TG-16 arcade joystick: Durability? Like it? Use it?

[ifkz]

Sorry for the catch-all title.  I am sure you all know the story.  In 1987, a crack NEC console was released to the world, loved for great games.   This console promptly hit the US market in 1989.  Today, most of us still play our stuff, and if you can own it, do you reach for it...the Arcade-style Joystick?

Do the rapid fire switches hold up, or are they often lost?  Same for the joystick ball, is it usually intact?  Is it as nice as it looks, or is that all it is:  just looks and a shelf-queen?  Do you own it for R-Type, or does R-Type own it?

No one else can help; if I can find it, maybe I can buy it:  the Arcade-style Joystick.  (TurboStick=yes)

[esteban]

I have never been a big fan of this item. It isn't weighted to my liking and therefore it feels imprecise and sloppy. For comparison, I thought the NES Advantage was decent (properly weighted).

Clearly, I spend 99.99% of my time using pads for old consoles.

Therefore, other folks can probably give you better info concerning the viability of the TG-16 joystick.

[CrackTiger]

Are you talking about the TurboStick?

[ToyMachine78]

I really don't like the turbo stick, all the buttons and switches have held up and work fine. It is really light which makes it feel cheap, as Este mentioned. The deal breaker for me though is that the joystick movement feels mushy. There is no snap or crispness, sorry can't think of a better way to explain it, and that drives me nuts.

So it just sits in a drawer and looks bad ass.

[wilykat]

It's OK.  I have not found any Turbostick in the wild that were missing part or broken, they seems quite resilient but not indestructible.  The fire speed slider is prone to breaking off because of thin and cheap plastic used to hold to metal post, and on the smaller Turbopad the plug tended to break and lost the silver grounding ring or even the whole pins.

[SignOfZeta]

Like virtually every licensed stick made before the Sega Saturn/Sony PlayStation it's just a high margin POS.

[ToyMachine78]

Like virtually every licensed stick made before the Sega Saturn/Sony PlayStation it's just a high margin POS.

I dunno. I think the nes advantage felt pretty nice, and the sega stick wasn't too bad either.

[GohanX]

I got a broken Turbostick in a raffle a while back. I repaired it, but it's still pretty awful. I'd much rather use any of the standard pads than that POS. I've been meaning to raffle or otherwise give the thing away but have been lazy.

[Gredler]

Like virtually every licensed stick made before the Sega Saturn/Sony PlayStation it's just a high margin POS.

I dunno. I think the nes advantage felt pretty nice, and the sega stick wasn't too bad either.

Both of the sega and Nintendo brand sticks, and the turbo sticks, are nothing more then a controller enlarged with a stick that pressed a membrane into a PCB giving them all the same mushy feeling unlike almost every arcade machine out there.

Quality sticks used microswitchs, meaning when a direction is pressed on the stick or a button is pressed on the face panel a switch is flipped from of to on, giving a tactile feedback and a smoothness of motion not found in the membrane contact to PCB style sticks.


I became jaded once I had a microswitch stick, the feel is night and day different.

I can't speak to the build quality, I assume it's a tank like any other only PCB and membrane pad out there, but the feel and functionality is beat down by the competition from hori and micomsoft to name a couple alternatives.

I'd sooner make a stick from a pce controller PCB than buy a turbo stick, tbh

[ToyMachine78]

Like virtually every licensed stick made before the Sega Saturn/Sony PlayStation it's just a high margin POS.

I dunno. I think the nes advantage felt pretty nice, and the sega stick wasn't too bad either.

Both of the sega and Nintendo brand sticks, and the turbo sticks, are nothing more then a controller enlarged with a stick that pressed a membrane into a PCB giving them all the same mushy feeling unlike almost every arcade machine out there.

Quality sticks used microswitchs, meaning when a direction is pressed on the stick or a button is pressed on the face panel a switch is flipped from of to on, giving a tactile feedback and a smoothness of motion not found in the membrane contact to PCB style sticks.


I became jaded once I had a microswitch stick, the feel is night and day different.

I can't speak to the build quality, I assume it's a tank like any other only PCB and membrane pad out there, but the feel and functionality is beat down by the competition from hori and micomsoft to name a couple alternatives.

I'd sooner make a stick from a pce controller PCB than buy a turbo stick, tbh

I agree with you, but the advantage and sega stick feel much better than the turbo stick. The advantage being the best of the three.

[SignOfZeta]

I've used the Advantage. My friend got one back in the day. I liked the buttons, didn't really see the point of the stick. I was mainly an arcade gamer in the 80s so I wasn't fooled. He loved the thing (he also loved the NES Max) but I gladly played player 2 side with the OEM pad.

[exodus]

I've got three of these, and none of them are any good, in case you were thinking it was just people's one-off experiences. The stick feels mushy to use, the buttons are *okay,* the weird sliders do often fall off but not through active use, and also don't seeeem to be analog as they indicate.

to conclude, they're lame, I wouldn't get one unless you really like how they look or something. I certainly don't like playing games with them.

(and if you're wondering why I have three, I got two when I was younger in a bundle with a system, than another a few months back at a flea market, also bundled with a system)

[CrackTiger]

I'm not a fan of joysticks. I like classic arcade controls in classic arcades, but feel that pads control much better.

Bitd, I never like the advantage, because it was like dealing with a little table and the joystick is so tiny.

I bought that first Genesus arcade stick when it came out and it felt and worked great, but it made me realize how much I prefer pads.

I bought a TurboStick early on for slo-mo and it's actually a cool controller. Maybe it requires large hands, but I used it like a pad and it controlled as good as any stick, but the slow motion was great for getting used to stuff like some of the bosses in Sidearms. It has what seems like analog turbo meters, instead of only two speeds. So it's the best controller for turbo fire as well. It's light weight is perfect for holding it the way I do.

[NecroPhile]

The acemore freedom stick thingy has microswitches, but it's a turd.  I'd rather use a TurboStick, but I'd much rather use a regular pad over either.

[ToyMachine78]

I've used the Advantage. My friend got one back in the day. I liked the buttons, didn't really see the point of the stick. I was mainly an arcade gamer in the 80s so I wasn't fooled. He loved the thing (he also loved the NES Max) but I gladly played player 2 side with the OEM pad.

As a kid I freakin loved the Max. I loved the d-pad non-pad thingy. Loved the turbo buttons too. Now I can't play with the thing for shit. The d-pad screws me up

[SignOfZeta]

I think they worked a little better when they were new.

...a little better.

[guyjin]

To me the TurboStick has 2 issues:
1) it's too light. it's way too easy to tip the thing over during intense bomberman sessions or such like.
2) it's too big. I know they were trying to be bigger than the NES Advantage, but it doesn't make sense when it weighs that little. it might have been more acceptable if it were the same weight, but smaller (like the Atari joysticks.)

by the time it came around, though, I think most Americans preferred gamepads anyway. Europeans, though...

[jenkinsmitchell]

I haven't come across any sticks that are even decent for any of the 8 or 16 bit games. I recently finally broke down and used a 3rd party SNES controller to mod an American style arcade stick with IL buttons and stick. Now Turtles in Time feels the way it was supposed to.

Maybe in the future I'll get a 6 button PCE controller and do the same for my Duo.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[wilykat]

If you're picking up regular 6 button controller without modding anything, a Duo-RX is kinda terrible for long play. D-pad gets uncomfortable and the whole RX controller thing is best left to collector who wants to blow $80 to complete his/her RX set or to have many official controller variations.

[ifkz]

...it's too big. I know they were trying to be bigger than the NES Advantage...

Wow, does anyone want to offer up a comparison picture along with the NES Advantage?

I had to re-read this, I never realized the stick is even larger; I kept my NES Advantage on top of the NES console since it was so large.  Wow!  After reading the threads, I sort of want one for the size of it.

I second, and third, and fourth the superiority of micro-switch based joysticks.  The only problem with older ones (from the Saturn and Dreamcast, for example) is that the microswitches used were non standard compared to what I have found with every arcade machine I've worked on.

I wonder if anyone has ever attempted to transplant an arcade joystick in place of the stock TurboStick joystick.  They made some smaller joysticks in the arcade world; I am sure it would look awful, but it may be possible depending on the height of the base.  If I ever get a junker, I'll try it.  Heck, Saturn ASCII microswitch joysticks are cheap, one of those might even work.  Humm...

[Gredler]

I haven't come across any sticks that are even decent for any of the 8 or 16 bit games. I recently finally broke down and used a 3rd party SNES controller to mod an American style arcade stick with IL buttons and stick. Now Turtles in Time feels the way it was supposed to.

Maybe in the future I'll get a 6 button PCE controller and do the same for my Duo.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I hear the Micomsoft, and I know the Hori Fight sticks, used microswitch sticks and buttons, and work great.

[jenkinsmitchell]

I haven't come across any sticks that are even decent for any of the 8 or 16 bit games. I recently finally broke down and used a 3rd party SNES controller to mod an American style arcade stick with IL buttons and stick. Now Turtles in Time feels the way it was supposed to.

Maybe in the future I'll get a 6 button PCE controller and do the same for my Duo.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I hear the Micromsoft and I know the Hori Fight sticks use microswitch sticks and buttons, and work great.

I didn't know Hori made sticks for that era. I haven't run across any Microsoft sticks worth noting except the flight sim sticks.

It's worth mentioning that not all micro switches and buttons are created equally. There are some Hori sticks that use arcade quality parts, and some that use Hori brand parts. Only the most casual players will play their games little enough to not wear out the Hori parts quickly.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[neopolss]

I remember owning a six button snes joystick bitd, it was built with all happ parts, nice size black metal case.  I would love to have a good quality arcade style stick for tg16 shmups.  I can tolerare a pad, but for shmups I feel more accurate with a joystick.

[Gredler]

I haven't come across any sticks that are even decent for any of the 8 or 16 bit games. I recently finally broke down and used a 3rd party SNES controller to mod an American style arcade stick with IL buttons and stick. Now Turtles in Time feels the way it was supposed to.

Maybe in the future I'll get a 6 button PCE controller and do the same for my Duo.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I hear the Micromsoft and I know the Hori Fight sticks use microswitch sticks and buttons, and work great.

I didn't know Hori made sticks for that era. I haven't run across any Microsoft sticks worth noting except the flight sim sticks.

It's worth mentioning that not all micro switches and buttons are created equally. There are some Hori sticks that use arcade quality parts, and some that use Hori brand parts. Only the most casual players will play their games little enough to not wear out the Hori parts quickly.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

The pce hori sticks have good quality parts, sanwa I believe, but is easily modifiable to add sanwa and seimitsu parts. Mine was rusted and beatup when I received it so I modded it out and it works great with a seimitsu ls 32 stick, and I left the buttons as is because I liked them so much.

I didn't say Microsoft, I said micomsoft they made elite sticks bitd.http://m.ebay.com/itm/Micomsoft-XE-1-PRO-FC-Joystick-Controller-Nintendo-Famicom-/152050921668?_trkparms=aid%253D222007%2526algo%253DSIC.MBE%2526ao%253D1%2526asc%253D20150519202348%2526meid%253D8df1dd375cb144aeb8b103afbd86d90f%2526pid%253D100408%2526rk%253D2%2526rkt%253D2%2526sd%253D231497828322&_trksid=p2056116.c100408.m2460

[jenkinsmitchell]

Cool. I didn't realize they made those so long ago. I used to play a lot of fighting games, so the sticks I own got a lot of wear and tear.

I assumed you meant Microsoft since Google wasn't showing me anything for micromsoft. I've never heard of them, but it's difficult to give them a fair shake after only seeing that one stick.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[csgx1]

I picked up a Innovation Multi-system arcade stick somewhat recently.  I was never in the market for a joystick but I picked it up because it was cheap and surprisingly it's compatible with the Turbo Duo/PC Engine. 

Probably not talked about much since it's kind of hard to find and basically a generic brand.  I'll give my opinion on the Innovation stick if anyone cares to know.   

I usually prefer controllers, so I don't have a lot of experience with various console joysticks.  I've never used the TurboStick or NES Advantage so I don't know how those compare.  I did grow up playing SFII and Neo Geo fighting games in the arcades.

The Innovation stick seems good, but probably far from the best.  It does use micro switches. Best feature is that it works with 4 consoles: PC Engine, SNES, Genesis, and Neogeo. Also has turbo and slow motion functions.  Negatives: the overall weight is light(all plastic case) and the overall size seems a bit small.  Buttons feel a little flimsy/loose and the button spacing is kind of wide. 

Plays well with the SFII ports and fighting games that I've tried on the PC Engine, SNES, and Genesis.  Fighting moves and combos are easy to pull off.  I haven't tried too many other types of games but for the most part the stick controls well. 

With shooters, action or other type of games I'll still grab a controller instead because that's what I'm used to. For me, a joystick is not an essential piece of hardware, but having the Innovation stick is great for casual use with my fighting games that it works with.

[Keith Courage]

I use a turbo stick for most of my gaming needs now. Mainly because it keeps my thumbs from being sore later unlike a regular control pad does. This is probably due to all the work I do on a daily basis requiring my hands or possibly too much phone use.

I'd rather use a regular control pad but can't anymore.

This being said I don't think the joystick is all that bad. Mine still has the turbo fire controls on it and it works great. I have had a few in the past where the turbo stems pulled out but it really wasn't that big a  deal since I could still use a small flat head screw driver to adjust them if I ever wanted to. I usually just left them all the way up all the time anyways.

[DragonmasterDan]

I picked up a Innovation Multi-system arcade stick somewhat recently.  I was never in the market for a joystick but I picked it up because it was cheap and surprisingly it's compatible with the Turbo Duo/PC Engine. 

Probably not talked about much since it's kind of hard to find and basically a generic brand.  I'll give my opinion on the Innovation stick if anyone cares to know.   

I usually prefer controllers, so I don't have a lot of experience with various console joysticks.  I've never used the TurboStick or NES Advantage so I don't know how those compare.  I did grow up playing SFII and Neo Geo fighting games in the arcades.

The Innovation stick seems good, but probably far from the best.  It does use micro switches. Best feature is that it works with 4 consoles: PC Engine, SNES, Genesis, and Neogeo. Also has turbo and slow motion functions.  Negatives: the overall weight is light(all plastic case) and the overall size seems a bit small.  Buttons feel a little flimsy/loose and the button spacing is kind of wide. 

Plays well with the SFII ports and fighting games that I've tried on the PC Engine, SNES, and Genesis.  Fighting moves and combos are easy to pull off.  I haven't tried too many other types of games but for the most part the stick controls well. 

With shooters, action or other type of games I'll still grab a controller instead because that's what I'm used to. For me, a joystick is not an essential piece of hardware, but having the Innovation stick is great for casual use with my fighting games that it works with.

I bought one of these off of Amazon a few years ago. Several buttons were totally dead. I wound up returning it at a loss for shipping.

[GoldenWheels]

Any opinions on the best PC Engine stick? I actually prefer pads but after playing some of the shooter my damn left thumb feels like it's going to fall off.

I really don't need a 6 button one because I am super unlikely to ever play SFII with it.

But I've seen the 6 button Hori, the Ascii stick with green buttons, the Japanese Turbo Stick version...I think that's it. It seems I'm going to have to drop some change no matter what I do--I don't really want to go nuts but man I want a stick.

[StarDust4Ever]

...it's too big. I know they were trying to be bigger than the NES Advantage...

Wow, does anyone want to offer up a comparison picture along with the NES Advantage?

I had to re-read this, I never realized the stick is even larger; I kept my NES Advantage on top of the NES console since it was so large.  Wow!  After reading the threads, I sort of want one for the size of it.

You guys are doing it wrong if you think the NES Advantage is too big. I built some truly jumbo sized controllers. They are sturdy on a table or in your lab, and effing huge. Size comparison of my homemade controller:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30203515@N04/albums/72157629736738048


https://www.flickr.com/photos/30203515@N04/albums/72157634800361528


https://www.flickr.com/photos/30203515@N04/albums/72157649774625620

I also have a multiconsole Cthulhu I'm using for USB/MAME/Retro Freak. The Cthulhu also works with several consoles including Turbografx/PCe and I have an 8-pin DIN cable but I haven't wired up the harness yet. No photos yet as it's a work in progress but I used a "kit" controller instead of cutting my own, curtesy of retrobuiltgames.
http://www.retrobuiltgames.com/diy-kits-shop/arcade-fight-stick-v3/
I stained and finished the wood myself. It is a thing of beauty. Because I'm using it primarily for classic consoles and MAME, I plugged the rightmost pair of buttons. I was originally going to add SNES and Genesis (and by extension NES and Atari through backwards compatibility) by pad hacking Yobo clone controller PCBs, but the rats nest of wires inside got to be too much to deal with so I scrapped the clone pads.

I also have a Porta Pi MAME cab from retrobuiltgames. It's the perfect little arcade cab and the perfect compromise between practical size and portability.

http://www.retrobuiltgames.com/diy-kits-shop/porta-pi-arcade-wood-kit-10-hd/

= = = = = = =

As for the TG-16 Arcade stick, is it comparible to the NES Advantage and Sega 3-button Arcade Stick? They're good but not great. If so, I may have to buy one for the collection.

EDIT: Sorry if the embedded photos cut off due to the forum software. Right click and view image for full view.

[rxmage]

I picked up a Turbo Stick in a recent lot.  It definitely improves my game on shooters (and I need all the help I can get).  However, since it uses membrane contacts instead of micro switches, it feels like you're moving a spoon around in a bowl of oatmeal.  I dug out some micro switch joysticks and buttons from my arcade stuff.  If I have the right TTLs, this weekend I plan to try and hack together my own version.  StarDust4Ever, I love your attached photos.  The PiMame rocks!

[StarDust4Ever]

StarDust4Ever, I love your attached photos.  The PiMame rocks!

Thanks! My larger than life arcade controllers are surprisingly comfortable to use. Retro Pie is awesome. I need to get a Pi3 and upgrade to the latest version.

[rxmage]

Thanks! My larger than life arcade controllers are surprisingly comfortable to use. Retro Pie is awesome. I need to get a Pi3 and upgrade to the latest version.

I would imagine that the large controllers would have the feel of an arcade cabinet.  To an old fart like me, that would feel like being home.  I have a Pi3 I stuffed into a SNES mini running Recalbox.  The Pi3 gives you a noticeable boost on N64 games, but nothing earth shattering.  I think once the kernel is optimized for the 64bit processor, we will see a nice increase.

[StarDust4Ever]

I would imagine that the large controllers would have the feel of an arcade cabinet.  To an old fart like me, that would feel like being home.

Yep. My inspiration was the coffee table NES controller that went viral a few years back. I wanted to make a practical to use controller and a 20x8x4 inches plywood box was a good size and weight for adding arcade parts. It's the right size for placing in your lap and the wood itself has enough mass that it won't rock around when rocking the joystick. It uses 3rd party console extension cables for the cable and had a custom digital turbo circuit. The black buttons above the red ones operate as turbo buttons and the knob connects to a 4-position switch which adjusts the digital turbo rate.

Sometime I'll rebuild the circuit to add Turbografx support since the 4-bit counter I used for the digital turbo is already part of the Turbo schematic. Some NES games which use PCM sound channel poll the controller multiple times to prevent read errors, so I had to add a 555 timer operating as a one stop to hold the latch signal for ~2ms until the controller polling was finished. Otherwise cycling the inputs on every latch will crash games that polled the controller multiple times for error correction.

I practically have an Electrical Engineering Technology degree so designing the custom circuit from the ground up using discrete logic was quite a neat undertaking. Sorry for derailing...