Sh*t. I'm going to build a supergun, aren't I?

[bartre]

well, as you can guess from the title, I think I've been convinced to build a supergun.
that said, i have no real idea what i'm doing.
from what I understand, I'll need:
Power supply
video encoder (I'm thinking the neobitz one, as that seems to be the best)
Jamma harness
various switches/buttons/sockets (for controller ports, a/v ports, power/test switches)
controllers

So, talk to me like I'm an idiot here, i pretty much have no idea where to get started.
in particular, i'm not sure what to do about audio and casing.

[Bernie]

Get with the professor.  He should have some direction on where to start.

[Opethian]

http://www.jamma-nation-x.com/jammax/supergun.html

amazing document from an amazing guy! his site is a wealth of knowledge.

[bartre]

ope, yeah, i've read that through a couple times, still lost on a couple points.
in particular, i'm having trouble locating a lot of the parts he's talking about, as the links seem to have changed.

that said, I think I need a Neo geo controller/stick/whatever.
anyone got one to spare?

[PCEngineHell]

I would go with a jrok encoder. I found them to just be better in general. Unless something has changed, the Neobitz still relies on the AD724 which is not that great a chip. In fact, the only time I have even seen the chip used in a professional setting as it were, was on Trident VGA cards that had s-video out. If you end up buying one you will end up probably having to buy a sync cleaner from the Jrok guy anyway, because there are a lot of arcade boards out there that have sync issues with the AD724 and AD725. I have found games like Time Killers, Primal Rage, TMNT, Boogie Wings and others have issues with it.

Power supply wise, you can either go with an arcade psu, along with what that entails, or you can go with a older AT, older ATX, or newer ATX one. Newer ATX ones however will not supply -5 volts, which some boards need to run correctly, so depending on your needs you may be doing some voltage converting. If you went with a older AT or ATX, make sure the -5 is at least able to put out .5 amps if possible (more is better), and make sure to get a good quality, reliable brand psu. If used, recap it using good caps. Case wise, you can get a large pactec case to house the parts. You will need a dremel and drill kit to cut and drill holes, and a file to file things down. If you want to maintain DB15 joystick port ability, you will need to order a couple of db15 midi/gameport jacks to use. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-DB15-Male-solder-cups-and-metalized-plastic-hoods-17010-17208-/160965854861?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item257a50068d

As far as the other parts go, contact the makers of the encoders directly I guess, and you can check ebay for power supplies, power switches, pactec cases, jamma harness, etc.

[Mishran]

I've built one using the JNX guide and everything turned out great. Wouldn't exactly call it a Supergun, more like a MVS cab on a 12"x12" piece of pressboard at the moment. Lol

When I get the time, I wanna throw everything in a case (minus the arcade pcb) and make it an actual self contain supergun.

I can post a few pics if anyone is actually remotely curious which I doubt.

Back to the point, it isn't as hard as you think barte. If you can build those cool joystick, you can build a supergun. I'd say the toughest part of it is making and shaping the holes for the various connectors in the case itself.

[xcrement5x]

I've always wondered this with superguns.  Where do you put the PCB after you plug it into the JAMMA connector for the box?  Do you just leave it on the floor or something, or do people make a big enclosure to hold the actual PCB as well? 

It's one of those things that's always kind of turned me off from the concept. It seems like it would always look like half assembled if I had one with a big old PCB hanging off it sitting around somewhere.

[bartre]

I can post a few pics if anyone is actually remotely curious which I doubt.

I'm curious, at least remotely.

that said, I just like to know exactly what i'm getting into before i start something.

So, I'm looking at a few different things right now, ignoring the case issue for now.
I think i'll track down an arcade PSU off the 'bay, get the j-rok encoder (should I get the sync cleaner?)
from there, i think i'll test it out with my sega naomi, but first i'll need to get some kind of controller.
i'm off to shop!
i'll ask here before i actually buy anything though, that way i don't end up with a stack of sh*t i don't need.

EDIT:
will this work for a PSU?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/15A-Arcade-Switching-Power-Supply-110W-110-220V-w-5-/271146725809?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f219ab1b1

[SignOfZeta]

Since there is little standardization in JAMMA PCB form factor there really isn't any way to mount anything that wouldn't have to be undone every time you change games. You should never put a PCB on the floor though, that would be idiotic.

Back in the day the MAS Supernova was the most popular supergun in the US. It wasn't that great (horrible video) but it was housed in a huge MDF box which would do a good job serving as the platform for your boards when in play. It looked like countertop and served as well as one.

Some boards are almost retail ready they have such nice enclosures, Triforce, CPS2 and Atomiswave for example, most are just huge giant fragile PCBs. A CPS3 or a Naomi rig can get rather unwieldy.

[bust3dstr8]

My buddy just finished a test rig and he found and easy mod to use a Genesis pad
as 3 button Jamma. He also used that same shitty Chinese PSU and the -5 died on it
in under a week. I would pay a few more buck and get a real Chou power supply.
If you are using this on a modern TV you can skip the video converters and just
use a VGA upscaler since most have the DB15 in the back.

http://www.betson.com/products/parts/IMP-44-1015


/replicax/Arcade/testbench.jpg

[Mishran]

/img0606gf.jpg
/img0607oh.jpg
/img0608ta.jpg

Pics aren't the clearest, but this is it, my "consolized MVS"  . Nothing pretty, but compact and fully functional. Everything has been set up to be fully accessible. The small red and black buttons behind the front panel is the test and service switches, two red button on the front are the coin switch, and the black rocker in the middle is the power switch. I built the thing to work with the MV-1FZ, so the sound is in mono. I used one of those cheap VGA boards to connect it to a TV or computer monitor.

The switching power supply sucks bad. It pushes enough amps to run the connected devices, but it can't handle my 4 slot MVS board or my hyper 64. When/If I choose to convert it into a supergun, I'm going to invest in a better PSU.

[Opethian]

sigma makes some of the best superguns in japan. this is an older model but works wonders.

[bartre]

I would pay a few more buck and get a real Chou power supply.

like either of these?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARCADE-Power-Supply-220V-110V-Adjustable-OFFICIAL-HAPP-CONTROLS-5V-5V-12V-/111006789140?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d8852e14
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARCADE-CHERRY-MASTER-used-11-AMP-Peter-Chou-POWER-SUPPLY-5-12-5-Multicade-/221183595634?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337f91d472

What kind of stats should I look for in a psu?
the JNX guide ope linked to stated that i should look for at least 6A on the 5V line, and 1A on the others.
is that going to be enough, or should I get more? I know it won't hurt, but is it necessary?

so my current thoughts:
box - no biggie, use a project box or build one from plexi/wood.
controllers - no biggie, already got the spare parts
harness - just need to buy one, again, no biggie
Video - jrok, i guess, but do I need a sync cleaner?
audio - the big question, do i need an amp? how do i control the volume? tell me what to do on this one.

EDIT:
damn ope, every time you post something of yours, i get a bit jealous.
that said, that button layout looks a little odd.

[bust3dstr8]

I would pay a few more buck and get a real Chou power supply.

like either of these?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARCADE-Power-Supply-220V-110V-Adjustable-OFFICIAL-HAPP-CONTROLS-5V-5V-12V-/111006789140?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d8852e14
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARCADE-CHERRY-MASTER-used-11-AMP-Peter-Chou-POWER-SUPPLY-5-12-5-Multicade-/221183595634?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337f91d472


audio - the big question, do i need an amp? how do i control the volume? tell me what to do on this one.

A 12Amp(+5)  3Amp(+12) will run anything you want to do. Big hungry boards with the vid encoder and a fan
will be no problem...shit you could get all Neotropolis and run 20 LEDs too.

For sound you want to do the opposite. Tap the jamma edge and then build attenuation circuit.
You can use the volume controls on the pcb or add a pot to the supergun for control.

[Tatsujin]

My selfmade MAK/Supergun from 1996

/ags3.jpg

unfortunately there's nothing left of it today

[bartre]

okay, so as to the power, does this plan work?
/Untitled-1-1.gif

For the audio attenuation circuit, it says to use a DPST switch, which is really confusing me.
what exactly does it do? how?

[SignOfZeta]

You don't really have to worry about making diagrams and stuff, assigning them to pins. If you buy a harness from a place like http://www.jammaboards.com they are all labeled and even have the exact terminals you need to connect them to their power supply.

[bartre]

well thanks for that, zeta; just like to be thorough though.
I think this is what i'm going to use for the core part of my Supergun:
PSU - http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARCADE-CHERRY-MASTER-used-11-AMP-Peter-Chou-POWER-SUPPLY-5-12-5-Multicade-/221183595634?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337f91d472

Video encoder - J-rok

Harness - was just going to buy the one off jammaboards.com but is there any real difference between Jamma and Jamma+?

Case - slab of wood for now, will upgrade to a nicer project box at some point

misc. other parts:
http://www.jammaboards.com/store/power-emi-filter-with-built-in-switch-emi-pf06g.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pack-DB15-Female-d-sub-Solder-Cup-Connector-New-17209-/390530429075?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5aed6d7093
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-DB15-Male-solder-cups-and-metalized-plastic-hoods-17010-17208-/160965854861?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item257a50068d
along with some varied switches and buttons

[Tatsujin]

I made my first supergun without the internetz, there was a simple harness explanation in one of our german game mags back in 1992 or so, that I used as a reference. first try and it worked like boss

[bust3dstr8]

okay, so as to the power, does this plan work?
/Untitled-1-1.gif

For the audio attenuation circuit, it says to use a DPST switch, which is really confusing me.
what exactly does it do? how?

It just switches between straight audio and attenuated audio.
The sound setup doesn't need the switch, you can design it to what suits you.

[majors]

I made a supergun once. I had an old metal case for some science equipment that I thought would convert nice. The idea was to have a all-in-one design. Controls and sound with an enclosure to hold boards.

/supergun_outside.jpg
/supergun_inside.jpg

After getting more cabs, this was moot. I have raped it for parts over the years but I still have the old jrok composite/s-vid encoder that I no longer need. JAMMA is pretty simple, it's all direct connections. I have seen all sorts of crazy supergun setups on the internets, some are TINY using an external power supply.

[bartre]

gah, I'm an idiot.
I should have just gone for the BIN on ebay, but the PSU went for close to $35 or something, i stopped caring after $25.
so i do a little more searching, and find a local company that specializes in that amusement repair.
whaddaya know, $25.

once the encoder gets here, i can get started for reals.

[bartre]

OF COURSE!
I get to the place to give them my money for the PSU, and they change their mind, they want $45!
I pass that up, get home, and buy one online for $30.

anywho, big question still buzzing in my head.
this is supposedly a DPST switch, according the jamma nation x:



but that doesn't make sense, a DPST switch is set up with 4 pins.
what am I missing here?

[SignOfZeta]

That sure looks like a DPDT switch to me.

I suppose I should have posted a link to this earlier:

http://www.jammaboards.com/store/15a-arcade-switching-power-supply-with-digital-display-110w-pwr-p032.html

[majors]

http://www.jammaboards.com/store/15a-arcade-switching-power-supply-with-digital-display-110w-pwr-p032.html

That is kinda swank, you can check your 5v easy! Since I only have one game that needs -5v for sound, I've been hacking computer PSU's for my needs. The upside it it has 3.3v needed for CR-ROM systems. They also have self regulating outputs, so no need to adjust 12/5/3.3v.

Barte -> Get that Jrok yet?

[bartre]

Barte -> Get that Jrok yet?

yuppers, looks good to me, but i have no way to test it just yet.

That sure looks like a DPDT switch to me.

that's what i thought! but every single reference calls it DPST.
so i'm confused, is it some special kind of switch, is it an error, or am I just an idiot?

[bartre]

alright, so got the power supply, and wouldn't you know it, got another problem...
The PSU won't give me a voltage lower than 6.6v off the 5v line, unfortunately that's as low as i think it will go.
any ideas on what to do about that?

[SignOfZeta]

You have to adjust it with the board running. There is no draw on it now.

Btw, a lot of boards are really fragile, supposedly crapping out if even given .5V more than needed, so make sure you dial it in corectly.

[bartre]

so I need to have everything set up before I adjust it?
that seems counter intuitive.
Everything i've looked at said to get it dialed in before hooking anything up.
Ex: http://www.hardmvs.com/html/powerBoard2.htm

[SignOfZeta]

You can't measure working voltage on a incomplete circuit. The PCB will pull the voltage down.

EDIT: Which power supply did you end up getting? I just verified the one I got from jammaboards.com ranges only from the high 4s to the low 6s and if set to 5.0 it stays there when the board is installed. This is either because it does a good job of regulating or because the CPS2 I hooked up doesn't draw much current.

[bartre]

I got this one, judging by what i've heard, it's a good brand and all that
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330870436101?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

[SignOfZeta]

OK, mine is a lot like that but has a built in volt meter so maybe its better self regulating as well. I say turn the reg down all the way and keep the DVOM hooked up when powering up for the first time. If it still shows high voltage then junk it and buy the one I linked to.

If you don't want to risk toasting a board then get some sort of 1A load, like a motor or a heating element or something and run that off the 5V to see what the voltage drops to then. Maybe try wiring a USB socket to it and charging your phone. Most phones use 5V and probably half an amp when the battery is low.

[bartre]

alright, I'll give it a shot that way, but i suppose i better move quick, in case i need to return this thing...
that would be fair grounds to send it back, right?

[majors]

Seller listed it saying "tested, correct voltages", but it is only 15 bucks. I've have Chou PSU's before, and no issues with power. I do have a dead one also, but it arrived that way (left in a cabinet). When you adjust the pot, do you see a change on the meter? I seem to recall that 12v will not change, but that could have just been me.

Welcome to the world of arcade collecting, pop'd your cherry early. The hobby where everything breaks.

[roflmao]

Welcome to the world of arcade collecting, pop'd your cherry early. The hobby where everything breaks.

This has been a very interesting read so far.  I hope you keep it going, bartre. 

I've wanted to jump into getting a cab and collecting pcbs, but the learning curve and amount of maintenance has held me at bay.  One of my other hobbies is RC helicopters and my first heli has everything replaced.  There's hardly anything original on it.  I'm not too sure I want to get into another hobby with that kind of commitment.  But it's so tempting. 

[bust3dstr8]

Did you check the 120V-240V jumper?

[Nec.Game.head]

Looks like your being lead in the right direction with building your Supergun bartre .. I'm actually also looking in to build a Supergun myself the only problem is I don't know were to buy a jrok video encoder from .. Any leads you guys on were I can find one ?? Looking forward to seeing the end results of your Supergun build bartre ...

[Gogan]

Looks like your being lead in the right direction with building your Supergun bartre .. I'm actually also looking in to build a Supergun myself the only problem is I don't know were to buy a jrok video encoder from .. Any leads you guys on were I can find one ?? Looking forward to seeing the end results of your Supergun build bartre ...

Buy one from...jrok!

http://www.jrok.com/hardware/RGBv4/index.html

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah, guys, fuck eBay. Seriously.

[bartre]

Seller listed it saying "tested, correct voltages", but it is only 15 bucks. I've have Chou PSU's before, and no issues with power. I do have a dead one also, but it arrived that way (left in a cabinet). When you adjust the pot, do you see a change on the meter? I seem to recall that 12v will not change, but that could have just been me.

Welcome to the world of arcade collecting, pop'd your cherry early. The hobby where everything breaks.

yeah, i did see a change in the 5v, didn't bother with checking the other two.
it ranged from (now, tested again) 5.92-7.66

Did you check the 120V-240V jumper?

yeah, it's set to 120v, US.

[bartre]

FIXED.
woo.

changed one of the big caps on the board since the seller was only going to refund the purchase price, and not the shipping.
got a slightly lower voltage before adding a load (~5.7v) and after charging a bum phone, got it to go as low as 4.5.

MOVING ON, I'LL FINALLY GET STARTED ON THIS.

[bartre]

/42969510151543381059402.jpg

sooo.....
yeah.


anyway, new problem.
the PSU is emitting a high-pitched squeal.
would a recap fix this?

[SignOfZeta]

I think it's time to throw that piece of shit in the trash, personally.

[esteban]

I think it's time to throw that piece of shit in the trash, personally.

Haahhahahhahahhaha.

[fraggore]

interesting thread i am just in the process of setting up my old dreamcast arcade stick that i modded into a supergun years ago was boarded one weekend, i put extra sockets on it so i could use it as a supergun or plug in a adapted joypad to use it on ps2, snes, xbox 360 or pc well handy.
also did a full sanwa joystick and button upgrade.

As i am in the uk i didn't need a video encoder just wired it to rgb scart and i have arcade PSU for it , i used to build them and sell on ebay but the money dropped out of the market, the ones i sold i used old AT PSU's on them all seemed to work fine whatever boards i used never had any come back, a jamma PSU is the way to as you can adjust the 5v some boards need it.

just ordered kof 2003 on jamma going to get it up and running when it turns up. i want a neo geo back so when i got some more cash going to get a neogeo 1 slot and a multi game cartridge for it or i could consolize the neogeo it self.

[bartre]

alright, PSU problem solved, got it tested and working great.
fixed up a couple other things, and i'm just about ready to go!

as for a case, i was probably going to use this, as i can't find too much that would work, it seems:
http://www.polycase.com/wa-35

one other question though; I have seen several superguns wrap the external portion of the harness with mesh wire sleeving and taping it off with some heat shrink.
what size sleeving/heat shrink should I use if i want to do the same, and what should i use as a grommet for the hole in the case i'll have to cut?

[majors]

Dunno the size, but a PC mod store should have the cable sleeving and shrink. For the grommet bushing, I'd just steal one from another PSU.

[bartre]

so, a semi related question here -
i'm also going to consolize a neo geo mobo when this is done.
i'm seeing them listed on YJA as low as 1,500 yen for a MV-1FZ.
would it be worth it to import one off there (in a box of other stuff, of course) versus buying one off ebay?

[majors]

You can prolly track one down on the forums if you not in a hurry. I know I'm on the watch for a 1 or 2 slot for Blue. You thinking $30-40 range? Are you dead set on the smaller 1FZ model? I have one currently, but I'm not hard set on it if I find a MV-1, I'd swap and sell it.

[bartre]

honestly, not really dead set, but it seems like a good one to me.
basically, the only one i don't want to use is a MV-1, just too damned big.