Retro VGS Game Console

[o.pwuaioc]

They might also use IndieGoGo for that thing where they get funds regardless of meeting goals..

They have a fixed funding model as well, where you only get paid if the goal is met.  They say that's the way theirs will be set up.

What's even more important is that IndieGogo does not require a working prototype:

https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/204510248-Running-A-Hardware-Campaign

A prototype is not required to use Indiegogo; however, it is highly encouraged.

[crazydean]

So there's a post on their FB page stating that indigogo funding starts tomorrow. Their reasoning is obviously bullshit. What's fun though, is reading through all the troll comments stating that since they switched from kickstarter, they aren't going to fund the project. Ultimately, I can't wait to see how much money people actually throw at this thing.

[SignOfZeta]

Maybe now that we've had a few high profile crowd funding flameouts people in general are starting to understand that just because a Kickstarter type of thing exists claiming to produce a product you want that doesn't mean you have to suspend all disbelieve and drop your entire paycheck that second like some drunken sailor. Maybe.

[CrackTiger]

I didn't see any kind of disclaimer that the RVGS indiegogo is opting to not keep everyone's money if it doesn't meet the minimum requirement of $2 million and they worded it very specifically that if they don't get that, it's not happening.

So I think that in the end, it will be much more profitable for them than anyone speculated.

[esteban]

I didn't see any kind of disclaimer that the RVGS indiegogo is opting to not keep everyone's money if it doesn't meet the minimum requirement of $2 million and they worded it very specifically that if they don't get that, it's not happening.

So I think that in the end, it will be much more profitable for them than anyone speculated.

Wow.

This was just an elaborate shuffling act where backers are subsidizing an inflated purchase price for the Jaguar molds.

BRILLIANTLY EXECUTED.

[elmer]

I didn't see any kind of disclaimer that the RVGS indiegogo is opting to not keep everyone's money if it doesn't meet the minimum requirement of $2 million and they worded it very specifically that if they don't get that, it's not happening.

It's using the "Fixed Funding" option on IndieGogo, it says so right at the top of the page. They only get the money if they reach their $2M goal.

BUT ... now they're shifting the goalposts again. There's no confirmation of the hardware specs, it's all been left vague, and there's now mention that they'll need to hit $3.8M in order to put in the full-sized FPGA that they've been promising.

The FAQ on their own website now says "System Specifications: Pending Revision".

I can't believe that anyone would be stupid enough to put down money on this with not only no protoype, but now without even clear specs of what they'll be buying! 

What a disaster! 

BTW ... nice of them to say that the 3 "creators" will get paid $240,000 each out of the funding to pay them for their time.

[CrackTiger]

I didn't see any kind of disclaimer that the RVGS indiegogo is opting to not keep everyone's money if it doesn't meet the minimum requirement of $2 million and they worded it very specifically that if they don't get that, it's not happening.

It's using the "Fixed Funding" option on IndieGogo, it says so right at the top of the page. They only get the money if they reach their $2M goal.

BUT ... now they're shifting the goalposts again. There's no confirmation of the hardware specs, it's all been left vague, and there's now mention that they'll need to hit $4M in order to put in the full-sized FPGA that they've been promising.

The FAQ on their own website now says "System Specifications: Pending Revision".

I can't believe that anyone would be stupid enough to put down money on this with not only no protoype, but now without even clear specs of what they'll be buying! 

What a disaster! 

It's good to know that it is clear (to those who understand indiegogo) about whether or not they keep the money.

Sounds like all that they are funding is an idea, one so vague that they couldn't even design console or cart shells for it. I'm guessing that they only bothered with the Jaguar casings because they wanted to jump in as fast as they could and cut straight to the part where people donate $2+ million.

[o.pwuaioc]

Nail in the coffin, folks.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/?p=3324908

More smoke and mirrors:

 
Their "prototype controller" playing a game on hardware that doesn't exist sure looks a lot like this:

[CrackTiger]

And there's no way that's Tiny Knight running on RVGS hardware.

If they'd worded it any different, like "the prototype will be modeled after the Wii Controller Pro" or "Wii pad playing the Tiny Knight beta on RGVS protype hardware" or something, it wouldn't be an outright lie intended to part people with their money.

The sad part is how little effort has gone into this whole thing and how successfully they're managed to hook some gullible people.

[johnnykonami]

Just wow.  I don't know why they thought they could get away with that.  Between this, having "Retro" as part of the moniker, and using the Jag shell (seriously, how hard would it be to sculpt an original mold), this thing was doomed to fail.  Ouya part 2.

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah. Those that are falling for it fall for an extremely small and flimsy morsel of hype. Just...idiots with money, I guess.

[grolt]

I like the system in concept - virtual console games just don't have the weight or cache that owning the physical hardware does, and the prospect of being able to program different game systems on one consistent hardware allows for endless possibilities, but it really looks like this is being run poorly and disingenuous.  I hope nobody gets sucked out of cash.

[Psycho Punch]

Nail in the coffin, folks.

My sig is like fine wine. Comedy wine that is, the more time passes the funnier it gets.

[SuperGrafx]

BTW ... nice of them to say that the 3 "creators" will get paid $240,000 each out of the funding to pay them for their time.

And that right there is reason for me to not ever fund this.
No way are these douchebag hipsters getting any of my money.

[grolt]

BTW ... nice of them to say that the 3 "creators" will get paid $240,000 each out of the funding to pay them for their time.

And that right there is reason for me to not ever fund this.
No way are these douchebag hipsters getting any of my money.

But...but...it's a 50% pay cut for what they'd normally get for their services!

[IvanBeavkov]

Just wow.  I don't know why they thought they could get away with that.  Between this, having "Retro" as part of the moniker, and using the Jag shell (seriously, how hard would it be to sculpt an original mold), this thing was doomed to fail.  Ouya part 2.

I think this thing will make the Ouya look like an incredible success. I have actually seen that on store shelves.

[jtucci31]

This image is on their indiegogo. Bleh, i hate it. It looks like shit and is confusing. Red X's mean what? They don't have it? They do but it's a negative for them? (I mean, I do understand it, but it just blows). Also, all other systems having their own controllers they label as "theirs" being a negative? Even though, as pointed out above, it's pretty similar to a Wii U controller.

There will be no system updates for the Retro VGS? What does Transferable Games even mean?



Whatever, their Indiegogo is already at $40k.

EDIT: This is my favorite part. If you pay $500 you get a Retro VGS with a low serial number starting with 1. LOL. 6 people have already bought that.

[grolt]

EDIT: This is my favorite part. If you pay $500 you get a Retro VGS with a low serial number starting with 1. LOL. 6 people have already bought that.

"Low price"

[Psycho Punch]

I think the RETRO VGS is a great idea.  I've bought reproduction carts of classic games for the past 3 years, as well as homebrew games.  I love buying old NES, SNES, or Sega Genesis games that never got an English translation and then finding new life in a repro cart complete with box, manual, and poster fully in English.  I believe the RETRO VGS will be more than just a system for indie titles.  It could be a home for old classics receiving HD Remasters, a breath of fresh air for budding game developers to achieve their dream of developing for a classic system like the SNES, Genesis, or even the Neo Geo, and you can even develop new games that take advantage of the full capabilities of the RETRO VGS.

Just imagine Square Enix, Konami, and Capcom jumping on board to revive their classic Secret of Mana & Final Fantasy titles, Castlevania, or even Mega Man?  If they find the HD Remasters working out, maybe they will even develop original content.

Frankly, I'm tired of the "digital revolution," where everything is downloadable to your hard drive.  Sure, it's convenient.  But I WANT a physical instruction manual, collectible maps & posters, and decent artwork on my game box.  Mike Kennedy knows his RETRO business because he is developing a console that is striving to stay away from the digital world (no internet connection for updates and such).  20 years from now, I want the RETRO VGS to still function without needing some patch from the Internet, unlike the Xbox One where it tries to connect to the Internet for every little thing.  I can't even play Killer Instinct on Xbox One without it saying, "The Console needs to go online for a game update."  You can't even save the game without the update?!?

I haven't heard anything about the system's price yet until the Kickstarter next week.  I wouldn't judge its price just yet until the official announcement.  Please support the RETRO VGS if you can.  I think it will make a statement to the mainstream console manufacturers. 

Quoting the whole thing for posterity in case ctophil edits it out lol.

[esteban]

Seeing how well-thought-out the RVGS is, I am sure the "no system updates" stance will never come back to haunt them.

I know for certain that this console, out of the box, is Godhead. Not simply perfect for 2016, but perfect for any and all circumstances  beyond 2016.

Godhead.

[crazydean]

Ya, I saw the Wii Pro controller pic on their campaign page. I thought they were just copying the design. I didn't realize it was the freaking Wii U controller! How can anyone even consider donating to them after such a lie?

[CrackTiger]

The comparison to current/recent consoles is prrety stupid, as they're not retro 2D consoles. You'd think that they'd go out of their way to not remind you that the RVGS is just another modern device emulating old hardware.

[BlueBMW]

At the end of the day its a glorified OUYA that uses cartridge media.

[mickcris]

interesting post by kevtris:
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/?p=3325199

[GohanX]

Screw the Retro. I want to buy kevtris' system.

[elmer]

interesting post by kevtris:
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/?p=3325199

Now that, I'd buy! I may have to create an account on AtariAge just to say that. 

Isn't it funny that he's competent enough to actually have working versions of his hardware designs all done on a shoestring budget, but the RETRO VGS guys seem more interested in going to conventions and taking pictures of themselves. 

[LostFlunky]

interesting post by kevtris:
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/235430-how-has-this-not-been-posted-yet-retro-vgs/?p=3325199

Now that, I'd buy! I may have to create an account on AtariAge just to say that. 

Isn't it funny that he's competent enough to actually have working versions of his hardware designs all done on a shoestring budget, but the RETRO VGS guys seem more interested in going to conventions and taking pictures of themselves. 

It is all about what motivates you.

[NightWolve]

Seeing how well-thought-out the RVGS is, I am sure the "no system updates" stance will never come back to haunt them.

Yeah, I don't see that or "never have to patch the game" as any positives... There will always be some kind of bug, hopefully not game-crashing like we learned about for some PC Engine CDs, but yeah...

The idea that a system update or patch might some day be available is a good thing, it means that the developers care about their product or game enough to fix something when enough reports come in of a problem and that there's a free means to do so (provided you have an ISP), etc.

I get that perhaps the frequency of patching has been high on modern consoles that support it, but making that 0 and then bragging about it isn't some great solution if you ask me... :/ To think you're gonna restore the discipline of game developers who had much tougher testing cycles and programming standards in the retro days is silly as well.

[Mathius]

Holy Harry Truman this looks bad! I envision future law suits by idiot mouth breathers who backed the thing without anything to show for their misplaced trust.

[grolt]

Holy Harry Truman this looks bad! I envision future law suits by idiot mouth breathers who backed the thing without anything to show for their misplaced trust.

Judging by the first day funding, this will never even come close to reaching the $2m goal, so they won't have to worry about any lawsuits.

[o.pwuaioc]

Holy Harry Truman this looks bad! I envision future law suits by idiot mouth breathers who backed the thing without anything to show for their misplaced trust.

Judging by the first day funding, this will never even come close to reaching the $2m goal, so they won't have to worry about any lawsuits.

I'm not saying it's going to make the goal, but if they replicate today's pledges every day until time's up, they will have reached $2.2M.

[GohanX]

True, but that's not really how crowdfunding works. You generally get a lot of money at the beginning and maybe end, and very little in the middle.

[grolt]

Holy Harry Truman this looks bad! I envision future law suits by idiot mouth breathers who backed the thing without anything to show for their misplaced trust.

Judging by the first day funding, this will never even come close to reaching the $2m goal, so they won't have to worry about any lawsuits.

I'm not saying it's going to make the goal, but if they replicate today's pledges every day until time's up, they will have reached $2.2M.

If we're to use Shenmue III as a benchmark, and perhaps that's being generous considering it had massive E3 exposure, a built-in fanbase and an excellent marketing campaign with rewards and feedback directly from Yu Suzuki, but that one made $2.2m in its opening 8 hours and then $4.1m for the remaining 31 days of the Kickstarter.  If we apply Shenmue's trajectory to RetroVGS, it would close with $140,000.  Crowdfunding campaigns of this sort tend to be incredibly front-loaded, so it would really be a miracle if it reached $2 million, or anything remotely close to that, really.

[esteban]

The RVGS would need a lot of media exposure from popular TubeYou folks to reach 2 mil, I reckon.

Funding depends upon (1) savvy social media skills (2) lucky viral randomness (3) influential sites/personalities championing your cause...

Does RVGS have any of these?

[grolt]

The RVGS would need a lot of media exposure from popular TubeYou folks to reach 2 mil, I reckon.

Funding depends upon (1) savvy social media skills (2) lucky viral randomness (3) influential sites/personalities championing your cause...

Does RVGS have any of these?

Meet the RVGS social media team.

[o.pwuaioc]

Holy Harry Truman this looks bad! I envision future law suits by idiot mouth breathers who backed the thing without anything to show for their misplaced trust.

Judging by the first day funding, this will never even come close to reaching the $2m goal, so they won't have to worry about any lawsuits.

I'm not saying it's going to make the goal, but if they replicate today's pledges every day until time's up, they will have reached $2.2M.

If we're to use Shenmue III as a benchmark, and perhaps that's being generous considering it had massive E3 exposure, a built-in fanbase and an excellent marketing campaign with rewards and feedback directly from Yu Suzuki, but that one made $2.2m in its opening 8 hours and then $4.1m for the remaining 31 days of the Kickstarter.  If we apply Shenmue's trajectory to RetroVGS, it would close with $140,000.  Crowdfunding campaigns of this sort tend to be incredibly front-loaded, so it would really be a miracle if it reached $2 million, or anything remotely close to that, really.

That's a good point, I just thought you meant if it kept up the current momentum. Many more people might be on the fence about it though compared to Shenmue 3. I think it'll do quite a bit more than $140k, but I doubt it'll break a million. Please I hope I'm right.

[Mathius]

(2) lucky viral randomness

I don't know why but I find this phrase amusing.

Meet the RVGS social media team.

*chuckles*

[BlueBMW]

Reading the comments on their Facebook page kind of gives me the same vibe I'm hearing everywhere.  People are interested but want more concrete information on what exactly it will be.  Right now its too vague to be worth throwing money down on.  Also most people seem to be noting that it is too expensive.

In my opinion, the fact that these guys want such a big chunk for their "salaries" is a big turn off.  If its a new business venture then maybe they should scrape by on a minimal stipend until the product starts to turn a profit and then go ahead and pay themselves more.  Paying themselves big on the front end seems to reminiscent of the dot com bubble... lots of funding, big salaries for hopes and dreams that turned into nothing.  Companies went belly up and all the money was gone but the people who were in charge got big paychecks while it lasted.

[Mathius]

Reading the comments on their Facebook page kind of gives me the same vibe I'm hearing everywhere.  People are interested but want more concrete information on what exactly it will be.  Right now its too vague to be worth throwing money down on.  Also most people seem to be noting that it is too expensive.

In my opinion, the fact that these guys want such a big chunk for their "salaries" is a big turn off.  If its a new business venture then maybe they should scrape by on a minimal stipend until the product starts to turn a profit and then go ahead and pay themselves more.  Paying themselves big on the front end seems to reminiscent of the dot com bubble... lots of funding, big salaries for hopes and dreams that turned into nothing.  Companies went belly up and all the money was gone but the people who were in charge got big paychecks while it lasted.

Their front-end salaries won't mean anything when they get sued for product infringement for the 3rd party Wii U pad.

[elmer]

In my opinion, the fact that these guys want such a big chunk for their "salaries" is a big turn off.  If its a new business venture then maybe they should scrape by on a minimal stipend until the product starts to turn a profit and then go ahead and pay themselves more.  Paying themselves big on the front end seems to reminiscent of the dot com bubble... lots of funding, big salaries for hopes and dreams that turned into nothing.  Companies went belly up and all the money was gone but the people who were in charge got big paychecks while it lasted.

Unfortunately, it looks like I was wrong about the salaries. 

Apparently they've heard all the grumbling, and responded that what they actually meant was 37% of the 33% that's not going into manufacturing the consoles. So only $80,000 each.

Seems like it was all just another miscommunication from another one of their lousy and poorly-organized charts! 

[CrackTiger]

They're still asking for half of what they claim their salaries are to work on this "full-time", but does anybody believe that these guys won't be doing any other kind of work to maintain their income?

[PukeSter]

Reading the comments on their Facebook page kind of gives me the same vibe I'm hearing everywhere.  People are interested but want more concrete information on what exactly it will be.  Right now its too vague to be worth throwing money down on.  Also most people seem to be noting that it is too expensive.

In my opinion, the fact that these guys want such a big chunk for their "salaries" is a big turn off.  If its a new business venture then maybe they should scrape by on a minimal stipend until the product starts to turn a profit and then go ahead and pay themselves more.  Paying themselves big on the front end seems to reminiscent of the dot com bubble... lots of funding, big salaries for hopes and dreams that turned into nothing.  Companies went belly up and all the money was gone but the people who were in charge got big paychecks while it lasted.

Their front-end salaries won't mean anything when they get sued for product infringement for the 3rd party Wii U pad.

They actually worked out a licensing deal for the controller.

It's a cheap, third party controller that is notoriously shitty.

That's why it's only $25.

[o.pwuaioc]

Reading the comments on their Facebook page kind of gives me the same vibe I'm hearing everywhere.  People are interested but want more concrete information on what exactly it will be.  Right now its too vague to be worth throwing money down on.  Also most people seem to be noting that it is too expensive.

In my opinion, the fact that these guys want such a big chunk for their "salaries" is a big turn off.  If its a new business venture then maybe they should scrape by on a minimal stipend until the product starts to turn a profit and then go ahead and pay themselves more.  Paying themselves big on the front end seems to reminiscent of the dot com bubble... lots of funding, big salaries for hopes and dreams that turned into nothing.  Companies went belly up and all the money was gone but the people who were in charge got big paychecks while it lasted.

Their front-end salaries won't mean anything when they get sued for product infringement for the 3rd party Wii U pad.

They actually worked out a licensing deal for the controller.

It's a cheap, third party controller that is notoriously shitty.

That's why it's only $25.

You can't call that a "prototype" controller then.

[elmer]

They're still asking for half of what they claim their salaries are to work on this "full-time", but does anybody believe that these guys won't be doing any other kind of work to maintain their income?

Haha, I'm sure that they would ... but it's increasingly looking like a moot point anyway! 

Kevtris's postings today, and especially the latest one that makes it sound like the RETRO VGS FPGA is either going to disappear or be neutered into uselessness means that they've still not decided what-on-earth they're building, 12hrs AFTER starting the crowdfunding.

I really, really, really, can't see this working out well for the "dreamers".

[Mathius]

Reading the comments on their Facebook page kind of gives me the same vibe I'm hearing everywhere.  People are interested but want more concrete information on what exactly it will be.  Right now its too vague to be worth throwing money down on.  Also most people seem to be noting that it is too expensive.

In my opinion, the fact that these guys want such a big chunk for their "salaries" is a big turn off.  If its a new business venture then maybe they should scrape by on a minimal stipend until the product starts to turn a profit and then go ahead and pay themselves more.  Paying themselves big on the front end seems to reminiscent of the dot com bubble... lots of funding, big salaries for hopes and dreams that turned into nothing.  Companies went belly up and all the money was gone but the people who were in charge got big paychecks while it lasted.

Their front-end salaries won't mean anything when they get sued for product infringement for the 3rd party Wii U pad.

They actually worked out a licensing deal for the controller.

It's a cheap, third party controller that is notoriously shitty.

That's why it's only $25.

You can't call that a "prototype" controller then.

This

[NightWolve]

Their front-end salaries won't mean anything when they get sued for product infringement for the 3rd party Wii U pad.

They actually worked out a licensing deal for the controller.

It's a cheap, third party controller that is notoriously shitty.

That's why it's only $25.

You can't call that a "prototype" controller then.

Hah, glad somebody updated the info on that... OK, so there was an explanation, but yet calling it a prototype as if to take credit for the design is strange. Should we expect better from the guys that wanted the Atari Jaguar shell ?? 

[Mathius]

Their front-end salaries won't mean anything when they get sued for product infringement for the 3rd party Wii U pad.

They actually worked out a licensing deal for the controller.

It's a cheap, third party controller that is notoriously shitty.

That's why it's only $25.

You can't call that a "prototype" controller then.

Hah, glad somebody updated the info on that... OK, so there was an explanation, but yet calling it a prototype as if to take credit for the design is strange. Should we expect better from the guys that wanted the Atari Jaguar shell ?? 

That's actually one aspect about this whole ordeal that I am in favor of.

[Arkhan Asylum]

The shit is hitting the fan and spraying all over their faces now.

Kickstarter crowdfunding shit is not supposed to be to fund salaries for your project.   

It is not supposed to be for shitty cash grabs.


Jaguar shell
Pier Solar
Dumb funding scheme


I mean, they've struck out more than an autistic teeball team at this point.

[esteban]

I know I am in the minority, but the ONLY "GOOD" DECISION that these folks have made is to use the Jaguar shell.

As I said before, it is a cheap novelty. Using the Jaguar design is a pathetic attempt to create a faux-vintage legitimacy to the RVGS image/brand.

Sadly, someone (most likely) overpaid (as in really overpaid) for the silly Jaguar molds...so, unless this project gets funded, one of the "founders" won't be reimbursed for his entrepreneurial endeavors. That will sting a bit.

THAT SAID, I honestly believe that the Jaguar mold created more "word-of-mouth" organic discussions across the interwebz than anything a savvy marketing team could have contrived.

ALSO: I never thought RVGS would provide so much entertainment. I still want harddrives in Jaguar cartridge shells (another example of faux-vintage branding). I want a management team  that over-complicates EVERY CORE component of a console: medium, video output, input device, CPU/GPU...

 I want to over promise and under-deliver.

[mickcris]

Iirc they already covered the cost of the moulds. They sold clear console and cart shells over at Atari age earlier this year.