the lost games!

Tatsujin · 09/25/2006, 11:04 PM

which are the most wished missing ports you liked to see on our lovely system?

for me definitely nice ports of Contra and Rastan Saga, since i'm very sure both of those would made a very good shape on the pce. it's a shame konami never thought about to bring out a contra, altough they decided to create the best looking akumajou dracula of alltime ;)

anyway the pce isn't blotchet with a lot of action plattformer. rastan saga and contra could grade up the already high quality soft line up just once more.

PC Gaijin · 09/25/2006, 11:09 PM

Contra's a good call. I'd also like to see ports of Ninja Gaiden II and III. And a better port of Ninja Gaiden. How about the Thunderforce series? Final Fight? The PCE is woefully short of great beat-em-ups.

A PCE Shadowrun game on CD would have been awesome too. Always wanted to sample the Compile Mega CD Shadowrun.

rolins · 09/25/2006, 11:09 PM

I would've like to see more arcade games from SNK. Art of Fighting and FF Special were so close to perfect that I can imagine Metal Slug or Pulstar being possible.

Tatsujin · 09/25/2006, 11:50 PM

Quote from: "rolins"I can imagine Metal Slug or Pulstar being possible.

i recently discussed this with keranu, and he showed some nice and very colorful ports in the range of the pce palette.

altough the games wouldn't be possible as a 1:1 port from the neogeo, they would make a very good shape i believe!

but those "new" generation games on the NG came out when the time of the PCE was almost expired, so there was no further interests in porting such titles, since PSX and saturn offers a much more powerful platform to port such nice 2D arcade games!

runinruder · 09/25/2006, 11:55 PM

Phantasy Star II on CD and Chaos Legion on chip.

Keranu · 09/26/2006, 02:46 AM

Haha, Chaos Legion on chip

.

Paranoia Dragon likes to talk about games he would've loved to see ported to the Turbo, and I agree with a lotta his choices, like Contra, Ninja Turtles (four player beat'em up!), Final Fight, etc... Pretty much I would've loved to see any decent run n' gun or beat'em up ports on the system.

SignOfZeta · 09/26/2006, 07:11 AM

Well, its not a port, but really would have liked to see Aim for the Top!: Gunbuster volume 3 come out. It really sucks it got cancelled leaving episodes 5, and 6 unrepresented in game form.

CrackTiger · 09/26/2006, 02:05 PM

Back in the day, I thought that Final Fantasy would be perfect for PCE CD, since they could add more depth to the story and include voices and CD music, let alone cinemas. Especially when FFVI used so much more original art than the previous SFC games.

I also held out hope for Super Street
Fighter II Turbo/X done properly(scrolling bg's) on Arcade CD.

When Dracula X came out, I hoped for a branching Contra game with as much variety in graphics, animation and sfx. It'd be worth it just for a similar CD remix soundtrack.

I still haven't played Monster World IV, which looks like fun and looks like it has the best graphics on Megadrive. A PCE version would've more or less completed the series on a single console, if you count New Adv Island as a version of Wonderboy.

A remake of Phantasy Star would've been cool on CD, or even a slightly upgraded port to HuCard.

I once had a dream where I was playing my newly imported CD2 Mega/Rock Man game. It still looks better in my mind than the way they went with MMX and the 16-bit+ MM's.

Final Fight on PCE CD is a given, since it could've had the color of the SFC version with the detail of the Mega-CD version and it would'nt have needed scrolling bg's in the few places the arcade had them(but they could've still been done).

The game I most wish was on PCE and I plan to port someday if I can ever learn the skills to do it, is Black Tiger. It's the best arcade game of all time. It looks great, but a relatively perfect port would be no problem.

guyjin · 09/26/2006, 08:02 PM

One of my favorite sleeper hits for the NES, The Guardian Legend, would have been awesome on the Turbo; less (or no!) slowdown, bigger color pallete... would've been gorgeous.

Another NES game that would have been great on the turbo is River City Ransom (or whatever the Famicom version is called - Kunio something.)
It's been said before, but I'll say it again: the Turbo needed more beat-em-ups.

Had Hudson/NEC bothered to do a real RPG on HuCard, they could have gotten Miracle Warriors from the SMS. Only 256k - I think it could easily have fit onto a card with gfx improvements.

moving on to 16bit ports, I think the PCE could have done Faceball 2000 as well or better than the SNES did, being a faster machine and all. FB2k, IIRC, has (one of?) the lowest color counts for a SNES game ever, and it isn't an FX game. Not that Faceball 2000 is a great game, but it would have proven that the PCE could do 3D.

And I realize it's an impossible dream, and some here will call me a snerd for saying it, but Secret of Mana on SCD(or ACD!) would have been awesome.

and speaking of the impossible, a Phantasy Star collection on SCD would have been wonderful - would have gotten some needed cash in Sega of Japan's pocket, and probably wouldn't have affected american genny sales at all. I often wonder why they didn't do this with the Sega ports they did get.

Tatsujin · 09/26/2006, 08:32 PM

Quote from: "guyjin"Another NES game that would have been great on the turbo is River City Ransom (or whatever the Famicom version is called - Kunio something.)
It's been said before, but I'll say it again: the Turbo needed more beat-em-ups.

here, see what we already got

Downtown Nekketsu Monogatari:
http://www.pcecp.com/index.php?mode=catalog&action=images

the rub is, it isn't that easy to get one and if ,you have to spend a lot of credits

also the faceball thing we got.

http://www.pcecp.com/index.php?mode=catalog&action=images

guyjin · 09/26/2006, 09:40 PM

how did I not know about this! I must find it!

OldRover · 09/26/2006, 09:45 PM

Quote from: "guyjin"I think the PCE could have done Faceball 2000 as well or better than the SNES did, being a faster machine and all. FB2k, IIRC, has (one of?) the lowest color counts for a SNES game ever, and it isn't an FX game. Not that Faceball 2000 is a great game, but it would have proven that the PCE could do 3D.

By use of simple raycasting, I believe the PCE could have handled this game just fine. I think FB2K uses raycasting anyways. Anyways, I might do a short little raycasting demo for the PCE to see if the machine could really handle this...the CPU has more than enough power but the planar video memory might make it difficult.

I would have liked to have seen a PROPER port of Golden Axe. The existing PCE port SUCKS HARDCORE!

Tatsujin · 09/26/2006, 09:50 PM

Quote from: "guyjin" how did I not know about this! I must find it!

good luck!!

see it sometimes in the shops but always costs about 15'000Yen (US$140). i believe on ebay you can't find it below this price, if even there is one on sale!

guyjin · 09/26/2006, 10:30 PM

*sob*

300 bucks. I won't even put down $150+ for Drac X, and I'm sure this is not as good a game. And the guy doesn't even show the disc itself, so I call shenanigans.

CrackTiger · 09/26/2006, 11:03 PM

Quote from: "guyjin"Had Hudson/NEC bothered to do a real RPG on HuCard, they could have gotten Miracle Warriors from the SMS. Only 256k - I think it could easily have fit onto a card with gfx improvements.

I was going to mention MW, but I already listed quite a few games and Miracle Warriors is already 16-bit enough. The main thing that would've improved it on any system would've been a larger sized cart or CD. Then the battles and map could be full(er) screen and animation could be added. But again, not that it needs improvement.

Quotehow did I not know about this! I must find it!

Well, at least one of us had a dream PCE port come true.

Tatsujin · 09/27/2006, 12:38 AM

oh just found an other missing port. Daiku no Gensan aka Hammerin' Harry!! why the heck Irem didn't port that fabulous and especially in japan so popular game? they brought all the other splendid titles from their repertoire such as mr. heli no daibouken, legend of hero tonma, ninja spirit/saigou no nindou, vigilante (and r-type by hudson) in very nice as well as close arcade ports but just forgot the poor gensan

unfortunately the GB, FC and SFC ports aren't arcade equal. in the PCE it could be! so there is no daiku no gensan exist outside the arcades!! so IREM, why not??

Tatsujin · 09/27/2006, 12:40 AM

Quote from: "CrackTiger"
Quotehow did I not know about this! I must find it!

Well, at least one of us had a dream PCE port come true.

praise the lord

VestCunt · 09/27/2006, 04:16 AM

Quote from: "guyjin"O
And I realize it's an impossible dream, and some here will call me a snerd for saying it, but Secret of Mana on SCD(or ACD!) would have been awesome.

Magicoal (SCD) is similar in style to Secret of Mana and even has two-player mode. It's also cheap.

Faceball is cheap but not spectacular. I think it's worth just because it's as close as you're going to get to a FPS on the PCE.

As far as that seller with Downtown Nekketsu Monogatari for $300, 16-bit/Mad Gear does charge some premium prices but if you're willing to shell out the bucks you can count on super fast shipping and a quality product. I picked up a few games from him but the rare games he has are always too expen$ive. he has uncommon games sometimes for reasonable prices.

Seldane · 09/27/2006, 11:34 AM

Secret of Mana would have been impossible to make on the PC Engine. Especially the map, that would've never worked - not even with the arcade card.

CrackTiger · 09/27/2006, 02:43 PM

Quote from: "Seldane"Secret of Mana would have been impossible to make on the PC Engine. Especially the map, that would've never worked - not even with the arcade card.

I think that even the sequal to Secret Of Mana could've been done on on PC Engine or Megadrive. It wouldn't have been exactly the same on each system, but each one could have unique strengths.

As for the map, even if they didn't give it the Wonderswan Final Fantasy warping treatment(already seen in Vasteel), the ugly warping map was my least favorite part of the game and it would be great to have a detailed 2D map instead. But Chris Covell could probably whip up a reasonable facsimily himself.

I remember the first time I played The Legend Of Xanadu II, my first reaction was how similar it looked to Legend Of Mana PSX.

Pretty much anything can be ported to anything, it's not always going to be exactly the same, but that's how we wound up with some of our favorite versions of classic games.

Digi.k · 09/27/2006, 05:21 PM

theres a lot of capcom games I would have liked on the PCE same as Konami games.

a final fight game woulda been awesome.. as would have super street fighter II turbo would have been amazing or street fighter hyper fighting

Konami... some of those MSX games would probably have played like a dream on PCE..

oh and I would have loved the pce to have gotten its own bubble bobble.

hammerin harry I was gaggin for a conversion too as was i desperate for Dragon breed.

SignOfZeta · 09/27/2006, 06:01 PM

Quote from: "CrackTiger"Pretty much anything can be ported to anything, it's not always going to be exactly the same, but that's how we wound up with some of our favorite versions of classic games.

Have you ever played Rampage on 2600, or maybe MSHvsSF on PS?

Yeah, anything can be ported to anything but I'll not play crap regardless of what system its on. A Seiken Densetsu game on PCE would have been...well, if it were an original title made just for PCE emphasizing the NEC side of things, that would have been nice, but honestly porting the SFC titles would have just been a pathetic joke. Worse than Strider for NES. I'd rather not go through that sort of embarrassment.

guyjin · 09/27/2006, 06:59 PM

I liked NES strider.

CrackTiger · 09/27/2006, 07:45 PM

Quote from: "SignOfZeta"
Quote from: CrackTigerPretty much anything can be ported to anything, it's not always going to be exactly the same, but that's how we wound up with some of our favorite versions of classic games.

Have you ever played Rampage on 2600, or maybe MSHvsSF on PS?

Yeah, anything can be ported to anything but I'll not play crap regardless of what system its on. A Seiken Densetsu game on PCE would have been...well, if it were an original title made just for PCE emphasizing the NEC side of things, that would have been nice, but honestly porting the SFC titles would have just been a pathetic joke. Worse than Strider for NES. I'd rather not go through that sort of embarrassment.

Donkey Kong Country turned out just fine on Gameboy. So did The Legend Of Zelda Link's Awakening. There are countless SNES games that SNES fanboys would've said would be impossible to port to Genesis, but they still turned out fine.

But if you beleive that the SFC/SNES is 24-bit and the PC Engine is 8-bit, then I can see why you'd think it would be a pathetic joke. But even if it were that kind of a difference(like say porting Neo Geo fighters to PCE), quality ports or new versions could still be made.

Strider NES is the perfect example. Capcom took a mediocre arcade game and turned it into something great. Same with Bionic Commando.

If you're judging what a system can do only by the games, I can see how you might get crazy ideas about what's possible on PC Engine. Especially if you haven't played many of the PCE titles with better graphics.

Cartridge games were made graphic intensive with lots of recycling because of the nature of the format. The CD format took off on PCE, so simple games usually got the HuCard treatment and CD games usually emphasized quantity of graphics and gameplay over cramming as much as possible into every scene. But lots of CD games still did produce graphics as good as or better than the SFC 'standard'. But it's usually in random doses throughout a big game.

Bad ports are bad ports. They aren't technical guidebooks on the limits of a particular console.

Have you ever played World Heroes 2, Fatal Fury Special or Art Of Fighting on PC Engine? Shouldn't these be harder to port than a SFC game?

GUTS · 09/27/2006, 08:54 PM

PC Engine could have turned out Secret of Mana easily, there's absolutely nothing about that game that is even SLIGHTLY graphically impressive. The map is the only thing that might have been tricky, but it looks like total shit on the SNES anyway so I'm sure somebody could have coded a decent "mode 7" effect that would have looked equally as shitty. But I totally agree with CrackTiger, a 2D map would have looked way better anyway. Go play Anearth Fantasy Stories if you want proof that the PCE could do any SNES RPG, it's as graphically impressive as any SNES RPG out there.

Tatsujin · 09/27/2006, 09:25 PM

the SFC #1 advantage was its color palette, therefore any games came in a very colorful look, especially all those RPGs. i beliveve this would/could be the only hurdle for a possible restriction in the graphicaly aspect of view.

Ninja Spirit · 09/27/2006, 09:28 PM

Stuff like this is what I think of very heavily when I'm cutting grass, or in the shower, etc.

To me it would've been great if I saw
> A Rockman/Megaman title

> Gyruss! If there were to be a PC Engine port for Gyruss, Toccata and Fugue in D Minor would've sounded like this:

(NES Gyruss "BACH'S TOCCATA AND FUGUE IN D MINOR" PCE Arrange)

> Final Fantasy

> Out Zone by Toaplan

Tatsujin · 09/27/2006, 09:52 PM

oh yes, you're so right..generally more toaplan titles i've liked to see

liked to see a snow. bros, wardner no mori, hishou zame or vimana as well. out zone would be just awesome! one of the best titles in the toaplan lineup.

but anyway, we got the only and one port of horror story / demon's world. very nice and unique game

SignOfZeta · 09/27/2006, 09:55 PM

Quote from: "CrackTiger"Have you ever played World Heroes 2, Fatal Fury Special or Art Of Fighting on PC Engine? Shouldn't these be harder to port than a SFC game?

Not really. The Geo's big strength is its massively huge carts, in other words memory. That obstical was (somewhat) overcome by the arcade card. Yes, I've played all the Geo ports on PCE except World Heroes. They are nice. Fatal Fury Special especially, which is much better than the SNES, or Sega CD versions. I don't think that the PCE could do that well with KOF2003, or Prehistoric Isle 2 to save its life though.

The thing with SNES games by Square is that they often are extremely SNES-y. They are loaded with transparencies, scaling, and very high color counts. Seiken 2...maybe something passable could be done, but not Seiken 3. The SNES could barely do the stuff in Seiken 3, and the game was built totally around the strengths of the SNES. It would be like trying to do Sapphire on the SNES...oh man that would suck. No redbook audio, slowdown and flickering all over the place...what a nightmare that would be.

Yes, I have "crazy ideas" about what a system does because of the games I've played on it. WTF else am I supossed to go by? Some theoretical loyalist dream about what the machine can do? The PCE can't scale. It just can't. You can write code that scales, but that hits the CPU like a mofo. You can redraw every frame of the object you want to scale prior and load them as frames of animation (ie: Space Harrier) but that eats memory, and you try to do that with something like a world map...a lot of memory. Hundreds of full screen frames would be needed. The PCE can't do transparencies either. Just that every-other-field thing they do with shadows, and other stuff. It never looks like a transparency from a SNES, or a Saturn, or whatever. You can talk theories, and programming skill, and single screen tech demos made 10 years after the death of the system, but the shit never actually happened on the PCE during its life which leads me to believe that it was either impossible, or such a bitch that it wasn't worth it because there is no shortage of good programing in the PCE library.

I mean, its one thing if you have a five foot cock made of sand and you thing everything SNES sucks ass and you wonder what the point would be of Seiken on PCE, or even SNES in the first place, but there is such a thing as reality and reality says that you can't do Seiken 3 on a PC Engine and achieve anything that does the source material justice. You can't to Gran Turismo on the Watara Supervision, you can't do Sakura Wars 3 on the Vectrex, you can't do Viewtiful Joe on the MSX.

I mean...sure, you can make the game and sell it to people, but its really just pointless. New games that emphasize the good things about a system should be made, instead of trying to shoehorn an iMax film onto a cel phone screen.

Case in point: Zelda for GB. It was a new game made just for GB, and its actually my 2nd favorite Zelda game. Its really, IMO, quite a bit better than Link to the Past and never would have been the case if it were just a crap port of Link to the Past.

SignOfZeta · 09/27/2006, 09:59 PM

Quote from: "GUTS"Go play Anearth Fantasy Stories if you want proof that the PCE could do any SNES RPG, it's as graphically impressive as any SNES RPG out there.

That good eh? I've never played it. Is it expensive? Or more importantly, does it actually look as good as Tales of Phantasia, or DQVI? Those are pretty friggn slick, IMO.

Tatsujin · 09/27/2006, 10:06 PM

Quote from: "SignOfZeta"It would be like trying to do Sapphire on the SNES...oh man that would suck. No redbook audio, slowdown and flickering all over the place...what a nightmare that would be.

on the other hand, if you regarding to rendering ranger you might imagine how the SFC could manage a lot of huge as well as nice animated prerendered sprites in a high color palette. this game is just amazing in matter of any technical aspects. imo still the figurehead to show the "possible" capacity of the under clocked SFC

SignOfZeta · 09/27/2006, 10:28 PM

Quote from: "Tatsujin"on the other hand, if you regarding to rendering ranger you might imagine how the SFC could manage a lot of huge as well as nice animated prerendered sprites in a high color palette. this game is just amazing in matter of any technical aspects. imo still the figurehead to show the "possible" capacity of the under clocked SFC

I don't know man. I don't think the SNES could even handle Super Star Solider. I love the SNES to death but it sucked at shooters. The most technically impressive shooter on SNES, IMO, is Macross: Scrambled Valkyrie. I'm not sure why that one turned out so very very very great. Probably because it was original to the system, and not some crap port. The same can be said for Axelay, which is also extremely nice.

Keranu · 09/27/2006, 11:04 PM

Thought it would be fun to throw in a screenshot of Secret of Mana and Seiken Densentsu 3 coverted to PCE palette in this thread:

/somjt4.png
/sd3tg7.png

That's just a simple program that converted the images. You can make them look even nicer by editing them yourself. Saying the PCE can't do Secret of Mana is like saying it can't handle Ranger-X

.

grahf · 09/27/2006, 11:20 PM

I wish there would have been a few more Street Fighter II sized hucards. Not physical size mind you, just memory wise. Im a really big hucard fan. I kinda wish that fake Dracula X hucard were real. The cd music is phenominal in that game, but im sure Konami would have done the chiptunes justice. Just look what they did with Castlevania 1-3 on NES.

Tatsujin · 09/28/2006, 04:43 AM

Quote from: "SignOfZeta"
Quote from: "Tatsujin"on the other hand, if you regarding to rendering ranger you might imagine how the SFC could manage a lot of huge as well as nice animated prerendered sprites in a high color palette. this game is just amazing in matter of any technical aspects. imo still the figurehead to show the "possible" capacity of the under clocked SFC

I don't know man. I don't think the SNES could even handle Super Star Solider. I love the SNES to death but it sucked at shooters. The most technically impressive shooter on SNES, IMO, is Macross: Scrambled Valkyrie. I'm not sure why that one turned out so very very very great. Probably because it was original to the system, and not some crap port. The same can be said for Axelay, which is also extremely nice.

only one question. ever played super aleste and/or rendering rangers?

i know the SFC sucks at its technical side. but if the right guys are behind the programms, also in the SFC almost impossible things came possible!

Keranu · 09/28/2006, 05:17 AM

Personally, slowdown in games never bothers me much so I don't have a problem with SNES hardware myself. However I do find slowdown annoying when it is as bad as the bubble level in Gradius III, but I hardly see SNES games slowdown that much. If you ask me, colors are a pretty important part of nice graphics.

SignOfZeta · 09/28/2006, 07:19 AM

Quote from: "Keranu"Thought it would be fun to throw in a screenshot of Secret of Mana and Seiken Densentsu 3 coverted to PCE palette in this thread:

Um...that really doesn't mean jack. Its a static image.

Saying the PCE can't do Secret of Mana is like saying the Playstation can't do Xmen versus Street Fighter. Its true. It can't do Xmen versus Street Fighter. Someone can throw together a pile of crap and call is Xmen versus Street Fighter, but really its just a pile of crap.

SignOfZeta · 09/28/2006, 07:21 AM

Quote from: "Tatsujin"only one question. ever played super aleste and/or rendering rangers?

i know the SFC sucks at its technical side. but if the right guys are behind the programms, also in the SFC almost impossible things came possible!

Actually, I've never even heard of Rendering Rangers!

Seriously though, the SNES is possibly my favorite game machine ever. You don't need to win me over. It just sucks at shooters. I'm fine with that.

Seldane · 09/28/2006, 08:06 AM

Maybe Secret of Mana could be ported to PCE, but it would be one hell of a bad port - the map would have to be removed, tons of sprites would have to be removed (and they would have to be MUCH smaller), no transparency, etc etc etc.

Seiken Densetsu 3 would be completely impossible to make on the PC Engine. It would be a completely different game. A very bad game.

Just converting the colors has nothing to do with it - the hardware wouldn't be able to handle it. Have you played through SD3? If not - do it. There's TONS of stuff in that game that the PC Engine couldn't pull off regardless of what techniques were used.

Oh yes. Static images. That proves EVERYTHING! Seiken Densetsu can DEFINITELY be ported to PCE, and they should have - because the PCE game would've been better (because, you know, it would be on the PCE)!!

Seiken densetsu 3 - SNES / PCE
/seikendensetsu30000rg5.png
/seikendensetsu300009bpppm1.png
/seikendensetsu30004bk2.png
/seikendensetsu300049bppsq4.png

I mean, even Super Mario 64 could EASILY be ported to PCE - just look for yourself! The colors look almost the same!

/3wer9bppkh1.png

Keranu · 09/28/2006, 06:37 PM

I wasn't really trying to debate, I just thought it would be fun to throw in those screenshots for people to view. I personally think PCE could handle Secret of Mana and Seiken Densetsu 3, but technically it would have to be proven.

Colors are pretty important, so the screenshots you and I posted are a great way of showing how the colors would've came out, so that's one thing down and it looks like it did a fairly decent job.

The map indeed would probably be the hardest thing to port. Whether or not it would be possible to port, I don't know. A programmer would know better than me on that. Chris Covell's Axelay demo looked great and is a bit similar to the Secret of Mana map, so it's a tough call in my opinion.

Transparency can be faked in many ways, so it depends on how well the developer and immitate it.

I don't know why tons of sprites would have to be removed and I really don't see why they would have to be much smaller

? Especially if it's a Super CD or Arcade CD game, it would have plenty of RAM for all of that. The sprites in the game are pretty average-to-small for the most part anyways, even the bosses are usually nothing huge.

I haven't played through SD3, so please fill us in on what would be impossible from it to port on PCE or Genesis for that matter. I've only played a little bit of the game and thought the graphics looked great, but that was mainly because of the artwork and coloring.

By the way, that Mario 64 converted screenshot looks great! (seriously)

Seldane · 09/28/2006, 06:41 PM

Quote from: "Keranu"By the way, that Mario 64 converted screenshot looks great! (seriously)

Actually that's not a converted screenshot at all. That is a screenshot of Mario 64 running on an actual PC Engine.

Keranu · 09/28/2006, 06:47 PM

Sweetness!

Tatsujin · 09/28/2006, 08:31 PM

Quote from: "Keranu"Chris Covell's Axelay demo..

can be found where?

TurboXray · 09/28/2006, 09:27 PM

Rendering Ranger R2 is about as crappy as its title suggests. I haven't played SD3. I take it there are some buku effects in this game?

PCE version SOM would have some water'd down or missing effects, but SGX on the other hand

As for the 3D part, you could always do the Axelay effect - sans rotation though. SOM was a good game, but not really impressive but SNES standards. Of all the things SNES has a poor sprite per scanline limit in comparison to its other specs, hence why they use a BG layer for medium/large bosses. Not a bad thing in substitution, just a fact. SGX wouldn't have a problem doing the same( Genesis does it too), but this wouldn't translate well for the PCE as it'd have to use sprites in place of.

Btw, Axelay doesn't use scaling for the those 3D levels as some of you know.

Keranu, I think a lot of SNES (and GEO) game graphics convert fairly well to the PCE format is because it's still limited to 15(16) colors per tile and the fact that the BG is limited to 8 15 color palette helps. Ofcourse transparency aside.

Tatsujin · 09/28/2006, 09:51 PM

Quote from: "Bonknuts"Rendering Ranger R2 is about as crappy as its title suggests.

how can you say that? the game was programmed from a alomst oneman-team, the programming-legend from germany manfred trenz (responsible for almost all the Turricans on Amiga C64 etc).
in the post above i didn't talk about the quality of the game generally (imo i like it a lot, since it is a very special and nice made game). but the technical execution is somehow the best i've ever seen on the SFC (next close one could may be super aleste). the only noticeable stutters are in one of the last stages, where a really huge squadron of enemies attacks you from both side. the screen is full of huge sprites and explosions! in this engagement, you even can't see the BG anymore!
further all the prerender animation are fantastic made and even equal to some of the huge animations in sapphire. since this all is stored on a simple SFC-card, i think it is an unique product, especially in matter of technical aspects.

Keranu · 09/28/2006, 10:30 PM

I've been meaning to play Rendering Ranger R2, I've heard it's good.

TurboXray · 09/28/2006, 10:57 PM

Quote from: "Tatsujin"
Quote from: "Bonknuts"Rendering Ranger R2 is about as crappy as its title suggests.

how can you say that? the game was programmed from a alomst oneman-team, the programming-legend from germany manfred trenz (responsible for almost all the Turricans on Amiga C64 etc).
in the post above i didn't talk about the quality of the game generally (imo i like it a lot, since it is a very special and nice made game). but the technical execution is somehow the best i've ever seen on the SFC (next close one could may be super aleste). the only noticeable stutters are in one of the last stages, where a really huge squadron of enemies attacks you from both side. the screen is full of huge sprites and explosions! in this engagement, you even can't see the BG anymore!
further all the prerender animation are fantastic made and even equal to some of the huge animations in sapphire. since this all is stored on a simple SFC-card, i think it is an unique product, especially in matter of technical aspects.

RR has the early/mid 90's Euro game design/feel that just looks generic to me. As far as technical, what's so special about it? Those big (and little) enemy sprites are almost all stills, the futher background layers are just seriously repeated tiles. While first boss is nice, it's nothing special and it is a background layer not a sprite. The explosions are nicely animated, but nothing speical either. The first level design and enemy layout is pretty plain - nothing exciting and quite repetitive. Overall its decent - especially if you like that look/style, but it's nothing to write home about. Nothing in the game screams technical achievement. I guess you have to see it from a console coders point of view - based on the ins and outs and bottle necks of the SNES.

Besides, prerender graphics like those are a cop-out for hand drawn graphics - IMO. There are plenty of impressive SNES games, just not that one.

Tatsujin · 09/28/2006, 11:59 PM

yes, i know i can't see all the details in matter of technical issues as may be you do! but in the end the action it is what counts, and the action in RR comes just superior on to the screen. as i said, the style of the game is not to discuss in here, it's leave to everyone's own taste! i cleared it several times as well as alomst all the other jump'n'shot genres on the SFC, and i couldn't find an other title which comes close to the action of RR. of course a contra spirits looks much nicer and more arcadey, also it is more elaborated, but couldn't imo reach the same level in matter of action.

TurboXray · 09/29/2006, 12:46 AM

Don't get me wrong, technically it's a solid game

I'll play it some more to see the other levels.

VestCunt · 09/29/2006, 01:54 AM

Hey Keranu,
I don't know anything about technical system specs, but did those comparison shots with Secret of Mana and Seiken Densentsu 3 abide by the maximum number of colors that the PCE can display? I know that the number of colors allowed on screen is fewer than the colors available in the palette.

BTW, can you do a shot of what a game would look like on the SMS?

Quote from: "SignOfZeta"I mean, its one thing if you have a five foot cock made of sand and you thing everything SNES sucks ass and you wonder what the point would be of...

This is a damn funny post!