Would you be interested in buying a professionally-made chopsado? (Updated!)

[ishiyakazuo]

Hi all,
I'm interested in making somewhat professional "chopsado" flex boards, but the cost is somewhat prohibitive for me to do without first gauging some interest as far as whether or not anyone would be interested in such things. They'd cost a few bucks per, including an instruction sheet and sticky tape on the underside to hold it to the HuCard.
To be clear, I'm not asking for any money up front, but just whether or not people would be willing to shell out a few bucks for such a thing, if I was to get them produced in bulk. I'm thinking it'd probably be $4 shipped for one, and $30 for 10, but the prices could be even less than that, depending on the amount of interest I get.
Any profit I would make on this would then be turned into seed money for other PCE/TG16-related projects going forward.
Thanks for your time, and looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this!

UPDATE: This is happening!
They are tentatively called "TurboPosers" (because they are TurboGrafx interposers) but it's not written on the boards at all, so you can call it whatever you want.
They are on order, and will hopefully be available by the end of January if all goes well.  (If all doesn't go well, it might involve waiting a few more weeks for them to fix it.)

UPDATE #2 (12/27): They are on their way!
The board house over in HK tells me that they have shipped them my way.  I've seen it take anywhere from 1 week to 3 weeks for stuff to come from HK lately, but I am expecting them to be here by mid-January at the very latest.

UPDATE #3 (1/14): They are here!
I need to test them, and come up with some solutions for connecting them soundly to the HuCards without too much adhesive damage, but these are real, they did happen.
(Update #3.1: I've attached a picture of the raffle prize with TurboPoser pre-installed for your pleasure.)

UPDATE #4 (2/4): Things are moving... slowly.
Just to let everyone know, I've had other things going on the past few weeks, and something else starting in a couple of weeks from now, so I have a small window of time to get a few things done here.  I'm hoping to have some of these to send out shortly.  Really very sorry about the delays.

What can I do to help?
If you intend to buy one or more TurboPosers and intend to use it right away, get in touch with me via PM, and answer the following questions:
(1) How many you intend to purchase at the prices listed below (or make me an offer I can't refuse)
(2) Your rough location (where you want them shipped)
(3) Whether or not you want to be in the raffle for SF2CE below, or just an extra TurboPoser, and
(3a) if you'd like to wait until Feb. 1 for the drawing, so I can potentially ship the prizes to you at the same time.  If you win the prize but insist on my shipping the TurboPosers to you before the drawing, you may be flogged (but probably not).
(4) If you'd like to be notified of these going on sale via e-mail, then I will also need your e-mail address.

Estimated (preliminary) pricing!
1 TurboPoser shipped worldwide: $4
6 TurboPosers shipped worldwide: $20 (buy 5, get 1 free!)
10 TurboPosers shipped worldwide: $30 (25% off each!)
16 TurboPosers shipped worldwide: $45 (30% off each!)
The above pricing was before I knew how much labor would be involved making these work.
The pricing is more likely to be as follows:
1 TurboPoser shipped worldwide: $4
4 TurboPoser shipped worldwide: $15
And limit is 4 on these initial ones.  If rev. B gets made, then I will revert to the original pricing (or maybe even better pricing than that... it all depends on how broke I end up going with these).

They will be shipped by USPS First Class (including international orders).  Unfortunately, I can't find on the USPS website how long it will take to deliver to a given country, but in order to meet these costs, this is the plan for now.
Of course, if you must have them faster, shipment can be expedited for an additional cost, but I don't expect many of you to take advantage of that ;)

FAQ: Read me first!
Q1: I'm new here... What's a chopsado?  What's a TurboPoser?
A1: They are thin, flexible circuits that you stick over some pins of a HuCard to play a PC Engine game on a TurboGrafx (or vice-versa if your PC Engine has had the appropriate pin modified inside).

Q2: How will these be stuck to the HuCard?
A2: This will likely be a trial-and-error for the first few.  My current intention is to ship these with double-sided tape on the underside, and see if that holds it down well enough.  I am hoping that it will, as these should be very thin and not really needing a lot of adhesive.  If not, then I will ship them with sturdier tape across the top, with a parchment paper backing.
UPDATE: Initial testing with the double-sided tape seems promising.  This photo was taken after I put the card into my PC Engine a handful of times, and it seemed to stay in place.

Q3: How do these differ from the chopsado?
A3: They will come as a single piece, and no wires attached to it.  It is a flat, purpose-built design.  The benefits of this are: less wear and tear on the HuCard connector, fewer points of failure, smaller size (easily shippable in a standard envelope), and a more professional look (coated in black to match the contact area of the HuCard).

Q4: What do they look like?
A4: See the picture below!

RAFFLE!
Yes, there is a raffle tied to this.  Exciting!
Every TurboPoser purchased up until Feb. 28* will give you one ticket in this raffle.  The more you buy, the higher your chance of winning.
Grand prize = Street Fighter II': Champion Edition for PC Engine (Huey-only) and an extra TurboPoser to play it on your TG16!
Second prize = an extra TurboPoser (no game included)
The grand prize winner may opt to swap with the second prize winner if the first prize winner already has SF2CE.  If both the grand and second prize winners have SF2CE, a third winner will be drawn to receive the grand prize and all three will receive the extra TurboPoser in their shipment.

* = I reserve the right to extend this date, based on a number of factors, including but not limited to: TurboPosers don't work

1/16: Updated various sections to reflect the current state of this.

[turboswimbz]

Are you suggesting the current chapsado isn't professional?

Everything aside, I simply wouldn't have a need for them.

[ishiyakazuo]

Are you suggesting the current chapsado isn't professional?

Believe me when I say that no insult was intended.  I think it's a brilliant idea, but it's made of scavenged parts -- not what most people consider as a professional product.

What I am suggesting is that I can follow through (mostly) with what chop5 said in the original post about them:

Someone should design a even thinner and smaller design and make them in china for like 25 cents a sticker.

I can't do 25 cents per, but I can do a few bucks per, which is still a LOT less than a Kisado if you just want to play one or two games.  I can get them down to 1/10th of a millimeter, which is probably going to bend back the pins on the console's connector a little less.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback   I do appreciate it, positive or negative.

[turboswimbz]

Are you suggesting the current chapsado isn't professional?

Believe me when I say that no insult was intended.  I think it's a brilliant idea, but it's made of scavenged parts -- not what most people consider as a professional product.

What I am suggesting is that I can follow through (mostly) with what chop5 said in the original post about them:

Someone should design a even thinner and smaller design and make them in china for like 25 cents a sticker.

I can't do 25 cents per, but I can do a few bucks per, which is still a LOT less than a Kisado if you just want to play one or two games.  I can get them down to 1/10th of a millimeter, which is probably going to bend back the pins on the console's connector a little less.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback   I do appreciate it, positive or negative.

I was joking. I think you have a great idea.  I just don't need em' as I've gone ahead and region modded everything.

[NecroPhile]

I like the idea, but I've no use for 'em now that I have a region modded console.  Welcome to the forum and good luck to ya.

[ishiyakazuo]

I was joking. I think you have a great idea.  I just don't need em' as I've gone ahead and region modded everything.

Oh!  I get it!  I get jokes.
Yeah, I think this is probably an idea 5 years too late, which is why I'm asking if there are still people who would be interested, before I put down the cash to get a production run of about 150 units (the lowest I can order and still get a reasonable price per board).
I wish more people would look at this thread and actually click a poll result though... even if it's just to tell me "not interested" it'd help tremendously in letting me know if I should pull the trigger on this.  Getting flexible circuits made takes a lot of time, so by the time it's decided to go ahead, it might still be another month before we see them.

[PunkCryborg]

I clicked no, but I have a region modded console like many of us here do. I think the majority of active users here have both PC Engine and TG16 consoles and or region modded consoles. I don't think that this should deter you though and I think there is still a lot of good reasons to produce these. Your main market will be ebay though and not so much these forums.
The main use for most people would be those with US cd roms and want to use a PCE system card or those that mainly collect just US stuff and have one or two PCE games they want to play.

[sirhcman]

The main use for most people would be those with US cd roms and want to use a PCE system card or those that mainly collect just US stuff and have one or two PCE games they want to play.

I agree... there are some purists who don't like to modify their consoles either and this would be an affordable way to play some new titles they otherwise might not be able to. I have a Duo-R and a TG-16 so I would never need one but I think there is a market for something affordable like this.

Good luck, hope you follow through on it!

[ishiyakazuo]

The main use for most people would be those with US cd roms and want to use a PCE system card or those that mainly collect just US stuff and have one or two PCE games they want to play.

I agree... there are some purists who don't like to modify their consoles either and this would be an affordable way to play some new titles they otherwise might not be able to. I have a Duo-R and a TG-16 so I would never need one but I think there is a market for something affordable like this.

Good luck, hope you follow through on it!

Thanks to all of you for this feedback.  I'm one of those people who'd rather not go into the console if possible.  It's just that now that the PC Engine is 25 years old, it's officially a classic, right? ;)
I'm really encouraged by the feedback I'm getting here.  I'm seriously leaning towards pulling the trigger and ordering them now.

[PunkCryborg]

Dont you still have to ground a pin on PCE consoles though to use a converter??

[OldMan]

I -think- if you are using a jp game on a us console, no.
But if you are going the other way, yes.

I'm sure the tech people can answer this more completely, though.

[ishiyakazuo]

Dont you still have to ground a pin on PCE consoles though to use a converter??

That is the conventional way of playing TG16 games on PCE.

[TheClash603]

If you make a 150 unit order I am sure you could sell them here at the member price, then get $25 a pop on ebay which is still WAY less than they go there for the other converters.

I don't think I need one... but hell I'd get 2 or 3 if they were cheap.  I have a few spare TG16 systems, my converter to system ratio should be 1 to 1.

[ishiyakazuo]

If you make a 150 unit order I am sure you could sell them here at the member price, then get $25 a pop on ebay which is still WAY less than they go there for the other converters.
systems, my converter to system ratio should be 1 to 1.

I'm not sure I'd ever think to sell them for $25... my goal here isn't really to maximize profits, but more to offer a crazy cheap way to play a couple of games in someone's collection.  Even on eBay, the most I'd probably sell them for is $10, and I'd have some bulk price that takes into account the fact that these can be shipped for under $1 pretty much anywhere in the world.  Of course, when the batch runs out, it's quite possible that people will re-sell them for more, so that's when I expect we'll see $25 per, unless it has such demand that I decide to go ahead and make a second batch.

I don't think I need one... but hell I'd get 2 or 3 if they were cheap.  I have a few spare TG16 systems, my converter to system ratio should be 1 to 1.

This was sort of the idea I had... some people might even just want to keep it on whatever PCE HuCards they have, so that's why I was thinking some people might be interested in a handful of them, but yeah, one per console is cool too.

I'm sort of thinking of doing some sort of promotion, where the person or people who buy the largest quantity get a free HuCard thrown in from my collection, but I'd have to look at my collection and see if there's anything I can part with or couldn't easily replace.  My guess is that it'd be a spare copy of SF2CE if I do it.

[gamefreak054]

I would probably atleast one. I have already ordered an expensive external scart cable (avoiding the modification of my tg16), might as well go for a cheap region bypass that does not need console modifications. Though I really do not have any games in mind that I want to import atm.

Just curious would you be getting a one time run or making/having these made for a while (if proven successful)?

[turbokon]

I mods system including doing region mods. Doing the region mods is pretty labor intensive I think. That being said, it's easy to use for the end user. The chopsado is a cheaper alternate to the region mod but it's little hassle to use. You have to line it up perfectly and use clear tape to secure it in place. However it works great, thanks chop for that;) If you can make it easy and cheap, I'm sure you'll get some interest. I would like to see a demo.

[ishiyakazuo]

Just curious would you be getting a one time run or making/having these made for a while (if proven successful)?

Right now, I'm mainly curious if I could sell enough to make ordering ~150 of them reasonable.  It seems like it is, based on the feedback I'm getting here, though.  If there's enough interest, I wouldn't be disagreeable to more runs.

Right now, my plan is to take whatever extra I end up getting from this and putting it toward development of other PCE/TG16 projects.  For example, I have some plans to make an Avenue Pad 6 clone kit so you can take whatever 6 button controller you want from other consoles (or arcade parts) and solder this chip/PCB to it, rather than trying to wire up the four logic ICs and other bits found in a real Avenue Pad 6.  (In fact, that design is also basically ready to go -- it's been simulated, but I just need an excuse to pull the trigger and order parts, etc.)  It might be a little pricey too... trying to keep the cost around $10 for that, but I don't know that it's gonna happen, especially because sourcing the 8-pin DIN cables for TG16 for a reasonable price is difficult (I've found a source for the mini-DINs used on PCE though).

I also plan on making a full-blown Kisado clone with some added functionality, which I'm not sure I should really discuss yet (partly because I don't want to get hopes up, and partly because I don't want to spoil any surprise) ;)  The biggest obstacle on that right now is designing it so that it has the feel of a professional product.  That HuCard connector is really a pain in terms of finding a suitable connector that looks clean in the design, but also doesn't scratch the hell out of the contacts.  I've already gone through a number of iterations, and my poor Susa-no-oh and Ballistix HuCards probably can't take too much more punishment   So I'm guessing it'll involve cutting up PCI connectors in the end...

[esteban]

I would buy 1-2 simply to support the cause.

Lots of new forum members ask questions about hardware...it gets complicated quickly. Chopsado has always been a very affordable option for folks with TG-16/DUO...


HOMEWORK: what is the minimum amount of $$$ you'd need to generate (from existing forum members) to make it financially feasible for you? A bunch of us would like to see this project move forward...assuming the product is of at least the same quality and reliability as original Le Chop.

 

[ishiyakazuo]

I think we're pretty close to there, based on the feedback I'm getting.  I have high confidence that if the people who positively answered the poll, plus a few others here and there buy a few each, that I'd at least break even.  Plus I'd like a few for myself, so it should work out.

I hope to order them by the end this week (want to do a few tweaks to the layout), and they quote a 4 week lead time, so I'm thinking that they'll be here by mid-January at the latest.  Trying to get a bunch of PCBs ordered before board houses shut down at the end of the year...

On another note, Chop5 has asked me to come up with my own name for them, and I am going to go with TurboPoser for now, for a few reasons:
1) It's kinda funny
2) It's an interposer board between the HuCard and the unit that only works for TurboGrafx consoles.
3) I didn't really want to refer to the Kisado if I didn't have to.
But it's not final... I'm totally open to other names.

[ishiyakazuo]

Small update: I've shipped off the design (and my money) to the board house.  Assuming they don't tell me that I did something stupid and/or can't make the design, they should be here some time in January.  I should hear back in a few days if there's a problem... let's hope it all goes smoothly!

[MotherGunner]

I don't need one.  I want one.  Good luck man!  Hopefully you can share some pics?

[ishiyakazuo]

I don't need one.  I want one.  Good luck man!  Hopefully you can share some pics?

The intent was that I would indeed post photos of them, as well as some how-to video showing it working, but it looks like that's not likely to happen now...

So, I've got some bad news.  Got a reply back from the board house saying that, while the design could be made, they don't allow panelized designs for prototype runs.  As I was asking for 10 "panels" with 16 on a panel, to keep pricing low, I think this is dead in the water.  No one is going to want to spend over $10 per on these things, so I have gone back to them and said that either it gets made this way, or I'm canceling the order.  Hopefully they aren't stupid and prefer money over no money, as I tried to make it clear to them that those were the alternatives.  I'm already looking for other board houses that'll do FPC.

I'd just like to say that while I am really disappointed by this, I am more disappointed that I may have gotten the hopes up for many of you that this can be made a reality.  I'm now far less sure of that than I was when I started.  I really was excited to make something really special, but I am thinking that's going to be far less likely from a board house I don't know.  I hope that, if this doesn't happen, that you will all accept my apology for failing to get it over the finish line.

[ishiyakazuo]

I've attached a picture of the board layout, as it seemed that a number of people were interested in what this looks like.  I was going to wait until physical flex boards were in hand, but I'm not sure when that will be now, so I might as well show you this instead...

Just know that I haven't given up on this yet.  I am looking at other PCB fabs out there, but I fear:
(a) they won't give me as good of a price and
(b) they won't be as high of a quality (but then again, I haven't had FPCs done at the original outfit either, just PCBs, so maybe that's not issue for them too).

Regardless, I am looking for places that will allow me to honor my original pricing ($4 each, 10 for $30).  I'm willing to spend a little more on my end and not pass that on to you guys, if it means this gets done.

However, there are various issues I have to deal with regarding timing of this:
(a) I need to get my money back from the original fab first, as they have a pre-pay policy...
(b) I need to find a suitable fab
(c) I haven't mentioned this before -- it was supposed to be a surprise... I was going to get them in black so that they'd be less conspicuous over the HuCard's PCB area, but very few places I've found do them in black
(d) I might need to settle for a very small run that works.

So, the moral of the story (for me, anyway) is that I'm not gonna spill any more details about projects I'm working on until I have the things in hand and at least mostly working.  It's frustrating for me to make a commitment I find out that I can't keep, and so I'd rather not say more about things I'm doing until there are pics/vids of me using the thing.

[ishiyakazuo]

Update #3: I've been back and forth with the original board house about my options, and they've agreed to make the design for an extra fee.  The fee is not cheap, but it's probably better than finding another place to do it with all of the requirements I have for them.
Even with the new fees tacked on, I am sure that I can still sell them for the price I was asking before -- I just need to sell more of them to break even, so this new fee they're sticking me with doesn't really affect things other than there being a delay, and that I will likely have to be a little less flexible on coming down on price, etc., at least until I am close to breaking even.  I am still haggling on the price a bit -- I told them that this may be the first run of multiple, so if I do get enough requests to make a second batch, we can do that, but as it stands (i.e. at this price), a second batch is looking less likely.
In any case, I am thrilled that it now looks like this WILL be happening, even if it costs more than I originally expected.  I'll try to get all of that stuff settled before I start posting my personal drama next time...

[esteban]

It is an XMAS miracle. 

As I said, I'll support this simply to make it happen (I.e. for you to hopefully recoup costs).

[roflmao]

Huzzah!  While I may not pick any up initially (finances are pretty much nil at the moment) I will pick up one, or more, in the future.

[ishiyakazuo]

Well, the order is final now (finally), so now it's time to play The Waiting Game(TM).
In my experience, it's usually about 3 weeks for standard turn-around time, but with flex boards, I'm not really sure how long it'll take.  They quote an extra week for them, so I'm hoping by Jan. 15 I'll see them.
Thanks to all of you for the kind words -- it's been interesting making this happen.

Now, on a related note, I'm announcing a raffle!
See the original post for details!

[TheClash603]

Glad everything worked out for you.

This seems like the kind of thing that will fly off the shelf, considering the cost of alternatives right now!

Raffle is a cool idea too!

[esteban]

Glad everything worked out for you.

This seems like the kind of thing that will fly off the shelf, considering the cost of alternatives right now!

Raffle is a cool idea too!

I concur.

Pretty awesome, I hope this is the beginning, with more projects to come.

 

[ishiyakazuo]

Oh, they will, regardless of how this goes, I think
I'm already working on my "one-chip" Avenue Pad 6 clone (design is basically done, just needs to be made and tested), and I have a few more in the pipeline.  My most ambitious ones will require a lot of effort on my part, but I think I have them moving along well, so I'm hopeful to have a couple more available to people by end of Q1 2014. ;)

[oldskool]

I'll take one if it's not too expensive.  I can finally play my copy of Sapphire then.  :-)

Been sitting on the shelf begging for some playtime..

[ishiyakazuo]

Well, the pricing is listed in the OP... is that too expensive for you?

[Arkhan Asylum]

what do these look like.

I could use a few since I took my non-region modded TurbobCD setup to work and feel like playing Japanese stuff on it but cant

[PukeSter]

I take one! (or 5...)

Would be good for Dungeon Explorer and Neutopia at the very least.

[ishiyakazuo]

what do these look like.

I could use a few since I took my non-region modded TurbobCD setup to work and feel like playing Japanese stuff on it but cant

They'll look vaguely like the image I posted here: https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=15866.msg324128#msg324128
They'll be double-sided flexible printed circuit, similar to what you find in the ribbon cables connecting CD-ROMs or LCDs to other circuit boards, so the usage will be somewhat similar to the chopsados, but they'll be a purpose-built product, so hopefully they'll endure a bit more of a beating, and cause less flexing of the pins in the HuCard connector.
I'm looking forward to seeing them myself!  I've printed out the design on double-sided paper to ensure that everything lines up on the HuCard (it does), but just like all of you, I haven't seen the finished product, so I'm equally anxious (if not more so) to see what it turns out looking like.
Probably still another 2-3 weeks until they arrive, so hold tight...

[Arkhan Asylum]

will they have like, sticky backs on them or something so they stay?

[ishiyakazuo]

will they have like, sticky backs on them or something so they stay?

Yes, I'll be sticking double-sided tape on the undersides before I send them out (avoiding the electrical contacts).  I'll try a few and see how that works, and if needed, I'll ship them on parchment paper with some electrical tape to hold them down from the top too.
Don't worry, I'll make them work before I send them out ;)

[ishiyakazuo]

Quick update: They have shipped!  I'll be keeping an eye on the tracking until they arrive.
In the meantime, please review the OP again.  I have made some changes and added a little FAQ section.
The big thing you need to note is, now is the time to PM me with your interest in purchasing (see details on what I need to know in the OP).  I'm still not accepting money, but I want to get a list started so I know who wants what, and start planning this so that everyone gets a quality product in a timely fashion.  (I don't see who answered in the poll, so if you answered that you wanted some in the poll, you still need to PM me.)
Thanks!

[roflmao]

Awesome!  I'm hoping to pick some up sometime in the near future, though it may be a month or two.

[gamefreak054]

I am very glad that this is looking like a very solid project (other projects I see on other forums seem to flop). I know I will take at least one. I just have not researched any games worth importing yet. I know there is supposed to be a ton, but anyone know is there a list any where of suggestions of us friendly games worth importing to the u.s.? I have googled it a few times and have not come up with anything substantial.

[seieienbu]

I think I'd like to pick up one or two.

[turboswimbz]

I am very glad that this is looking like a very solid project (other projects I see on other forums seem to flop). I know I will take at least one. I just have not researched any games worth importing yet. I know there is supposed to be a ton, but anyone know is there a list any where of suggestions of us friendly games worth importing to the u.s.? I have googled it a few times and have not come up with anything substantial.

Dude there is a US (English) friendly game list with a sticky right here on the forums in the PC Engine thread.

There have also been a number of threads discussing this in that section. (including one right at the top.)  There are a ton of awesome HuCARDS more than worth importing/picking up, including a ton of shooters.  If you can't find the threads why not ask this very question over on that board?  You'll get more suggestion than you could buy.

Here's some that I've been enjoying: Aoi Blink, Street Fighter II, Final Soilder, Bomberman 93', Kickball and Final Blaster

[esteban]

I am very glad that this is looking like a very solid project (other projects I see on other forums seem to flop). I know I will take at least one. I just have not researched any games worth importing yet. I know there is supposed to be a ton, but anyone know is there a list any where of suggestions of us friendly games worth importing to the u.s.? I have googled it a few times and have not come up with anything substantial.

Comrade, tell us which genres you enjoy playing (with or without FAQ's/guides) and folks will point you to threads listing games.

[420GOAT]

sounds cool, id like to play some import games as well!

[gamefreak054]

I am very glad that this is looking like a very solid project (other projects I see on other forums seem to flop). I know I will take at least one. I just have not researched any games worth importing yet. I know there is supposed to be a ton, but anyone know is there a list any where of suggestions of us friendly games worth importing to the u.s.? I have googled it a few times and have not come up with anything substantial.

Dude there is a US (English) friendly game list with a sticky right here on the forums in the PC Engine thread.

There have also been a number of threads discussing this in that section. (including one right at the top.)  There are a ton of awesome HuCARDS more than worth importing/picking up, including a ton of shooters.  If you can't find the threads why not ask this very question over on that board?  You'll get more suggestion than you could buy.

Here's some that I've been enjoying: Aoi Blink, Street Fighter II, Final Soilder, Bomberman 93', Kickball and Final Blaster

Sorry I did not know where it was located. Honestly I was just looking for someone to point me in that direction.

@Esteban- The sticky'd thread is a good enough direction for me. Thank you.

[ishiyakazuo]

Update: They're here!  Going to try to test some things over the next couple of days, and then start sending them out to people who pay for them ;)
EDIT: Updated to add pic.

[MotherGunner]

Nice!

[420GOAT]

like i said in a pm, i think you have changed the game more than you know it. now i can start looking for import titles.

[ishiyakazuo]

Thanks -- I do appreciate all the support I've received in making this happen.
If you'd like to see it actually installed on a HuCard (the HuCard that is the raffle prize, by the way!), see the original post.
Unfortunately, I do not have a working TG16 right now, so the beta test will take a few days, and if the results come back positive, then I will begin to send them out to people who want/crave/need them.

[esteban]

Wow. Pretty awesome. Eagerly awaiting results of your chopsado. I know it has the other name, but I still see a chopsado.