Donald Trump Thread aka End of Days

[BlueBMW]

Health Care Reform... AKA tax cut for the rich?

[Emerald Rocker]

The public shellacking that the GOP healthcare bill is receiving (even from GOP members) is much better than the secrecy under which ACA was voted in.  There's no way this is going to pass as-is, and that's good, because we'll get to see the process in real time.

I wish this happened more often.

[Emerald Rocker]

I remember vividly watching as the gop flailed, lied, and fearmongered against the best parts of the original ACA (and everything under Obama, really), and Obama letting those parts be omitted for the sake of bipartisanship.

What were the best parts of ACA, the ones that Obama let be omitted?

In regards to secrecy:
ACA was locked in a room, and members of Congress were given a short time (a couple hours, if I recall) to look at the 2000-page bill in that room.  No one who voted on it had read the whole thing.  Obscure aspects of the bill were being discovered daily by HHS and the public after its passage in 2010.

By comparison, the 130-page GOP bill is available for the public to read, and it hasn't even been officially introduced in the House yet.  The process started in secrecy (see: Rand Paul's quest to track it down), but then something happened.  I don't know why the process suddenly became transparent, but it did.

This bill will never pass as-is, so it would be a waste of energy for me to care what you think about it right now.  But I'm glad it's openly available for you to read and decide that you hate it.

Your distracting claim that Trump plans to starve senior citizens is nonsense.  If you're talking about Meals on Wheels, then you're misinformed.  That also has nothing to do with anything that I posted.

[ToyMachine78]

I remember vividly watching as the gop flailed, lied, and fearmongered against the best parts of the original ACA (and everything under Obama, really), and Obama letting those parts be omitted for the sake of bipartisanship.

What were the best parts of ACA, the ones that Obama let be omitted?

In regards to secrecy:
ACA was locked in a room, and members of Congress were given a short time (a couple hours, if I recall) to look at the 2000-page bill in that room.  No one who voted on it had read the whole thing.  Obscure aspects of the bill were being discovered daily by HHS and the public after its passage in 2010.

By comparison, the 130-page GOP bill is available for the public to read, and it hasn't even been officially introduced in the House yet.  The process started in secrecy (see: Rand Paul's quest to track it down), but then something happened.  I don't know why the process suddenly became transparent, but it did.

This bill will never pass as-is, so it would be a waste of energy for me to care what you think about it right now.  But I'm glad it's openly available for you to read and decide that you hate it.

Your distracting claim that Trump plans to starve senior citizens is nonsense.  If you're talking about Meals on Wheels, then you're misinformed.  That also has nothing to do with anything that I posted.

Secrecy: "You have to pass the bill to find out what's in it" What a dumb Fuck.

Just when I thought she had set the bar for dumb statements, suddenly Bush is back in office, and her cohort thinks Putin invaded north korea

[OldRover]

The ACA wasn't even Obama's bill. The GOP called it Obamacare as an insult... which is amusing considering most of the bill was their work. Also, Trump isn't exactly championing this new bill... he's had damn near nothing to do with it. This is largely Ryan's work.

[Emerald Rocker]

Agree with Old Rover that neither bill represents what the respective presidents wanted.  Obama's mistake was that he repeated false statements about the bill, and of course he gets some responsibility since he signed it, but ACA wasn't his brainchild.  Obama wanted universal healthcare administered by the government, but not even his own party would support that (at the time).

And Trump is talking nice in public, but reading between the lines, it's pretty obvious he thinks the new bill needs work.  Part of me suspects that he's "supporting" Ryan with the expectation that Ryan will fall flat on his face.

[NecroPhile]

I love all the Trump leg humpers already making excuses for Trumpcare.

"Trump had nothing to do with it; it's all Ryan's doing!  Trump secretly wants it to fail, then he'll bring out his own glorious plan!!!"

[jlued686]

What is indisputable is that Trump promised, and I quote, "Everyone will be covered."

[Emerald Rocker]

I love all the Trump leg humpers already making excuses for Trumpcare.

Not making excuses -- it becomes Trumpcare if he signs it.  Until then, it's a proposal (that Ryan created).  I'm predicting that it won't make it to Trump's desk, not in its current form.  Doesn't it seem strange to say it's a "good start" and call it a "negotiation" if he thinks it's ready to pass and sign?  Also, he keeps reminding "Republicans" not to mess this up.  If he believed in it, wouldn't he be claiming credit?  Obviously I could be misreading this.  We'll see.

primarily the public option / single payer

Talking heads debated the public option, but in the context of ACA, there was never a fight over the public option because no one proposed it in a legislative form.
Also, there wasn't a filibuster.  You're probably thinking of Ted Cruz's 2013 filibuster over a spending bill.  He talked about ACA a lot during that one.

[ToyMachine78]

Toymachine: what are you talking about? I'm lost.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2017/02/08/2-dingbats-separated-birth-following-waters-epic-gaffe-pelosi-thinks-bush-president-445780

[jlued686]

Honest question: is that a site you visit regularly?

[BlueBMW]

What I find amazing is for how much bitching the GOP did over Obamacare for the last seven years, how did they come up with such an obviously shit plan?  Seven years and all they have is a taxcut plan with age based, not income based tax credits that barely cover nothing?

What happened to Trumps plan?  "I've got a plan, a really good plan!  Everyone will be covered!  Its going to be great just wait!  Its almost done!"  and then we get this shit.  Well done Trump voters.  Well done indeed.  Its ok though, his presidency is really going to hurt the poor white working class that voted for him.

Honestly, I really dont see how anyone can still defend the guy.  Its obvious he's a fraud.

[BigusSchmuck]

It's pretty bad when members of his own party question his budget cuts:

[esteban]

My favorite quote from Trump:

"I call it a sea of love..."

This post designed for bipartisan appeal.

[ToyMachine78]

Honest question: is that a site you visit regularly?

First time I've ever seen it. It was the first article I found that summed up the Pelosi and Waters gaffes in one article.

Didn't feel like posting a bunch of links. The domain name seemed odd, but since the article was accurate, didn't give it much thought.

[Emerald Rocker]

What I find amazing is for how much bitching the GOP did over Obamacare for the last seven years, how did they come up with such an obviously shit plan?

The GOP never planned to win.  They expected/wanted to be the minority party, because it's easy to complain without ever being put in the position to fix anything.  Job security.  I'm pretty sure they don't have a realistic tax reform plan either.  The CBO actually determined that *simply repealing Obamacare and replacing it with nothing* would be better than passing this new bill.  (CBO should be taken with a rock of salt since they were so wrong about ACA numbers, but still.)

As for Trump, it's easy for me to feel comfortable defending him.  Generally speaking, I think he's already doing important things.  Time will be the judge of that.  Regarding healthcare specifically, he's giving the guy who spent 7 years claiming he had a plan a chance to show off his plan.  That's the right thing to do.  If Trump actually signs this sham into law then I'll be disappointed.  But that won't happen.

[Artabasdos]

Tbh mate, I'm bored stiff of the hysteria over Trump. When you look into a lot of the horror stories, they turn out to be bullshit. Even worse, Obama did a whole bunch of nasty crap, yet he's treated well for some reason.

[jlued686]

Generally speaking, I think he's already doing important things.

Such as...?

[Emerald Rocker]

Anyone who genuinely wants to know what those things are, can PM me.  I'm not interested in providing forum fodder for another 30-person battle royale when we haven't settled even a single score yet ;)

[NecroPhile]

LOL, Trump apologists.

[jlued686]

He'll tell us as soon as the audit's done.

/ZING!

[Emerald Rocker]

LOL, amateur trolls.

[jlued686]

Would you say we're...Fake Trolls? Eh? Eh?

/DOUBLE ZING!

[Emerald Rocker]

KingDrool's "jokes" are pathetic (lame) -- thinks he's clever but only his old Jurassic-era face is funny.  Too bad!

[Artabasdos]

KingDrool's "jokes" are pathetic (lame) -- thinks he's clever but only his old Jurassic-era face is funny.  Too bad!

He's only cranky because his tiny T-Rex arms are so short he can't jerk off. Poor guy...

[JoshTurboTrollX]

Soon, Trump will have the largest hands in all of Mars.  Sad,

http://www.space.com/36154-president-trump-signs-nasa-authorization-bill.html

[Gredler]

Danm, that's easily the coolest thing he's done. Bring on the Vulcans, let's do this!

[jlued686]

Come on, I'm on FIRE with those sick burns!

[ToyMachine78]

/9dfae041c.jpg

[Artabasdos]

The proper way to end a tweet-length burn is with "sad!". For instance:

Failing Emerald Rocker and FAKE Artabados have tiny hands compared to me. Sad!

I'm not fake... I really was a Byzantine general!

[ToyMachine78]

Fuck yeah Johnny!!

[Gypsy]

Just feels like a good time to bump this thread.........

[BigusSchmuck]

Just feels like a good time to bump this thread.........

Considering he just bombed one of Syria's airbases.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/syria-decries-aggression-us-launches-041508155.html
Yep, pissed off Russia. Awesome.

[NecroPhile]

So much for the USA keeping its nose out of the Middle East.  Trump was okay with the 100+ prior chemical attacks and hundreds of thousands killed so far in their civil war, but the latest was just too much?

On the plus side, Trump notified Russia well in advance of the attack, so I'm sure Russia and Syria had plenty of time to move everything of value.  We just spent a hundred million dollars bombing an abandoned base, but nobody's talking about Russian election influence.  Totally worth it!

[jlued686]

On the plus side, Trump notified Russia well in advance of the attack, so I'm sure Russia and Syria had plenty of time to move everything of value.

This is true and has been reported. It was an empty, bullshit move.

[Emerald Rocker]

The strike against Syria was wrong, but notifying Russia in advance was right.  They aren't our enemy, and we had an agreement to tell them about things like this.  Now I hope we can go back to ignoring the middle east.

[OldRover]

but nobody's talking about Russian election influence.

Nobody? People, media included, wouldn't shut the fuck up about it... and some still won't. No hard evidence has ever surfaced, and at this point, it doesn't matter anyway. Furthermore, why is everyone so hung up on Russia? WTF? Get yer heads out of the 1980s, Reagan isn't President anymore (or even alive anymore), the Cold War is over, the Russkies aren't coming. So Putin's a major dick... big deal. The USA still supports Israel (and millions back this up) despite it being a puppet state of terrorists... BUT WAT ABOUT RUSSIA!!! This is "wat about teh emailz!" all over again, only with some classic Reaganesque fearmongering bullshit thrown in for good measure.

People are only "concerned" about Russia because the media is telling them to be concerned about Russia. Don't be so easily led. Smoke and mirrors, friends... smoke and mirrors. There are way bigger fish to fry right now.

[NecroPhile]

The strike against Syria was wrong, but notifying Russia in advance was right.

Telling Russia to avoid WWIII is a good thing, but that doesn't change the fact that it also gave Syria advanced warning, making the attack ultimately pointless.  Even if Russia had decided to keep their ally in the dark, we also gave our middle east 'partners' advance notice for some silly reason, and you know those corrupt shitholes can't keep a secret.

They aren't our enemy, and we had an agreement to tell them about things like this.

If they're not our enemy then neither is Syria; Russia is not a passive participant in their civil war.  It's like saying we could've entered WWII to only fight Germany but stayed buddies with Italy and Japan.

Now I hope we can go back to ignoring the middle east.

The missiles did very little to stop their chemical weapons capabilities, so it's only a matter of time before they use 'em again against civilians (the latest was one of 100+ such attacks).  Trump's ego won't let him stand by next time.

Nobody? People, media included, wouldn't shut the fuck up about it... and some still won't.

That was hyperbole.  The issue obviously didn't disappear entirely, but neither was it the leading headline.

No hard evidence has ever surfaced, and at this point, it doesn't matter anyway.

I hope you mean no hard evidence of Trump's collusion, as there's no question that Russia fucked with us.  I agree that there's not much we can do about it, but the point is more about teaching dipshit Trump that they most certainly are not our friends.

[geise]

Rove I think the more important issue is "When do you normally get in chat?  Is it mostly on DoxPhile or sunteam's chat?  what time typically do you get on?  I'd like to catch up."

[ToyMachine78]

The strike against Syria was wrong, but notifying Russia in advance was right.

Telling Russia to avoid WWIII is a good thing, but that doesn't change the fact that it also gave Syria advanced warning, making the attack ultimately pointless.  Even if Russia had decided to keep their ally in the dark, we also gave our middle east 'partners' advance notice for some silly reason, and you know those corrupt shitholes can't keep a secret.

They aren't our enemy, and we had an agreement to tell them about things like this.

If they're not our enemy then neither is Syria; Russia is not a passive participant in their civil war.  It's like saying we could've entered WWII to only fight Germany but stayed buddies with Italy and Japan.

Now I hope we can go back to ignoring the middle east.

The missiles did very little to stop their chemical weapons capabilities, so it's only a matter of time before they use 'em again against civilians (the latest was one of 100+ such attacks).  Trump's ego won't let him stand by next time.

Nobody? People, media included, wouldn't shut the fuck up about it... and some still won't.

That was hyperbole.  The issue obviously didn't disappear entirely, but neither was it the leading headline.

No hard evidence has ever surfaced, and at this point, it doesn't matter anyway.

I hope you mean no hard evidence of Trump's collusion, as there's no question that Russia fucked with us.  I agree that there's not much we can do about it, but the point is more about teaching dipshit Trump that they most certainly are not our friends.

There is no evidence that Russia did shit. Just word of mouth. Oh... The intelligence committee has the evidence.... Really?

Even if the committee has the intelligence, can they prove it was a state associated hack, and not just a hacker(s) that happen to live in Russia?

And should we believe them anyway when the vault 7 CIA leak shows that they have methods of spoofing hacks to make them appear to be the work of other governments?

Maybe the emails and DNC wouldn't have been such easy targets had they followed security guidelines, and not kept private servers, shared passwords, and accessed systems on personal non-hardened devices. No one wants to discuss accountability for the enabling parties.

In regards to the Syria attack. I think it's bullshit. We do not need to be in the regime change business, and if Assad is toppled, it will be much much worse for the Syrian people. Ask Iraq and Lybia how it's working out. Those people are absolutely nuts. There's a reason it takes dictators and despots to keep the peace over there.

[NecroPhile]

There is no evidence that Russia did shit. Just word of mouth. Oh... The intelligence committee has the evidence.... Really?

Even if the committee has the intelligence, can they prove it was a state associated hack, and not just a hacker(s) that happen to live in Russia?

And should we believe them anyway when the vault 7 CIA leak shows that they have methods of spoofing hacks to make them appear to be the work of other governments?

When every US intelligence agency, dozens of private cyber security companies, and even Trump himself has laid the blame at Russia's feet, only a moron would conclude that there's no evidence of anything.

But it's all a conspiracy!  Don your tinfoil hats!

Maybe the emails and DNC wouldn't have been such easy targets had they followed security guidelines, and not kept private servers, shared passwords, and accessed systems on personal non-hardened devices. No one wants to discuss accountability for the enabling parties.

Translation: she shouldn't have been wearing such a short skirt and tight top if she didn't want to get raped.

In regards to the Syria attack. I think it's bullshit. We do not need to be in the regime change business, and if Assad is toppled, it will be much much worse for the Syrian people. Ask Iraq and Lybia how it's working out. Those people are absolutely nuts. There's a reason it takes dictators and despots to keep the peace over there.

Agreed.  It's a shame that Trump and the rest of the war hawk cocksuckers didn't learn that lesson from Iraq and Afghanistan.

[ToyMachine78]

Maybe the emails and DNC wouldn't have been such easy targets had they followed security guidelines, and not kept private servers, shared passwords, and accessed systems on personal non-hardened devices. No one wants to discuss accountability for the enabling parties.

Translation: she shouldn't have been wearing such a short skirt and tight top if she didn't want to get raped.

That's a pretty stupid comparison. Rape victims aren't committing felonies by dressing a certain way.

You are in essence taking up for the drug dealer who calls the police to report he was robbed of his drugs.

[NecroPhile]

That's a pretty stupid comparison. Rape victims aren't committing felonies by dressing a certain way.

Only Clinton's use of a private server was illegal; even then it was only using it for classified communications and failing to turn over all messages for FRA compliance that was illegal, as simply using a private server was not prohibited.  None of that has a anything to do with Podesta's gmail or the DNC servers, though, which you foolishly lump together as "felonious activity".

You are in essence taking up for the drug dealer who calls the police to report he was robbed of his drugs.

Two wrongs make a right?

Lemme guess: you wear a helmet.

[ToyMachine78]

That's a pretty stupid comparison. Rape victims aren't committing felonies by dressing a certain way.

Only Clinton's use of a private server was illegal; even then it was only using it for classified communications and failing to turn over all messages for FRA compliance that was illegal, as simply using a private server was not prohibited.  None of that has a anything to do with Podesta's gmail or the DNC servers, though, which you foolishly lump together as "felonious activity".

You are in essence taking up for the drug dealer who calls the police to report he was robbed of his drugs.

Two wrongs make a right?

Lemme guess: you wear a helmet.

Well I think the Clinton server is at the heart of the issue. If Podesta was slinging his account credentials around as indicated by the dumps, they more than likely ended up on the Clinton server. Also, don't forget the Weiner laptop... Yeah let's keep classified info on a personal laptop I'm using to visit every porn site on the web lol.

If you are involved in shady practices, don't be surprised if it perks the interests of shady characters.

And no, I don't wear a helmet, or uniform, if that's what you meant. I'm way too antisocial for that job.

[NecroPhile]

And no, I don't wear a helmet, or uniform, if that's what you meant. I'm way too antisocial for that job.

You couldn't have answered the question any more succinctly. 

[Emerald Rocker]

It's like saying we could've entered WWII to only fight Germany but stayed buddies with Italy and Japan.

Bad analogy.  While Germany and the Soviet Union were at war, Japan and the Soviet Union remained diplomatic.  They only went to war after Germany was defeated.  So in the alternate reality where Japan didn't attack us first, there's historical precedent that we could have fought Germany without fighting Japan.

That being said -- we haven't entered a war, and the relationship between Russia and Syria is not the same as the relationship between WWII Germany and Japan.  Russia themselves have said their support of Assad is not unconditional -- and they publically agree with the USA that Assad must not use chemical weapons.  (The disagreement is about whether or not he used them.)

I still disagree with the strike, and I still think it was good to notify Russia in advance.  But since both Trump and Secretary of Defense Mattis said the strike was about responding to the chemical attack and not about regime change, I won't worry about it.

[NightWolve]

I still disagree with the strike, and I still think it was good to notify Russia in advance.  But since both Trump and Secretary of Defense Mattis said the strike was about responding to the chemical attack and not about regime change, I won't worry about it.

These regime-change interventionists destroyed the republican party for years (how we managed to gain back majorities is still a miracle to me!), gave democrats the PR to win full power in Congress, even 60 filibuster proof seats in the Senate for a few months (which is when they jammed AFA/Obamacare down), and let something like Barack Obama walk right into the WhiteHouse, no sweat... If Trumpster lets those clowns gain influence again and becomes Bush Part II, we'll see another surge of democrat sweeps...

I'm not falling for the World Police mindset again when it comes to regime-change. I saw the result of Iraq and Afghanistan, and I thought we learned our lesson, but then the next guy thought to aid regime-change rebels inside Libya, Eqypt and Syria, and that turned into another kind of disaster given the refugee wave it sent up to Europe! HELLO, YOU'RE MAKING THAT HELLHOLE WORSE! Take a break from the Middle East!!

EDIT: Well, here's Assad's "side" of the story, choose whoever you want to believe:

[NecroPhile]

Bad analogy.  While Germany and the Soviet Union were at war, Japan and the Soviet Union remained diplomatic.  They only went to war after Germany was defeated.  So in the alternate reality where Japan didn't attack us first, there's historical precedent that we could have fought Germany without fighting Japan.

If you have to make up bullshit alternate realities to make your point, you don't have one.

That being said -- we haven't entered a war, and the relationship between Russia and Syria is not the same as the relationship between WWII Germany and Japan.  Russia themselves have said their support of Assad is not unconditional -- and they publically agree with the USA that Assad must not use chemical weapons.  (The disagreement is about whether or not he used them.)

Like I said, if Syria is our enemy (no matter how limited the scope) then Russia is as well.  There's no separating them.  Russia is a full ally of Syria and complicit in every action they take, and they'll continue to deny Assad's use of chemical weapons and use their veto power to stop the UN from doing a damn thing about it.

[Emerald Rocker]

If you have to make up bullshit alternate realities to make your point, you don't have one.

Wow, you really are an idiot.  Your analogy is the thing that's based on a "bullshit alternate reality".

Here's your analogy....

It's like saying we could've entered WWII to only fight Germany but stayed buddies with Italy and Japan.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you were speaking hypothetically.  But since apparently you were NOT speaking of alternate realities, then let's speak reality.

The USA did not declare war on Japan as a side effect of entering "to fight Germany".  We declared war on Japan because they bombed Pearl Harbor.  I can't believe you are so ignorant that you are making bullshit WWII analogies without even knowing that.

And as shown by actual real history, countries being at war with Germany did not necessarily mean they were at war with Japan.  Two separate countries are two separate countries.  Your understanding of international relations is like a five-year-old kid.  If that.

I still can't get over how your analogy could be so fucking stupid.  You should be embarrassed.

[NecroPhile]

Aww, little Trumpy snowflake can't handle a discussion and has to call names and go off on a tangent because he knows he has no intelligent response regarding Syria and Russia. 

I'm not talking about what other countries did (only an idiot would argue that the US and the Soviets were working under equal circumstances with equal options on how/when to enter the war), what might have happened in another dimension, or what the flying spaghetti monster wanted everyone to do.  Because of the embargoes we placed against Japan prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor, war with them was inevitable (even their own military said so); and because of the need to use Italy as an invasion point, it was impossible to stay friendly with them.  Those aren't hypotheticals, they're history.  Try again, moron.