RGB, Component, Composite Comparison

MNKyDeth · 01/31/2016, 01:00 PM

First let me start off and say that all of the products tested are great pieces of modding equipment. They each do exactly what they are supposed to do. I don't rate one better or worse than the other. This is just so people can see what if any differences there are with the different setups. All of the video from any of the mod chips is excellent imo. Depending on the monitor PVM/BVM XRGB-mini etc you may need to adjust the default settings to get the look you want.

Everything shown is subjective to interpretation by the end user. I had purchased each piece from the respective person and mostly just really wanted to see what differences if any there was between the three chips and stripper cable.

The testing setups.
I used a PC Engine Duo-R for Composite video output. I then RGB modded this console with both amps one at a time and did all the sync over composite video testing.

I used two different Euro Scart cables. One from retrogamingcables.uk that is a sync over composite video. And a Euro Scart sync stripper cable from Mickcris that pulls 5v from the A/V port.

I used a PC Engine SuperGrafx + Super CD-Rom 2 system as well. The SuperGrafx system has the component V2 chip in it. Sync was used from Pin 22C on the expansion port (aka pin 44 on Hu6260A).
The Super CD-Rom 2 system was modded with Sync from pin 22C (pin44) as well. I cut the leg on the 8 pin Din for composite video and soldered a wire directly to the remaining part of the leg. No amp or caps or anything is on the sync wire. Just a plain old 26awg Kaynar wire was used.

Last but not least, I am using a Framemeister XRGB-mini. I set the values to the defaults for the color and all settings were kept the same through the entire testing, recording process for each machine and setup. All of the recording was done at 720p 60fps.

Unfortunately I have no idea how to embed vids from youtube on this forum so I will just put the links up and label them accordingly for you.

Also, just so it is mentioned, I think thesteve and Turbokon work together on the designs of the chips Turbokon sells. I could be wrong on this.

The first link is always AirZonk. The second link is always Xanadu 2

Composite Video (default reference)

Component Video (Turbokon Component V2 chip)

Turbokon RGB Amp (Sync over composite video)

Mickcris RGB Amp (Sync over composite video)

Turbokon RGB Amp (Sync over composite video with Sync Stripper cable)

Mickcris RGB Amp (Sync over composite video with Sync Stripper cable)

Turbokon RGB Amp (Sync on pin 44)

Mickcris RGB Amp (Sync on pin 44)

I wanted to set the vids in a split screen style but my lack of know how with video editing stopped me. So I just uploaded the raw footage. It's best to view any vids you want to compare side by side on screen or if you have multi-monitors like me put one on each screen and glance back and forth.

There are subtle differences and imo you will never really notice them unless you watch the vids side by side.

I am going to do the same with Xanadu 2 over the next couple of days so there is more than one game for reference. If there are any more commercial RGB amps out there. Ones that are sold to the general public let me know. I may pick one up and test it sometime.

esteban · 01/31/2016, 03:06 PM

I love the energy that went into this

Obviously, I haven't watched all the videos... yet?

CrackTiger · 01/31/2016, 04:01 PM

AirZonk Turbokon RGB AMP sync over composite video, AirZonk Turbokon RGB Amp Sync on pin44 and AirZonk Turbokon RGB Amp with Sync Stripper cable look pretty messed up. Super bright and washed out, like the contrast is screwed up. Are you sure that you installed and calibrated them correctly?

MNKyDeth · 02/01/2016, 01:03 PM

Quote from: guest on 01/31/2016, 04:01 PMAirZonk Turbokon RGB AMP sync over composite video, AirZonk Turbokon RGB Amp Sync on pin44 and AirZonk Turbokon RGB Amp with Sync Stripper cable look pretty messed up. Super bright and washed out, like the contrast is screwed up. Are you sure that you installed and calibrated them correctly?

There is no calibration to be done with the RGB Amp's from Turbokon or Mickcris.
This testing was done with default settings in the XRGB-mini. Turbokon's Amp is brighter than the one Mickcris sells.

I have four of the RGB Amp's sitting here from Turbokon and each puts out exactly the same video as the other. Honestly I never noticed my machines video being to bright or washed out until I had videos to compare side by side.

When I am playing games it still looks normal to me with Turbokons Amp. All the systems I have sold with Turbokon's Amps people have always stated how good the games look, so....

CrackTiger · 02/01/2016, 01:39 PM

Aren't there R G B pots to adjust?

I have a couple systems with turbokon component boards installed and one looks more like mickcris' RGB mod, only the R/G/B values need tweaking. I have another that is kinda bright like those videos I mentioned, but it also has a weak signal and doesn't work if I put it through my component splitter before the TV. So I assume that it needs a stronger amp or something.

mickcris · 02/01/2016, 03:17 PM

There are no pots on the RGB amps. The ones I sell have a 100 ohm resistor at the output as broken (who used to sell the same amp) noticed the output was too bright with 75 ohm resistors. I assume both amps would look identical if you would swap these resistors.

CrackTiger · 02/01/2016, 04:24 PM

Nice to know. mickcris, your mods look about as close to better emulation and are naturally color balanced as can likely be done with the hardware. Not having pots that can mess things up, considering that it already looks good for color balance, is probably for the best.

What you suggested makes sense, since those washed out clips look like the game is being played on an Express with the brightness too high.

CatPix · 02/01/2016, 08:25 PM

RGB is always brighter than composite, so maybe it's jsut that you're too used to composite. Plus the videos might be too bright on a youtube video but would appear better on a CRT.

CrackTiger · 02/01/2016, 10:22 PM

MNKyDeth, have you gone back to see how those bright video setups compare on a crt TV? I've had a few consoles with video mods that didn't look the same in captured video.

Quote from: CatPix on 02/01/2016, 08:25 PMRGB is always brighter than composite, so maybe it's jsut that you're too used to composite. Plus the videos might be too bright on a youtube video but would appear better on a CRT.

Composite is different for every console and often different models. Turbo/PCE composite is consistent among models and is kinda bright and the color is washed out a bit compared to RGB/emulation, but it is very sharp and clear for the time period. Just look at MNKyDeth's first video link and you see that stock composite looks more like those washed out RGB videos. In contrast, SNES composite has richer color and a more normal brightness, but is noticeably blurrier than PCE. The Genesis has bad composite quality all round, but is still inconsistent between models.

RGB tends to be richer and more vibrant and this leads to less of a bright picture (more of a "strong" image) overall for consoles with enough color and detail. I've got RGB cables and mods for probably 20 systems, a component transcoder for my crt TV, a framemeister and an RGB monitor. I'm used to RGB/component, as well as composite and misc. If you compare stills from the linked videos to Mednafen screenshots, you'll see which are more authentic.

But I did also think that it might just be the captured video and just came hear to suggest as much.

MNKyDeth · 02/02/2016, 10:21 AM

I have no way of testing anything on a CRT as I do not own a CRT of any kind.

My exact setup is this.

Random Game console -> XRGB-mini -> BenQ RL2460HT (this monitor has an HDMI passthrough) -> Live Gamer HD Capture card -> AmaRecTV (software to display game on computer screen) -> Fraps (for capturing raw video)

Now, if I compare the picture on my BenQ monitor to the capture card displayed output in AmaRecTV, the BenQ is actually slightly brighter. I attribute this to just default color settings within the monitor but I really have no idea.

The reason I have the above monitor is because it has the HDMI passthrough. I don't get any extra lag while playing games on my BenQ. Any extra lag is only on the captured video or what I am streaming on twitch. This way I see the game with only the XRGB-mini lag which is next to none and I am not wathing OBS or AmarecTV to play the games as there is far to much lag then.

CatPix · 02/02/2016, 11:33 AM

Quote from: guest on 02/01/2016, 10:22 PMRGB tends to be richer and more vibrant and this leads to less of a bright picture (more of a "strong" image) overall for consoles with enough color and detail.

But I did also think that it might just be the captured video and just came hear to suggest as much.

And I realized that I mean to say the opposite

Yep, that's what I have seen from the rare times I bothered using the composite of some consoles. I can't tell anything about the Sega systems : French SMS have no composite out, the Megadrive I doesn't have composite out either, only RGB.
I tried on the SNES once, and it was so blurry I stopped that immediately.
But yeah, I mixed up, RGB is always darker; what I mean it that the recording might have been optimized for composite, so the luminosity level was not properly set up for RGB recording.