rgb mod and hd tvs is there lag?

[8bitForLife]

I was reading that even with rgb modded systems there is a slight lag of graphics on hd tv's. Is this true and how much of a lag is it or is it not really noticeable.

[PCEngineHell]

It will vary from Tv to Tv.

[fraggore]

there is lag like PCEngineHell same are better the others a crt is your friend if you got the room.

[8bitForLife]

ya im trying to score a trinitron. But my very nice hdtv well have to do for my rx thats modded thesteve sent me pictures looks great.

[Bloody Wolf]

Been searching for free CRTs almost daily on craigslist lol

[esteban]

NOTE: Try local recycling stations--usually your municipality runs one--and websites (like freecycle) to find old televisions.

[Hewitson]

The lag on a modern HDTV of decent quality is NOT going to be even slightly noticable. My Panasonic plasma has a response time of 0.001 milliseconds.

Of course, you will certainly get a better looking picture with a CRT.

[kazekirifx]

My Sony HDTV is not of decent quality.

[HercTNT]

i have a samsung 32" lcd and i don't notice any lag. i think it depends on what you ahve

[SignOfZeta]

The lag on a modern HDTV of decent quality is NOT going to be even slightly noticable. My Panasonic plasma has a response time of 0.001 milliseconds.

The LCD component itself might have a lag that small, but its impossible for an SD signal to have that little lag displayed on an HDTV. The least lag of any line doubler is an XRGB series box, and even they have a lag of one field (ie: half a frame) which is 16ms. Most (probably all) scalers built into TVs are going to lag by at least an entire frame (which is 33ms) since they need to wait for an entire frame to be displayed before they can scale it and then send to the LCD, which will also take some time.

That .001ms time Panasonic quoted is probably the time it takes for the actual pixel to change color once the voltage reaches it. This is great for reducing motion blur and ghosting. There is a lot more to an HDTV signal path that that though.

Now, the older shittier Walmart HDTVs lagged horribly, like 250ms or more, but the new ones have almost none, even the Vizios. They are probably 50ms or less, which is absolutely fine unless you are a Virtual Fighter 3 god or something.

[Hewitson]

The lag on a modern HDTV of decent quality is NOT going to be even slightly noticable. My Panasonic plasma has a response time of 0.001 milliseconds.

The LCD component itself might have a lag that small, but its impossible for an SD signal to have that little lag displayed on an HDTV. The least lag of any line doubler is an XRGB series box, and even they have a lag of one field (ie: half a frame) which is 16ms. Most (probably all) scalers built into TVs are going to lag by at least an entire frame (which is 33ms) since they need to wait for an entire frame to be displayed before they can scale it and then send to the LCD, which will also take some time.

That .001ms time Panasonic quoted is probably the time it takes for the actual pixel to change color once the voltage reaches it. This is great for reducing motion blur and ghosting. There is a lot more to an HDTV signal path that that though.

You make a very valid point. Still, 33ms is negligible. Anyone who says they can notice that during gameplay is full of it as far as I'm concerned.

[thesteve]

that 33ms make a huge difference playing image fight.
that said its still playable

[esteban]

that 33ms make a huge difference playing Image Fight*.
that said its still playable

*no pun intended.

[8bitForLife]

not sure my panasonic lag is but it supports 240p through the component so it might be good.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_05771512000P
this is the exact tv i own i couldnt find any info about lag on it.

[8bitForLife]

apparently its an S-IPS Alpha which i read is good but no idea what it means ha.

[thesteve]

120hz means it updates 2X per frame.
if it has a way to turn postprocessing off it should be decent.

[SignOfZeta]

The lag on a modern HDTV of decent quality is NOT going to be even slightly noticable. My Panasonic plasma has a response time of 0.001 milliseconds.

The LCD component itself might have a lag that small, but its impossible for an SD signal to have that little lag displayed on an HDTV. The least lag of any line doubler is an XRGB series box, and even they have a lag of one field (ie: half a frame) which is 16ms. Most (probably all) scalers built into TVs are going to lag by at least an entire frame (which is 33ms) since they need to wait for an entire frame to be displayed before they can scale it and then send to the LCD, which will also take some time.

That .001ms time Panasonic quoted is probably the time it takes for the actual pixel to change color once the voltage reaches it. This is great for reducing motion blur and ghosting. There is a lot more to an HDTV signal path that that though.

You make a very valid point. Still, 33ms is negligible. Anyone who says they can notice that during gameplay is full of it as far as I'm concerned.

I'll adapt to 50ms of lag with no issues. If I've never played the game on another display I'll not even notice it. A frame is actually significant though, as hardcore VF people know.

[fraggore]

my samsung 32 is pretty good to be honest but there is a little lag compared to my crt

[8bitForLife]

i cant really notice any on mine. I can hook up my Duo rx to the component and it works so i guess my tv supports 240p and I'm not sure or not but there isn't any lag that I can see. It comes out a black and white picture if I hook it up with composite to the Y input. Correct me if I'm wrong. If this tv is good should spreed the word but the only draw back is no s-video on it and only one component and you would need a component selector to take advantage.

[jonzo]

As far as I'm aware, all HDTVs have to scale an image, even if they support 240p.

The scaling occurs to take the input input image up to the native resolution of the display.

[thesteve]

As far as I'm aware, all HDTVs have to scale an image, even if they support 240p.

The scaling occurs to take the input input image up to the native resolution of the display.

correct, but the methods very

[jonzo]

Which is why when playing on HDTV I tend to use XRGB-3 and DVDO Edge - although they don't play nice with PCE 

For PCE normally use Sony PVM via RGB.

[jonzo]

Slightly off-topic, but related to my previous post - has anyone come up with a way to stabilise the sync signal from the PCE? 

From what I can tell, the amplification of sync is not a solution to poor sync, it's that it is not stable (frequency fluctuates).

[thesteve]

its an amplification prob only
the 2 transistor circuit on the left fixes it

[kazekirifx]

I have the most trouble playing pinball games with the lag.


... Gorgar will Eat you.
Gorgar you can never win, man.

[roflmao]

I have a TG-16-CD  setup in my living room hooked up to a 47" LCD and have always noticed a lag, making it pretty much unplayable (aside from rpgs and military madness).  Until now, I've had the console running through my receiver, but thanks to the long weekend and a bit of inspiration, I routed it through my TV *then* into the receiver and now not only is the picture MUCH cleaner, but there is no lag!  Woo hoo!

[Kaijuboy]

You make a very valid point. Still, 33ms is negligible. Anyone who says they can notice that during gameplay is full of it as far as I'm concerned.

For "normal" games, i agree that its not *too* big of a deal, but on stuff like music games, 30-50ms lag is quite noticeable. Its the difference between "Goods" and "Greats" in scoring.  That's why so many of the recent games have a lag setting/test to adjust for this.

Another thing that people dont mention is the SIZES of these new TVs.  Its been proven that your brain sees and processes the same data faster on a smaller screen than on a larger one.  So there is the "Human Lag" to factor in here to...

[jonzo]

thesteve: Will give it a go.  I've not tried a dual-transistor approach.  Only tried none, and single.  Ta.

[thesteve]

the trick is transistors are fast, but offer current or voltage gain.
amp chips offer nice signal characteristics, but cant handle TTL switching
TTL chips cant handle millivolt signals
voltage gain always inverts the signal.
the first transistor amplifies the signal and inverts it.
the second transistor inverts it back at full rail to rail amplitude 5V TTL (usable by almost anything)

[8bitForLife]

120hz means it updates 2X per frame.
if it has a way to turn postprocessing off it should be decent.

not sure if mine cant or how to do it. It has alot of menu options for the inputs like compression and stuff like that.