Retro VGS Game Console

Mathius · 03/28/2015, 10:00 PM

I'm not sure when this was officially announced but Micheal Katz and Retro Magazine appear to be working on a new cartridge based games console. A detail that bludgeoned me aside the head was the the system's shell is going to be directly based on the Atari Jaguar! I can only hope that they design some sort of dust protector for the cart slot.

A Kickstarter campaign will be announced soon if anyone wants to help out. I'm pretty excited personally. The idea behind it is since the industry is moving away from physical releases this system will cater to those of us who enjoy having a box, cart and manual. Here's a link to more info:

wayback.facebook.com/RETROVGS
wayback.retrovgs.com

esteban · 03/28/2015, 11:46 PM

What the heck?

I don't know how I feel about this until I read the details on the publishing rights/licensing...

If this is a new proprietary console with the restrictive licensing/publishing contracts of yesteryear, well, then they can suck my left one.

THAT SAID, I am really interested in whether this idea (a new cartridge-based console) will get traction.

I certainly think the idea is neat! And I actually love that the Jaguar shell is being re-purposed. IT IS SWEET POETIC JUSTICE that the lame Jaguar (sorry folks) is getting second life...something that it deserved, I feel.

I love that this is a Jaguar shell.

I hope it has a better fate than the OOOYAHHH.

Psycho Punch · 03/29/2015, 12:34 AM

To avoid writing a lot of text I'll only say this: cartridge-based OUYA, good luck, you'll need it!!!

MotherGunner · 03/29/2015, 12:35 AM

Oh no, not another "me too buying the Jaguar molds" effort.

HotRod DS-final.pdf

Mathius · 03/29/2015, 12:41 AM

I think it's a little early to start throwing out judgements. We'll see what the future holds.

Tatsujin · 03/29/2015, 05:19 AM

but why the JAG mold again?? lol LOL L O L

Dan Iacovelli · 03/29/2015, 11:00 AM

why the jag mold?
Simple because it cost more money to make a new mold from scratch.
by Mike NOT-THAT-Kennedy buying the molds for jaguar console and carts it saved money.
take in mind the following:
this is a whole new system only the cases will have jaguar look.
I didn't need a console case but I ordered a cart case for my skunk flash cart
btw: they sold 150 clear jaguar cases and 500 cart cases (which exceeds the amount they planned to sell to help with cost)

TurboGrafx · 03/29/2015, 11:05 AM

Something to keep an eye on. The worst thing that happens is that it is terrible, which many people are probably think already. Maybe it will surprise us.

elmer · 03/29/2015, 12:03 PM

Quote from: Mathius on 03/29/2015, 12:41 AMI think it's a little early to start throwing out judgements. We'll see what the future holds.

I disagree ... it's exactly the time to take a cold hard look, and think through some of the issues ... before the shills fire people up with stories of how wonderful it will be, and before the marks put down their money on kickstarter.

There's a thread on Assembler Games with some good comments ...

https://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?56145-A-Cart-based-console-hitting-kickstarterer

For my own 2c, look at it from an indie-developer's POV ...

Either the Retro VGS guys sell you the carts and ...

How much is it going to cost an indie to produce each cart
How many do you have to order at a time
How long is it going to take to get them
How big is the market

Or the Retro VGS guys flash the carts on-demand and sell them from their online store ...

How much are they going to take from each sale
How big is the market

When you look at it that way ... you'll get a good idea of why this looks like a cocaine and ego fueled disaster in the making.

There are good reasons why cartridges were abandoned.

BTW ... if these are flash-cartridges (probably the most affordable tech for a cartridge), then do you realize that typcial flash chips are only rated for 10 or 20 year data-retention?

So by the time that your precious Retro VGS cartridges get to the age that the PCE's cartridges are now ... they'll be scrap.

If you really want to plug in a physical object, then someone could just design a "retro" system that boots off a nice-and-cheap SDCARD.

Oh, look, one already exists ... https://code.google.com/p/mist-board/

Medic_wheat · 03/29/2015, 12:17 PM

Hate to say it but cartridge games have evolved into the DC and Vita games.

poponon · 03/29/2015, 02:28 PM

Only way this could be interesting is if they limit the hardware to 4th or 5th gen stuff. Especially if they released free + intuitive development tools alongside it.

Otherwise it's just going to be a proprietary pc with proprietary media. see: doomed to failure

Also the controller isn't looking so hot

SignOfZeta · 03/29/2015, 03:48 PM

"There will be no system updates, digital downloads or buggy games."

That part I love. I would actually buy an entire system based on this promise, but not this one. Every single other thing about this idea is dumb. He wants to "promote collectability?" Is there seriously not enough of that? Do we not have dozens of threads on this forum alone documenting how completely out of control "collectability" has gotten? Aren't Amibos stupid enough?

And using a Jag case...I'd have to see the specifics but this doesn't make much sense to me. The advantages should be few if any. The PCB should be a fraction of the size of the Jag's, so it'll need to be designed, unnaturally, to stretch to to the mounting points inside the case. You could retool the case or produce an in-between riser peg system or something, but if you're doing this at a level of mass production needed for a machine like this then it seems extremely unlikely that using old Jag molds would be cheaper than just drawing up a new case. This is 2015 after all. Then there is the stigma of having your brand new machine look exactly like one of the shittiest excuses for a console to ever be built, which is considerable. It's not that the Jag shape is bad or anything, in fact it looks great in alternate colors, but a pragmatically thinking person would have to wonder why you, as a console manufacturer, would be cool with reminding people about the Jag with your new machine. It's quite likely that this guy ACTUALLY THINKS THE JAG WAS GOOD, and do you want to buy a machine from a maniac like that?

And then there is the question of software. I'd love to play a 16-bit Yoshi's Island 2, but who's going to make it? Nintendo is busy making other stuff now and the indie programmer scene, by and large, hasn't really shown me it can actually make legit AAA games in the style of 20 years ago. The economies just aren't large enough.

elmer · 03/29/2015, 03:56 PM

Quote from: poponon on 03/29/2015, 02:28 PMOnly way this could be interesting is if they limit the hardware to 4th or 5th gen stuff. Especially if they released free + intuitive development tools alongside it.

So, basically a Saturn EverDrive cartridge with 4MB RAM, an SDCARD, and a USB connector?

Nice and cheap, and takes advantage of the plentiful supply of cheap existing machines.

Now that people have figured out how to bypass Sega's protection and boot a CD directly from a cartridge, you wouldn't even need to pay Sega a cent for licensing if you wanted to release stuff on CD instead of SDCARD.

Bet you could make a kickstarter campaign to pay krikzz to do that that would have a better chance of market success than the Retro VGS.

Dan Iacovelli · 03/29/2015, 04:36 PM

listen to this podcast with mike why he decied to use jag cases. and other stuff and then decide if you should diss it or not. http://www.allgengamers.com/home/2015/3/3/episode-190-the-retro-vgs.html

all you guys are putting it down before it starts

MotherGunner · 03/29/2015, 05:48 PM

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/29/2015, 04:36 PMlisten to this podcast with mike why he decied to use jag cases. and other stuff and then decide if you should diss it or not. http://www.allgengamers.com/home/2015/3/3/episode-190-the-retro-vgs.html

all you guys are putting it down before it starts

No disrespect was intended by me at least, but I need to ask: What's your dog in this fight?

Dan Iacovelli · 03/29/2015, 06:03 PM

none at all, just love that its retro (and despite the system name it has no connection with my show)
retro is what started video games before it was retro, if it wasn't for the likes of atari,intellivision or nes, we wouldn't have next generation systems.

poponon · 03/29/2015, 06:12 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 03/29/2015, 03:48 PMAnd using a Jag case...I'd have to see the specifics but this doesn't make much sense to me. The advantages should be few if any. The PCB should be a fraction of the size of the Jag's, so it'll need to be designed, unnaturally, to stretch to to the mounting points inside the case. You could retool the case or produce an in-between riser peg system or something, but if you're doing this at a level of mass production needed for a machine like this then it seems extremely unlikely that using old Jag molds would be cheaper than just drawing up a new case. This is 2015 after all. Then there is the stigma of having your brand new machine look exactly like one of the shittiest excuses for a console to ever be built, which is considerable. It's not that the Jag shape is bad or anything, in fact it looks great in alternate colors, but a pragmatically thinking person would have to wonder why you, as a console manufacturer, would be cool with reminding people about the Jag with your new machine. It's quite likely that this guy ACTUALLY THINKS THE JAG WAS GOOD, and do you want to buy a machine from a maniac like that?

l000000000000000l. 100% agreed

SignOfZeta · 03/29/2015, 07:16 PM

It's a fair point, we haven't seen anything. I have a pretty good nose for lameness though. I don't think its a scam or anything, I just don't see the seeds of awesome here.

Arkhan Asylum · 03/29/2015, 07:23 PM

So, it's going to look like an Atari Jaguar?

If the cartridges are going to look as stupid as the Jaguar ones: Pass.

I am not sure what people's obsession is with new retro consoles. It just seems dumb. There's plenty to do with existing stuff.

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/29/2015, 06:03 PMnone at all, just love that its retro (and despite the system name it has no connection with my show)
retro is what started video games before it was retro, if it wasn't for the likes of atari,intellivision or nes, we wouldn't have next generation systems.

Yeah, if it weren't for Intellivision, future console makers wouldn't have had a solid list of "things you shouldn't do".

SignOfZeta · 03/29/2015, 07:31 PM

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/29/2015, 06:03 PMnone at all, just love that its retro (and despite the system name it has no connection with my show)
retro is what started video games before it was retro, if it wasn't for the likes of atari,intellivision or nes, we wouldn't have next generation systems.

It isn't retro. It's brand new. It doesn't even exist yet it's so new.

Dan Iacovelli · 03/29/2015, 08:38 PM

they can't clone any internals to the jaguar something about atari I think even though it open market.
again listen to the podcast he tlaks about the cost wise of making a new mode and getting the jag mold.
the system is new but the games it self are based on retro games.
the fact all games go back to retro: ie tempest evolved to tempest 2k to tempest 3k and so on.

Mathius · 03/29/2015, 09:14 PM

I love all the points being made, but we should really wait and see what the outcome is going to be. They have an uphill battle to make this all work though. I remembered a quote by RJ Mical regarding the 3DO where he states that when something stinks it continues to stink forever. Or something along those lines. The same is true for the Jag (sadly, even though I like the machine). It will be take a miracle of marketing to wash the old stink of the Jag off.

With all that's being said though I'd still hate to see general pessimism ruin the machine early.

Psycho Punch · 03/29/2015, 10:29 PM

This isn't just plain old pessimism Mathius, few people will want to have one, even fewer people will want to program games for it, and a small portion of potential programmers are going to want to pay for cartridge production unless the creators of the console "publish" it. If digital media is used to distribute games, great, but it gets closer to the OUYA with little to no differences (besides the Jaguar shell and cart slot).

The best case scenario, if they're lucky and competent, is a year of relevance with ports of other platforms like PC and Android and then attention of the small userbase wil go exclusively to emulation support on the device. It's logic + prior history of similar devices. They should stick to manufacturing Jaguar shells and publishing Jaguar homebrew cartridges because that makes more sense and will contribute to retrogaming more than this "retro" console.

elmer · 03/29/2015, 10:32 PM

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/29/2015, 04:36 PMlisten to this podcast with mike why he decied to use jag cases. and other stuff and then decide if you should diss it or not.

OK, I listened to it ... and got bored by the BS at about 40 minutes.

At least one of the guys in the podcast is doing a pack-in game for the Retro VGS ... and therefore has a financial interest in its initial sales. Excellent objective reporting, I can certainly trust these guys' opinions!

I loved the bit about them not being able to get anyone to design the hardware for them ... all the guys that they start working with suddenly become busy on other projects after a while and bail out. That's a really good sign.

As is Mike's (the guy behind it ... and a marketing guy) commenting on how very hard it is to design a 2D console these days, and how they can't figure out if it should have a composite or hi-def output.

Hahahahahaha ... look around for 10 minutes at what's already out there ... FPGA retro machines with VGA outputs that can connect to an LCD OR an old TV. Not a difficult design decision ... lo-res s-video/rgb output for a TV, plus a built-in scan-doubler for 720p VGA output to an LCD.

Yes, HDMI would be nicer than VGA ... but there are prohibitive licensing fees for using the proprietary/patented HDMI connector/bitstream.

Then there's their agony of what a 2D sequel to the Neo Geo would have been capable of ... well perhaps they could just look at the 5th gen machines and the mid 1990's 2D arcade boards ... that's maybe a week's worth of research.

Anyway ... this all means that the current crop of their pack-in indie developers don't have a real clue what they're developing for, and are probably all just hoping to port bloody Unity projects to the machine.

BTW ... I know a team that got a 2D "retro" project funded through Kickstarter ... apparently they don't have a clue about building a real retro game with limited resources, and are having problems hitting framerate on modern console hardware. I'm sure that they're not the only modern "retro" developer that would scream if they really had to develop on something running at less than 1GHz with 1GB of RAM.

But that's all irrelevent ... after all, the whole thing is about the love of the "retro" games and the joy of owning real cartridges.

So, let's see about those beautiful cartridges.

Well, he saying that there's an approx $8 manufacturing cost for a cart+box+manual. I suspect that that means that they can't go for anything larger than a 128MB flash chip ($1.70 at 1000 qty) ... i.e. 1/5 the size of a CDROM.

That's not a lot these days ... but hey, it's "real retro" so everyone will be happy with limited sound/graphics compared to the latest "less-real retro" iPhone game.

Anyway, back to money ... taking their "high" $40 selling price ... there is mention of a "high" $25 back to the developer.

$40-$25-$8 = $7 for their "royalty" ... BTW, you did hear the quickly-glossed-over mention of their "royalty" didn't you?

So ... it's got nothing to do with the love of "retro" ... it's about the money ... surprise, surprise.

As usual with the marketing guys ... they've identified their market-segment, and they've decided what those people might be willing to pay for a "product" ... but they still don't have a clue about exactly what it is that they'll be selling ... that's up to someone else to figure out.

This sounds like a really well planned operation that couldn't possibly go wrong.

Quote from: Mathius on 03/29/2015, 09:14 PMI remembered a quote by RJ Mical regarding the 3DO where he states that when something stinks it continues to stink forever.

I'm glad that you mentioned the 3DO ... this has exactly the same stink of ego and marketing wishfulness that Trip Hawkins was spouting when the 3DO came out.

At least he had the decency to get large companies to fund the disaster rather than asking the general public to do so (on KickStarter).

Quote from: Mathius on 03/29/2015, 09:14 PMWith all that's being said though I'd still hate to see general pessimism ruin the machine early.

I'd rather see someone with a plausible plan come forward.

BTW ... I know that I'm coming off as a totally-negative ass here ... but I'm getting really tired of seeing KickStarter being used to fund someone's half-thought-through scheme to get-rich-quick.

These guys are supposed to have been in the industry for ever ... if none of their rich friends/contacts will fund this damned thing, then there's a reason.

SignOfZeta · 03/29/2015, 10:53 PM

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/29/2015, 08:38 PMthey can't clone any internals to the jaguar something about atari I think even though it open market.
again listen to the podcast he tlaks about the cost wise of making a new mode and getting the jag mold.
the system is new but the games it self are based on retro games.
the fact all games go back to retro: ie tempest evolved to tempest 2k to tempest 3k and so on.

Wait, are you saying older things came before present day things?

MY MIND IT CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!

If a developer exists that can make the most of this machine they should just make Neo carts.

Btw, why on God's earth would anyone even want to clone Jag internals? Is there a shortage of these POS machines? Did they all suffer BIOS bit rot and melt? Last I checked they were pretty worthless and common, but then I don't follow Atari stuff.

Mathius · 03/29/2015, 11:10 PM

^^Hey Zeta! Good to see you back, brother. I was worried about you. Hope all is swell.

Quote from: guest on 03/29/2015, 10:29 PMThis isn't just plain old pessimism Mathius

Point taken.

I guess I am just really wanting to see a return to the old days in this world of digital downloads and zero risk taking. Maybe this isn't the console that'll make it happen, but it is a nice dream.

Arkhan Asylum · 03/29/2015, 11:13 PM

The whole thing sounds dumb to me. I'll stick to developing for MSX and PC Engine instead.

Inferno has working doors now.

and really, if they can't decide between retro or hi-def, it says they're out of touch with anything retro gamers are currently doing, and they honestly shouldn't be bothering.

TurboGrafx · 03/30/2015, 06:29 AM

Curious to see the price when it's finished.

PCEngineHell · 03/30/2015, 08:34 AM

This thing...umm...uhhh...nah, I will pass. No fucks given.

elmer · 03/30/2015, 11:28 AM

Quote from: TurboGrafx on 03/30/2015, 06:29 AMCurious to see the price when it's finished.

The podcast mentioned "less than $200, probably $180" ... that's for the console, 2 controllers and the pack-in game.

Not a bad price at all for a major-manufacturer's heavily-marketed new console.

But for this ... to play small indie iPhone games ... I think that I can spend my "retro" money better elsewhere.

Dan Iacovelli · 03/30/2015, 11:33 AM

what ever dudes all hear is complaining so this my last post on this topic

CrackTiger · 03/30/2015, 12:30 PM

This isn't retro. Current consoles and all computers/devices are already flooded with faux "retro" style games made by people who are completely oblivious to what makes retro games appealing and feel authentic. There's no point in making another computer in a box pretending to be something generations weaker. If they were at least making it with a <12MHz cpu and a bitch to develop for, it would enter the realm of retro plausibility.

Seems to be tailor made for collectards who call <32-bit gen games "8-bit".

DeshDildo · 03/30/2015, 01:05 PM

Meh... if actual good games get made for it I would be interested. Why not have a receiver like on the Wii for old school light gun action on modern displays?

I honestly have no clue why a major manufacturer (especially Nintendo) hasn't made brand spanking new games for their old consoles. I know it is sort of a niche market (although a growing one) but anything Nintendo shits out these days is gold. Even if the "actual" market isn't large enough the resellers and scalpers will buy up the rest of the releases anyways.

elmer · 03/30/2015, 02:03 PM

Quote from: Desh on 03/30/2015, 01:05 PMI honestly have no clue why a major manufacturer (especially Nintendo) hasn't made brand spanking new games for their old consoles. I know it is still sort of a niche market but anything Nintendo shits out these days is gold. Even if the "actual" market isn't large enough the resellers and scalpers will buy up the rest of the releases anyways.

Let's imagine some rough figures ...

A pro-developer is going to cost you around $100,000 per year, more for a really good one. Take a small team of 5, and give them 2 years (to produce a high enough quality game that Nintendo would put their name on - this is a very low estimate for a Nintendo game) ... that's $1,000,000.

Let's add in say, another $500,000 in part-time management, office, HR, and other costs ... and in Miyamoto-san flying in a couple of times to steer the project.

Getting the cart manufacturing back up for a smallish run ... say another $1,000,000.

Throw in some marketing ... it's Nintendo, after all ... say $1,500,000 to round out the figures.

The carts/box/manuals themselves ... let's be really generous and go with the Retro VGS figure of $8 cost.

We've already decided that it's a niche market, so let's go for a small production run of 60,000 carts ... that's another $500,000.

So that's a $4,500,000 spend ... so you'd want to project at least $9,000,000 to have a reasonable ROI.

That gives us $9,000,000/60,000 = $150 per game.

That's Nintendo's wholesale selling price. Add in a 20% distribution markup and a 30% retail markup ... and that's $235 per game to the buyer.

Are there 60,000 people out there willing to pay $235 for a new Nintendo SNES game?

I don't know ... there could be ... would you?

bob · 03/30/2015, 05:36 PM

Quote from: MotherGunner on 03/29/2015, 05:48 PM
Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/29/2015, 04:36 PMlisten to this podcast with mike why he decied to use jag cases. and other stuff and then decide if you should diss it or not. http://www.allgengamers.com/home/2015/3/3/episode-190-the-retro-vgs.html

all you guys are putting it down before it starts
No disrespect was intended by me at least, but I need to ask: What's your dog in this fight?

He has money in the project someplace

Dan Iacovelli · 03/30/2015, 06:04 PM

Quote from: galam on 03/30/2015, 05:36 PMHe has money in the project someplace

No I do not, its not connected to my show(VGS) or any thing like that the only money I have invested in it is 8.00 for the clear cart case. thats it. so this is my final word

MotherGunner · 03/30/2015, 06:39 PM

Dan is annoyed with us...

bob · 03/30/2015, 06:47 PM

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/30/2015, 11:33 AMwhat ever dudes all hear is complaining so this my last post on this topic

I didnt really think you did, i just wanted to prove this post wrong.

Dan Iacovelli · 03/30/2015, 07:27 PM

Quote from: galam on 03/30/2015, 06:47 PM
Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/30/2015, 11:33 AMwhat ever dudes all hear is complaining so this my last post on this topic
I didnt really think you did, i just wanted to prove this post wrong.

funny dude, as I said I have nothing involved with besides interest. retro vgs sounds like good thing
and despite what I said I'm also in wait and see mode like every one else. would be interested what kickstarter project they do. annoyed by others on this subject maybe,its prob because they are putting it down before launch. remember they put down great inventors before they came out with their inventions like television and now we have gone from crt to led from 9 inch to 60 or 70 inch tvs

MotherGunner · 03/30/2015, 08:18 PM

You're equating these guys to great inventors like Tesla and Doc Brown?

Dan Iacovelli · 03/30/2015, 08:40 PM

all I'm saying don't diss it until you you see it.
or in more simpler terms : don't judge the book by its cover.

cr8zykuban0 · 03/30/2015, 08:53 PM

this is my first time reading this but i'm looking forward to see ideas for this system.

SignOfZeta · 03/30/2015, 09:30 PM

I listened to his whole appearance on the Podcast. He's a guy who is annoyed by the same aspects of modern gaming that drive me crazy too: constant updates, games that are garbage when shipped and only get fixes if enough people buy the game, never ended saving/loading screens, etc. He strikes me as %100 genuine and very optimistic. I agree %100 that the fact that it takes an hour or more to get a WiiU up and running out of the box is total horseshit.

However, going exclusively by what the game machine's own "creator" (if you consider "coming up with a name" actually creating something) says himself in this podcast episode and on his own FB page it's very obvious that this guy has no idea what he's doing. He may very well produce the machine, but only after he learns all the stuff he doesn't know about product design, which is everything. The discussion of it being "HD" or not is just silly. Have you played a SNES game on a WiiU over HDMI? It's motherfucking flawlessly perfect. That's what you want.

Talking about a price point, guilded carts, things like that, before having any details on hardware whatseover, no games that can be named, nobody genuinely attached at all that can be named, come to think of it...he may have a fully formed idea what what he wants the system to be, but I don't think he knows how to get it. Buying a ton of scrap in the shape of "Jag-Wire" molds isn't a step forward, it's an 2000lb albatross around his neck. If the system does get made, I think the odds of those molds actually being used are maybe 50/50 at best.

Now, a lot of Kickstarter ideas start out this amorphous and still end up being decent products in the end. The creators simply learn how to do it once they're responsible for the $200k someone donated to them. However, his part of the project is currently "resident dreamer" and by no means designer, creator, CEO, or anything like that.

And honestly, what actually -IS- this thing? Is it actually built around old fashioned hardware with stuff like sound chips, CPUs with special 2D game related functions, DMA access for hardware, etc? If so, what will it be? Will it be based on a 68k or some new chip that's less powerful than anything currently availible? Or will it be a "fake retro" like Neo Geo X and all those keychain systems they give away in catcher machines? If it's like that then...you know what's being done all over the place, right? If you really like "retro" games (whatever that means) then are you aware of the Japanese doujin Windows scene, which is absolutely awash with great old fashioned stuff? Have you not seen what Arc is doing with Windows based arcade boards? As someone else here mentioned, if you want to know what would have come after Neo Geo, well, it was Dreamcast, Naomi, Atomiswave, Taito Type X, and a number of other machines as well as Nintendo handhelds, which are still a good place for 2D. All this stuff actually did happen. Have you played Dolphin Blue (Atomiswave) or Astro Boy (GBA) I ask because those are the sorts of things that already exist that you'd probably love.

I wish him the best of luck because if he nails it then I probably want one, but I have zero confidence it will happen.

mickcris · 03/30/2015, 09:45 PM

If they didn't want people to speculate about the console, they should not have announced it so early without giving any details. I don't really see it succeeding, but I could be wrong.

elmer · 03/30/2015, 10:39 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 03/30/2015, 09:30 PMI listened to his whole appearance on the Podcast. He's a guy who is annoyed by the same aspects of modern gaming that drive me crazy too: constant updates, games that are garbage when shipped and only get fixes if enough people buy the game, never ended saving/loading screens, etc. He strikes me as %100 genuine and very optimistic. I agree %100 that the fact that it takes an hour or more to get a WiiU up and running out of the box is total horseshit.

I totally agree ... he's nailed a real problem with modern digital-download-gaming.

QuoteNow, a lot of Kickstarter ideas start out this amorphous and still end up being decent products in the end. The creators simply learn how to do it once they're responsible for the $200k someone donated to them. However, his part of the project is currently "resident dreamer" and by no means designer, creator, CEO, or anything like that.

He's old enough to have been around the industry for a while, business-savvy enough to be running a Retro Gaming magazine, marketing savvy enough to be out there promoting this up, and has enough finance experience to have decided what the cost of the machines and cartridges will be, and what cut he's going to get from the "royalties" on each cartridge.

But yet, he still doesn't have any real specs or hard design goals for the machine ... except to fit into his $2000 set of Jag-Wire molds.

That combination scares the living daylights out of me.

QuoteI wish him the best of luck because if he nails it then I probably want one, but I have zero confidence it will happen.

You've aired a lot of my concerns in a much kinder, and more eloquent way, than I did ... thank you.

Dan Iacovelli · 03/30/2015, 10:50 PM

its called marketing, getting the attention of the public before the release . movie companies been doing it for ages (trailers) not mention game companies been doing as well announce the product before the release ( a certain company comes to mind did a 10-10-10 ad for its system)
Wrestling promotions been doing it as well for big events ( JJ's Global Force Wrestling announced a show vegas even before they got the whole roster set or a tv deal)

whisper2053 · 03/30/2015, 11:01 PM

Quote from: dan Iacovelli on 03/30/2015, 10:50 PMits called marketing, getting the attention of the public before the release . movie companies been doing it for ages (trailers) not mention game companies been doing as well announce the product before the release ( a certain company comes to mind did a 10-10-10 ad for its system)
Wrestling promotions been doing it as well for big events ( JJ's Global Force Wrestling announced a show vegas even before they got the whole roster set or a tv deal)

The difference between movie premieres and wrestling promotions vs. this thing is that neither of the former are intended to be marketed to a niche audience. They're for general consumption to the average Joe & Jane on the street. A 'retro-based gaming console' is, by its very nature, going to appeal *only* to a very very limited audience, which in turn means you are already hobbled in terms of positive financial gain from its sale. The rest, as elmer and Zeta have spelled out, is just downhill from there. It's a cool idea, and WOULD be really neat to see actually take off...but pie-in-the-sky, cart-before-the-horse style dreaming isn't going to make it a financially SOUND idea.

SignOfZeta · 03/30/2015, 11:15 PM

He's marketing a name, a 20 year old case, and a very very vague concept. Other than that it's all hot air. Movie studios very rarely advertise movies until they have a director or a star or...something, anything, and movie studios always have a distribution method and customers lined up before they do anything. This guy isn't even as far along as Ghostbusters IV.

Mishran · 03/31/2015, 05:45 AM

Is it just a coincidence that this is all popping up so close to April 1st?

I know I can't be the only one who thought about this. People have gone to great length for April Fool's jokes in the past, so who knows. Guess we'll know tomorrow.

TurboGrafx · 03/31/2015, 06:32 AM

Quote from: Mishran on 03/31/2015, 05:45 AMIs it just a coincidence that this is all popping up so close to April 1st?

I know I can't be the only one who thought about this. People have gone to great length for April Fool's jokes in the past, so who knows. Guess we'll know tomorrow.

Interesting lol. Never thought of that.