A realistic approach - Community driven pressed CDs

[spenoza]

Here's the deal about translation patches. Sure, the patch isn't the ROM/ISO of the original game, but it DOES contain a translated version of the original text. A translated version of that original script is still a derivative work of the original script. Under US copyright law, only the original copyright holder can create or authorize creation of derivative works. So even though it's only a patch that modifies the original, it contains a derivative work of copyrighted material, which is technically illegal.

Now, translation patches are untested in US courts, and they typically don't pose a threat to foreign game companies (barring release of an HD version of a game in the US or a new, translated edition of an older game). I think it would be very rare indeed that a company would care about a translation patch. That's why there are so many out there. Just because something is technically illegal doesn't mean there's actually any legal risk. Look how many people jaywalk every day in most cities.

That doesn't change, however, that a fancy pressed release, even if not done in search of profit, is not only illegal, but a risky proposition compared to a translation patch. Once you start actually selling someone else's copyrighted works (desire for profit doesn't matter, you took money and sent someone else's copyrighted work in return), you open yourself up to a world of hurt. Romhacking.net refuses, for example, to make available, or allow linking to, patched ROM or ISO files, even as it supports translation patches. Why? Risk of potential legal liability. Actually taking money in exchange for a pressed release is a step well beyond a patched ROM or ISO file. Not saying anyone would get in legal trouble, but they COULD, and the chance is much greater. And the penalties would be nothing to sneeze at if it did happen.

In light of this, I can understand someone not wanting their work associated with a pressed release. And if even one person on a team says "no" to that, that shuts it down. It's the only way to be respectful of everyone involved. Doesn't matter what the group dynamics were, or who hates who after the fact. Everyone still put something of themselves on the line, and if someone doesn't want their contribution used a certain way, you gotta respect it. If you're desperate to make that use happen, go back and remove and replace their contribution. You do the work yourself and you can do whatever you want with it and take whatever risks you want with it.

[VestCunt]

Also for the record,  I said I don't care either way what happens. I may not be a lawyer but I am far from an idiot. I have 5.5 years college under my belt. I've taken differential equations, thermodynamics, and and many other high level math/physics/ health care courses. So take your attitude and stick it up your rear end.  This is a discussion,  no reason to get all pissy. So just calm down.

Sorry to rip on you, greedo. It's no fault of yours, but I tire of the short-term memory of internet forums. You're not an idiot. I'm sorry.
Anyway, releasing a patch by itself may be legal EDIT: nevermind, see spenoza,

but bundling it with a game in any form breaks two of the monopolies held by the copyright holder: 1) derivative works, 2) distribution.

[SephirothTNH]

I can understand someone not wanting their work associated with a pressed release. And if even one person on a team says "no" to that, that shuts it down. It's the only way to be respectful of everyone involved. Doesn't matter what the group dynamics were, or who hates who after the fact. Everyone still put something of themselves on the line, and if someone doesn't want their contribution used a certain way, you gotta respect it.

On further reflection This makes a lot of sense.  It really is the only respectful way to go about it.  For better or worse everyone who contributed to a project should have the right to veto a reproduction.  The remaining members should either then drop it or reproduce the work of those in disagreement. 

Like I said before I think this discussion speaks volumes to the integrity of the membership here.  If this were an SNES forum there would already be overpriced repros for sale without getting anyone's consent.

[Gentlegamer]

If this were an SNES forum there would already be overpriced repros for sale without getting anyone's consent. 

On Nintendo Age, probably.

[greedostick]

Also for the record,  I said I don't care either way what happens. I may not be a lawyer but I am far from an idiot. I have 5.5 years college under my belt. I've taken differential equations, thermodynamics, and and many other high level math/physics/ health care courses. So take your attitude and stick it up your rear end.  This is a discussion,  no reason to get all pissy. So just calm down.

Sorry to rip on you, greedo. It's no fault of yours, but I tire of the short-term memory of internet forums. You're not an idiot. I'm sorry.
Anyway, releasing a patch by itself may be legal EDIT: nevermind, see spenoza,

but bundling it with a game in any form breaks two of the monopolies held by the copyright holder: 1) derivative works, 2) distribution.

No hard feelings for sure my friend. I think people sometimes forget forums are discussions, where debates happen.

I think we can all agree that the risk is virtually nill, and some people need to decide if a risk equivalent to that of Jay walking is worth taking or not. I'm guessing not. Or redo the parts in question. Or Continue to let fans get raped and profited off of from those who print up stuff like turbo memories. It might not happen now, but eventually someone down the road is going to print ys, and Dracula x, and flip them on eBay.

I for one hope these companies see threads like this. I'm guessing they do,  but just don't care.  Then I hope they realize there is a demand still, and if it's not profitable for them, to let the fans take it in their own hands. I have said it before,  and I will say it again,  these Japanese game companies just don't care about the American fan base. Never have never will. The new 3ds dragon Quest games are a token example. Never going to happen, because if they don't see $$$ it's just not worth it. The same applies to these illegal pressing like turbo memories,  and the massive boat load of square Enix snes repros on eBay.

If it wasn't for certain important people,  these games would be lost forever,  Panzer Dragoon Saga is a prime example of how much these companies just don't give a shit.

It is our God damn duty as passionate gamers, law or no law,  to keep these games backed up in rom and iso format, and translate if need be for future generations to enjoy in digital or media format hundreds of years from now. Cause these companies are not going to do it. So many things in history have went unrecorded,  and lost. Video games I hope will never be one of those things.

[ParanoiaDragon]

3) the internet is filled with petty, bean-counting tattletales that will rat you out. Strangely, they don't bat an eyelash if someone starts selling nice repros like the overpriced PCE boxset, but if anyone dares open up a discussion about a business venture, then there's hell to pay. Several years ago a guy posted here that he bought the TG16 Marble Madness prototype and might consider sharing it. There was some interest, but then the Forgotten-IP-Corporation-Protection Trolls showed up and ran the guy out of town because they just could live with the thought of someone paying money for an unlicensed ROM. Also remember the independent release of Faceball on the Virtualboy was shitcanned because of forum pussies threatening to alert the IP holder.

I was wondering what happened with that.  I didn't recall seeing anyone being jerks about it, but I did see him on another forum stating that people were just demanding the rom of it or something like that.  I offered several times to do a redbook soundtrack for it, if he had to release the game on a disc, rather then a Hucard, though, that would require some hacking the game code ofcoarse.

[NecroPhile]

I'm all for respecting BL's wishes, as there's plenty of other worthy games to booty-ize anyway.  It's too bad NW, BL, and everyone else that worked on the Ys dub didn't hammer out an agreement before working together (where's the TARDIS when you need it?), but it's not too late to redo the dub without his work.

1) talking about ROMs and ISOs is a ban-able offense, you idiots.

Asking for or posting links to roms and isos is prohibited; simply discussing them is not.

[jlued686]

WHO'S THE IDIOT NOW?!?!?!?!

;)

[clackattack]

Thats why my opinion would be to make a venture toward making some really nice looking discs that are BLANK with NO files on them whatsoever to male/distribute amongst the forum, then just leave it to the buying party to put whatever they want on the disc. I know a lot of folks on here are against "burnt" discs and while I totally agree that a true, pressed disc is the way to go, it seems like there is gonna be too many hoops to jump through to make that possible.

[greedostick]

Thats why my opinion would be to make a venture toward making some really nice looking discs that are BLANK with NO files on them whatsoever to male/distribute amongst the forum, then just leave it to the buying party to put whatever they want on the disc. I know a lot of folks on here are against "burnt" discs and while I totally agree that a true, pressed disc is the way to go, it seems like there is gonna be too many hoops to jump through to make that possible.

Thats why my opinion would be to make a venture toward making some really nice looking discs that are BLANK with NO files on them whatsoever to male/distribute amongst the forum, then just leave it to the buying party to put whatever they want on the disc. I know a lot of folks on here are against "burnt" discs and while I totally agree that a true, pressed disc is the way to go, it seems like there is gonna be too many hoops to jump through to make that possible.

That's a good idea. But I think lots of people would mess up their burns. But still,  I would be for that. But I imagine people here will freak that it says ys. It's going to happen one way or another,  it's a matter of when some random guy takes it into his own hands and starts selling them on eBay without anyone's consent.

[Nemo]

Thats why my opinion would be to make a venture toward making some really nice looking discs that are BLANK with NO files on them whatsoever to male/distribute amongst the forum, then just leave it to the buying party to put whatever they want on the disc. I know a lot of folks on here are against "burnt" discs and while I totally agree that a true, pressed disc is the way to go, it seems like there is gonna be too many hoops to jump through to make that possible.

Someone is already ahead of the curve using the scans that Steve linked to:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YS-IV-English-Disk-Print-with-English-Case-/291289358313?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d232dfe9

I'd laugh, but the only thing worth laughing about is anyone who thinks they can control the internet.  There are companies that copyright music, movies, etc. and can't stop people from pirating and profiting from it, but some random guys who didn't copyright their work, illegally altered it in the first place, and distributed for free on the internet, are going to stop people from profiting from it.  How silly are we??  Like someone else mentioned, the fact it's even being brought up, discussed, and looked at it in a respectable way is a testament that there is at least some honor amongst this community.

[greedostick]

I'm going to email that douche-tard right now.

[CrackTiger]

That blank cdr seller is old news. His discs are hideous and the crappy photos are misleading. The labels use a scanned image of the original disc, reflection and all.

[DildoKKKobold]

Now, translation patches are untested in US courts, and they typically don't pose a threat to foreign game companies (barring release of an HD version of a game in the US or a new, translated edition of an older game). I think it would be very rare indeed that a company would care about a translation patch. That's why there are so many out there. Just because something is technically illegal doesn't mean there's actually any legal risk. Look how many people jaywalk every day in most cities.

Companies getting pissy does happen:

http://www.vg247.com/2014/07/18/final-fantasy-type-0-translation-psp-vita/

http://www.3dbuzz.com/forum/threads/177390-Squaresoft-smacks-down-another-fanmade-game

Granted, the only result I can find is about Squeenix. That said, Final Fantasy is a multimillion dollar franchise, so they have to protect it.

[Dicer]

Has anyone ever considered contacting the IP holders and see what they say, I know Konami would be a no go most likely, but in the case of Ys, it really can't hurt.

Just a thought...

[NecroPhile]

Has anyone ever considered contacting the IP holders and see what they say, I know Konami would be a no go most likely, but in the case of Ys, it really can't hurt.

Just a thought...

Ys IV was a Hudson developed game, so getting Falcom's permission would be meaningless.

[Dicer]

Has anyone ever considered contacting the IP holders and see what they say, I know Konami would be a no go most likely, but in the case of Ys, it really can't hurt.

Just a thought...

Ys IV was a Hudson developed game, so getting Falcom's permission would be meaningless.

Well, shit...

lol

[jlued686]

Well, considering Falcom regularly releases new - and sometimes translated - versions of their old games (See Ys 3 and the countless versions of Ys 1&2), I don't think they'd be quick to approve anything like this.

I say take Ys IV off the table completely since it's obviously a pretty controversial topic. There are many other good candidates in this thread.

EDIT: And what NecroPhile said.

[TurboXray]

If this were an SNES forum there would already be overpriced repros for sale without getting anyone's consent. 

On Nintendo Age, probably.

Bingo.

 I asked a person, who I've known on forums over the years, why he was selling a repro of his SMW hack (he was even advertizing about it on other forums - taking pre-orders). His answer, because someone else threatened to do it if he didn't.

[SephirothTNH]

Wow that is pretty low.  I've never been a member there but every time I've had the misfortune of landing there after a google search I've left with a bad taste in my mouth.

[esteban]

I thought this was a Sonic and Friends free-zone? It's bad enough that stuff drifts over to sega-16, but here? -smh 

tl;dr (nothing important)


 greedostick: Actually, it is illegal. You are not allowed to translate someone else's copyrighted work and redistribute it in another language (patch or no patch). The ONLY reason why the hacking and translation community hasn't come under fire, is because this is done for non-profit AND the target audience is small enough. That hasn't stopped some companies from producing a C&D though, once a hack got waaaay to much attention (ChronoTrigger comes to mind).

 I do agree that everyone involved in a project gets veto power for their own work - period. SamIam and I are working on the translation of Spriggan, so I would definitely like it if permission was asked of both of us. I can't speak on behalf of Sam, and he can't for me.

 No one said stated that any of these hacks were made with the idea that they were to be pressed on CDs. It's not the hackers or translators problem, if you don't like CD-Rs or PC emulators (or the up and comming SDcard CD emulator for PCE that the GDEMU guy is working on).

 About the YsIV dub thing: just redub the damn thing. It's not that hard and anyone has the right to do it (there's no claim that you can't rehack or redub something just because someone else did it first). That would solve both issues for BL and NW.

To the new comers here, you're not entitled to something just because someone else released it for public use. It doesn't make it public property. You need to learn some damn respect: you can't always get what you want (I want a pressed copy of YsIV as much as any of you, even before this dub was made). Trying to justify it 3 ways around be stating they didn't have permission for this and that, doesn't negate anything. I swear some people have little to no scruples. But go ahead and do it, and see what happens to the community that wants to actually continue this type of work.

 I'm in no way against community pressings, but getting permission is the right thing to do. I feel like a broken record...

 As for Dracula X, there are like 5-6 people that worked on that (myself included). BL isn't the only one, but he made clear that he doesn't want this part used in a pressing. If you want to make your own version, you can use my tools (or rather, code) - I don't care what you do with it. But I didn't do everything in the game, and there are artists (like Fragmare) that did work too. You'd have to replace that as well. You got your work cut out for you; let's see what you're made of.

Thank you.

I honestly believe that some folks here have not actually been reading posts in their entirety. Or, if they have, they have poor comprehension skills.

Otherwise, sadly, they really are as selfish and as short-sighted as they present themselves.

It is mind-boggling.

What part of, "Do you want to see more fan hacks/translations/dubs in the future?" is too difficult to understand?

It is a simple matter of respect/civility for each other and towards the folks who create the hacks/translations/dubs.

It is a sad day.


UPDATE: Ok, so I am late to the party.

+1 to everything vestcunt said.

[EvilEvoIX]

It's a shame that this is so complicated and convoluted but that is just the way with IP's.  Maybe there is a way to just purchase the Pressed disc and not actually sell the IP but give it away like in "Dallas Buyers Club" where here gives away the AIDS medication but you pay a member ship?  Some sort of a loop hole IDK.

[Opethian]

It's a shame that this is so complicated and convoluted but that is just the way with IP's.  Maybe there is a way to just purchase the Pressed disc and not actually sell the IP but give it away like in "Dallas Buyers Club" where here gives away the AIDS medication but you pay a member ship?  Some sort of a loop hole IDK.

Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon)[Forum Weapon][How To Troll][Ignorance Is Bliss]

[Gentlegamer]

It's a shame that this is so complicated and convoluted but that is just the way with IP's.  Maybe there is a way to just purchase the Pressed disc and not actually sell the IP but give it away like in "Dallas Buyers Club" where here gives away the AIDS medication but you pay a member ship?  Some sort of a loop hole IDK.

The copyright holder still owns the distribution rights, so even free give a way is technically a violation.

[Daria]

here's the guidelines I'm thinking
1. If using some kind of patch (Ys IV dub, for example), we must get permission from the patch creator, and follow whatever terms they wish.

I didn't read the whole 9 page thread... but I just wanted to say that this is already my favorite retro gaming forum. For this sentence alone: thank you.

[esteban]

DoxPhileLite.com

[HailingTheThings]

DoxPhileLite.com

You're a "DoxPhileLite.com" By that I mean, gosh darn it all, you're handsome! Can you please make a new TurboDoodle episode? Preferably one in which you're wearing those cute army pants as previously featured in the Alien Crush video? I am most certainly 100% straight, I promise.

:3

[esteban]

DoxPhileLite.com

You're a "DoxPhileLite.com" By that I mean, gosh darn it all, you're handsome! Can you please make a new TurboDoodle episode? Preferably one in which you're wearing those cute army pants as previously featured in the Alien Crush video? I am most certainly 100% straight, I promise.

:3

Of course I still have those pajamas. Camouflage LeUglie @OldNavy

[HailingTheThings]

DoxPhileLite.com

You're a "DoxPhileLite.com" By that I mean, gosh darn it all, you're handsome! Can you please make a new TurboDoodle episode? Preferably one in which you're wearing those cute army pants as previously featured in the Alien Crush video? I am most certainly 100% straight, I promise.

:3

Of course I still have those pajamas. Camouflage LeUglie @OldNavy

Yesssss!!!!!!!!!!!

[Greg2600]

There'd be a LONG, long list of those who would gladly pay for a translated Dracula X CD pressed, including ME!!!!

[Psycho Punch]

Nulltard, make us a site called kickstartophile.com to make this model of community funded CD pressings a reality. Do something good for once.

[PCEngineHell]

My stance on this whole bootlegging others ip for profit is this. People from the community doing it openly would be a permanent stain on this forum. If you're going to do it, do it at cost, not profit, sell only to forum members, and keep it low key and on need to know. As far as I am concerned otherwise it is the IP holders job to protect their own IP. If they want to protect it, they need to be proactive about it.

Most don't try to unless profits are being made, and half these old companies don't even exist anymore due to mergers or closing shop and selling assets, so the IP ends up in the hands of companies that could care less for the stuff outside of squeezing some profits from the Nintendo Virtual console.....

Outside of all the other mess involved with this, the only thing that irks me in a major way is people are still buying shit from that lying scamming cunt stain Tobias/Fudoh, after his spending years lying about his source of the Sapphires being old stock from Japan, and insisting his Sapphires were probably legit because of some fake letter from Hudson he concocted and presented to the forum. He took advantage of people's trust, of this community giving him the benefit of doubt.

The guy doesn't deserve one fucking penny from anyone, he makes hundred percent profit off of others hard work, but he does pretty bootleg boxsets and people toss hundreds his way like all is good. If you guys are going to do this kind of shit, at least keep it low priced and in the community and stop bastards like this from exploiting the Turbo scene even more then it already is.

[Sarumaru]

I think the only way to really approach this is by starting new projects from the ground up with the intention of making repros. However, a couple things should be kept in mind such as;

1. Active copyrights. Obviously translating and making repros of Dracula X might pose an issue since Konami has already released this game twice on two different formats.

2. Repro projects should probably consist of old IP's who's copyrights are no longer active or come from a now defunct developer like Masaya (who was bought by xtreme and they probably don't give a sh!t).

So it may be best to put together a team with the mere purpose of "localizing" these old games. I'd be game and can help out with a number of things, we have many other talented folks on the forum as well who could help and whatever comes out of this should stay within the forum and its members.

[SignOfZeta]

Why do you care about permission from one person (the translator) when your are straight up jacking a piece of software that was created (not modified) by a team of 100 people and owned by a corporation that can sue the shit out of you and even maybe send you to prison?

Does this make sense to anyone?

If you're going to jack it, just jack it. Don't talk about it, just do it. That's how bootlegging is done. I don't have a problem with bootlegs, IMO they are essential to virtually any scene, but this isn't how it's done.

As for the subject to be bootlegged, I don't see Drac X making much sense. The PCE original can still be had for a price not much higher than the original retail and there are multiple ports that are progressively cheaper. It also has almost no speech or text of any kind so the patch doesn't put it in the category of "must mass produce".

[Sarumaru]

Who has two thumbs index fingers and is bored ?

Good, let's get started then. We're gonna dub High-leg Fantasy together. Just you and me, we GOT dis. I've been practicing my Japanese-girl moans for just such an occasion. U READY ??

[SignOfZeta]

Honestly, that's a much better idea than a Castlevania game everyone already has.

[Sarumaru]

Or maybe, start with a project that's small and will take less time to make like a platformer and do a test run? Maybe something like Shubibinman 3? Would require mostly voice dubbing and like little to no text at all. We press it, see how it goes. I'd help fund this as well as create any manual/case designs for the project.

[Greg2600]

If it costs say $30 a pop to press the CD and make the inserts/manual, plus shipping, and the person doing this charges say a $10 fee for their time spent, what's the harm in that?  As long as they aren't versions which were released at retail.

[Sarumaru]

This is true, people want things at cost but time is money too.

[PCEngineHell]

If it costs say $30 a pop to press the CD and make the inserts/manual, plus shipping, and the person doing this charges say a $10 fee for their time spent, what's the harm in that?  As long as they aren't versions which were released at retail. 

Did you create the game yourself? Is it your IP? Are you going to reimburse the creators of said work if it is not yours, per a legal agreement worked out between you and the original owners of said IP? If your answer is no to all the above, then you already know what the harm in it is. As stated prior, don't publicly involve this forum in that activity. If you plan to do this kind of crap, keep it to yourself and behind the scenes. This forum does not need to be attached to open bootlegging, especially for profit, no matter how low those profits may be.

[SignOfZeta]

Never mind that, who the fuck is charging $30 to press a CD? Is it filled with human blood?

[SephirothTNH]

Never mind that, who the fuck is charging $30 to press a CD? Is it filled with human blood?

Sign me up for a blood filled Dracula X please!

[NecroPhile]

Why do you care about permission from one person (the translator)..... Does this make sense to anyone?

Isn't it obvious?  If you spit in the face of the few guys that are actively doing translations, don't be surprised if they walk away and you never get another one.

[CrackTiger]

Why do you care about permission from one person (the translator)..... Does this make sense to anyone?

Isn't it obvious?  If you spit in the face of the few guys that are actively doing translations, don't be surprised if they walk away and you never get another one.

This is a specific case of one person who has already been a key member of two completed translation projects, who has actually stated that if his projects get pressed he's done with the PCE scene.

Bootlegging commercial publishers' PCE games from decades ago isn't going to make them stop producing new PCE games, because they aren't making any more anyway. Pressing projects involving the work of someone against it will effectively cancel any future projects they would have done.

People blindly jumping into threads like this and boldly making blind claims has likely already done enough damage to discourage at least Burnt Lasagna from starting any new PCE translation projects.

[tbone3969]

Sign me up for 2 orders if this project ever comes to fruition.  This sounds awesome!!!

[SignOfZeta]

And there's another one.

[esteban]

Why do you care about permission from one person (the translator) when your are straight up jacking a piece of software that was created (not modified) by a team of 100 people and owned by a corporation that can sue the shit out of you and even maybe send you to prison?

Does this make sense to anyone?

If you're going to jack it, just jack it. Don't talk about it, just do it. That's how bootlegging is done. I don't have a problem with bootlegs, IMO they are essential to virtually any scene, but this isn't how it's done.

As for the subject to be bootlegged, I don't see Drac X making much sense. The PCE original can still be had for a price not much higher than the original retail and there are multiple ports that are progressively cheaper. It also has almost no speech or text of any kind so the patch doesn't put it in the category of "must mass produce".

The debate was never about the original/current IP owners.

The "debate" was how THE FOLKS WHO CREATE THE TRANSLATIONS/patches/dubs specifically requested only personal copies be created. NO PROFITEERS SELLING BOOTLEGS.

Why does this matter? Because the folks who actually code/hack will DROP PROJECTS (tobias selling bootleg PCE MegaMan caused Bonknut's to lose enthusiasm the project...Burnt Lasagna, before and after Dracula X dub, requested folks make *personal* copies).

It's honestly the simplest request a person can make.

It's about supporting the folks who
(1) spend time/money/energy
(2) hacking/translating/recording/managing/creating/etc.

--> fan projects.

It is short-sighted and selfish (and just plain douchebaggery) to cause needless problems in our little PCE scene.

In an effort to make it easy....just print your own stuff/burn your own stuff...

https://www.tg-16.com/print_your_own_stuff.htm

[SignOfZeta]

There are really at least three different mechanisms at play here:

1) conventional IP respect
2) respect for the fan translators
3) basic fairness and decency.

As elsewhere in life, I prefer the third one, but most people seem to need a law or a rule or a personal interaction to help them behave like human beings because anarchism is for monkeys, right? You can't just hold someone accountable for human empathy when they don't fucking have it, right? Right?

The company that owns the software doesn't want you to pirate it, but they're in Japan and worth $4B so fuck them.

The guy that directed the game probably wants you to not pirate it too, but fuck him because I never met him.

The guy that translated it doesn't care about the director or the owner, but he also doesn't want you to pirate it because that opens up a Pandora's box of who knows what the fuck in his personal life. This is totally understandable. His name on a patch is legal. The file that the patch is applied to is illegal.

The dicks who joined this forum a month ago don't care about the translator because they've only been in the scene since XMas 2014 and they've never created anything of their own anyway so respect for hard work is meaningless. To them, hard work is "eBay self employment" and flipping Wonder Momo for $500 because TURBO RULES DUDE!

And then there are everyone's own personally formed opinions on piracy, which I'm sure that's just fascinating...

One does not pirate shit by going to the most high profile web forum for that shit and announcing plans to hire a plant for significant serial production of said shit in retail worthy packaging. That's how you fuck everything. That's how you get forums with draconian censorship. That's how you lose translators. Sure, it's a chance to make a small amount of money, but it's also a chance to cause invaluable damage to a scene built by thousands of people world wide over decades.

If I were at a convention and some guy had a cake of pressed and translated Monster Makers that just said "MM" in screen printed Impact font, I would buy one for $1. That's how you do this shit. That's how records have been bootlegged for 50 years and it works pretty well. Making fancy cases, "small profit margins", announcing as publicly as possible, all that is a bad idea.

I'm sure someone has considered locking this thread, but I think it would be a credit to the forum if the idea was simply poo-pooed into oblivion.

[Dicer]

I'm sure someone has considered locking this thread, but I think it would be a credit to the forum if the idea was simply poo-pooed into oblivion.

I have to say I agree, it's not going anywhere it's only causing a rift between opposing viewpoints...this community is small enough as it is.

Want to play a translation/hack? download it, and if you care enough make it pretty yourself.

[PCEngineHell]

The dicks who joined this forum a month ago don't care about the translator because they've only been in the scene since XMas 2014 and they've never created anything of their own anyway so respect for hard work is meaningless. To them, hard work is "eBay self employment" and flipping Wonder Momo for $500 because TURBO RULES DUDE!

Basically sums a lot of this up. Community leeches looking for new ways to turn a nickle into a quarter. We get people coming here all the time to leech off the tech support so they can sell mods on ebay and other forums. Then we have noobs come around here singing up for raffles so they can win shit to flip. Then we have those other noobs that try to suck the sales threads dry so they can complete their Turbografx collection they just started last tuesday, because they have been long time Turbo fans, since sometime last 2014 when they saw it on a youtube video.

Given all of this, the fact that we have noobs on this thread now posting why they think all of this is perfectly fine is no surprise. Basically a bunch of cum buckets with a heightened sense of self-entitlement, with no respect for the TG scene, the community here, the translation/dev scene, or any original IP owners.