Hi-Def NES - a 1080p HDMI mod kit!

[Game-Tech.US]

Update #6 is now posted.

Looks like I'm about done on the software side. The things left:

* copynes
* updating via cart
* audio register viewer
* PCB redesign to fit in the toploader under the main PCB   

[Game-Tech.US]

Here's update #7 from Kevtris:
This time I totally redo the board layout, and I took a time lapse video of me doing this. You can watch the board "grow" from nothing to completion!

CopyNES USB was added, a 5V buck regulator on-board, and a form-factor re-do so it will properly fit the toploader.

Enjoy!

[Game-Tech.US]

New vid from Kevtris:

Update #8 is now posted. This time I show how I place the parts and reflow solder it in a modified toaster oven.

After a few more minor additions, I think it will be ready for the world.

[SmokeMonster]

That looks like it's doing some 2xsai smoothing or something. I think it looks awful.

I agree, it's pretty terrible looking. I posted a comment in one of the Hi-Def NES videos asking what was going on with the filters. I'm sure that we'll have the option to completely disable them though.

I'd love to see proper capture of how it looks handles 720p along with the different scanline settings. The videos of Kevtris making and baking the boards is interesting, but the project would benefit more from some in-depth capture footage of what it is actually capable of. It's the most interesting and sophisticated thing happening in the NES world, but the footage to date makes it look like a poorly setup emulator. Let's see what she can do in all of her glory.

[Groover]

Its good to see updates on this project. I think this is a great solution for any NES fan.

[Game-Tech.US]

For those that didn't see it here is the analogue NT running the hi-def kit scrolling through menu options:

[PCEngineHell]

For those that didn't see it here is the analogue NT running the hi-def kit scrolling through menu options:

Analogue NT is fucking retarded. Slap this thing in a real NES and get back to us.

[Game-Tech.US]

Latest update from Kevtris:

Woot, I finally sent the stuff off so the HiDefNES boards are in production! I have also posted the final "pre production" update. I don't know how long it will be until I get boards in hand but I will probably post another update video when that happens.

[Game-Tech.US]

Kevin's latest update:
Ooooh yeah. PCBs have arrived!

It won't be long now!

////////////////////////

I have already had an email asking if this means it's time to ship their console to me!?!? LOL NO!
I know you all are very excited to get this done, but my request of 'please don't email us and bug us about this until concrete plans are put out there' is still in effect, sorry...
Kevin is close on his end, but he will only have 100 kits and we haven't decided how to sell them just yet. Not to mention they aren't really done yet and I don't have any in my possession yet. Nor do I want a bunch consoles to show up at my house waiting to be modded...

[escarioth]

it looks interesting 

[NightWolve]

Hey, Faxanadu in the background! Another great product that resulted from the partnership of Falcom and Hudson Soft!

[Game-Tech.US]

We have the first batch of kits now, but are not planning to sell any just yet so be patient, watch these vids for more info:
First look at kits and lots of talk with Kevtris:

First full instal on US top loader:

[Medic_wheat]

We have the first batch of kits now, but are not planning to sell any just yet so be patient, watch these vids for more info:
First look at kits and lots of talk with Kevtris:

First full instal on US top loader:

So did I hear correctly?  That your daughter board is what was used for the Analouge Nt?

[Game-Tech.US]

Yeah the Hi-Def kit is an option in the NT.

[Medic_wheat]

Yeah the Hi-Def kit is an option in the NT.

And here I thought these where two separate things lol


Meaning your HD daughter board was yours and Analouges nt was creating something different in house.


That's disappointing. I had wanted to see how they would compair but in essence it is no different then if you hooked up your daughter board to a NES.

I HAVE PLEANTY NES systems. Lol

[Game-Tech.US]

Ok the first 6 Hi-Def NES modded US top loaders are up for auction on ebay, just search nes hdmi.
They were a bit late as I had a hell of a time uploading them because ebay wouldn't let me upload them and they weren't specific enough about why so I had to try several times. Turns out you can use the word 'mod' in the title, but if you say kit they think it has bundled accessories and if you are listing in the consoles category and don't have the bundled accs option listed then it won't upload. I was doing this from misterlister or whatever that shitty prog is named now. Then they marked them as duplicates even though I used different pics for top and bottom shots on each auction and some different txt in description. I had to add the 3 numbers of the serial number to the title to get them to release all the auctions as not dupes, FK!!!

[sirhcman]

wow $310 starting bid? ouch

[Medic_wheat]

wow $310 starting bid? ouch

$200 less then the nt without the HD UPGRADE.

[sirhcman]

wow $310 starting bid? ouch

$200 less then the nt without the HD UPGRADE.

thats just a starting bid, not what they are going to sell for. the nt is overpriced as well.

[Game-Tech.US]

Yeah you have to figure a top loader is about $100 depending on condition and these are all excellent or better since i'm harsher about judging these than most ppl since i've had so many. $120 for the kit and another $50 plus for instal, so yeah $300 start bid...

[PCEngineHell]

I kinda had a feeling this is where this was headed. All I have to say to that is meh. Just meh.

wow $310 starting bid? ouch

$200 less then the nt without the HD UPGRADE.

It's starting bids, not BIN prices. So no, it wont be $200 less. This is basically a dick move hoping to bank on Nintendo collectards and their keen ability to maintain a long list of irresponsible financial decisions. Guess I am unfollowing this project.

Yeah you have to figure a top loader is about $100 depending on condition and these are all excellent or better since i'm harsher about judging these than most ppl since i've had so many. $120 for the kit and another $50 plus for instal, so yeah $300 start bid...

Fucking weaksauce dick move guy. Seriously.

You know Game-Tech.US, I really want to ask, because I remember dropping you a pm prior about one of your region mod pcbs and you not wanting to sell it or whatever, do you even actually sell any of the stuff you guys come up with? Or do you just come on to forums and try to get attention about it so you can use the free advertising to sell your premodded systems & mod work only?

Because honestly this doesn't feel like an effort being made to help any given community, here or elsewhere. It just comes off as a giant push towards lining ones wallet, both yours and the guys at Analogue Nt. I mean seriously, ebay and $300 minimum bids? Totally disgusting. If I had known this was your end game, the way you planned to release this shit, I'd have simply said fuck off from jump street and stopped paying any kind of attention to this. Total fucking waste of time.

[Arkhan Asylum]

shit, you could run composite into an XRGB3 for the same price, and you'd get an XRGB3 out of the deal.

lol.

[PCEngineHell]

Yeah seriously. For the price of this I could buy a toploader or a Famicom, or both, AV mod them, and buy a good iScan upscaler/line doubler unit, and still have some cash left over for good games. This fucking high priced ebay launch is absurd.

Edit. Well MotherGunner my friend, guess its time to just AV mod that toploader of yours. 

[Duo_R]

eBay mentioned on here with high entry bids is a quick way to make some quick friends on here lol

[NightWolve]

That's a very high pay-to-play HD scheme, very high... ;)

[Game-Tech.US]

This vid is a run through of the menu and some features and some game-play on a 120" 1080p projection setup.

[PCEngineHell]

The rent is too damn high to afford NES HDMI.

[SephirothTNH]

Normally I would be right there with you guys bashing the ebay sales.  But I feel it's a little different this time.  It's not quite the same as smokemonster letting TEDv2s sell to the uninformed for ridiculous money.  These first 6 or so pre mods are basically their kickstarter.  That money is going back into the project to make more kits.  Especially since analogue took the first 400 or so kits. 

A 4 to 5 hundred dollar reward tier for one of the first premods wouldn't have caused me to bat an eye.  I certainly wouldn't go for it but I wouldn't find anything unscrupulous with it.  And as history with the NESRGB has shown us someone was going to sell ~$400 premods on ebay.  I would rather that money go to the dev team and back into the project instead of in the hands of Joe Smokemonster.

The kit for $120 sounds perfectly reasonable to me.  The nesrgb was basically $100 with the top loader adapter board.  And if you watch the videos Kevtris is hoping to make minimum wage for the time he's put in to it off this project.  Far from lining his pockets he's quite in the red from my understanding. 

Anyway I'm looking forward to an affordable kit.  I hope kevtris took that shitty analogue company to the cleaners with pricing on those 400 kits.

[Game-Tech.US]

You're right it is a fundraiser for getting more kits ordered. Other than that we really haven't deviated from the original plan of me doing a bunch of installs until kinks were worked out. I always did plan on selling my modded consoles on ebay just like I always have, but yeah why not do auction and let them bring in as much as possible? Also as stated in the vids $300 is about what it will cost ppl to get a modded top loader anyway since they usually sell for around $100 depending on condition and these are all excellent to mint, the kit is prolly gonna be $120 and installation $50 plus, and I still pay %15 to ebay off the top. The money from the auctions will get more kits ordered so we can better fill initial demand, only selling 50 will irritate ppl too and we agreed not to do preorders as there's always problems there as well. On top of all this we aren't even ready to sell kits even if we were just going to sell the 50 or so we have now. I took a ton of pics last night during the last install so we'd have some to go with the installation instructions that haven't been written up yet. The template for making the hole needs to be worked out and lastly we will get a web page set up with a shopping cart system so no one is trying to send us money when no kits are left etc.

[NightWolve]

I'll buy that explanation I guess.

[Game-Tech.US]

You know Game-Tech.US, I really want to ask, because I remember dropping you a pm prior about one of your region mod pcbs and you not wanting to sell it or whatever, do you even actually sell any of the stuff you guys come up with? Or do you just come on to forums and try to get attention about it so you can use the free advertising to sell your premodded systems & mod work only?

Because honestly this doesn't feel like an effort being made to help any given community, here or elsewhere. It just comes off as a giant push towards lining ones wallet, both yours and the guys at Analogue Nt. I mean seriously, ebay and $300 minimum bids? Totally disgusting. If I had known this was your end game, the way you planned to release this shit, I'd have simply said fuck off from jump street and stopped paying any kind of attention to this. Total fucking waste of time.

Yup region mod pcb are still coming, in fact the tg-16 only version, the one that worked fine with the TED from the start, should be for sale soon. When I get time to make a vid about it i'll post it.
The duo/r/x version seems to work fine with the TED in US and JP duo/r/x's, but still not in the white pce or coregrafx so it was once again recently sent to thesteve to see if he could uncover a fix, if not it will prolly still be sold as for use with duo and duo-r/x only or not with TED on other consoles. I just keep wondering if ppl will even want it for pce systems since system cards are about the only thing the TED won't do so why bother trying to make it work on jp consoles?

Oh and the NT 'partnership' had nothing to do with me, in fact I wasn't told about it till everyone else already knew as well.
Already explained the $300 start bid reasoning as well, scroll back up to see that.

[Game-Tech.US]

I had a couple issues on the first av fami install, but I think we got it figured out!

[Duo_R]

The kit can output HDMI and RGB correct?

[Game-Tech.US]

The kit can output HDMI and RGB correct?

HDMI and DVI only.

[GohanX]

Btw, you should probably mention in here that the kits aren't compatible with Everdrives seeing as how most people in here probably have them.

[PunkCryborg]

Btw, you should probably mention in here that the kits aren't compatible with Everdrives seeing as how most people in here probably have them.

deal killer

[xcrement5x]

Btw, you should probably mention in here that the kits aren't compatible with Everdrives seeing as how most people in here probably have them.

deal killer

Ja, I concur.

[SmokeMonster]

I love the project and think that the auctions prices are extremely fair considering the amount of time and research that went in to Hi-Def. I mean, the alternative could have been a kickstarter with 6 top slots at $3,000 donations or something crazy.

Unfortunately the lack of Everdrive support nixes it for me too. I own hundreds of NES carts, but having one installed in the console permanently is a luxury greater even than HDMI output. I just can't go back to constantly digging carts out of their boxes and crossing my fingers that the connector accepts them.

[mickcris]

Definitely lack of everdrive support is a deal breaker.  From the video, it looked like the powerpak was a bit buggy also.  Hopefully the everdrive issue will get cleared up soon.  was looking forward to getting one of these to install.

[Game-Tech.US]

Kevin's post from the nesdev thread:

Well, Jason (gametech) came over tonight and we did a bunch of everdrive testing. Turns out his everdrive works fine on my HDMI modified toploader. We ran SMB3, Zelda, Double Dragon, Faxanadu, SMB, SMB2, and a bunch of other games and all of them seem to work fine. Overall I tested NROM, UNROM, MMC1, and MMC3 games.

The only minor issue I had was reset. sometimes I had to mash reset a few times before the menu would come back up. Once (out of 15-20 games run) I had to cycle the power.

This confirms what I said earlier about the ED working back in november. It seemed to work then and still seems to work now.

Turns out his ED is one of the very first made, and as such it has really old firmware on it. Rev 3 firmware.


I also have a "modern" ED that uses the latest firmware. This ED does NOT work on the Hidef nes. The menu sometimes comes up and the graphics are always corrupt- looks like uninitialized VRAM. You can tell the menu is there, but you can't start a game, it just resets. Sometimes it's showing an error screen I think, but you can't read it. I did not get this version to run a game.

So I took the rev 3 firmware off Jason's ED and put it on the "modern" ED, and guess what it worked just as well as his ED did! So whatever change happened between rev 3 and 4 of the ED firmware seems to be the reason. I put the latest version of firmware on Jason's ED and it failed in the same way the "modern" ED failed.

These are good data points on tracking down the problem I think.

I was thinking of making a video showing this happening.

Regarding the HDMI connector fit, I test fitted my toploader with the cable I have here and it worked OK so I thought it was going to be fine. The connector is recessed as far as it is so I could use the same board on the NES and the nt both. I tested so I thought it was OK, but turns out it isn't. Various cables seem to have different "tongue" lengths. I modified one by cutting some of the plastic off with an xacto knife and it only took me about a minute to do this. I was surprised how easy it was actually.

This board would work fine on a front loader I think. the plastic is much thinner on the back so the fit should not be an issue there.

On the next run I will move the connector out on a little PCB "flag" to fix this issue.

Like any other brand new high complexity product, there's going to be some things to fix. There's literally hundreds or even thousands of little things that could go wrong, so it's not unlikely one or two of these things will slip through. I tried to do extremely thorough testing here. This included 20 sets of CPU/PPU's, 4 different NES main boards (front loaders and top loaders), 12 or 13 Hidef NES proto boards I hand stuffed and reflowed, and 10 different monitors. There is also the HDMI Analyzer that I paid quite a lot of money for just specifically so I could debug the HDMI link on this project. Overall I am in fairly deep on this project financially so I hope it will eventually pay off, and that I will make a bit more than minimum wage for the hours I put in and the cash I spent for tools and prototypes. Overall 5 or 6 people were helping me test/debug it (it wasn't just 2 people as someone claimed).

Not a whine or anything, just stating what the facts are. Hope this clears up some of the loose ends people have about the project. I hope to be able to supply as many boards as the modding community can use. There's not going to be any limit. So long as people buy them I will sell them, barring any parts availability issues.

[NightWolve]

So the key point, you must downgrade to the rev 3 firmware for the NES Everdrive and it will work.

[xcrement5x]

So the key point, you must downgrade to the rev 3 firmware for the NES Everdrive and it will work.

I would assume that would lower the overall compatibility list of titles that the Everdrive supports then?

[SmokeMonster]

So the key point, you must downgrade to the rev 3 firmware for the NES Everdrive and it will work.

I would assume that would lower the overall compatibility list of titles that the Everdrive supports then?

The firmware changelog is here. He's just saying that an easy short term fix is to downgrade the OS, while the long-term goal would be for Kevtris or Krikzz to pinpoint which update breaks Hi-Def compatibility. Krikzz is actually really good about implementing easy fixes like this, and I would guess that he'd be on board to add a menu option or give guidance on the issue.

The key difference added in v4 seems to be this: "Apu initialization before than run the game".

[PCEngineHell]

Somethings I want to know, because evidently I missed this initially:

Does this upgrade completely replace the audio coming out of the cpu? As in, does it take over handling of the audio, and emulates it?

Per what you stated prior:

Built in overclocking with option to not have it mess up the sound pitch.


All audio is generated in the kit, so it will be %100 digital and theoretically noise free.
User will be able to control each audio channel from the menu.
You will be able to adjust left and right volume output of each channel independently.
Most expansion audio chips will also be programmed in to the kit and we hope to auto detect which one will be needed for a game that is being played, but may also have the option to turn each on and off.
Currently working: normal nes audio, fds, N106, mmc5, and sunsoft 5B.
VRC7 is still a maybe...
5.1 and 7.1 is also a maybe...

So if the audio is just emulated, how close to the original does it sound? And how will this work with games like Akumajo Densetsu?

Concerning the PPU side of things:

Aspect ratio will be user adjustable in the menu, seen as horizontal stretch in the menu in the vid.

A few palettes will be included and user selectable in the menu.
Custom palettes can be uploaded to the nesHD using a flash cart etc.

Scanlines will be included....

Is the original PPU actually doing anything in the end result, or is this upgrade being put in between the PPU and pcb, and does it just take over the image processing side of things? I ask this due to reading your statement concerning the new color pallet and scan-line options and all.

IF so, this basically means the visual side is being emulated by new hardware, correct, not just upscaling the original composite signal generated by the PPU? So what exactly does the kit need the old PPU for?

This brings me to the whole emulation aspect of it all. If this thing is just replacing the original audio with emulated audio, and replacing the ppu generated composite with a new emulated image with scan-line and color palette options, what makes the end result any different then using something like a Retron 5 clone system, or something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-Famicom-2-game-machine-Outputs-VGA-RGB-S-VIDEO-AV-With-scanlines-/271948293299?hash=item3f5161a4b3

I mean, if your not using the original audio or video signal anymore for anything, then the core of the system has basically been turned into a clone system, other then a Nintendo made PCB, system shell, and gamepads. I know it sounds dirty to put it like that, but when you state its not a clone, but then go about replacing original aspects of the hardware with emulated ones, basically that is cloning to achieve a end result.

Part of what made the Nes/Famicom special was that unique sound and look generated by the original cpu and ppu, so why would I want to replace this? Pretend I am a potential customer and convince me as to why your product would be the better replacement, as opposed to a Retron 5, the pcb in the auction, or just going with something like the NESRGB kit.

I initially thought this was just some upscaler pcb that was going to act like a cheap upscaler option, taking the composite video and cleaning it up some and upscaling it while using the original audio as an audio source, but evidently I was way off in thinking that. I should have read the initial postings about this upgrade.

[CrackTiger]

The problem with having support for Famicom audio chips, is that the Powerpak and Everdrive already emulate them, although I assume not very well. So I'm guessing that in order to make use of the onboard clone chips, new custom hacked versions of various game roms will be required. Unless one or both of the flashcarts were designed with future developments in mind, and they scan for various add-on chips when loading a game and disable emulation. I tried researching to see if this is what happens when playing FDS roms on an Disk setup, but couldn't find anyone talking about it beyond the carts emulating FDS sound. I haven't had a chance to do a comparison yet, as I was working on the case for my Everdrive and only recently got an NES to Famicom adapter for my Powerpak.

[PCEngineHell]

The problem with having support for Famicom audio chips, is that the Powerpak and Everdrive already emulate them, although I assume not very well. So I'm guessing that in order to make use of the onboard clone chips, new custom hacked versions of various game roms will be required. Unless one or both of the flashcarts were designed with future developments in mind, and they scan for various add-on chips when loading a game and disable emulation. I tried researching to see if this is what happens when playing FDS roms on an Disk setup, but couldn't find anyone talking about it beyond the carts emulating FDS sound. I haven't had a chance to do a comparison yet, as I was working on the case for my Everdrive and only recently got an NES to Famicom adapter for my Powerpak.

I wouldn't want to use a PowerPak though or anything. Thats why I asked about how something like Akumajo Densetsu would be affected. I own an original of it. I don't plan to play roms, just use my original carts, etc.

[mickcris]

Deleted incorrect info. From kevtris' post the firmware is the OS files not the bios.

[CrackTiger]

The problem with having support for Famicom audio chips, is that the Powerpak and Everdrive already emulate them, although I assume not very well. So I'm guessing that in order to make use of the onboard clone chips, new custom hacked versions of various game roms will be required. Unless one or both of the flashcarts were designed with future developments in mind, and they scan for various add-on chips when loading a game and disable emulation. I tried researching to see if this is what happens when playing FDS roms on an Disk setup, but couldn't find anyone talking about it beyond the carts emulating FDS sound. I haven't had a chance to do a comparison yet, as I was working on the case for my Everdrive and only recently got an NES to Famicom adapter for my Powerpak.

I wouldn't want to use a PowerPak though or anything. Thats why I asked about how something like Akumajo Densetsu would be affected. I own an original of it. I don't plan to play roms, just use my original carts, etc.

The Powerpak is the only way I know of to play sound rips.

[GohanX]

Someone should buy my old Powerpak.

[PCEngineHell]

The problem with having support for Famicom audio chips, is that the Powerpak and Everdrive already emulate them, although I assume not very well. So I'm guessing that in order to make use of the onboard clone chips, new custom hacked versions of various game roms will be required. Unless one or both of the flashcarts were designed with future developments in mind, and they scan for various add-on chips when loading a game and disable emulation. I tried researching to see if this is what happens when playing FDS roms on an Disk setup, but couldn't find anyone talking about it beyond the carts emulating FDS sound. I haven't had a chance to do a comparison yet, as I was working on the case for my Everdrive and only recently got an NES to Famicom adapter for my Powerpak.

I wouldn't want to use a PowerPak though or anything. Thats why I asked about how something like Akumajo Densetsu would be affected. I own an original of it. I don't plan to play roms, just use my original carts, etc.

The Powerpak is the only way I know of to play sound rips.

I dont want to play sound rips, just my actual games lol.