S-Video Mod Schematic for the Schematic-Illiterate (For TG-16/Duo etc)

[SignOfZeta]

3D comb filters aren't always the best, but generally any TV with one is a good TV and there are usually lots of options to keep them from interfering with the signal too much. 

And yeah, lots of CRTs have component inputs. All four of mine do.

[SignOfZeta]

You guys are wiring the composite video straight into the Chroma pin?

It goes through a capacitor first so no, it's not straight into the S-video jack. I take it you've never seen S-video on the PCE/TG-16 in action?

I have not yet.  I see it goes through a very small capacitor.  My concern would be since the chroma is already part of composite signal, and has been mixed with Luma, hasn't the damage already been done? 

You'd think so, but while I haven't gotten around to doing this mod, I did do a very similar one on my MkI Genesis and the difference in video quality is HUUUUUGE so I'm sure it could help the PCE as well.

[thesteve]

lol, i game on CRT in pic
i use the flat panel for mod testing

[jamisonia]

lol, i game on CRT in pic
i use the flat panel for mod testing

Really, I've always preferred a CRT for mod testing because all digital TVs have a delay in establishing a picture, and it will often filter out random noise.  An analog TV shows everything.  Better for troubleshooting video mods if they're not working.

[vxbinaca]

I prefer S-video myself since I still like to do all of my gaming on a CRT TV. I hate playing games on a flat screen. I can't stand seeing the picture all streched out or a square in the center with black all around it. So for those of us who prefer CRT gaming S-video is still a great option.

You do know that modern LCDs allow you to set aspect ratio of the inputs, right?

[PCEngineHell]

I prefer S-video myself since I still like to do all of my gaming on a CRT TV. I hate playing games on a flat screen. I can't stand seeing the picture all streched out or a square in the center with black all around it. So for those of us who prefer CRT gaming S-video is still a great option.

You do know that modern LCDs allow you to set aspect ratio of the inputs, right?

If you'd actually read his post you'd see he was quite aware of that.

all streched out or a square in the center with black all around it

[bartre]

so a side note, would there be any way to adapt this so that i could put the jack on a PCE IFU-30?
I'd love to have the S-video option, but i'd have a hard time figuring out where to put the jack on just the system.

[SignOfZeta]

The signal originates in the PCE itself so you'd have to run wires from it to the IFU which would be kind of silly. Many people remove the OEM video socket and replace it with something else like a DIN with more pins on it or whatever.

If you have a white PCE you can just ditch the useless OEM RF socket completely and replace it with a 4 pin mini DIN.

[bartre]

yeah, running a beefcase setup with a CGXI right now, but i may just do that.
what do you think would be the best way to  mount the socket if i were to go the route of replacing it?

[PCEngineHell]

yeah, running a beefcase setup with a CGXI right now, but i may just do that.
what do you think would be the best way to  mount the socket if i were to go the route of replacing it?

Doujindance has a nice video on youtube showing how he replaces the din socket with one accepting more pins. If you look around you could probably find it on there by searching his name or something. It will be in his RGB mod video I believe.

[Duo_R]

yeah you just need the right socket that solders up nicely to the board. I found one on ebay that works.

[ApolloBoy]

If you have a white PCE you can just ditch the useless OEM RF socket completely and replace it with a 4 pin mini DIN.

That's what I did with mine and Black Tiger's PCEs. It's a very clean solution and you don't have to drill any extra holes which is really nice.

[NightWolve]

I prefer S-video myself since I still like to do all of my gaming on a CRT TV. I hate playing games on a flat screen. I can't stand seeing the picture all streched out or a square in the center with black all around it. So for those of us who prefer CRT gaming S-video is still a great option.

Sounds like you missed out on a CRT with YPbPr inputs then! I've got a 32" Panasonic with three S-Video jacks and one YPbPr Component, although I modded it and added another set of jacks on the right side for convenience since I'm doing a lot of testing and plugging cables in & out frequently enough (only one set of jacks works at a time, obviously - I bought so many of these, I had to do something with them.).



No reason you can't do both mods, right? ;)

Nice thing is, a 240p Luma signal is guaranteed to work with a CRT and the picture is just plain lovely; the shimmering effects when scrolling are mostly eliminated (not completely, but better than S-Video), the colors are more solid and there's less interference (wavy lines, etc.). It's not raw analog RGB, but it's pretty close from my understanding. I finished the SNES Component mod and I'm still so impressed by the difference (This is the amplifier circuit I built with steve's favorite transistors)!:

[PCEngineHell]

People seem to forget the old saying YMMV at times like these. Just having an component option does not automatically make it superior across the board for everyone. Different tv sets will offer different quality on their inputs. What works great for one in component may not do as well for another via the same option. I personally have two CRT sets, both supporting composite and svideo, and one supporting component in also. The one without component support, its svideo in is totally superior to the others component in, simply due to it being a better tv, so I wont even bother using anything on the other one other then cable tv, xbox, and GC. Others may have similar issues like myself, or simply no set that supports component in at all CRT wise. They could also run into issues like what my mom's old crt used to experience, with her component in being a tad, just a tad, worse then her svideo in. Something that wasn't easy to spot when watching dvds but was noticeable when connected to a jrok encoder and doing some game testing.

At any rate, please try to stay on topic on this one and keep the component mod discussion and info on the component thread. If the component mod is finalized and actually on par with svideo now, or superior, in both color and sharpness or quality, then some actual quality screen grabs or video capture needs to be done now, for one, to show its been finalized, and two, to compare against the s-video mod (no moar cell phone pics, damn you Steve!). The component thread needs to be updated with that info, and a final schematic if it has not yet (sorry, I dont read that thread really, so have no idea if you guys have done this yet or not). Nice gold plated jacks btw Nightwolve. I used to use them on my supergun kits. They hold up well.

[NightWolve]

People seem to forget the old saying YMMV at times like these. Just having an component option does not automatically make it superior across the board for everyone. Different tv sets will offer different quality on their inputs. What works great for one in component may not do as well for another via the same option. I personally have two CRT sets, both supporting composite and svideo, and one supporting component in also. The one without component support, its svideo in is totally superior to the others component in, simply due to it being a better tv, so I wont even bother using anything on the other one other then cable tv, xbox, and GC. Others may have similar issues like myself, or simply no set that supports component in at all CRT wise. They could also run into issues like what my mom's old crt used to experience, with her component in being a tad, just a tad, worse then her svideo in. Something that wasn't easy to spot when watching dvds but was noticeable when connected to a jrok encoder and doing some game testing.

I hear ya, and I don't doubt this at all, but I think in principle or say in general, you ought to be able to get better picture quality with YPbPr Component because then it becomes counter-intuitive, that is to say, why would the industry bother to adopt the YPbPr standard as the successor to S-Video if you *generally* couldn't get a better result, etc. ? But yeah, based on what I've heard over time, I'm not gonna say in every case you get a better result, but there's certainly a good chance that you will and that's only ever been my experience. Anyway, with steve's cheap circuit, we can have both options as mentioned! Some creativity is needed for using the limited real estate of the Duo for jack placement though, but yeah...

At any rate, please try to stay on topic on this one and keep the component mod discussion and info on the component thread.

I wouldn't have thought the tangent to be too off or unwanted, but sure.

If the component mod is finalized and actually on par with svideo now, or superior, in both color and sharpness or quality, then some actual quality screen grabs or video capture needs to be done now, for one, to show its been finalized, and two, to compare against the s-video mod (no moar cell phone pics, damn you Steve!). The component thread needs to be updated with that info, and a final schematic if it has not yet (sorry, I dont read that thread really, so have no idea if you guys have done this yet or not).

Oh yeah, it'll happen. Goes without saying. I believe he feels the circuit is purty final (it works for the customer), but would like backup verification by others (me, Blue and anyone else) to build it off the schematic before proceeding with further plans to manufacture pre-made boards. Not something you wanna rush of course, and everyone works in their own time and mood, etc. (P.S. steve, I wouldn't wait on me, I'm distracted by other things lately so I dunno when I'll get to it).

Nice gold plated jacks btw Nightwolve. I used to use them on my supergun kits. They hold up well.

Yeah, got a local store (American Science'n'Surplus) that sells them for $1 (all 3 jacks on a wall plate)! Of course, they only come in standard yellow, white and red so I had to improvise and use green and blue nail polish to get proper Component coloring... ;) The green polish is strong, but blue came with glitter which requires more care or you'll nick it off unfortunately... I'm just being cheap, is all - you can buy them online with proper coloring obviously. The other thing though, I wish my drilling had gone a bit better for it, but good enough I guess... =\

[jamisonia]

People seem to forget the old saying YMMV at times like these. Just having an component option does not automatically make it superior across the board for everyone. Different tv sets will offer different quality on their inputs. What works great for one in component may not do as well for another via the same option. I personally have two CRT sets, both supporting composite and svideo, and one supporting component in also. The one without component support, its svideo in is totally superior to the others component in, simply due to it being a better tv, so I wont even bother using anything on the other one other then cable tv, xbox, and GC. Others may have similar issues like myself, or simply no set that supports component in at all CRT wise. They could also run into issues like what my mom's old crt used to experience, with her component in being a tad, just a tad, worse then her svideo in. Something that wasn't easy to spot when watching dvds but was noticeable when connected to a jrok encoder and doing some game testing.

At any rate, please try to stay on topic on this one and keep the component mod discussion and info on the component thread. If the component mod is finalized and actually on par with svideo now, or superior, in both color and sharpness or quality, then some actual quality screen grabs or video capture needs to be done now, for one, to show its been finalized, and two, to compare against the s-video mod (no moar cell phone pics, damn you Steve!). The component thread needs to be updated with that info, and a final schematic if it has not yet (sorry, I dont read that thread really, so have no idea if you guys have done this yet or not). Nice gold plated jacks btw Nightwolve. I used to use them on my supergun kits. They hold up well.

This is simply not true.  If the source material originates in RGB the quality of the output will be RGB > YPbPr > S-Video > Composite > RF.  This rules are hard and fast and always apply, if the material is stored in a component format. It should be stated that YPbPr and RGB are closer to how the actual source material looks, it may not look better.  Better may be a matter of opinion.  It will look more accurate to the source material.  You can argue whether this is "better" nor not.  People argue using s-video isn't better because it destroys video trick the developers relied on back in those days.    


I'd also like to make note that the s-video inputs are labeled incorrectly in the first post.  When looking at a female s-video port, as the picture depicts, Luma is going into the right top in (pin 3), and Chroma goes into the left top pin (pin 4).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video

[HercTNT]

Not sure what video trick you refferring to, but many people here have s-vid modded turbo's. I have an s-vid modded turbo and genesis and the improved visual quality is not subjective. S-vid is clearly superior to composite in any good screenshot anywhere on the web or here your going to find it. Take an s-vid modded and composite genny side by side and tell me the s-video is debatable (i'm sure you will)

[PCEngineHell]

People seem to forget the old saying YMMV at times like these. Just having an component option does not automatically make it superior across the board for everyone. Different tv sets will offer different quality on their inputs. What works great for one in component may not do as well for another via the same option. I personally have two CRT sets, both supporting composite and svideo, and one supporting component in also. The one without component support, its svideo in is totally superior to the others component in, simply due to it being a better tv, so I wont even bother using anything on the other one other then cable tv, xbox, and GC. Others may have similar issues like myself, or simply no set that supports component in at all CRT wise. They could also run into issues like what my mom's old crt used to experience, with her component in being a tad, just a tad, worse then her svideo in. Something that wasn't easy to spot when watching dvds but was noticeable when connected to a jrok encoder and doing some game testing.

At any rate, please try to stay on topic on this one and keep the component mod discussion and info on the component thread. If the component mod is finalized and actually on par with svideo now, or superior, in both color and sharpness or quality, then some actual quality screen grabs or video capture needs to be done now, for one, to show its been finalized, and two, to compare against the s-video mod (no moar cell phone pics, damn you Steve!). The component thread needs to be updated with that info, and a final schematic if it has not yet (sorry, I dont read that thread really, so have no idea if you guys have done this yet or not). Nice gold plated jacks btw Nightwolve. I used to use them on my supergun kits. They hold up well.

This is simply not true.  If the source material originates in RGB the quality of the output will be RGB > YPbPr > S-Video > Composite > RF.  This rules are hard and fast and always apply, if the material is stored in a component format. It should be stated that YPbPr and RGB are closer to how the actual source material looks, it may not look better.  Better may be a matter of opinion.  It will look more accurate to the source material.  You can argue whether this is "better" nor not.  People argue using s-video isn't better because it destroys video trick the developers relied on back in those days.   


I'd also like to make note that the s-video inputs are labeled incorrectly in the first post.  When looking at a female s-video port, as the picture depicts, Luma is going into the right top in (pin 3), and Chroma goes into the left top pin (pin 4).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video

This is under the assumption of one: the component mod is working 100 percent up to snuff, and two: you have a great set. Just because the TV offers component does not suddenly make it a awesome set, nor does it mean the manufacture implemented component well. CRT's are not created equal. Quality will vary among them, among the inputs and the TV's using them depending on how great the manufacturer did of a job putting the set together. I'm sorry you think its a lie, but I have been in the game long enough to speak from vast experience concerning the matter. If you have a hard time understanding why or how a great built crt using a Panasonic or other quality tube using s-video can beat a shitty Emerson with god awful inner working and a terrible no name crt tube from China, then I'm sorry, I cant help you. You are a lost cause.


As for the s-video soldering info, evidently you don't understand what "REAR" of the jack means, as the schematic clearly states. It means solder side, as in, not the front of the jack that you plug the svideo cable into. Again, if you don't understand what this means, then sorry, I cant help you. If it makes you feel better though, you can burn a effigy of me or something and shout a few curses my way.



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[jamisonia]

As for the s-video soldering info, evidently you don't understand what "REAR" of the jack means, as the schematic clearly states.

So this isn't the s-video schematic for the illiterate then?  It requires reading.  To be honest I just simply looked at the picture, and noticed something didn't look right.   

I think you can see my point though.  The picture shows you looking at the female socket end of an s-video plug.  Additionally its inconsistent with the Turbo's DIN plug you show right below it.  I'm not sure why you're being a jackass about it.  I think you can see that there should be some consistency, especially if this is supposed to be for those that can't read schematics.   

Insofar as the YPbPr goes, you really believe that the circuit used to implement on YPbPr on cheap TVs is inferior to the circuit used to separate the C into its separate colors from the Y/C input?  By you own admission DVDs still looked better.  DVDs are a far superior test source.

[thesteve]

as i see it S-Vid is the prefered output for the PCE/Turbo, as it does it native.

[thesteve]

Composite:

S-Vid:


Note the color bleed on composite (same TV)

[Keith Courage]

Even if component can look better the fact still remains that this S-video mod is easy to do. Where as for someone who hasn't done much soldering the component mod schematic could look like an alien language and end up taking much much much more time to complete. So for those looking for an easy Video upgrade S-video is the way to go.

[jamisonia]

Even if component can look better the fact still remains that this S-video mod is easy to do. Where as for someone who hasn't done much soldering the component mod schematic could look like an alien language and end up taking much much much more time to complete. So for those looking for an easy Video upgrade S-video is the way to go.

Given, but to say some TVs work with Y/C signals better than they work with YPbPr signals makes no sense.  No matter what the signals are divided into Red, Green, and Blue Signals.  The more separated the signals are to begin with the more accurate reproduction.  However, given that YPbPr doesn't actually contain the green color signal, I will admit that YPbPr will look "greener" compared to composite and Y/C.  Obviously straight RGB is still the best.  (Not in the case of BDs and DVDs though)

[PCEngineHell]

As for the s-video soldering info, evidently you don't understand what "REAR" of the jack means, as the schematic clearly states.

So this isn't the s-video schematic for the illiterate then?  It requires reading.  To be honest I just simply looked at the picture, and noticed something didn't look right.  

I think you can see my point though.  The picture shows you looking at the female socket end of an s-video plug.  Additionally its inconsistent with the Turbo's DIN plug you show right below it.  I'm not sure why you're being a jackass about it.  I think you can see that there should be some consistency, especially if this is supposed to be for those that can't read schematics.    

Insofar as the YPbPr goes, you really believe that the circuit used to implement on YPbPr on cheap TVs is inferior to the circuit used to separate the C into its separate colors from the Y/C input?  By you own admission DVDs still looked better.  DVDs are a far superior test source.

Dvds being outputted in normal play via component, with the video in motion, not running a THX or similar calibration test , using still images for that matter, no you would not see much a difference as compared to an analog out, non-progress scan component signal on a jrok encoder, when running a arcade game boards calibration test. There is a big difference there between the two, and that is where the quality issues were shown.

Its not being rude, its stating a fact. You having issues accepting that, let alone accepting the fact that a shitty crt tube and shitty circuitry, is not going to compete with a solid built set, regardless of the shity one offering component over the better ones s-video out, is not my problem, nor anyone else here. And trying to clog up this thread with your imaginary issues and inability to tell the difference between a bad tv and a good one, that is being a jack ass.

No one here is saying component itself in general is worse then svideo quality wise. Its not. It is superior signal wise. What matters however is the total quality of the sum of the parts used. Its the same thing as having a thousand dollar surround THX receiver and slapping it with a 50 dollar set of used generic no name speakers, versus a solid Pioneer Stereo receiver with two solid Dynaudio speakers. The other guy may have 5.1, but who fucking cares, because it sounds like 5.1 out of a few tin cans due to the weakest link being the speakers. The same applies to the crt being used. If it is a shitty crt, it is going to be your weakest link in the chain, and therefore your end picture quality is going to suck, regardless of the shitty crt offering component, all it is doing is giving you a worse representation of a otherwise solid signal.

And that worse representation of said signal, being component, is then not going to stand a chance against the best representation of s-video, which is a quality signal just a notch below it for that matter. This also applies to the mod itself. If the component mod is not yet up to snuff, then the end quality is still not going to compete with, nor surpass, the svideo mod that is. As stated before, and now I am basically sounding like a broken record, if you don't understand why all of this is the fact of the matter, then you are a lost cause.

Also, stating REAR of the jack, everyone else seems to know what it meant but you. I mean come on, 5 pages later and the only guy complaining and accusing someone of lying is the one guy who dropped me a pm talking about how he and others argue on the other forum he is on, and is fishing for some back talk about Drakon, who no one else gives a flying fuck about? Seriously?  

Also, in what world does a svideo jack have anything to do with a TurboDuo din plug? They are separate entities, and each were labeled accordingly. Just because you can invent some complaints does not make them valid, and seriously, if you cant READ the words on the schematic, then probably just as well you should not be on the net, since you obviously cant read or type then, correct? Implying someone as being schematic illiterate is a bit different then just implying they are illiterate, which I did not do. Are you some global representative for The Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too or something?

Seriously, stop trying to clog up this thread with bullshit already. It is not warranted, wanted, nor appreciated by anyone here who actually knows wtf they are doing, let alone in general.

[SignOfZeta]

Even if component can look better the fact still remains that this S-video mod is easy to do. Where as for someone who hasn't done much soldering the component mod schematic could look like an alien language and end up taking much much much more time to complete. So for those looking for an easy Video upgrade S-video is the way to go.

Given, but to say some TVs work with Y/C signals better than they work with YPbPr signals makes no sense.  No matter what the signals are divided into Red, Green, and Blue Signals.  The more separated the signals are to begin with the more accurate reproduction.  However, given that YPbPr doesn't actually contain the green color signal, I will admit that YPbPr will look "greener" compared to composite and Y/C.  Obviously straight RGB is still the best.  (Not in the case of BDs and DVDs though) 

I think you are underestimating how shitty a TV can be, and encoders as well.

I installed a JROK in my CMVS and I'm telling you there is zero improvement over s-video. Yeah, there SHOULD be, but there isn't. This is probably because the JROK has a so-so component transcoder, and also because my Sony XBR960 has a fucking wicked bunch of super high tech circuitry in it. I'm not sure, I just know that the encoder was kind of a waste of money. I should have just used the standard JROK.

It might make a bigger difference on my pro JVC since it has no comb filters or anything, being a reference monitor. I've never tried it though. 

The point is: things vary a lot from set to set, and anyone bothering to go through this process probably has a nice Sony or JVC from the golden era of CRT and the PCE is going to look amazing on it with this very mod.

[PCEngineHell]

I went ahead and got off my lazy ass and did these since I figured it needed to be done for this thread to compare s-video against composite. There is some drawbacks to this though. For one, I do not have the capture card I used to have, nor the software I used to cap with, so I was limited to using my Geforce FX 5950 Vivo in and Windows movie maker. Anyone in the know as far as video capping is concerned is that it is near impossible to play games and cap video in Windows Movie Maker due to the lag and choppiness present in their software when capping from S-Video and Composite. Due to this I did not cap as wide a range of games, nor did I do any actual videos. Actual videos would have shown the degree to which the shimmering effect has been minimized, however I cant give you that. Also, my 5950 is not great where color is concerned, so you are not going to see much variation between color quality in these pics.

Saying all of that, I will go on record and state what I have stated prior, PCE/TG Composite was never terrible to begin with. It was one of the best examples of composite done right on a game system, compared to the likes of the Genesis, Master System, or early AES, where composite was simply terrible. My only real complaint with the TG/PCE composite was the shimmering, which happens on most any system via composite anyway. Sharpness was fairly good as is, as was color. Regardless, what these pics will show you is the degree to which sharpness has been improved, and due to that, finer details are nicer looking. Don't try looking at the total picture, as that will probably make it harder to compare on these pics.

What I suggest is to focus on finer details, like the straight lines on the buildings on the background of Air Zonk, rocks on the bottom area of Keith Courage, or how nice and smooth the old mans staff is in Cadash, along with how smooth the status field looks in that game in S-video compared to composite. Or for that matter how much sharper the character portraits look on Cadash on character select (especially in the Fighters case). Basically just building on already great image quality composite provided for the system, S-video really just fixed what little problems are there a bit more. On a good CRT, in motion, you will obviously notice more then what these pics provide. Sorry I could not get you any decent gameplay videos, just not possible with my current gear.

[Bernie]

I may catch shit for this....but I find it really hard to tell the difference... I just ain't seeing it.

[HercTNT]

no, your right bernie. just goes to show just how good the composite on the turbo really is. s-vid helps, but composite is very close. its not like the diff between the composite and s-vid on a genny. that will open your eyes.

[tpivette]

I may catch shit for this....but I find it really hard to tell the difference... I just ain't seeing it.

Glad I wasn't the only one thinking that...

I'd be willing to bet, though, when in motion the S-Video would be alot better. I've noticed alot of the "shimmering" effect with composite vs the lack of with S-Video

[PCEngineHell]

Like I said, sharpness is improved by a degree. The shimmering for me was always the major issue. The sharpness thing is more of a nit picking thing, and you really have to have a good eye and notice certain things to see the difference some times depending on the display being used. It also helps if your tv by chance somehow managed terrible composite in but good svideo in, as more flaws will be noticeable. Only issue with this is you are viewing these grabs from caps, so the whole sdtv CRT/scanline factor has been taken away, making it harder to spot differences. As stated prior, ymmv anyway. You will be less likely to notice a improvement on your LCD between the two then compared to a CRT too.

If this helps you spot some differences, here you go:

[roflmao]

While I haven't seen the TG16/PCE in S-Video I have seen the difference using the Genesis, Saturn, PS1 & 2 with composite and s-video and the difference is very noticeable.  Especially in motion.

[SignOfZeta]

Video capture cards are a pretty useless gauge of video quality, IMHO. In this case it seems to be doing a great job of presenting the composite at least, usually you get the opposite. Usually everything looks crap. Often times they are wired internally to combine Y/C anyway. Sometimes they have awesome 3D comb filters superior to what's probably in your TV. Then there is all the hardware compression they do which ends up giving you new artifacts not present in the signal, or artificially cleaning it up. Either way, a capture card puts its own unique twist on the signal.

[PCEngineHell]

Video capture cards are a pretty useless gauge of video quality, IMHO. In this case it seems to be doing a great job of presenting the composite at least, usually you get the opposite. Usually everything looks crap. Often times they are wired internally to combine Y/C anyway. Sometimes they have awesome 3D comb filters superior to what's probably in your TV. Then there is all the hardware compression they do which ends up giving you new artifacts not present in the signal, or artificially cleaning it up. Either way, a capture card puts its own unique twist on the signal.

Yeah I agree. The prior card I used to use, a Gainward Golden Sample Ti4200, with InterVideo WinCoder, was a lot better for this sort of task. There was no lag when capping vids, and it did not try to clean up composite at all, as found here:



Unfortunately the FX 5950 I have does more clean up on the composite lines image quality then the Ti 4200 did, which is great for people who wanted a quality clean up job when capping video from vcr's, laserdisc,  etc. But it's bad for using it when doing a compare like this because it trumps up the signal quality more then the average tv probably would on the composite line . It makes me feel a bit foolish for selling my old Gainward.

[Keith Courage]

S-Video looks way better in person. I have a S-video modded DUO-R and in many games I have switched from Composite to S-Video back and forth to see the change and the difference is like night and day depending on the game. Some games the difference is minimal but on others it's just amazing. I am playing through Blood Gear right now and I have to say that S-Video tromps standard composite.

[PCEngineHell]

Yeah, like I said, my 5950 cap card is doing some cleanup on the composite line, which is also partly why I get lag when I record video with it via composite in. Its very likely more often then not that hardly anyone's TV here will have a composite image looking as nice as it did in the pics above, though I image some people with really really good monitors can get fairly close, with the same, or better color quality. High quality still shots, and seeing stuff in motion on a traditional crt though, is another issue all together. Active movement in the image would expose more weakness in the composite quality that the still shots alone are not going to show, and I wish I could present that, but I cant play the games with the degree of lag that is present on that setup.

[thesteve]

that is why i prefer live shots of actual monitors/TV's
i have always found cap cards to add excessive blur/filtering

[PCEngineHell]

Live shots are fine if you can actually see what the pic is showing. You need to be using a decent camera to do those types of shots and get really good results though. I even have issues getting good shots with my camera on a CRT due to glare and crap. To be honest with like with the shots you posted, I honestly have a hard time telling whats what on screen because it looks bad. If I have to choose between something like cellphone or iphone pics, and screen caps on a capture card, I am going to choose the cap card every time.

[NightWolve]

Even if Component can look better the fact still remains that this S-video mod is easy to do. Where as for someone who hasn't done much soldering the component mod schematic could look like an alien language and end up taking much much much more time to complete. So for those looking for an easy Video upgrade S-video is the way to go.

Oh sure, there was never any "Don't do the S-Video mod in favor of Component only" message here (It was do both and it's worth it!) and of course the S-Video mod alone is naturally far easier. You can see from my Turbo Duo's case, I aim to do both simultaneously and I have some ideas I wanna try on how to best tweak the Luma and Chroma although there are pros/cons to it all as discussed earlier.

(There's a little story behind the female S-Video jack that you see above... I was billed $10 for it total from http://www.markertek.com/ and this happened because I assumed the shipping would be reasonable, but they don't tell you what the charge will be until they're ready to ship... Disgusted, I sent a nasty email to their support desk and they wound up completely refunding the shipping charge to me, so I only paid the $1.50 for it... The fun didn't end after I received it, though. It didn't include the locking nut, even though it's clearly shown in the picture, so I had to improvise and make my own which required using a hack saw and my bench grinder... It uses metric threading of size 13mm and I could only find a nut for plumbing applications that would work, I shopped around several places before making my own... Anyway... Heh-heh! I never bought anything from them again suffice to say...)

Given your point about difficulty though, eventually steve and BlueBMW are gonna be manufacturing an amp PCB for RGB, YPbPr, and *I think* S-Video as well. A PCEFX Jrok equivalent but just meant for NEC systems and without some $50+ price tag. Thus, for us seasoned DIY folks that want a little electrical engineering challenge on the side, we can go ahead and build it ourselves, but those with less skills/confidence/time can buy a custom, ready-to-go board for a reasonable price where you'd just have to solder wires up properly to the 6260 video chip and elsewhere, along with deciding on jack placement or going with DIN, etc.

that is why i prefer live shots of actual monitors/TV's
i have always found cap cards to add excessive blur/filtering

It's kind of funny... Steve can learn how to come up with a S-Video circuit, a YPbPr circuit, an RGB amp, a 3.5" LCD Mod for the Turbo Express, strategically placing a few caps around a video chip to eliminate jail bars, and all sorts of repairs of hardware both electrical and mechanical, etc... BUT, what he can't learn to do or come up with is how to take some decent screenshots, let alone organize them in a useful fashion for the viewer... Heh-heh! Just messin' with ya. ;)

[esteban]

It's kind of funny... Steve can learn how to come up with a S-Video circuit, a YPbPr circuit, an RGB amp, a 3.5" LCD Mod for the Turbo Express, strategically placing a few caps around a video chip to eliminate jail bars, and all sorts of repairs of hardware both electrical and mechanical, etc... BUT, what he can't learn to do or come up with is how to take some decent screenshots, let alone organize them in a useful fashion for the viewer... Heh-heh! Just messin' with ya. ;)

Hahahhahahhaaha. Seriously. He does amazing things but when he documents his accomplishments, it looks like a broken flip phone circa 1998 took the pictures.

I feel bad for even joking about the extreme discrepancy between his contributions and his photos.

[jamisonia]

Dvds being outputted in normal play via component, with the video in motion, not running a THX or similar calibration test , using still images for that matter, no you would not see much a difference as compared to an analog out, non-progress scan component signal on a jrok encoder, when running a arcade game boards calibration test. There is a big difference there between the two, and that is where the quality issues were shown.

Its not being rude, its stating a fact. You having issues accepting that, let alone accepting the fact that a shitty crt tube and shitty circuitry, is not going to compete with a solid built set, regardless of the shity one offering component over the better ones s-video out, is not my problem, nor anyone else here. And trying to clog up this thread with your imaginary issues and inability to tell the difference between a bad tv and a good one, that is being a jack ass.

No one here is saying component itself in general is worse then svideo quality wise. Its not. It is superior signal wise. What matters however is the total quality of the sum of the parts used. Its the same thing as having a thousand dollar surround THX receiver and slapping it with a 50 dollar set of used generic no name speakers, versus a solid Pioneer Stereo receiver with two solid Dynaudio speakers. The other guy may have 5.1, but who fucking cares, because it sounds like 5.1 out of a few tin cans due to the weakest link being the speakers. The same applies to the crt being used. If it is a shitty crt, it is going to be your weakest link in the chain, and therefore your end picture quality is going to suck, regardless of the shitty crt offering component, all it is doing is giving you a worse representation of a otherwise solid signal.

And that worse representation of said signal, being component, is then not going to stand a chance against the best representation of s-video, which is a quality signal just a notch below it for that matter. This also applies to the mod itself. If the component mod is not yet up to snuff, then the end quality is still not going to compete with, nor surpass, the svideo mod that is. As stated before, and now I am basically sounding like a broken record, if you don't understand why all of this is the fact of the matter, then you are a lost cause.

Also, stating REAR of the jack, everyone else seems to know what it meant but you. I mean come on, 5 pages later and the only guy complaining and accusing someone of lying is the one guy who dropped me a pm talking about how he and others argue on the other forum he is on, and is fishing for some back talk about Drakon, who no one else gives a flying fuck about? Seriously? 

Also, in what world does a svideo jack have anything to do with a TurboDuo din plug? They are separate entities, and each were labeled accordingly. Just because you can invent some complaints does not make them valid, and seriously, if you cant READ the words on the schematic, then probably just as well you should not be on the net, since you obviously cant read or type then, correct? Implying someone as being schematic illiterate is a bit different then just implying they are illiterate, which I did not do. Are you some global representative for The Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too or something?

Seriously, stop trying to clog up this thread with bullshit already. It is not warranted, wanted, nor appreciated by anyone here who actually knows wtf they are doing, let alone in general.

You clearly don't understand how video works.  Pick up a copy of Digital Video Essentials and educate yourself.

[ApolloBoy]

You clearly don't understand how video works.  Pick up a copy of Digital Video Essentials and educate yourself. 

So Mike makes a nice detailed post and that's all you have to say? OK...

[SignOfZeta]

DIGITAL Video Essentials? Isn't this a calibration disc? Much education could possible be contained there? And regardless, this isn't digital video we are taking about.

Next he'll be talking about how we are all tools for not understanding that the HDMI mod clearly trumps the YPBPR ones...

[jamisonia]

You clearly don't understand how video works.  Pick up a copy of Digital Video Essentials and educate yourself.

So Mike makes a nice detailed post and that's all you have to say? OK...

There was nothing else I felt like saying after he insisted on flaming me with this bullshit, bullshit bullshit.  If he wants to maintain that s-video can be superior to YPbPr on the same set, that demonstrates of lack of understanding about video.  Additionally I see no reason for him to flame me over mentioning that the S-video jack pin markings were inconsistent the DIN port markings right below it, and how that is not conducive to a post made specifically for those who can't read schematics.  Correct or not is one thing, but to flame me for mentioning it. 

Yes Digital Video Essentials, in addition to being a calibration disc is a very detailed explanation of how video and TV works.  It goes into great details about analog signals as well.  Although Video Essentials goes into greater detail about analog (being that it was for LaserDisc).  In fact all this education is people's #1 complaint about DVE.  They just want to calibrate their sets, they don't want to know how or why it works, and exactly what they're doing.  Popping in DVE forces you to watch about 30 minutes at least on the difference video standards, how TVs work, and the history of TVs before you get to calibration.  If you watch all three Video Essentials discs, Video Essentials, Digital Video Essential, and DVE HD Basics, you'll get a pretty good handle on how video was worked for the inception of TV through today.  If you just want to calibrate get Disney's WoW Disc.    

In unrelated news, and I'm sure this will be of great despair to you all, I am done with this community.

[SignOfZeta]

I have Video Essentials, the LD. It's pretty useful, but it isn't exactly educational and it doesn't go into much detail at all about analog signals. I agree it is too long winded though.

The point, anyway, is that Y/C can indeed be superior to YPBPR on the same set in certain circumstances. In other circumstances composite can be better than Y/C. This is absolutely positively true. Mike is a gigantic asshole but he's absolutely correct in this matter and you maybe need to go back to working at Best Buy to repeat the home theater sales floor crash course you flunked out of.

[Bernie]

You clearly don't understand how video works.  Pick up a copy of Digital Video Essentials and educate yourself.

So Mike makes a nice detailed post and that's all you have to say? OK...

In unrelated news, and I'm sure this will be of great despair to you all, I am done with this community. 

Dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out....    Have a nice day.

[PCEngineHell]

Because fuck all, so enjoy the lulz:
https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?msg=280766

Anyway, if I can track down a copy of the old software I used to use for capping game play, I will make some composite/s-video compare videos to update this thread.

[HercTNT]

Jamisonia, ahh yes, a true breakfast cereal if i ever saw one. Fruits, nuts, and flakes. Noob jumps into the forums and immediatly stirs the shit by crapping on mike, ignores everyone else's statements, then claims he was doing it in self defense. Just one more troll looking for 15 minutes of forum fame. Now he's gonna take his football and go home, leaving us empty handed with no ball to play with. Guess he showed us...............

[PCEngineHell]

Not exactly empty handed, I got a video out of it.

[HercTNT]

 

[Sensato Black Lion]

Back on the original topic, has anyone compared this newer s-video mod with the CXA1645 one?

I made a screenshot comparison page based on the CXA mod some time ago if anyone is interested: http://quebecgamers.com/sensato/Workshop/PCE_svid.htm

I took my screenshots with some ATI All-In-Wonder capture card from an old PC I don't have anymore.

The difference between svideo and composite seems bigger to me with these screenshots (based on the CXA1645 svideo mod) than with the newer mod but I will have to try the newer mod to see how it really does.

I almost pray that the output from the new mod is of similar quality than with the CXA mod because the new mod is simply MUCH easier to perform.