MOD GUIDE - Universal RGB-to-YPbPr/Component Circuit & Mod (8/24/2014)

[Keith Courage]

I have one TV that displays the picture slightly darker than its other inputs using this component mod. However, it is brighter on my other TV sets so the issue could be how your TV accepts the signal.

Have you tried it on any other Televisions?

[lastcallhall]

It's on my to do list. My concern is that I've used a different component circuit on the Genesis/SMS with the same TV im using now, and the colors are noticeably brighter between the two circuits, so unless the TV is sensitive to the output driven from the R-Y and B-Y outs, im not entirely convinced that it's the tv. But yeah, I plan on trying it on another set tonight.

[lastcallhall]

Turbokon circuit:



(Sorry about the blurriness!)



Ace/Helder Amp:





I want to be clear, here: I don't think the amps are faulty in any way - they work fine on the Turbo stuff. I just don't know what's going on when I connect them to a non-Turbo console...

[NightWolve]

Ace used a professional RGB Encoder IC (the BA7230LS) I believe, if it's the same guy I'm thinking of, and Steve's circuit design is something you can build from off-shelf RadioShack parts, 2n3904 transistors, caps, resistors and a diode, etc. Transistor video buffer amps/drivers will never perform as well as specialized ICs (likely with internal op-amps) that convert RGB-to-YPbPr. The thing about Steve's circuit is that anyone with some solder skills can build it and cheaply (shopping via eBay!). Not crazy about the pricing of turbo's boards built on the free design, but the full circuit is freely shown here for all of us Do-It-Yourselfers out there (unlike say JROK), so something to consider as far as pros/cons...

Actually, Ace is a cool guy and also released his circuit design, but you gotta buy a custom IC, that BA7230LS chip. Here goes for others:

[lastcallhall]

It's a BA7230LS - I have ~100 of them sitting on my bench. It's just a video encoder. You can get them for a dollar or so if you buy a lot of them (which is how I wound up with ~100 of them)...

I know im being a pain in the ass wanting to get the circuit to work for something other than the Turbo stuff, but I'm really interested in the circuit's output, especially based on the pics that TK put on his thread. The output looks crystal clear, and no jailbars, which is the seller for me. Ace's design still has jailbars on the Model 1 Gennys and the Master Systems. If I can get a clear pic out of the TK board, then Im all for trying to figure this out. I just have no idea where to start...

[NightWolve]

Hm, maybe I'll hit you up and buy a 5 pack off of ya.

[poponon]

There was a newer version released recently:



I'm also interested in grabbing some of those BA7230LS

[lastcallhall]

RE: Ace's circuit. That's a really old design. Here's the current design:



I actually just made a board through OSHPark today that got sent off to fabrication:



In a few weeks I hope to see how they turn out, as I've been using an older design prior to today.

[NightWolve]

Well, that appears to be when you can't obtain a clean source of the H/V Sync, so instead you tap the Composite output and it thus requires buying a Sync stripper. I don't need that, but yeah, others might, so might as well include it here. Is there an update without the stripper ? I'll edit it into my earlier post.

[lastcallhall]

He started adding the LM1881 in version 2.0.

[thesteve]

i wonder how the power usage compares?

[thesteve]

another note, i know the TK board (my circuit) can do better then that on the genesis
during the circuit redesign i was switching between un-amped PCE and GENI SCART for my input
had good results with 75ohm and 220uf in the scart cable and 75ohm to ground after the cable

[MotherGunner]

Now if only rid the TG-16 of jailbars once and for all?

[turbokon]

lastcallhall, I'm curious as why yours as so dark.

Ace used a professional RGB Encoder IC (the BA7230LS) I believe, if it's the same guy I'm thinking of, and Steve's circuit design is something you can build from off-shelf RadioShack parts, 2n3904 transistors, caps, resistors and a diode, etc. Transistor video buffer amps/drivers will never perform as well as specialized ICs (likely with internal op-amps) that convert RGB-to-YPbPr. The thing about Steve's circuit is that anyone with some solder skills can build it and cheaply (shopping via eBay!). Not crazy about the pricing of turbo's boards built on the free design, but the full circuit is freely shown here for all of us Do-It-Yourselfers out there (unlike say JROK), so something to consider as far as pros/cons...

Actually, Ace is a cool guy and also released his circuit design, but you gotta buy a custom IC, that BA7230LS chip. Here goes for others:

night, I would have to disagree with you my friend. Just because you have some soldering skill, doesn't mean you can build the board easily using thesteve's circuit design.  I know I had a heck of a time building the prototype.  Good to do it once that's it.  Even with the prefab boards, still takes a lot of time to put one together, very tedious, all done by hand.  With that, I think my pricing is fair.

[turbokon]

Lastcallhal, where are you getting your signals from?  I tapped every signals off the CXA1145 chip on a model 1 genesis.  I'm still using version 1 component board.

[NightWolve]

If you have enough solder skills, can buy all the parts and want a weekend project, it can be done. "Easily" is not my word, but it is something that requires patience and understanding of schematics, sure. The aim of this thread is to teach people how to do it themselves in principle and not take the easy way out of buying a pre-made board, as nice as it is. Anyway, I don't know the net cost of your boards, but I do know for what it is, what it does, versus what you can buy for the same amount of money, it's not much of a deal, so, just calling it like I see it.

[turbokon]

If you have enough solder skills, can buy all the parts and want a weekend project, it can be done. "Easily" is not my word, but it is something that requires patience and understanding of schematics, sure. The aim of this thread is to teach people how to do it themselves in principle and not take the easy way out of buying a pre-made board, as nice as it is. Anyway, I don't know the net cost of your boards, but I do know for what it is, what it does, versus what you can buy for the same amount of money, it's not much of a deal, so, just calling it like I see it.

If I would have known you can buy something better that already does this at a better price, I wouldn't have invested a lot of time into getting this made.  These are all built by hand.  Not to mentioned the time it took to layout the board design from the circuit and trouble shooting but ok.....

[BlueBMW]

I agree with TK here.  Of course you can build them on your own.  I did just that with the region mod chips back in the day.  Building them on protoboards sucked so I spent the time (hours upon hours) working with thesteve to develop the first region mod chip boards.  Then shelled out significant money up front to get them made and order the appropriate parts.  All in all it was a large investment of time and money to make them.  And that time effort etc was reflected in the price.   These component encoders are at least 3 times as big and have more components and are about twice as expensive.  I think the price is justified.

Anyone is welcome to build it themselves from the info posted here.  And I'll bet if someone ran into trouble building their own TK would gladly help out.   If it's more trouble than its worth for some people then the pre made board is the way to go for some people.  If it saves three or four hours of frustration / lost time then it's definitely a just price.

If you think it can be made and offered cheaper NW... This is America, make it happen!

My $0.02.... carry on.

[lastcallhall]

another note, i know the TK board (my circuit) can do better then that on the genesis
during the circuit redesign i was switching between un-amped PCE and GENI SCART for my input
had good results with 75ohm and 220uf in the scart cable and 75ohm to ground after the cable

Thanks for the tip. I'll try terminating the signals the same way.

Lastcallhal, where are you getting your signals from?  I tapped every signals off the CXA1145 chip on a model 1 genesis.  I'm still using version 1 component board.

I am tapping from pins 21-23 on the CXA1145 for RGB, and I've tried the component out AND the sync out from the DIN-8 jack from the back of the console for a sync signal.

These are the same signals I'm using for Ace's board, too.

[NightWolve]

RE: Ace's circuit. That's a really old design. Here's the current design:



I actually just made a board through OSHPark today that got sent off to fabrication:



In a few weeks I hope to see how they turn out, as I've been using an older design prior to today.

Finally got a response from him. It looks like he made a decision to invest in one single design and make it as universal as possible. He indicates that this way makes both cases of having a clean H/V Sync or a Composite signal the most compatible/universal. Thus, you won't see an update without that Sync Stripping chip by him... I understand, but that's too bad. So a clean H/V Sync is supposed to go through that LM1881 chip as well. Doesn't seem ideal to me, but I don't have Steve's brain to know the pros/cons nor do I know Ace's experiences with how well this is working out, etc. One good chip that also accepted a Sync input would be great to properly mix it internally.

[turbokon]

Looks like low voltage to me.  Might try a different voltage source.  I think thesteve design has a higher power consumption then acer's,

[lastcallhall]

Looks like low voltage to me.  Might try a different voltage source.  I think thesteve design has a higher power consumption then acer's,

I'd like to hear TheSteve's take on this, as the circuit seems to use mostly passive components. I mean, if I can power an IC AND a sync stripper using the same +5v source that I have connected to your circuit, im hesitant to think it's a power consumption issue.

Unless you're suggesting that I tap into the ~11V input voltage for the circuit...

[turbokon]

11v will be over kill, I don't think the transistors can handle more than 7v, have to double check on that.  Passive component also consumes power,  P=Isquare x R.

[thesteve]

as most of the circuit voltages are relative it may run at 11V (not that id recommend it)
could also burn out as it would increase the heat in the transistors
i dont think its low voltage

[thesteve]

slight update
for picture improvement add a 22uf cap across D1
this will reduce noise in the luma circuit and make it less sensitive to different input signal levels
major improvement noted on SNES

[PCEngineHell]

I was kinda curious. On the board Turbokon is selling, is there a way to keep the thing from losing sync on the GBS 8200 when using a Turbo/PCE? Happens during flashing screens. Even on my Toshiba it slightly happens depending on how long the flash is going on, but on the GBS it can completely cripple gameplay. Any thoughts?

[thesteve]

version2 should fix that prof
what version have you tried

[thesteve]

well i have a GBS8200 and a version2 handy so i tried some cards
didnt get a full screen flash on anything, but sync was solid on everything i had handy
LEGEND OF SUSANO has a 3/4 screen flash and it was solid

[Keith Courage]

I've noticed that if you change the Luma gain it can fix the video cutting out problems. some TVs like it higher and some like it lower. this holds true especially when using the older style component board.

one TV that I own requires me to get the luma gain in a sweet spot that isn't too high or too low for the screen to stay constant and solid whereas other TVs I've tested it on have no problem at all.

[MNKyDeth]

I received my RGB to component V2 a day ago and I am now just opening it up.

These are soldered by hand correct? I mean seriously, this thing looks like it was done on a machine! If they are done by a machine ok nvm... but... What size solder diameter are you using?
I am using .032 and I think now that it is too large to be using for super clean solder joints like what I see on this board.

Btw, thanks for a great product for those of us that don't want to do it by hand. I mean really, what is $25 bucks nowadays anyways? Half a tank of gas... One visit to a restaurant by myself... A 12pk of good beer. So yes, thank you and if everything goes good I won't have any questions.

Hopefully get to it this weekend or the next. I still need my Din 8 port and scart cable I am going to use. This weekend if Radio Shack has any of it if not next weekend most likely as I will have to order online.

[mickcris]

These are soldered by hand correct? I mean seriously, this thing looks like it was done on a machine! If they are done by a machine ok nvm... but... What size solder diameter are you using?
I am using .032 and I think now that it is too large to be using for super clean solder joints like what I see on this board.

You will get cleaner looking joints if use extra flux.  Shouldn't have much to do with the solder diameter.  Pick up a something like this (this is what I use):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kester-951-Soldering-Flux-Pen-Low-Solids-No-Clean-10ml-Xbox-360-PS3-Reflows-/360972271403

[MNKyDeth]

Ahh ok, I always use rosin-core solder so assumed the flux already in it was enough. Just added to my list of things to pick up or order. Thank you.

[BlueBMW]

I believe they are assembled by hand but with solder paste and a hot air station or oven.

[PCEngineHell]

well i have a GBS8200 and a version2 handy so i tried some cards
didnt get a full screen flash on anything, but sync was solid on everything i had handy
LEGEND OF SUSANO has a 3/4 screen flash and it was solid

Version I have here is a V2 I believe. It is installed in a Ten No Koe 2. In Side Arms it will happen on the wheel boss if I remember right. On like Neutopia it will happen during the lightning flash at the temple when you first start the game. Any idea on how to fix it? My Toshiba via component in copes with it much better, but the GBS via component in will lose synch for a brief second when that kind of flashing occurs.

[turbokon]

Also adding 1kohm from sync to ground helps with sync issues on some TV set.

[turbokon]

Yep these are assembled by hand using solder paste and hot air gun.  Very tedious I must add.

[turbokon]

Yep these are assembled by hand using solder paste and hot air gun.  Very tedious.

[thesteve]

well i have a GBS8200 and a version2 handy so i tried some cards
didnt get a full screen flash on anything, but sync was solid on everything i had handy
LEGEND OF SUSANO has a 3/4 screen flash and it was solid

Version I have here is a V2 I believe. It is installed in a Ten No Koe 2. In Side Arms it will happen on the wheel boss if I remember right. On like Neutopia it will happen during the lightning flash at the temple when you first start the game. Any idea on how to fix it? My Toshiba via component in copes with it much better, but the GBS via component in will lose synch for a brief second when that kind of flashing occurs.

try adding a cap across the diode. (diode is marked D1, the cap will be - to stripe and will never see over 1V)
that should improve the luma stability and may be enough to get you there
the 1 i tested the GBS on has a 22uf across the diode and is a ver2 board

[PCEngineHell]

well i have a GBS8200 and a version2 handy so i tried some cards
didnt get a full screen flash on anything, but sync was solid on everything i had handy
LEGEND OF SUSANO has a 3/4 screen flash and it was solid

Version I have here is a V2 I believe. It is installed in a Ten No Koe 2. In Side Arms it will happen on the wheel boss if I remember right. On like Neutopia it will happen during the lightning flash at the temple when you first start the game. Any idea on how to fix it? My Toshiba via component in copes with it much better, but the GBS via component in will lose synch for a brief second when that kind of flashing occurs.

try adding a cap across the diode. (diode is marked D1, the cap will be + to stripe and will never see over 1V)
that should improve the luma stability and may be enough to get you there
the 1 i tested the GBS on has a 22uf across the diode and is a ver2 board

Sorry, having an off/tired day, so going to need this to be more specific. When you say stripe, are you referring to the line marking "cathode" on the diode, or the stripe on the cap itself? If the former, I have never heard anyone refer to the cathode end of a surface mount diode as a stripe before, so kinda confusing. I usually only see that term applied to cap's stripe side in reference to the negative polarity of a capacitor.

/diode%20mess_zpsoz0iuags.png

[thesteve]

the cathode on the diode is your -

[thesteve]

looks like i said it wrong the first time anyway

[PCEngineHell]

looks like i said it wrong the first time anyway

So edit your post and fix that shit. People be all confused and like wtf.

[PCEngineHell]

Tried both the 22uf cap on the diode, then the 1k resistor from sync to ground. Neither method had any affect. Sync still drops on the GBS when the lightning flashes on Neutopia at the start of the game, and kinda slightly wavers on my Toshiba. The issue on the Toshiba is more of a nitpick, but the GBS thing is pretty annoying since it cripples gameplay on Side Arms on some of the bosses.

[Keith Courage]

Tried both the 22uf cap on the diode, then the 1k resistor from sync to ground. Neither method had any affect. Sync still drops on the GBS when the lightning flashes on Neutopia at the start of the game, and kinda slightly wavers on my Toshiba. The issue on the Toshiba is more of a nitpick, but the GBS thing is pretty annoying since it cripples gameplay on Side Arms on some of the bosses.

Did you try messing with the luma gain yet? I've come a cross a few TVs that need it set in a specific spot to get the screen to stop being wavy/flickering. Different luma setting for both Tvs I have come across the issue with. Otherwise most other TVs work just fine.

[PCEngineHell]

Nope not yet. Was hoping to just have a solution that wont affect use on other tv's. Honestly at this point I'm not going to worry about it. The Toshiba is fine. The Side Arms flash doesn't affect it, only the lightning bit from Neutopia, and not enough for the screen to stop displaying or anything. The GBS thing sucks, but it's not needed for my Turbo or anything yet.

[thesteve]

if the flash is effecting your TV as well (even if not bad) you could likely make a slight adjustment and solve it without much change to your pic at all

[PCEngineHell]

Yeah, I just don't have to mess with it right now. Maybe next week. Is there a pic somewhere to show what surface mount potentiometers adjust what that I can refer to when I have the time?

[thesteve]

i thought they were marked, but turbokon should have something posted on it as well

[PCEngineHell]

I only recall them being marked R1-3 or something. Outside of that, I am not sure which one adjust what settings.

[thesteve]

R3 is luma
R1 is G/B
R2 is G/R