Retro VGS Game Console

[mickcris]

Is it just a coincidence that this is all popping up so close to April 1st?

I know I can't be the only one who thought about this. People have gone to great length for April Fool's jokes in the past, so who knows. Guess we'll know tomorrow.

I doubt it. The first thread that I saw about it was started on 1/30 on nintendoage:
http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=141995
Its just getting talked about more now.

[Opethian]

the long con...

[DeshDildo]

I honestly have no clue why a major manufacturer (especially Nintendo) hasn't made brand spanking new games for their old consoles.  I know it is still sort of a niche market but anything Nintendo shits out these days is gold.  Even if the "actual" market isn't large enough the resellers and scalpers will buy up the rest of the releases anyways.

Let's imagine some rough figures ...

A pro-developer is going to cost you around $100,000 per year, more for a really good one. Take a small team of 5, and give them 2 years (to produce a high enough quality game that Nintendo would put their name on - this is a very low estimate for a Nintendo game) ... that's $1,000,000.

Let's add in say, another $500,000 in part-time management, office, HR, and other costs ... and in Miyamoto-san flying in a couple of times to steer the project.

Getting the cart manufacturing back up for a smallish run ... say another $1,000,000.

Throw in some marketing ... it's Nintendo, after all ... say $1,500,000 to round out the figures.

The carts/box/manuals themselves ... let's be really generous and go with the Retro VGS figure of $8 cost.

We've already decided that it's a niche market, so let's go for a small production run of 60,000 carts ... that's another $500,000.

So that's a $4,500,000 spend ... so you'd want to project at least $9,000,000 to have a reasonable ROI.

That gives us $9,000,000/60,000 = $150 per game.

That's Nintendo's wholesale selling price. Add in a 20% distribution markup and a 30% retail markup ... and that's $235 per game to the buyer.

Are there 60,000 people out there willing to pay $235 for a new Nintendo SNES game?

I don't know ... there could be ... would you?

I think if a NEW game was around the $80 price point people would be lining up.  That market is going to have A LOT of people buying more than one copy.  Let's face it, probably at least 25-30% are going to be people that buy one to play and one to keep sealed because OMG rare Nintendo item. 

I also don't know that a huge marketing budget would be necessary.  I haven't personally seen any major advertising for Amiibos and look how bat shit crazy people are going over those things.

In any event the only thing I was trying to say is that I personally feel it would be worth the risk for a big company to see if there is a decent market.  If there were, your cost to produce more and more would go down and could lead to other things like re-releasing old hardware (or at least a very nice emulated version with HDMI support etc). 

In reality, Nintendo has REALLY never stepped away from their heritage.  How many new games do they release that aren't based off a franchise started on the good old NES?

[SignOfZeta]

Nintendo also rarely really leaves anything out of print for long, so there isn't any point in releasing stuff for old machines. The WiiU can emulate any and all of thier old hardware to an EXTREMELY high degree of acuracy. If they want to sell something that looks old on purpose, the new machine can do that too, and all on a machine that actually exists with 9 million sold units and a controller selection that accommodates almost anything, analog, digital, touch pad, light gun...the people who make retro-style games are right there right now doing it.

I think those exited by the idea of the White Jag would learn a lot by looking at what's already on the market and I'm being serious about this.

[xcrement5x]

the long con...

Hey coincidentally is anyone interested in a Predator themed pinball game?

[SignOfZeta]

I will play any new pinball machine, but ideally I'd prefer one with %1000 less murder and gore and grossness.

[NecroPhile]

Pretty much everything this device is meant to accomplish could be done on a Vita.  Real carts, workable fees for indie devs and/or smaller print runs, and it'll handle whatever fake 16-bit aesthetic you can toss at it.

what ever dudes all hear is complaining so this my last post on this topic

We're okay with that, though you're obviously not going to stop.  If you can't handle intelligent discourse about the pros AND cons of something, then pack up your rah-rah-cheerleading and hit the road.

If they didn't want people to speculate about the console, they should not have announced it so early without giving any details.  I don't really see it succeeding, but I could be wrong.

Amen, comrade.

[SignOfZeta]

I agree. The Vita is pretty good at exactly what this guy wants.

[Dan Iacovelli]

I'm interested in the system but like every body I'm in wait and see mode.if its good great if not at least they tried. I have problems to worry about like certain trade show in IL (which is why you won't see me at MGC,because of cost and other issues).
I don't have vista or do I desire one.
have 3 other projects as well, a 7800 and jaguar game being planned thanks to basic compiler languages as well plans retooling my first Batari basic game for the 2600.
plus I have work on the releasing the past vgs programs and the jagfest issues and not to mention work on the jagfest 10th anniversary issue with a jaguar price guide.
Did I mention I'm still unemployed but I'm in no hurry to look for a job in retail again.
so go ahead talk amongst your selves, and if you want to kick me out of this forum fine I belong to others.

[SignOfZeta]

Obviously you don't want a Vita. Almost nobody does, hence the terrible failure of the system. My point is that if you actually LOOKED at the thing and saw what kind of software is on it, you might be way more interested. I didn't get my Vita for all those AAA Arab killing games that look 3/4 as good as the PS3 version. I got it for indie games and 2D stuff. If you're wondering "what would it be like if they still made 2D games?", then get a Vita and see. You'd see Blazblue, Super Robot Wars Z3, Dragon's Crown, and a whole bunch of 2D indie stuff that's totally worth your time, vastly better than all but one or two Jag games, if I could use that as a metric. And you get a great controller, and the ability to play that mainstream AAA crap, and if you'd rather play the stuff on a bigger screen, that's what the Playstation TV is, a consolized Vita.

[elmer]

If you'd rather play the stuff on a bigger screen, that's what the Playstation TV is, a consolized Vita.

I've never been that interested in the handheld "Vita" version, but I was really hoping that the Playstation TV would take off ... it's a nice cheap little home-console, with at least some quality-bar for the products so that it's not full of total crap.

Sony are bending over backwards to be friendly to developers these days ... and their business model is reasonable.

[SignOfZeta]

Their business model is terrible. They've been losing money like an oil fire for several years now. They've sold their headquarters. They're completely fucked.

[elmer]

Their business model is terrible. They've been losing money like an oil fire for several years now. They've sold their headquarters. They're completely fucked.

Haha ... as a major corporate conglomerate ... yes, totally. They're screwed.

For game developers ... well I'm seeing them as a whole lot better than they used to be in the PS2 days ... even Nintendo have climbed off their high-horse and realized that they need to have more 3rd-party developers. Of the traditional consoles ... it's only Microsoft that still seem to be acting like asses.

[esadajr]

I know I'm in the minority but I feel positive about this project, even if it doesn't turn out to be the second coming of the SNES.

I rather put money on something crazy like this than the disappointing X1/PS4.

[PCEngineHell]

don't judge the book by its cover.

Do you even read books? Your English is so bad it's giving me a migraine. Looking over your post I get the impression you don't read or write much of anything. That or you said fuck all in regards to basic grammar skills and just decided to put post together using a tablet with one arm tied behind your back.

[Dan Iacovelli]

don't judge the book by its cover.

Do you even read books? Your English is so bad it's giving me a migraine. Looking over your post I get the impression you don't read or write much of anything. That or you said fuck all in regards to basic grammar skills and just decided to put post together using a tablet with one arm tied behind your back.

if you can't say any thing nice don't say any thing at all.
is it necessary to drop f bombs I have find it rude.
at times I get excited and do pron to mistakes.
I have a cousin with downs and he types as bad as he speaks ,but I don't put him down for it.

[NecroPhile]

at times I get excited and do pron to mistakes.

2 Dans 1 Convention?

[PCEngineHell]

don't judge the book by its cover.

Do you even read books? Your English is so bad it's giving me a migraine. Looking over your post I get the impression you don't read or write much of anything. That or you said fuck all in regards to basic grammar skills and just decided to put post together using a tablet with one arm tied behind your back.

if you can't say any thing nice don't say any thing at all.
is it necessary to drop f bombs I have find it rude.
at times I get excited and do pron to mistakes.
I have a cousin with downs and he types as bad as he speaks ,but I don't put him down for it.

Do you even English bro?

[Dan Iacovelli]

at times I get excited and do pron to mistakes.

2 Dans 1 Convention?

2 dans but 2 conventions
Dan Loosen does MGC  and I do VGS
times you can see me head up the jagfest section at mgc but not this year.
this year all my consternation is on VGS. as mentioned before for me to come mgc this year
I would have to take mega bus which means cutting down what I normally bring. cost for travel and hotel was also a factor.

[NecroPhile]

2 dans but 2 conventions

But how many cups?

[o.pwuaioc]

This is bad and you should feel bad.

[Bloufo]

if you can't say any thing nice don't say any thing at all.

Not a snowballs chance. Wrong crowd if that's what you're expecting.
I hear there could be some like minded delicate souls roaming the hallways over at a place like Racketboy. Maybe you'll get more joy there.

[SignOfZeta]

don't judge the book by its cover.

Do you even read books? Your English is so bad it's giving me a migraine. Looking over your post I get the impression you don't read or write much of anything. That or you said fuck all in regards to basic grammar skills and just decided to put post together using a tablet with one arm tied behind your back.

That got a laugh out of me, but then, I'm really tired right now and I read "migrane" as "mini-game" and that version is funnier to me.

[MotherGunner]

"dan Wmacovelli"

😉😝😅

[wildfruit]

This argument should be settled on world of tanks. I think the professor would win.

[esteban]

Dan, my friend, you have endured your first brouhaha here. Welcome to the forums.

[TurboGrafx]

There is a video from gamester81 on youtube that shows some gameplay. I am definitely intrigued by it.

[esadajr]

Tiny Knight adv looks promising.

[LostFlunky]

Tiny Knight adv looks promising.

It does - I just wish they would drop the Jaguar case...

[NightWolve]

Then there is the stigma of having your brand new machine look exactly like one of the shittiest excuses for a console to ever be built, which is considerable. It's not that the Jag shape is bad or anything, in fact it looks great in alternate colors, but a pragmatically thinking person would have to wonder why you, as a console manufacturer, would be cool with reminding people about the Jag with your new machine. It's quite likely that this guy ACTUALLY THINKS THE JAG WAS GOOD, and do you want to buy a machine from a maniac like that?

ROFLMAO! I have to hand it to ya, quite honestly, I don't think I've ever run into someone better at sarcasm than you.

So, I just learned about these plans for such a console via PD's late-to-the-party thread and think I'll just leave Zeta's quote to also pretty much speak for my opinion on it. That is all. ;)

[LostFlunky]

Then there is the stigma of having your brand new machine look exactly like one of the shittiest excuses for a console to ever be built, which is considerable. It's not that the Jag shape is bad or anything, in fact it looks great in alternate colors, but a pragmatically thinking person would have to wonder why you, as a console manufacturer, would be cool with reminding people about the Jag with your new machine. It's quite likely that this guy ACTUALLY THINKS THE JAG WAS GOOD, and do you want to buy a machine from a maniac like that?

ROFLMAO! I have to hand it to ya, quite honestly, I don't think I've ever run into someone better at sarcasm than you.

So, I just learned about these plans for such a console via PD's late-to-the-party thread and think I'll just leave Zeta's quote to also pretty much speak for my opinion on it. That is all. ;)

Sarcastic or not - he speaks the truth.  The biggest reason I have for doubting these guys is the looming specter of the Jaguar fan-base.  It reeks of failure and disillusion.

We don't need another "Uncle Rico" console.

[elmer]

There is a video from gamester81 on youtube that shows some gameplay. I am definitely intrigued by it.

Just watched it ... so once again, you've got a developer with a financial interest (he's doing the pack-in game) creating a promo/sales video.

Still no real details, but the graphics on Tiny Knight looked approximately like what he said ... SNES-ish. Not actually great quality SNES, maybe more Amiga (they even included Amiga-style tracker music).

I'm going to channel Arkhan here, and say that Tiny Knight itself looked like a low-quality game-school-project Western wannabe copy of a Japanese game.

In the meantime, there are a bunch of responses from people that want 32-bit games, and others that want online capability, and others that want HDMI output, etc. So it's a very divided set of potential customers. Sure, with a high enough spec, you can please them all ... but then what's "retro" about it? At that point you've just got a modern console doing simple low-resolution games. Ouya or PlayStation TV anyone?

I still don't get it ... but it will probably get funded by the clueless-masses, they'll release it (it will be a Raspberry-Pi-clone in a jag-wire case), and then there will be half-a-dozen crappy games before the whole thing collapses.

[jlued686]

I'm just catching up on this today. I don't want to dump on it, but my first thought was if you want to go back to the days of cartridge-based consoles, you can! Right now! Because those consoles still exist! It's not as though every SNES, Genesis, whatever-the-hell you're trying to emulate has been rounded up and thrown in a New Mexico landfill. They exist! People still own them! And, as a matter of fact, new "clone" versions of those consoles seem to be released every single year, incrementally increasing the user base. So why not make a clone system and put your resources into making games for that system? Especially since there's a relatively active homebrew community for nearly every retro console in existence.

Sure, it's a nice dream. But why reinvent the wheel?

EDIT: Oh, and using the Jag mold is a terrible, terrible idea. It's an immediate albatross. Spend the money. Do it right. Like Zeta said: if you're going to go through all this trouble, don't make people associate your product with the shittiest console ever made.

[MotherGunner]

Then there is the stigma of having your brand new machine look exactly like one of the shittiest excuses for a console to ever be built, which is considerable. It's not that the Jag shape is bad or anything, in fact it looks great in alternate colors, but a pragmatically thinking person would have to wonder why you, as a console manufacturer, would be cool with reminding people about the Jag with your new machine. It's quite likely that this guy ACTUALLY THINKS THE JAG WAS GOOD, and do you want to buy a machine from a maniac like that?

ROFLMAO! I have to hand it to ya, quite honestly, I don't think I've ever run into someone better at sarcasm than you.

So, I just learned about these plans for such a console via PD's late-to-the-party thread and think I'll just leave Zeta's quote to also pretty much speak for my opinion on it. That is all. ;)

Sarcastic or not - he speaks the truth.  The biggest reason I have for doubting these guys is the looming specter of the Jaguar fan-base.  It reeks of failure and disillusion.

We don't need another "Uncle Rico" console.

Dude, you made my day!!

[esadajr]

Tiny Knight adv looks promising.

It does - I just wish they would drop the Jaguar case...

Who knows, maybe someone will fit it into a custom case

[Sarumaru]

With as little information there is about this system, I'm going to go ahead and just say that everything about this looks terrible. The case, the name, the demo game.. all of it. Cost effective or not, modeling its case after a failed system is a no-no. People will make associations regardless, not everyone will exercise logic and see it as an entirely new console. Also, entirely new console makes it a NEW CONSOLE. There's nothing retro about that. Why even call it Retro Video Game System? I would've  called it something like 2D Gamestation or whatever else (assuming it's internals are meant for 2D, we're all speculating because the info provided thus far is very vague).

I am not against projects like this, my only gripe is that they are using Kickstarter to fund it. And though there's nothing wrong with that in itself, many retro hopefuls will buy into this idea and it will likely get funded and if it fails shortly after, who cares! They got it funded and made theirs. Just seems   sketchy with the what little info is available to the public and what seems like a lot of indecisiveness on their part (whatever the hell this companies name is). Their intent may have been to hype this project to the public, but with what little is known about this project it will only result in a lot of skepticism and will smell of scam until more solid plans are presented.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I'm going to channel Arkhan here, and say that Tiny Knight itself looked like a low-quality game-school-project Western wannabe copy of a Japanese game.

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Lets not leave out that the controller looks like an inbred trainwreck.   Were the prototypes just SNES controllers hot glued to Jaguar controllers?

The whole thing is just dumb.   We've already got people making games for their respective consoles, targeted at the fanbase for that machine.  Trying to channel them all into one modern place already happened too.

It's called a computer.   Plug your favorite controller in, go on Steam, and download all the 8/16 bit inspired games.

Those are the people that will likely make games for this thing.   

The Ouya is already an abysmal joke.  This isn't going to be any different. 

This is just someone trying to cash in on the ongoing retro gaming craze because they think they know better, or have some insider info that will make their idea work better than others.   

It's not like they're going to make anything as good at the PCE, anyway.

[esteban]

I'm sticking with my original thoughts:

(1) The fact that this is a Jaguar console/cartridge mold DOES NOT MATTER.

JEEZUS, if anything, it helps...it is a hilarious conversation starter, for example. I love the Jaguar-cum-Pheonix narrative: if it is a success, awesome—the curse of Jaguar is broken! Miracle! If it fails, that's what we expected, anyway—curse of the Jaguar killed it.

(2) The licensing structure and fees (who can make cartridges?) is terribly important. This goes hand-in-hand with developer relations...


(3) What incentive is there for developers to support this new platform?

(4) damn, people.

[wildfruit]

Waiting to see how long an unlicensed game takes to appear. I hope its codemasters doing micro machines like they did to Nintendo. Or dizzy 😵

[LostFlunky]

We don't need another "Uncle Rico" console.

Dude, you made my day!!

Yeah, those guys are gonna be making some sweet moolah.

[Psycho Punch]

Waiting to see how long an unlicensed game takes to appear. I hope its codemasters doing micro machines like they did to Nintendo. Or dizzy 😵

LOL, almost no one will want to develop for the system, imagine if they actually restrict developers from developing games for the system with "licensing". Which I wouldn't doubt that could happen since the small amount of info about the console in public already points to a horribly mismanaged project full of wishful thinking.

[sirhcman]

There is a video from gamester81 on youtube that shows some gameplay. I am definitely intrigued by it.

The game looks like garbage

[esteban]

I'd play Tiny Knight based on the demo alone.

[TurboGrafx]

haters gonna hate, but I will probably get this.

[SignOfZeta]

You probably won't, since it probably won't ever come out.

[PCEngineHell]

Looks like eurotrash.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I'd play Tiny Knight based on the demo alone.

As would I.  Personally, the only thing I know that bugs me, is the idea of it using Jag carts, I HATE those things!  I have all mine stacked....very carefully, with little guarantee that they'll stay that way.  A fly buzzing by would knock them off the shelf.  Yeah, I'm a Jag lover, I got's a weird fetish for it, probably since it's an underdog & failed, & just an oddball console in general, like the Gamate or Supervision.  That doesn't make it a great system, but I still enjoy it for whatever reason, but, the carts themselves........

[TurboGrafx]

You probably won't, since it probably won't ever come out.

That may be true, but if it is available I will give it a chance.

[Sarumaru]

Waiting to see how long an unlicensed game takes to appear. I hope its codemasters doing micro machines like they did to Nintendo. Or dizzy 😵

LOL, almost no one will want to develop for the system, imagine if they actually restrict developers from developing games for the system with "licensing". Which I wouldn't doubt that could happen since the small amount of info about the console in public already points to a horribly mismanaged project full of wishful thinking.

Yeah, pretty much.

[cr8zykuban0]

if anything they should have done a different case design.  things already dont look good for this system, more negative than positive news and thoughts but im curious to see more news about the retro vgs as time goes on