast as your CPU does, especially common with most 386 and older era games.  So yes a Pentium 3 is going to cause problems.  There are software programs that will slowdown a faster system to help such games.  A few odd-ball computers like FM Towns had a built in bios function to slow it down for compatibility, but this is quite rare in the "normal pc" world.

[SNKNostalgia]

I figured that would be the case with games like X-com running too fast. The collection version of X-com had a program called MoSlo.exe and you had to adjust the percentage in the command line. Still, the game would run choppy and just didn't feel right.

Funny how I went from a 386sx 16mhz to a Pentium II 400mhz from 1991 then 1998. I missed out big time with 486DX and Pentium 1, which was the golden age of 2D PC gaming. I especially remember some greats from '96 and up: Doom 1 and 2, Heretic, X-Wing + Tie Fighter, Dark Forces, Lucas Arts Games (Sam and Max, Full Throttle, The Dig, etc...), some newer Sierra Adventure games, Dark Seed, and most importantly Wing Commander 3.

Thank god I had a PlayStation 1 and was able to play Wing Commander 3+4, Dark Forces, Rebel Assault 2, X-Com UFO Defense, command and conquer games and a decent version of Doom 1+2 combined. Still, I missed out on a lot of good PC games overall.

DOSBox just doesn't work all too well for quite a few games. They can't seem to get the Cycle CPU timing right and there really isn't a smooth Direct X support for the VESA DOS type graphics (Is that right... VESA is the DOS video processing method?). FPS games run shotty as hell and the FMV in Wing Commander 3 skips if you don't constantly adjust the Cycle speed between it and the gameplay.

[kamiboy]

to me the golden age of PC games was the late 80's to early 90's. My Pentium II (or is it III?) setup runs all my favourites from that era without problem.

Lemmings, Dune, Dune 2, Another World, WolfenStein/DooM, etc.

[BlueBMW]

The most troublesome DOS game that I absolutely love is Wing Commander Privateer 2: The Darkening.... it needs a higher end DOS machine to run, so its tricky to get to work in DOSbox.  But once its going, its excellent!  I mean cmon, it has Clive Owen AND Walken in it!

[roflmao]

Most of the old PC games I really got into still play relatively well on relatively current computers (though I haven't played hardly any of them since I upgraded to Windows 7).  The Sierra Quest games, Civilization, Nethack, Dungeon Master, Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale. 

One game I really miss was the original Mechwarrior.  I loved being able to haggle over jobs and thought the simulation was done really well (I was like 15 at the time).  That's one game I've had a hard time getting to run on newer hardware.  I also really miss BBS door games like TW2002 and Legend of the Red Dragon.  I know you can telnet to BBS's now and still play them, but the communities aren't the same. 

The oldest computer I currently own is a P4 with Windows XP on it, so it's hardly old-school. You guys are making me think about putting together an oldie again.  The first computer I built was a 386sx 33mhz.  I think it was about the time DOS 6 came out.  I remember thinking it was crazy having an operating system take up a whopping 6MB and considered switching to DrDOS.

[HercTNT]

Wing commander is excellent!!. currently i'm playing warcraft 2, halloween harry, blood (one of the best shooters ever), tryian 2000, simcity 2000, and with professors help hopefully i will get dungeon hack going well.

My kids love marios game gallery......you got any bob-ombs????????

[PCEngineHell]

So having too fast of a computer or using Win98 instead of Win95 cause the problems. What gives?!?!

What is the most modern set-up for playing games perfectly ranging from Wolf 3D up to most 1996-97 games?

If, and I say this in the strictest sense, if the goal is to play stuff released on up until 97 and not past that, then the ideal setup on the high end would be a Pentium II or K6-2 or 3 based platform, and on the low end a Pentium 166 MMX based cpu minimum. 64 megs minimum. 2gb hard drive minimum. Windows 98 dos mode is fine for exiting out into dos for games, but only if you configure your files well. Also, you have to ditch pci audio cards. Even the best of them as far as SB Pro capability goes will have issues on some games. You really need to go with a Awe32 or Awe64 if you want the best sound and support, or a SB Pro capable ISA card as a minimum (Creative, ESS, etc). A Gravis UltraSound is also a high end ISA card you can consider, but they are not as easy to get going as a Creative card. There is also the Ensoniq Soundscape line, the Pro AudioSpectrum 16, Aztech Sound Galaxy Pro 16 II, and some other ISA cards that while being below the Awe line are still pretty solid and a step up from a plain Sound Blaster.

If you can afford it, find a solid 2d pci card and invest in a Voodoo or Voodoo 2, or even Power VR. That would give you a workable solution for the early 3D hardware stuff that would have some umph. Be warned though, pairing a Voodoo 2 with a Pentium 1 cpu wont get you much further then if you went with a Voodoo 1, so if the Pentium 1 is the cpu of choice, and you can get a Voodoo 1 cheaper, just go for that instead of a Voodoo 2.

[spenoza]

I think I have a working Voodoo 3 around somewhere, PCI version, and I have an AWE32 in the basement. I don't know if the AWE32 works. Anyone wanna pick up some really old hardware?  : )

[HercTNT]

what he said and alittle extra. a voodoo is a better choice if you have a slower cpu. the powervr cards are good for old games, but need a faster cpu. The power vr does not really come into its own until you get to pentium 2 levels. Completely agree with the sound card choices as well. Anything other than a true sound blaster is a bitch to setup. The awe64 has the best sound, the awe32 is better for slower machines. either way you cant go wrong.

[PCEngineHell]

Anyone wanna pick up some really old hardware?  : )

Id be interested depending on the cost. I'm always collecting parts.

[HercTNT]

anyone got a working inkjet printer for the parallel port 

[BigusSchmuck]

anyone got a working inkjet printer for the parallel port 

No but we got a ton of these old dot matrix printer like the okidata and a few others. I'm pretty sure we can run old school games pretty darn good on a slow enough Pentium 3 (450mhz) as I was able to run games like Heretic and the original Decent on said hardware. Trying to get rid of this stuff is going to be a pain though...

[HercTNT]

I'd be happy getting my hands on a working dot matrix.

[SNKNostalgia]

Seems that my Pentium 2 400mhz turned Pentium 3 1ghz should work then. The Turtle Beach card does have full Soundblaster 16/Adlib emulation support that works well, which is good enough. It is just sitting in my parents basement doing nothing for the past 8 years once they got a Pentium 4 with WinXP in 2004.

My dad of course wiped the HDD and reinstalled Win 98SE. So, finding those damn newer drivers for my ATI Radeon 64MB 7200 is going to be a pain (I also still have my ATI Rage Pro 8MB and Xpert 2000 32MB. All of them running AGP 2x on my Mobo). The soundcard drivers luckily are the most up to date with the Drivers disc it came with. Also, going to have to update to the highest version of Win 98SE as well from a torrent site I bet. I just have never fooled with it since then.

So I assume this setup will work then. Worse case is that I can put the Pentium 2 back in there if it runs a lot of games too fast. To think of it, I never did try Herectic or Wing Commander 3 and 4 on it. Now that there is abandonware and cheap copies out there... it should be easy to test out.

[spenoza]

Oh, turns out I have an Athlon Tbird 2800+ sitting in my basement. Frankly, it's a complete system with ATI Radeon 8500. It lacks an HD but that's about it. I replaced it 3 years ago. I feel bad with it sitting there, but none of the shlubs on Craigslist want it.

[BigusSchmuck]

I'd be happy getting my hands on a working dot matrix.

When I go in on Monday I'll get you a list. We also have a continuous feed dot matrix printer too if you really want to annoy people when they come over due to how noisy it is.

[PCEngineHell]

Seems that my Pentium 2 400mhz turned Pentium 3 1ghz should work then. The Turtle Beach card does have full Soundblaster 16/Adlib emulation support that works well, which is good enough. It is just sitting in my parents basement doing nothing for the past 8 years once they got a Pentium 4 with WinXP in 2004.

My dad of course wiped the HDD and reinstalled Win 98SE. So, finding those damn newer drivers for my ATI Radeon 64MB 7200 is going to be a pain (I also still have my ATI Rage Pro 8MB and Xpert 2000 32MB. All of them running AGP 2x on my Mobo). The soundcard drivers luckily are the most up to date with the Drivers disc it came with. Also, going to have to update to the highest version of Win 98SE as well from a torrent site I bet. I just have never fooled with it since then.

So I assume this setup will work then. Worse case is that I can put the Pentium 2 back in there if it runs a lot of games too fast. To think of it, I never did try Herectic or Wing Commander 3 and 4 on it. Now that there is abandonware and cheap copies out there... it should be easy to test out.

The Turtle Beach Montego if I remember right was using the Aureal Vortex A3D chipset. Yeah, it was a good pci card, but its Dos support did have issues for some older Dos titles prior to 1994-1995. AMD has all the old ATI drivers up still, so you can still get Drivers for the older Radeon and Rage cards for Windows 98 fine.

[HercTNT]

I would appreciate that Big. I dont know about the continous feed though. thats just begging to get me divorced. You know, i never knew thier were dot matrix color as well. looked it up last night, seems some of them printed fairly decently.

[spenoza]

The Apple ImageWriter II had color ribbon capacity and could, with a proper adapter cable, be connected to a Windows PC serial port and driven by an Itoh dot matrix driver. Those things are tanks, too. They run for decades. Noisy like mad, but they are hard to kill.

[BigusSchmuck]

I would appreciate that Big. I dont know about the continous feed though. thats just begging to get me divorced. You know, i never knew thier were dot matrix color as well. looked it up last night, seems some of them printed fairly decently.

We might just have a color one left over come to think of it. I know we still have the color ribbons for it and I believe its a xerox. We might even have a usb okidata that hasn't even been used! I'll have to ask my boss, but I don't think we are going to sell these for any more than 20-50 dollars.

[HercTNT]

please let me know, if you have a color one, i would like it. the price sounds very reasonable

[Digi.k]

wow apart from commodore 64 and Atari 800XL and Amiga A500

god 486.. I think my first pc was a 486.. Cyrix cpu

if I ever was to have a fond memory of a pc component I would probably pick the gravis ultrasound card (hell to sort out in compatibility) but the sound was probably better than the Amiga A500's

[SNKNostalgia]

The Turtle Beach Montego if I remember right was using the Aureal Vortex A3D chipset. Yeah, it was a good pci card, but its Dos support did have issues for some older Dos titles prior to 1994-1995. AMD has all the old ATI drivers up still, so you can still get Drivers for the older Radeon and Rage cards for Windows 98 fine.

Damn, no go on the AMD website. The drivers are listed but not there when you click the download links. Guess I will look around. At least I know exactly which Catalyst, WDM and the ATI Multimedia player drivers I need.

[BlueBMW]

Speaking of fondness of a legacy pc component....



Not sure why I love this pad so much (because it truly is CRAP)  but its was I grew up playing PC games with.  Star Control 2 was played many a times with one of these!

As far as sound cards, my Gateway 2k P5-90 still has the SB16/AWE32 my dad put in way bitd (replaced an ensoniq soundscape IIRC) and my G2k P5-133 has a AWE64 card I put in maybe 10 years ago.

[cabbage]

Speaking of fondness of a legacy pc component....



Not sure why I love this pad so much (because it truly is CRAP)  but its was I grew up playing PC games with.  Star Control 2 was played many a times with one of these!

Hah, I just picked one of these up at a thrift store for $1... even has the screw-in joystick! I couldn't resist, even though I'll probably never use it. These things really do suck but they were the best (only?) PC gamepad I could find back in the day.

[PCEngineHell]

The Turtle Beach Montego if I remember right was using the Aureal Vortex A3D chipset. Yeah, it was a good pci card, but its Dos support did have issues for some older Dos titles prior to 1994-1995. AMD has all the old ATI drivers up still, so you can still get Drivers for the older Radeon and Rage cards for Windows 98 fine.

Damn, no go on the AMD website. The drivers are listed but not there when you click the download links. Guess I will look around. At least I know exactly which Catalyst, WDM and the ATI Multimedia player drivers I need.

Yeah I see their site is having issues, redirecting you on the download links. Well, hit me up if you want, I have a decent archive of drivers amassed, so I might have what you need.

/driverarchivesize.png

Speaking of fondness of a legacy pc component....



Not sure why I love this pad so much (because it truly is CRAP)  but its was I grew up playing PC games with.  Star Control 2 was played many a times with one of these!

Hah, I just picked one of these up at a thrift store for $1... even has the screw-in joystick! I couldn't resist, even though I'll probably never use it. These things really do suck but they were the best (only?) PC gamepad I could find back in the day.

I have a large variety of controllers for PC. I did have that normal Gravis Gamepad, but I sacrificed it to make a arcade stick for the Dos version of Primal Rage, since that port is basically arcade perfect. I have stuff like the Gravis Gamepad Pro with Grip support, the PowerRamp programmable arcade stick, Gravis Destroyer gamepad, some programmable Interact gamepad, classic flight wheel, etc, along with lots of USB type game pads, flight sticks, etc. One thing I can definitely recommend without a doubt is getting a classic white Gravis Gamepad Pro for its Dos grip function. That or obtain a PowerRamp stick or pad from Act Labs.

Not sure how far anyone here takes the classic gaming thing as far as Pc gaming goes, but I do have other rigs, one for Windows ME, and one for Windows XP also. I finished my XP rig a short while back. It took a long time to get it to be exactly the way I wanted it. Now I can enjoy alot of stuff I have that needs XP specifically, like Bet On Soldier.


Specs are as follows:
Athlon 64 3800+ 939
MSI MS-7184 micro atx motherboard
2gb DDR ram in dual channel
DVD drive
Cd drive
two 80GB sata harddrives
one 120GB ide harddrive
Sapphire X1950XT
SoundBlaster Audegy Se
Thermaltake TR2 RX 450 watt
five 80mm case fans (one in bottom harddrive cage)

/DSCN4671-1.jpg
/DSCN4682.jpg

[kamiboy]

Does anyone have a good idea as to a space saving solution for a DOS system?

I cringe whenever I look at the ugly beige behemoth in my game room taking up so much space just so I can play a few games from over 20 years ago.

What is the most minimalist, elegant setup possible for running games up to about early to mid 90's, which is where my interest in PC gaming tapers off.

[spenoza]

Well, I don't know if the oldest games would work well with an Athlon or P3, but I think there are some shuttle case/mobo combos still floating around that will accommodate those chips. A VIA C3 system might actually be best for compatibility and size.

On another note, does anyone here have any experience deliberately under-clocking older chips to reduce heat and power draw? I'm wondering if I clock my old Athlon way the crap down if I could throw it in a case with a fanless CPU cooler and a low wattage power supply to use as a kitchen PC or something.

[HercTNT]

blue i'm shocked you think the gravis gamepad is crap its not that bad no really, it works alright. i just picked one up brand new at goodwill. I"m pretty lucky, i managed to find alot of stuff in new condition. the only thing not new in my 486 is the board and cpu, everything else is sparkling hopefully i can get my hands on that printer. my daughters are into the retro stuff like me. I'm gonna install some classic kids games and painting programs for them to mess around with. my youngest loves simcity.

[BlueBMW]

blue i'm shocked you think the gravis gamepad is crap its not that bad no really, it works alright. i just picked one up brand new at goodwill. I"m pretty lucky, i managed to find alot of stuff in new condition. the only thing not new in my 486 is the board and cpu, everything else is sparkling hopefully i can get my hands on that printer. my daughters are into the retro stuff like me. I'm gonna install some classic kids games and painting programs for them to mess around with. my youngest loves simcity.

As a kid I loved the pad.  Nowadays, the D-pad just feels odd to me.  I guess I'm spoiled by the PCE pads etc    It will always have a nostalgic enjoyment for me though.

As far as good kids games...  KidPix is a fun old school painting program

[spenoza]

I do kinda like the thumbstick concept, though. There are some games where I've felt that works very well. I think a thumbstick would work pretty well with a fighting game, possibly.

[HercTNT]

I agree with that. the gravis worked well for the time. Blues right though, the d-pad is not the best. Kidpix....hmmmm.......gotta go find it, thanks for the info.

[BlueBMW]

I agree with that. the gravis worked well for the time. Blues right though, the d-pad is not the best. Kidpix....hmmmm.......gotta go find it, thanks for the info.

or if you want the more brainy type games... the first two Dr Brain games are kind of hard, but great fun.  Castle of Dr Brain and Island of Dr Brain.