Why so few action platformers?

[VenomMacbeth]

I know the PCE is 16-bit, but is there some hardware limitation on the system that makes programming good action platformers difficult?  Or is it a product of a difference in marketing demographic?

With a few exceptions, there seem to be very few sidescrolling platformers on the system as compared with its 16-bit contemporaries. I imagine such games were more popular in the US at the time, thanks to the likes of Sonic and Mario, and shmups were a gajillion times bigger in Japan than they ever were here back then, so could that maybe have something to do with it? 

And while we're at it, what about run-&-guns?  Both the Snes and Genesis have their fair share with Contras and Gunstar Heroes, but the only PC Engine games I know of to compare would be...Genji Tsuushin Agedama...maybe Ninja Spirit?

[esteban]

We have cried about this many, many times.

[SamIAm]

The PCE came out in Japan in October 1987, and its first killer app was its port of R-Type in early 1988. It also received a few other very decent arcade ports of shooters in those early days, the likes of which its contemporary competition couldn't handle nearly as well. In addition, Gunhed/Blazing Lasers became very well respected among gamers and designers for its powerup system when it came out in mid 1989, and other high-profile shooter exclusives followed. So there was definitely more momentum in another genre.

Keep in mind that Super Mario World (and the Super Famicom) came out in Japan in December 1990, and Sonic 1 came out in June 1991. Now, if you look at the number of Hucard releases per year in Japan (the only place that matters), you'll see that 1989 and 1990 were the best years for the format. On the other hand, there is a sharp drop in 1991, and by 1992, the Hucard was on its way out as Hudson focused on the CD system. If you look at the games, the stand-alone PC Engine actually had a fair number of platformers, but they leaned toward the previous generation in terms of design. The PCE hardware sales figures, too, suggest that the heyday of the system was in the late 80s.

The CD games that came out in the early 90s certainly built on the shooter foundation that the Hucard system laid for them, but Hudson also focused on the CD's strengths in the RPG/digital comic area. This is just my own speculation, but I think the reason both for the lack of PCE platformers in the early 90s and the reason why the Hucard system died out so rapidly is that Hudson probably didn't want to fight Nintendo and Sega head on, but rather to establish their own niche based on unique CD games. The PCE-CD system was, after all, the dominant CD-ROM system in Japan until the Saturn and Playstation came out.

When it comes to hardware, I'm certainly no expert, but the CPU certainly seems up to the task, and the GPU can handle enough colors and sprite pixels to keep up with the competition just fine. On the other hand, the lack of more than one background layer makes sidescrollers a little less impressive to look at on the PCE, especially four-way scrollers, and the low amount of CPU RAM might make it difficult to pull off a really huge free-scrolling stage with hundreds of objects to collect/enemies to destroy/changes to affect on the environment.

[thisIsLoneWolf]

There is nothing about the hardware, preventing developers from pumping out lots of side scrolling goodness.

If you look at games like Dracula X, Shubibinman 3, Kaze Kiri, Valis IV, etc. that's just what they did. I agree though, that more wouldn't have hurt. ;)

[TurboXray]

Platformers were very doable on the PCE. Matter of fact, the NES/Famicom has tons of them. And the PCE is sooo much more capable than the NES. So why? No. Idea.

[ccovell]

1987: Adventure-platformers (think Goonies II rather than Mario) & RPG mania
1988: Point & Click Adventure mania & RPG mania
1989: F-1 Racing, Golf mania
1990: Shoot-em-up & RPG mania

The gaming world goes in waves, and it went in these waves in Japan (going by my rusty memory), where everybody copies a single genre for months on end...

[imparanoic]

1987: Adventure-platformers (think Goonies II rather than Mario) & RPG mania
1988: Point & Click Adventure mania & RPG mania
1989: F-1 Racing, Golf mania
1990: Shoot-em-up & RPG mania

The gaming world goes in waves, and it went in these waves in Japan (going by my rusty memory), where everybody copies a single genre for months on end...

I presume

1991 -  platformers ( sonic, Mario, bonk/pc genjin) and scrolling beatemups
1992 - 1993 - 1 and 1 fighting game

[A Black Falcon]

SamIAm makes a lot of great points.  I would only add that not only did Hudson not ever put a serious effort into making top-quality CD platformers, they moved their platformers over to the Super Nintendo mid-generation, and kept releasing major platformers on the NES during the TG16's life too.  Of course they were doing the same with other genres, but this is more noticeable with platformers because the other genres Hudson focused on were better-covered on the TG16 and CD, including shmups, RPGs, digital comics, and the like.

But platformers?  Hudson's only HuCard platformers during the '91 to '95 period after the SNES release are Jackie Chan, Doraemon Nobita no Dorabian Nights, and Bonk's Revenge in '91, New Adventure Island in '92, and Bonk 3 in '93.  They did not make up for that dropoff after '91 with CD titles, as Hudson's only Turbo CD platformers are Bonk 3 CD, Doraemon Nobita no Dorabian Nights, and their only CD-exclusive platformer, the pitifully easy and dated Bakushou Yoshimoto Shingeki (it's kind of fun, but short, easy, and looks dated.).  Doraemon is from '92, the other two from '94.  They released no platformers on the system in '95, though they did release one side-scrolling beat 'em up with a few platformer elements on the next-gen PC-FX that year, Zenki FX. 

If we add in sidescrolling action-RPGs with some platformer elements, you can also add one HuCard game, '91's Dragon's Curse (port of Monster World 2); and three Turbo CD games, from '91 Ys III, and from '94 The Dynastic Hero (port of Monster World 3) and Blood Gear.

Meanwhile, between '91 and '96 Hudson released Adventure Island II, Adventure Island III, Adventure Island IV, Felix the Cat, Jackie Chan, Beauty and the Beast (Western-developed), and Bonk's Adventure on the NES; Bonk's Adventure (semi-original, not a port), Bonk's Revenge on the Game Boy (original title, not a port), Adventure Island (remake of Adventure Island II), and Adventure Island II (remake of Adventure Island III), Felix the Cat, and Milon's Secret Castle (remake, not port, of the NES game) on the Game Boy; and Super Adventure Island, Super Adventure Island II, Super Bonk, Super Bonk 2, Hagane, Disney's Beauty and the Beast (Western-developed game), An American Tail: Fievel Goes West, Inspector Gadget, Zenki: Rettou Raiden, Zenki: Denei Raibu, and DoReMe Fantasy (Milon 2) on the SNES.  The NES games released between '91 and '94, the GB ones between '91 and '94, and the SNES ones between '92 and '96 (only DoReMi Fantasy is from '96).  Oh, in '97 Hudson released one more GB platformer, Bomberman Pocket, but by that point the TG16 was essentially dead.

Hudson clearly just decided after the release of the SNES that since there were more platformer fans on Nintendo's consoles, they would release most of their platformers there.  Hudson never was able to match Nintendo or Sega in quality that generation either, at least in my opinion -- Bonk's good, but not quite Sonic or Mario World great -- but they definitely don't seem to have tried very hard to get platformer fans to stay on their system after 1990, not with how they released so many more platformers for Nintendo's consoles between '91 and '95 than they did their own.


This wasn't always true, though-- if we go to '87 to '90, when the PCE was doing well in Japan, they did not release even one standard platformer for the NES, even though they were still releasing a game for it here and there.  The only release for the Famicom during that period that was even partially a platformer is Xexyz (it's part platform-action and part shmup).  Meanwhile, on the TG16/PCE during this period: JJ & Jeff, Bikkuriman World (platformer action-RPG), Keith Courage, Aoi Blink, Momotarou Katsugeki, and Bonk's Adventure; on SuperGrafx: Madouou Granzort; and on Turbo CD: Monster Lair (platformer/shmup).  Not a lot of games, but again, they had even fewer on Nintendo during that period, only one and it's just part platformer.

Earlier on Hudson had released a bunch of NES/FC platformers.  Between '84 and '87, Hudson released Nuts & Milk (puzzle/platformer), Lode Runner (Western game they ported to the NES), Championship Lode Runner (sequel to that game), Challenger (only partially a platformer), Adventure Island (port of Wonder Boy), Mickey Mousecapade, Milon's Secret Castle, and Ninja Hattori-kun and Takahashi Meijin no Bug-tte Honey (only partially a platformer).  But no more after that until '91's Jackie Chan unless you count Xexyz.


As for NEC, the other first party, they didn't help matters, because NEC in Japan released few platformers of any type.  On HuCard, released between '89 and '91: Genji Tsushin Agedama, Son Son II (by Capcom), Tiger Road (port of a Capcom game), Altered Beast (sidescrolling beat 'em up, port of a Sega game); on SuperGrafx ('90): Ghouls 'n Ghosts (port of a Capcom game); on CD (one in '89, the rest in '92-'94): Horror Story (autoscrolling run & gun game maybe you could call an "action-platformer" of sorts), Altered Beast (sidescrolling beat 'em up, port of a Sega game, and that one title from '89), Bonanza Bros. (port of a Sega game), Chiki Chiki Boys (another port of a Capcom game), and Strider Hiryu (another port of a Sega game).  Also add Renny Blaster and Mad Stalker (from '94-'95) if you want to count that sidescrolling beat 'em up, but it probably shouldn't.  Bazaru de Gozaru No Game Degozaru from '96 is also worth mentioning, but while it has a side view, the actual gameplay is purely a puzzle game, not a platformer.  Overall it's a thin library made up of mostly ports, there.  Son Son II is great, but it's from '89.  After Mario World and Sonic's releases, about all you have are a few old ports, run & guns, and beat 'em ups.  Some of them are good games, sure, but it's not many games total, and third parties were most definitely not making up the slack.

In the US NEC did publish some, of course, but they weren't exactly Mario or Sonic quality... :p  (Night Creatures, Ghost Manor, TailSpin, Darkwing Duck, Impossamole on HuCard; Addams Family, Camp California on CD...)

[VenomMacbeth]

Wow.  I am so glad I made this thread, there's a lot of good information here.  Thanks guys. :3

So...what about FC Genjin?  At what point in the PCE's life did that happen?

[A Black Falcon]

Wow.  I am so glad I made this thread, there's a lot of good information here.  Thanks guys. :3

So...what about FC Genjin?  At what point in the PCE's life did that happen?

July '93 release in Japan, January '94 in the US.  It was their second-to-last NES platformer; only '94's Adventure Island IV released later.  In the PCE's life, at that point the PCE was fading out, and the CD system doing alright but at a lower level of sales (the CD system sold millions less than the HuCard one did).

But as I cover in detail in my last post, after releasing the TG16 Hudson only went back to making many NES platformers in '91, as their system started to falter a bit... and then later on abandoned their system in favor of the SNES for platformers in '94.  I mean, on SNES in '94 to early '96 Hudson had a whole bunch of stuff in the genre, but on Turbo CD just those two games, one super-short and the other a port of last years' Bonk HuCard game, and nothing after '94 either.  Hudson's decision to focus on the "CD-ish" stuff like RPGs and Arcade Card games and the like on PCE CD in '94 and '95, while moving the more "mass-market" games like Bonk, Adventure Island, and Bomberman over to the SNES, seems fairly clear to me.

[esteban]

Taking SamIAm, Covell's and Falcon's posts together:

The popularity of genres vary (a) over time and (b) for console-specific reasons.

(B) is where it gets interesting because we see HuCARDs releases drop and CD releases get a huge push at a specific moment in time.

NEC and Hudson then had to decide what genres complemented  the "strengths" of each console.

I agree with Sam: NEC wanted to push CD-ROM to distinguish itself.

[NightWolve]

Wow, Black Falcon getting noticed! A nice, hefty "power post" you dropped there. Bravo! ;)

[_Paul]

For reference:

Camp California
Legend of Hero Tonma 
Ankoku Densetsu
The New Zealand Story
Pac-Land
Hiho Densetsu - Chris no Bōken
Rainbow Islands
Kaizō Chōjin Schbibin Man
Momotarō Katsugeki
Bikkuri Man World
Wonder Boy III - Monster Lair
Valis II
Tatsu no Ko Fighter
Jackie Chan
Popful Mail
Makyō Densetsu - The Legendary Axe
Fushigi no Yume no Alice
Ghost Manor
Chiki Chiki Boys
Cross Wiber - Cyber Combat Police
Cyber Cross
Doraemon - Nobita's Dorabian Night
Tiger Road
Jigoku Meguri
Yōkai Dōchūki
Fausseté Amour
Impossamole
Horror Story
Ninja Ryūkenden
TaleSpin
Madō Ō Granzort
Valis IV
Turrican
Genji Tsushin Agedama
Makai Prince Dorabocchan
Mirai Shōnen Conan
Mashin Eiyūden Wataru
Jim Power
Prince of Persia
Bakushō Yoshimoto no Shinkigeki
Son Son II
PC Genjin 2
PC Genjin 3
Lode Runner
Obocchama-kun
Fiend Hunter
Kaizō Chōjin Schbibin Man 3
Adventure Island
Akumajō Dracula X - Rondo of Blood
Baby Jo The Superhero
Blue Blink
Kato-chan & Ken-chan
Ghouls 'n' Ghosts
Ninja Spirit
Chozetsu Rinjin Berabo Man
Rastan Saga II
Dynastic Hero
Valis III
Dragon Egg!
Takahashi Meijin no Shin Bōken Jima
Mizbak's Adventure
Mugen Senshi Valis
Exile II
Energy
Genpei Tōma Den
Strider Hiryu
Iga Ninden Gaō
Darkwing Duck
Don Doko Don
Exile
Kaizō Chōjiin Schbibin Man 2
Battle Lode Runner
PC Genjin