PC Engine Memories: Best Of Japan box set...

Trenton_net · 09/25/2014, 05:14 PM

Speaking of repos, does anyone know if the repo of Sapphire has hurt or helped the market for real copies of the game? Are they just as expensive/sought after these days? Or are most people just happy with the repo?

Arjak · 09/25/2014, 06:06 PM

Quote from: HailingTheThings on 09/22/2014, 11:54 PMCan't wait until there's US repro CD games. hahahahahahahahahahaaaahhhhaahahahahaha eff

I would totally buy pressed reproductions of rare USA Turbo CD titles. With prices the way they are, I would feel no guilt whatsoever owning a "fake" copy. I would feel much more guilt paying hundreds of dollars for a "real" copy.

That's kinda sad, in a way.

Otaking · 09/25/2014, 06:19 PM

Quote from: Trenton_net on 09/25/2014, 05:14 PMSpeaking of repos, does anyone know if the repo of Sapphire has hurt or helped the market for real copies of the game? Are they just as expensive/sought after these days? Or are most people just happy with the repo?

The bootleg has not affected the price of original copies which have stayed at about the same.
I wouldn't have guessed this, I would of thought it would of affected the price, but I guess looking at Neo Geo AES games they haven't lost their value and they're ridden with fake carts.

SamIAm · 09/25/2014, 08:07 PM

Two thoughts

1. This guy is obviously getting away with what he's doing. He also seems to be an asshole for a number of reasons. Wouldn't it be nice if someone in this community with the know-how and the equipment made their own bootlegs and sold them at 1/3 the price that this guy is?

2. If and when I finish any translation projects - currently Xanadu II, Spriggan Mark 2 and Anearth Fantasy Stories are in the pipeline - I will be really pissed if this guy makes and sells bootlegs of them. It's enough that I actually kind of don't want to translate the manuals just because I don't want to give him that resource.

esteban · 09/25/2014, 08:32 PM

Quote from: SamIAm on 09/25/2014, 08:07 PMTwo thoughts

1. This guy is obviously getting away with what he's doing. He also seems to be an asshole for a number of reasons. Wouldn't it be nice if someone in this community with the know-how and the equipment made their own bootlegs and sold them at 1/3 the price that this guy is?

2. If and when I finish any translation projects - currently Xanadu II, Spriggan Mark 2 and Anearth Fantasy Stories are in the pipeline - I will be really pissed if this guy makes and sells bootlegs of them. It's enough that I actually kind of don't want to translate the manuals just because I don't want to give him that resource.

Exactly (x2)

Mathius · 09/25/2014, 08:50 PM

I think NecroPhile had a thread a few years ago talking about getting the ball rolling on boots and translations. This should really be happening in the community I agree.

SamIAm · 09/25/2014, 09:32 PM

I'm really not opposed to someone making a little profit from this given the time, trouble and overhead it takes to do it. That's why even if a bootleg only costs $3-5 to produce, I'd still gladly pay $10-20. This guy, however, is just trying to make as much money as possible, and given the circumstances I find that very repugnant.

Furthermore, what he did with Bonknut's Mega Man is unforgivable, IMO, and for that reason alone I will simply never give him my money no matter what he offers.

Trenton_net · 09/26/2014, 10:13 AM

I agree. The more I think about it, the less appealing it sounds to go in on this offer. Non of the games in this package are considered "rare" since all you need is money and you can get any of them instantly. It's not like comparing a game like Bazaru which hardly shows up for sale even if you had money (IMHO).

I also think that in the grand scheme of things, $200-$300 for a game isn't too bad. A few trades here and there or cutting back on your mass buying for a bit will cover the cost just fine. In the end, I think I'd rather own the real copies than the fakes.

reson8er · 09/26/2014, 10:52 AM

Quote from: guest on 09/25/2014, 03:07 PM
Quote from: reson8er on 09/25/2014, 10:40 AMI purchased the Sapphire/Mega Man/Fantasy Zone set from him a while back, and quite frankly am happy for doing so. As I see it, he is bringing the experience of owning the game and playing the game to people who cannot afford to pay hundreds of dollars per game. I understand that the cost is a bit inflated for a reproduction, but you can clearly see the attention to detail and attempt to replicate the original (maybe to a fault) and understand that its no small effort to get all this done.

As much as I love the Turbo/PCE its just not realistic to expect to own these games in the current eBay collectors climate.

I will not be purchasing this set as I already own Kaze Kiri, but if he puts them up individually I'll certainly go for 1 or 2.
It was also no small effort for tomaitheus to get Mega Man running on PC Engine, before the animeforever guy snagged it and started selling repros without contacting him.

I understand that the cost of a donation to his site may feel inconvenient for an NES-to-PCE reproduction that you can take for free, but you can clearly see Tom's attention to detail and attempt to replicate the original NES game (maybe to a fault) and understand that its no small effort to get all this done.

All the repro guy did was spend $3 - $5 a copy to physically publish tomaitheus' work, built off of the work of everyone who contributed to the original game and sources of the packaging assets, and then sold them for $70 - $100+ each.

I honestly had no idea of any of that before reading this post. Had I known, I would not have contributed to them getting money for someone elses hard work. What the repro guy should have done is 1. asked for permission and 2. Share in the sales if he received the permission.

Mathius · 09/26/2014, 08:21 PM

Definitely a douchy move stealing Bonknuts' Megaman port. On the other hand, I feel the Sapphire boot gave the non-rich a method of playing the game on real hardware with a pressed disc. Now with the tracking number fiasco these guys are throwing themselves off balance into douchy dingleberry territory. I won't lie-I feel bad about throwing money at these guys. But I am excited to play Sylphia. I haven't ever played it before.

BlueBMW · 09/27/2014, 06:39 PM

Sylphia is one of my favorite shooters on the system... You'll enjoy it!

Tatsujin · 09/27/2014, 11:47 PM

I don't like it one bit. and I still need me to get a renny blaster. but I won't support that fraudery for no price.

BlueBMW · 09/28/2014, 12:38 AM

What dont you like about it tats? I thought it had spiffy music, fluid controls and a nice weapon and enemy variety. Some of the stages looked boring but the rest is good.

Tatsujin · 09/28/2014, 01:52 AM

lol benby. sure not the games. I don't like this kind of making big fraudient monies with others properties.

esteban · 09/28/2014, 02:10 AM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 09/28/2014, 01:52 AMlol benby. sure not the games. I don't like this kind of making big fraudient monies with others properties.

Silly Swissler,

He was asking you to explain what you don't like about Sylphia itself, not the bootlegging of PCE games.

Tatsujin · 09/28/2014, 10:43 AM

lol silly you both.

I wasn't talking about sylphia from the beginning, but about the repros that this thread is about. get it?

shubibiman · 09/28/2014, 12:23 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 09/28/2014, 01:52 AMlol benby. sure not the games. I don't like this kind of making big fraudient monies with others properties.

So ask your country's banks to give back our money

BlueBMW · 09/28/2014, 01:19 PM

OOOOH I gotcha. Good good

Repro's = frowsy
Sylphia = guten

esteban · 09/28/2014, 04:49 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 09/28/2014, 10:43 AMlol silly you both.

I wasn't talking about sylphia from the beginning, but about the repros that this thread is about. get it?

Swissler!

Explain what you like/don't like about Sylphia.

Thank you.

Mzo · 09/28/2014, 05:01 PM

I may or may not have ordered this...

.-.

GohanX · 09/28/2014, 06:45 PM

Shame on you Mzo. As penance, you must send me Kazi Kiri.

Tatsujin · 09/28/2014, 11:15 PM

Quote from: esteban on 09/28/2014, 04:49 PM
Quote from: Tatsujin on 09/28/2014, 10:43 AMlol silly you both.

I wasn't talking about sylphia from the beginning, but about the repros that this thread is about. get it?
Swissler!

Explain what you like/don't like about Sylphia.

Thank you.

I like almost everything about sylphia. but at some points it is a bit unballanced grafically wise and too easy IIRC ^^

shubibiman · 09/29/2014, 01:51 AM

I've cleard Sylphia the very first time I played this game. It is very, very easy indeed.

Tatsujin · 09/29/2014, 02:15 AM

that's what I do remember as well.

ultrageranium · 09/29/2014, 02:35 AM

I'd be up to get some good repros for titles I won't ever be willing or able to buy. The problem though is the price and attempt to turn the repros themselves into new inflated speculative collector items like this particular box set.

However, reading this thread, I can't help to think that it could be worth the effort to make a community driven repro project. Interest about a particularly title could be investigated, a team could be designated to work on the different parts of the project, and in the same spirit of group buys, members of PCEFX or else could pre-order said title to determine the quantity needed for the repros. Little fee for those working on the project could be determined transparently (mostly symbolic reward than true salary for the labour), and if working on a repros/print of a translated project, the translating team would also be able to get a share, or a bunch of prints for reselling themselves, or put some of the incomes into a pot for future translation projects, etc.

Basically all sorts of transparent and cooperative funding models could be explored to make it both a fun experiment for the community as well as provide nice repros at a non-hyped, non-inflated price.

BlueBMW · 09/29/2014, 02:45 AM

The ultimate problem with making repros etc is that whoever does it is subjecting themselves to possible legal problems. Even though this stuff is old the IP is still owned by someone. When you start making money off of counterfeit / repro goods there's always a lawyer ready to put the hammer down. If someone is willing to take the chance... great but it does make it harder to do a group driven project of sorts. Too much attention to a project can result in the aforementioned problems.

Not trying to crap on the idea, but just reminding people to keep in mind the full implications of what is being suggested. From what I hear Konami is a bitch when it comes to IP violations and since they own what's left of Hudson (RIP) I suspect there could be problems.

SamIAm · 09/29/2014, 03:29 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't try to make a repro of Dracula X, that's for sure.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if most pressing plants in the US would turn down the project.

The real challenge would be finding a pressing plant with just the right amount of unscrupulousness, and setting up distribution that is down-low enough not to attract the wrong kind of attention, but visible enough to get buyers. After all, if you can't sell at least several hundred of each disc, it's probably not worth it.

If I were doing this, I might start with Cotton US. Success probably wouldn't put up a fight over that one. The Hudson games...who knows?

CrackTiger · 09/29/2014, 08:05 AM

There have been attempts at organizing this before and even with the prospect of charging forum members as little as $5 a disc, there has always been a bunch of people against it. Which is why I'm baffled that there's little negativity and lots of defenders of animeforever in threads like this. Maybe it was because Turbo titles were suggested before and sone people were afraid if hurting their investments.

The last time Necromancer tried to organize one, people voted for Space Fantasy Zone, which animeforever already reproed. It got stalled by the attempt to add original music to it, which unfortunately was sound very un-Fantasy Zone and un-Space Harrier.

I think that games like Cotton and Godzilla should be the last pricey Turbo CD games to get this treatment, as they already have perfectly playable PCE versions at down to earth prices. Games like Dynastic Hero, M&MIII and Beyond Shadowgate make the most sense as far as game playing goes.

pixeljunkie · 09/29/2014, 10:10 AM

scanning and retouching all the art and design would be a tremendous amount of work. And, I imagine, why people like PCE works charge what they do. It's easy to dismiss as a shitty bootleg but reproducing all the art/packaging takes work.

I think it's possible for a community-driven project that someone might donate all that time to, in terms of the design work involved. but I think people just don't realize how much work actually goes into something like that. Regardless of your view on it.

Otaking · 09/29/2014, 11:10 AM

I think it's extremely unlikely Konami or any other owners of the original IP would take action if any fan made small print run of games were done, it's far too small to warrant their time and energy to take legal action. For example look at all the fan made SNES repro carts that have been done for fan translations and unreleased games. Nintendo didn't take any legal action with those and they're the most notorious company for doing so.

pixeljunkie · 09/29/2014, 11:31 AM

Quote from: HardcoreOtaku on 09/29/2014, 11:10 AMI think it's extremely unlikely Konami or any other owners of the original IP would take action if any fan made small print run of games were done, it's far too small to warrant their time and energy to take legal action. For example look at all the fan made SNES repro carts that have been done for fan translations and unreleased games. Nintendo didn't take any legal action with those and they're the most notorious company for doing so.

it all depends on if/which media outlets pick it up as a story. If Kotaku spews some garbage about it, here comes the cease and desist. If it stayed low to the ground, you are right.

CrackTiger · 09/29/2014, 11:52 AM

Quote from: HardcoreOtaku on 09/29/2014, 11:10 AMI think it's extremely unlikely Konami or any other owners of the original IP would take action if any fan made small print run of games were done, it's far too small to warrant their time and energy to take legal action. For example look at all the fan made SNES repro carts that have been done for fan translations and unreleased games. Nintendo didn't take any legal action with those and they're the most notorious company for doing so.

Except for when Konami has threatened legal action in the past against people distributing Drac X or even talking about it.

InfraMan · 09/29/2014, 12:38 PM

Woot, the mail guy just delivered my PC Engine Memories set!

I am very impressed with the quality... well worth the ~$150, in my (not at all expert) opinion. I couldn't tell an obvious difference from the real thing from the outside, but the back of each manual has "PC Engine Memories" prominently displayed, so there's no mistaking THAT for the original, lol.

Also, I don't know about the others yet, but I took a quick look at the Sylphia disc compared to the ones listed on eBay, and the little Compact Disc/Super CD-ROM2 icons on the right side are slightly different.

Anyhoo, iffy morality questions aside, I'm very happy with my purchase... now it's time to finally play some Sylphia!

jlued686 · 09/29/2014, 12:53 PM

Quote from: HardcoreOtaku on 09/29/2014, 11:10 AMI think it's extremely unlikely Konami or any other owners of the original IP would take action if any fan made small print run of games were done, it's far too small to warrant their time and energy to take legal action.

Famous last words...

schweaty · 09/29/2014, 02:41 PM

so Sylphia and Kaze Kiri I know and have played. Not familiar with Renny Blaster and Fausette Amour, but the gameplay footage I have seen has not left me impressed. What am I missing here (other than "rarity")? Seems like a lot of money to outlay for pretty mediocre gameplay.

NecroPhile · 09/29/2014, 03:27 PM

Like all exorbitantly priced games, their value is based upon rarity (real or perceived) and has very little to do with game play value.

ultrageranium · 09/29/2014, 03:38 PM

My original post was not so much a naive call to take illegal action and start making counterfeit products, rather turn the understandable frustration shared in this thread into a more positive discussion about the possibility of doing this sort of things as a group.

Certainly my sum-up was a simplified overview of what could be possible, however I do believe that a handful of people using the right tools and working with the right sources would be able to produce quality repros at completely affordable price. It might not be a 1:1 repros, but I seriously doubt the "professional" CD repros out there are using the exact same paper, color calibration, silk screen process as the originals and compared next to each others might well be easily distinguishable.

As for the IP issue, this is of course a tricky one, while it is certainly not a valid legal protection, it is obvious that a very short run of repros distributed in an ad-hoc way and produced at cost, is not quite the same as making a dedicated website with a shopping cart and selling products with a margin, or making a port for a mobile app store or Steam-like platform. I doubt mainstream geeky media would pick up on something so low-key as a few hundreds repros from a PCE game nobody cares about but a handful of obeying nerds. But it is true that's still playing with fire.

I wonder what would happen if one tries to contact the IP owner of ${FAV_GAME} to discuss the possibility of a very limited pseudo licensing option.

schweaty · 09/29/2014, 05:34 PM

Quote from: guest on 09/29/2014, 03:27 PMLike all exorbitantly priced games, their value is based upon rarity (real or perceived) and has very little to do with game play value.

got it. i was starting question my own taste in games. i only buy games i like and will play (repeatedly). i had no problem with the sapphire booty because it rocks, but i will be passing on this set. if they decide to sell sylphia and kaze kiri separately, i will probably pick them up.

Mathius · 09/29/2014, 07:15 PM

I have been intrigued with these four games for years and being able to finally play them on real hardware finally swayed me. I'm poor and I don't trust my knowledge of proper CD-R usage in NEC CD drives. The variation differences interests me too but that appears to be taken care of by other members currently. It's not like I could have contributed much to that seeing as I don't own the originals hehe.

Sadler · 10/01/2014, 04:34 PM

Got mine today!

10 of 100 apparently.

hoobs88 · 10/01/2014, 07:18 PM

Quote from: Sadler on 10/01/2014, 04:34 PMGot mine today! 10 of 100 apparently.

Mine arrived today too. 89 of 100

pixeljunkie · 10/02/2014, 12:17 AM

More important: lets get that Golden Axe remake pressed when its finished.

deubeul · 10/02/2014, 04:33 AM

Quote from: pixeljunkie on 10/02/2014, 12:17 AMMore important: lets get that Golden Axe remake pressed when its finished.

F*** yeah!

esteban · 10/02/2014, 07:01 AM

Quote from: deubeul on 10/02/2014, 04:33 AM
Quote from: pixeljunkie on 10/02/2014, 12:17 AMMore important: lets get that Golden Axe remake pressed when its finished.

F*** yeah!

Wow, how did I forget about that?

Someone bump the old thread so new folks can drool over the upgraded everything.

schnuth · 10/02/2014, 04:20 PM

Quote from: hoobs88 on 10/01/2014, 07:18 PM
Quote from: Sadler on 10/01/2014, 04:34 PMGot mine today! 10 of 100 apparently.
Mine arrived today too. 89 of 100

#88 here. I didn't get a chance to play around with the games yet, but it's a very nice looking package.

Samuray · 10/02/2014, 05:57 PM

....'Golden Axe" remake? Is that a joke....?? A cruel one, at that? I LOVE that game, but neither searching here nor on Google revealed anything about a potential remake on PCE.
If there's anything to it, and if there's a chance it may become available pressed, please enlighten me! (don't use emus and stuff like that)

esteban · 10/02/2014, 06:16 PM

Quote from: Samuray on 10/02/2014, 05:57 PM....'Golden Axe" remake? Is that a joke....?? A cruel one, at that? I LOVE that game, but neither searching here nor on Google revealed anything about a potential remake on PCE.
If there's anything to it, and if there's a chance it may become available pressed, please enlighten me! (don't use emus and stuff like that)

Comrade, use the Google "site:search" and you'll find it. It's awesome. Thank nodtveidt (Old_Rover) and CrackTiger and __________ for SHEER AWESOMENESS.

NecroPhile · 10/02/2014, 06:37 PM

Quote from: Samuray on 10/02/2014, 05:57 PM....'Golden Axe" remake? Is that a joke....?? A cruel one, at that? I LOVE that game, but neither searching here nor on Google revealed anything about a potential remake on PCE.

Did you really look? You can read about it in this thread, which is literally the first result if you search for "golden axe".

Samuray · 10/02/2014, 06:47 PM

Damn.....yeah, I saw that but didn't pay it any attention, thinking it was just a thread about the regular PCE CD "Golden Axe". Was looking for the word "remake" in the title or something like that. Well..thanks!

Mathius · 10/02/2014, 06:48 PM

Rove and me used to talk about Golden Axe PCE remake on the old chat all the time. I can remember begging him to give animation to the eyes of the giant hawk and turtle. Once Rove gets moved in up here in the states I hope to see the project renewed.