PC Engine Hucard soundtracks that use sampled drums

VenomMacbeth · 04/16/2013, 05:06 PM

Because let's face it, typically the chip-produced drum tones don't really compete with samples IMHO. So, what games are there like this? I'll start working on a list here...

Soldier Blade
Override
Super Star Soldier
Fighting Run
Dead Moon
Batman
Shubibinman 1 & 2
Final Soldier
Bonks/PC Genjins
Devil's Crush
Blazing Lazers
Somer Assault
Time Cruise
1943
Coryoon
Air Zonk
Energy
21 Emon
Metal Stoker
Champions Forever Boxing
Populous
Cyber Core
Toilet Kids
Zipang
Bravoman
Hisou Kaiserd
Granzort
Motoroader 1 & 2
1942 Kai
Hana Taka Daka
Salamander
Gradius
Detana Twinbee
Parodius Da!
Hit the Ice
Xevious Fardraut Saga

Arkhan Asylum · 04/16/2013, 06:12 PM

Bonk uses them.

Tatsujin does also.

SignOfZeta · 04/16/2013, 07:14 PM

When they do I can hardly tell.

VenomMacbeth · 04/16/2013, 08:10 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/16/2013, 07:14 PMWhen they do I can hardly tell.

Really!? You should compare tracks from Soldier Blade to, say, Thunder Blade. There's a pretty noticeable difference in quality.

Tatsujin · 04/16/2013, 08:23 PM

But that quality difference can have several other reasons.

SuperDeadite · 04/16/2013, 08:48 PM

Coryoon has the best Huey drums on the system.

VenomMacbeth · 04/16/2013, 09:57 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/16/2013, 08:23 PMBut that quality difference can have several other reasons.

Like the fact that Thunder Blade isn't great in general?

Well then, compare it to After Burner or Veigues...or even Raiden!

SignOfZeta · 04/17/2013, 12:19 AM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/16/2013, 08:23 PMBut that quality difference can have several other reasons.

Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is that the difference between a white noise based snare and a crappy sample of a snare is...pretty small.

CrackTiger · 04/17/2013, 12:56 AM

Quote from: VenomMacbeth on 04/16/2013, 05:06 PMBecause let's face it, typically the chip-produced drum tones don't really compete with samples IMHO. So, what games are there like this? The only ones I can think of are the Soldier games, and Gunhed, but there must be more.

Let's face it, PCE (and Genesis) chip sound drums are awesome. Samples can be cool too and it can often be hard to tell if a game is using chip sound or samples for drums. I believe that I started one of the previous sampled drum threads, that should give you a nice list.

Some off the top of my head:

Devil's Crush
Time Cruise
BlaZing LaZers
Super star Soldier
Final Soldier
Soldier Blade
Batman
Somer Assault
Shubibinman
1943
Coryoon
Air Zonk
Energy
21 Emon
Override
Metal Stoker
Champions Forever Boxing
Populous
Cyber Core
Toilet Kids
Zipang
Bravoman
Granzort
Hisou Kaiserd
Motoroader II
Cyber Knight
Sinistron

CD chip tunes with (likely use at least some adpcm) drum samples:

Dragon Slayer
Cyber City OEDO 808
Genocide

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/17/2013, 12:19 AM
Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/16/2013, 08:23 PMBut that quality difference can have several other reasons.
Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is that the difference between a white noise based snare and a crappy sample of a snare is...pretty small.

Wow.

SmaMan · 04/17/2013, 01:14 AM

Moto Roader uses them too. Sounds pretty cool, though that soundtrack's pretty nice in a minimalist sort of way.

It's not PC Engine, but ever play Seiken Denestsu 3 on the Super Famicom? The sampled drums there always seem to stick out in my mind the most. For example:

Arkhan Asylum · 04/17/2013, 01:14 PM

Everything on SFC is a sample, though.

Some of the drum sampling is pretty much a "yeah thats cool". I think he drums in Bonk's Adventure are probably the best use of sampled drums, because of the congo bongo vibe they give out.

_Paul · 04/18/2013, 01:08 PM

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 04/17/2013, 01:14 PMEverything on SFC is a sample, though.

Some of the drum sampling is pretty much a "yeah thats cool". I think he drums in Bonk's Adventure are probably the best use of sampled drums, because of the congo bongo vibe they give out.

Thay're samples? Are you sure? I'm not buying it.

Also, Tatsujin drums are chip generated. This I know for certain.

Arkhan Asylum · 04/18/2013, 02:00 PM

Quote from: guest on 04/18/2013, 01:08 PMThay're samples? Are you sure? I'm not buying it.

I am pretty sure the bongos are samples. If not, they're really fucking well done and I'd love to know how they accomplished it.

QuoteAlso, Tatsujin drums are chip generated. This I know for certain.

Hmm. I always remembered them being sampled. I just checked though, turns out, they're not! That's good to know.

This probably means Zeta is on the right track with the whole "not a big deal" thing.

a lot of the chip generated drums sound perfectly fine and you end up remembering them as samples, apparently.

_Paul · 04/18/2013, 05:10 PM

Tatsujin is a bit of an exception as its chips drums are some much more awesome than 99% of others.
City Hunter has a few good chip drums as well. It's a pity that NEC Avenue couldn't sort themselves out, every time I hear their attempt at drum sounds, vomit pours out of my ears.

Bugger me, you may be right about PC Genjin sample drums. Cutting out the other channels, there is a definite hiss behind the drum sounds that you'd get from a sample.

Arkhan Asylum · 04/18/2013, 05:18 PM

Quote from: guest on 04/18/2013, 05:10 PMTatsujin is a bit of an exception as its chips drums are some much more awesome than 99% of others.

Yeah, the snare is really thick and thumpy, which is why I recalled it being a sample. Turns out they just did a really good job.

QuoteBugger me, you may be right about PC Genjin sample drums. Cutting out the other channels, there is a definite hiss behind the drum sounds that you'd get from a sample.

I am hoping its a sample, otherwise I need to figure out how the hell they made bongos without samples.

Here's a question, what do people think of MY chiptune drum sounds?

SignOfZeta · 04/18/2013, 05:23 PM

You'd think that with something like a bongo that chip tunes would be better, as long as bongos can be somewhat aproximated. The low grade samples used on PCE (especialy with HuCARDs) are going to be really aliased and scratchy but the chip makes really smooth tones.

Super Star Solider has some synth cool tom sounds that I'm pretty sure are PSG because it seems like they wouldn't sound that great as samples (plus, they'd eat more memory). Of course, I'm not skillful enough with an emulator or other debugging stuff to actually verify this one way or another.

Regarding the SNES, there are a lot of samples used with it. That's kind of the way it was designed. However, it has so many ways of manipulating samples in real time that it can do a lot more than just playing files in a sequence. Samples are very...plastic...on the SNES, very flexible. You can use a sample that is something pretty low fi but sort of rescue it with pitch adjustments, reverb, delay, etc. Sadly this is hugely overdone but when handled correctly can be amazing. Games like Mother 2 and Yoshi's Island have incredible soundtracks.

However, it's also possible to synthesize drums on the SNES, which people are going to want to do for many reasons.

Arkhan Asylum · 04/18/2013, 05:35 PM

Certain tones are easy to approximate with the chip, especially tom-rolling jive.

see: Aldynes.

EDIT: Oh, and, I am pretty sure SSS uses samples for the toms. I've honestly never verified it, but given their quality, it's another one of those things where I would really like to know how the hell they did it if its coaxed out of the chip instead of being sampled.

SignOfZeta · 04/18/2013, 06:48 PM

Those toms are so rad.

Digi.k · 04/19/2013, 11:03 AM

Quote from: SuperDeadite on 04/16/2013, 08:48 PMCoryoon has the best Huey drums on the system.

ooo well they are clear

for me the best samples come from Dragon saber

others are:

1942 kai
Parodius DA!
Detana twin bee !?!
Salamander
Gradius
Hana Taka daka!?

Not sure if this: Jigoku Meguri title has drum samples but I remember loving the sounds of the japanese percussion in some tracks.

Digi.k · 04/19/2013, 11:09 AM

Quote from: SmaMan on 04/17/2013, 01:14 AMMoto Roader uses them too. Sounds pretty cool, though that soundtrack's pretty nice in a minimalist sort of way.

It's not PC Engine, but ever play Seiken Denestsu 3 on the Super Famicom? The sampled drums there always seem to stick out in my mind the most. For example:

the 2nd game Motor Roader 2 has a phenomenal title track.. unfortunately the rest of the music tracks lack the ooomph imo..

_Paul · 04/19/2013, 01:46 PM

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 04/18/2013, 05:18 PMHere's a question, what do people think of MY chiptune drum sounds?

The ones in Atlantean are great. A hint of C64 to them

Arkhan Asylum · 04/19/2013, 02:24 PM

I like the way the kick drum turned out. I used it in the redo Insanity chiptunes also.

Mathius · 04/19/2013, 11:09 PM

Wish I could contribute to this awesome thread. Keep it rolling.

On the subject of samples...in Batman I hear some "Konami arcade-like" sounds during some of its tracks. Is this actually "sampled"? Or do you guys even know what I am talking about lol

esteban · 04/20/2013, 01:26 AM

So, can one of the gurus go back and tell us serfs what games are VERIFIED to be using PSG vs. Sample? I want to listen to stuff and make comparisons...but I'm still not sure on all the games listed by different folks.

MASTALIST, please...

SmaMan · 04/20/2013, 11:39 AM

Quote from: Mathius on 04/19/2013, 11:09 PMWish I could contribute to this awesome thread. Keep it rolling.

On the subject of samples...in Batman I hear some "Konami arcade-like" sounds during some of its tracks. Is this actually "sampled"? Or do you guys even know what I am talking about lol

You mean from this Batman:

I'm going to make an educated guess the drums are sampled. I actually do a bit of digital composing, and I normally tell the difference through how the cymbal sounds. I'll try to find a better example some time.

I'm wondering, though, if the PCE can handle two PCM channels? I know the NES could only do one. I hear the "Konami-style" orchestral hits which are definitely samples, right along side the percussion track. The rest of the song sounds PSG though.

_Paul · 04/20/2013, 12:18 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 04/19/2013, 11:09 PMWish I could contribute to this awesome thread. Keep it rolling.

On the subject of samples...in Batman I hear some "Konami arcade-like" sounds during some of its tracks. Is this actually "sampled"? Or do you guys even know what I am talking about lol

There are drums and notes that are sampled. You can go through them if you have the sound rip.

CrackTiger · 04/20/2013, 01:14 PM

Quote from: SmaMan on 04/20/2013, 11:39 AM
Quote from: Mathius on 04/19/2013, 11:09 PMWish I could contribute to this awesome thread. Keep it rolling.

On the subject of samples...in Batman I hear some "Konami arcade-like" sounds during some of its tracks. Is this actually "sampled"? Or do you guys even know what I am talking about lol
You mean from this Batman:

https://youtu.be/3WfjX_u19z0

I'm going to make an educated guess the drums are sampled. I actually do a bit of digital composing, and I normally tell the difference through how the cymbal sounds. I'll try to find a better example some time.

I'm wondering, though, if the PCE can handle two PCM channels? I know the NES could only do one. I hear the "Konami-style" orchestral hits which are definitely samples, right along side the percussion track. The rest of the song sounds PSG though.

The base PC Engine can do 6 channels of samples at once.

SmaMan · 04/22/2013, 11:16 AM

6 wave PCM channels? Wow, this thing really was a beast for an 8-bit processor circa 1988, though I guess there were a lot of arcade boards that were entirely samples at that point.

ccovell · 04/23/2013, 02:45 AM

Only difference is that arcade hardware usually had audio hardware that could play samples automatically (no CPU intervention), or a dedicated sound CPU to update sample channels. The PCE has to byte-bang sample values manually, so doing a decent sampling rate on all 6 channels would tie up the CPU. Forget about actual gaming while samples are played.

SFII is about the best example of a smooth game with 2 sample channels going.

TurboXray · 04/24/2013, 07:48 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 04/19/2013, 11:09 PMWish I could contribute to this awesome thread. Keep it rolling.

On the subject of samples...in Batman I hear some "Konami arcade-like" sounds during some of its tracks. Is this actually "sampled"? Or do you guys even know what I am talking about lol

Batman uses up to three channels to play samples, but normally only uses two. A few other PCE games do this too; the third channel being dynamic for samples or normal channel tones. The orchestra hit is the one you're probably referring to. The game uses drums for one sampled channel, and bass guitar for another sampled channel. I posted about this on a thread, a while back, but it's pretty unique to the pce how Batman goes about doing the bass guitar; there's an attack sample for the pluck and a looping sample for the rest of it, followed by volume envelope shaping. It sounds pretty good, is cpu resource light (in comparison with fixed point resampling), and doesn't take up much space. It reminded me of L.A. synthesis approach in some ways, albeit much more primitive. I.e. the attack phase being the most complicated part of instrument replication and you cheat it by mixing in samples for that part.

Check it out: http://pcedev.net/audio/batman.zip (the file is already assembled, so just run the PCE file). You can select different note pitches with the gamepad.

I always though Bomberman 3 and 4 had great sounding non sampled drumkits.

CrackTiger · 04/24/2013, 08:10 PM

Although it's likely not the most cpu intensive game, Champions Forever Boxing always runs between 4 - 6 channels of good quality samples at once. Each sample is run through 2 channels at once, so you're hearing 2 - 3 different samples at a time. I don't know if that's as easy for the hardware to do as only running 2 - 3 samples through 2 - 3 channels at once.

TurboXray · 04/24/2013, 08:53 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 04/18/2013, 05:23 PMSuper Star Solider has some synth cool tom sounds that I'm pretty sure are PSG because it seems like they wouldn't sound that great as samples (plus, they'd eat more memory). Of course, I'm not skillful enough with an emulator or other debugging stuff to actually verify this one way or another.

Last I had remembered, they were samples (I had done a sample rip of the rom at some point). I looked again right now though, they're samples. Almost everything on channel 6 is a sample (drums/claps/etc) with the exception of the hihat-ish thing; that's a whitenoise channel sound. A lot of sample aliasing harshness is lost when it's played along with other sounds; Blazing Lazers voices for the power ups is a good example (they sound really bad when played without the BG music).

ParanoiaDragon · 04/25/2013, 01:34 AM

Fighting Run is a good example of a ton of sampled material, similar to Batman. Besides drums it's got bass guitar's n' such.

CrackTiger · 04/25/2013, 07:52 PM

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 04/25/2013, 01:34 AMFighting Run is a good example of a ton of sampled material, similar to Batman. Besides drums it's got bass guitar's n' such.

Yeah, Fighting Run is more impressive than SFII'. I never actually spent much time with it, but after listening to the sound rom, it blew me away. Regardless of what may or may not be happening on a technical level, the way that they effectively used such great sounding samples is amazing. I don't know if sampled sfx cancel out sampled bgm instruments, but it almost always sounds like there's a bunch of samples playing. I wonder if they ate up half the rom.

VenomMacbeth · 05/05/2013, 03:14 AM

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 04/25/2013, 01:34 AMFighting Run is a good example of a ton of sampled material, similar to Batman. Besides drums it's got bass guitar's n' such.

On a somewhat unrelated note, is Fighting Run any good? I can't find much about it & most of what I've turned up says it's crap. It's dirt cheap, though...so I'm hoping there's at least some fun to be had here.

Digi.k · 05/05/2013, 06:36 AM

Quote from: guest on 04/25/2013, 07:52 PM
Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 04/25/2013, 01:34 AMFighting Run is a good example of a ton of sampled material, similar to Batman. Besides drums it's got bass guitar's n' such.
Yeah, Fighting Run is more impressive than SFII'. I never actually spent much time with it, but after listening to the sound rom, it blew me away. Regardless of what may or may not be happening on a technical level, the way that they effectively used such great sounding samples is amazing. I don't know if sampled sfx cancel out sampled bgm instruments, but it almost always sounds like there's a bunch of samples playing. I wonder if they ate up half the rom.

I think that is certainly the case with Tatsujin where sfx cancels out some bgm instruments. I don't remember

Quote from: VenomMacbeth on 05/05/2013, 03:14 AM
Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 04/25/2013, 01:34 AMFighting Run is a good example of a ton of sampled material, similar to Batman. Besides drums it's got bass guitar's n' such.
On a somewhat unrelated note, is Fighting Run any good? I can't find much about it & most of what I've turned up says it's crap. It's dirt cheap, though...so I'm hoping there's at least some fun to be had here.

may have some enjoyment in short game plays.. but gets quite tedious. Hmmm I might have to get this some day. Also hit the ice might have sample drums.

ParanoiaDragon · 05/07/2013, 04:58 PM

Quote from: VenomMacbeth on 05/05/2013, 03:14 AM
Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 04/25/2013, 01:34 AMFighting Run is a good example of a ton of sampled material, similar to Batman. Besides drums it's got bass guitar's n' such.
On a somewhat unrelated note, is Fighting Run any good? I can't find much about it & most of what I've turned up says it's crap. It's dirt cheap, though...so I'm hoping there's at least some fun to be had here.

I kind of like it. It's just one of those odd quirky games that I tend to get interested in. I remember seeing pics of it BITD in Die Hard ads, & wanting it ever since. I've never played beat it though, maybe someday.

Digi.k · 05/09/2015, 06:17 AM

Quote from: TurboXray on 04/24/2013, 07:48 PMI always though Bomberman 3 and 4 had great sounding non sampled drumkits.

This is a really old thread and I love the bomberman 3 tunes... but now I wonder if they really are drum samples although there are some tunes that have sampling in them..

Anyway can we also add in hit the ice, Tricky ? and perhaps Xevious Fardraut saga to the list ??

CrackTiger · 05/09/2015, 10:55 AM

All three Bomberman HuCard games have sample-free soundtracks. They just make good use of chip sound, like LoXII.

VenomMacbeth · 05/09/2015, 11:23 AM

I'm glad this thread was revived ^-^

I wonder where the guys that used these samples got them? For instance, compare the drums in Dead Moon to those in Shinobi 3 on the genesis, or Shadow Squadron on the 32x. They're so similar I'm wondering if they're from the same source (drum machine?)

Psycho Punch · 05/09/2015, 12:44 PM

Dead Moon's intro is pretty interesting and I'm surprised it's not in this 2013 thread. I can't find a good video of it though.

I wonder why they cut out the giant scrolling letters from the Natsume published version's intro.

Digi.k · 05/13/2015, 09:17 AM

Quote from: VenomMacbeth on 05/09/2015, 11:23 AMI'm glad this thread was revived ^-^

I wonder where the guys that used these samples got them? For instance, compare the drums in Dead Moon to those in Shinobi 3 on the genesis, or Shadow Squadron on the 32x. They're so similar I'm wondering if they're from the same source (drum machine?)

I was wondering if the the same composers worked on those games...

composers:

Shadow Squadron 32X:
Teruhiko Nakagawa
Masaru Setsumaru
Naofumi Hataya

deadmoon:

Shinobi 3

ah well..

IGS games seems like most of them use drum samples.

Tricky
Violent Soldier

Digi.k · 05/14/2015, 09:52 PM

Think we can add these???

fire pro wrestling 2nd bout

fire pro wrestling 3rd bout

Formation soccer 90
Formation Soccer On J League

Final Match Tennis

Also I cannot tell if Altered Beast has sampled drums especially when you fully power up and the upbeat music track plays.

CrackTiger · 05/14/2015, 10:09 PM

Altered Beast is all chip sound.

Digi.k · 05/14/2015, 10:29 PM

Quote from: guest on 05/14/2015, 10:09 PMAltered Beast is all chip sound.

that's what I'm thinking but there is a certain drum beat in there that is confusing me >_>

also has no one mentioned Street Fighter II up till now ?

esteban · 05/15/2015, 06:41 AM

Quote from: Digi.k on 05/14/2015, 10:29 PM
Quote from: guest on 05/14/2015, 10:09 PMAltered Beast is all chip sound.
that's what I'm thinking but there is a certain drum beat in there that is confusing me >_>

also has no one mentioned Street Fighter II up till now ?

There was an old thread where folks listed games with sampled drums... If we scraped that for info, we could create a "master list"...

Digi.k · 05/20/2015, 02:14 AM

gonna have to add power tennis to this as well, Sounds very much like jackie chan's action kung fu

Digi.k · 05/20/2015, 09:01 AM

Naxat Stadium
power eleven ?
pc genjin 2

CrackTiger · 05/21/2015, 01:47 PM

I believe that Power Eleven uses samples, mainly because of the bit of scratchiness. It's hard to tell with many games, because too many other games have such perfect chip-based drums.

Digi.k · 05/23/2015, 08:12 PM

Quote from: esteban on 05/15/2015, 06:41 AMThere was an old thread where folks listed games with sampled drums... If we scraped that for info, we could create a "master list"...

Kinda thinking about it .. but I doubt it will ever be 100% accurate list.

But also gonna add :

Nekketsu Koukou Dodgeball Soccer
Takkahashi meijin no shin bokken jima