Cadash ports

NoSexGex · 02/09/2017, 05:30 PM

Any other Cadash fans out there? I believe the arcade is the definitive port. But between these, are there any hardline opinions? I have my own, but curious as to what other people think

esteban · 02/09/2017, 05:54 PM

I prefer the TG-16 to Genesis.

I haven't played much of the arcade for at least a decade... so I can't comment.

NecroPhile · 02/09/2017, 06:04 PM

Arcade isn't a port. It's the original, no?

The FEKA version looks closer to the arcade, but I prefer the Turbob version for its brighter colors and all four characters.

EmperorIng · 02/09/2017, 06:38 PM

Arcade is indeed the original.

Neither port does the original justice, imo. They both share problems, and have their own unique problems.

The original is very tense, difficult action-platformer game. Even with giving yourself the option of early grinding, the game can easily overwhelm hasty or unprepared players with death - even those with the false security of killing pig-men for five minutes at the opening screen. That being said, the game was still designed for a methodical player to beat without grinding any experience points. The arcade original's four characters almost act as a set of difficulty levels, with the Priest being the easiest, due to her long range + invincibility spell, and the Mage being one of the hardest with his low HP and poor attack - mitigated somewhat by his incredibly useful offensive spells, at least on the enemies that are not immune to magic!

The giant level maps give the worlds a feeling of being interconnected, and I like the variety of the adventure - between rescuing a mermaid, or avenging a dog's dead owner ("Now you have avenged my people, woof woof!"), or slowly mapping your way through the final labyrinthine castle. All the while carefully managing your resources by stocking up on herbs, finding the two hidden elixirs, and spacing out trips to the inn (as the prices rapidly increase to beyond your means very quickly).

There are some things I am not a fan of in either port. For one, both remove the time limit and the increasing price of inn stays. This essentially removes the tension of knowing which paths to take (and what risks come with them) and completing levels as quickly and efficiently as possible. IMO, that's a large part of what makes the arcade game enjoyable. Further, removing the inn price increases means that the games are extremely easy because a full heal/MP restore is merely a trek back to the nearest inn. I like that the inn's in the arcade game give the foolish player the belief that they are a resource to be freely used, whereas a more experience player will push him or herself to the edge to make those early cheap visits to the inn count.

There are also minor things, like removing the secret artifacts in the crypt level (like the charmingly goofy little version of your sprite you carry around on your head), or making the mermaid scales an item you pick up, or having to necessarily compromise on the huge maps. They are less important, but they give the game its flavor.

The PCE version really should have been a CD port, as being limited to the HuCard just makes too many compromises: the graphics lose that nice grittiness by being too colorful and tiles too cartoonish, and the screen transitions are a little lame. While all four characters are there, the priest isn't as powerful as her arcade incarnation (flail doesn't seem as effective... just me?).

The MD port gets rid of the two most interesting classes, and its hit detection seems a bit worse than the PCE port and arcade.

While in some sense it's novel to see the attempt to port the game and have two different ways to play it in English (though lord knows how Working Designs "modified" the HuCard, if at all), unlike other Taito ports of that era (Darius II, New Zealand Story MD*, Kiki KaiKai), Cadash didn't make the transition very smoothly.

Now that I've talked up the arcade game so much, let me recommend you boot up MAME and play the US version of Cadash if you are interested. If that is too hard, the World version is easier (as it locks inn prices at 5000 gold) and lets you carry 8 herbs at a time instead of 4. The US version's translation can be a little stiff, but the World translation is hilariously unintelligible ("Thank you for the important thing!"). The World version is a good way to get acclimated to Cadash and go for the tougher JP/USA settings O:)

*the MD port has some issues, mainly the lack of warp points (that does hurt), though TNZS stands as an interesting console port of the prototype/location-test layout of the game, which makes it unique

Michirin9801 · 02/09/2017, 06:59 PM

I've only ever played the TurboGrafx-16 version, but not for very long as I couldn't really get into it... The graphics in it are nice, but the music really doesn't do the soundchip justice, but the real problem I had with the game is that I found it to be too confusing...

ccovell · 02/09/2017, 07:09 PM

Yeah, Taito's own arcade ports like Cadash, New Zealand Story, Volfied... had really, really weak sound drivers. NES PSG+, basically. That's the first thing I noticed with all these games, and many of you here too, probably.

FraGMarE · 02/09/2017, 07:19 PM

I think the general consensus around here, and in the gaming community at large, is that the TG16 version is slightly superior to the Genesis version. And I agree with them.

Most of my complaints with the game lie with the original arcade game, so I really cannot fault either port for them. One thing about the TG16 version that's always bugged me is whoever did the sprite art could NOT compensate for the adjusted aspect ratio for shit (or just didn't). the sprites WERE redrawn for the TG16/PCE version... just not properly. The fighter looks like he's wearing Hammer Pants for crying out loud. :/

If you're going to take a 4:3 320x240ish arcade game and opt to use the 256x240 mode on the PCE, but you forget that all the sprites should be ~20% skinnier... you're in for a bad time, as a sprite artist.

Medic_wheat · 02/09/2017, 07:34 PM

I have only played the TG-16 game some I can't conspire to the arcade original. With that said I greatly enjoy it as a whole.

Digi.k · 02/09/2017, 08:29 PM

I used to hate the sound of the pc engine version but I've grown to enjoy it. It's got a nice sombre tone to it.

The ninja is the best character to begin with.

All the other characters take a bit more time to level up before they can take a beating.

TR0N · 02/10/2017, 01:36 AM

Prefer the TG16 port at the most since it has the ninja and priest.

DragonmasterDan · 02/10/2017, 07:13 AM

There's a port/emulation on the OG Xbox version of one of the Taito Legends discs.

Gypsy · 02/10/2017, 08:47 AM

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 02/10/2017, 07:13 AMThere's a port/emulation on the OG Xbox version of one of the Taito Legends discs.

Taito Legends 2. It's in the Xbox and PC version.

The first Taito Legends should be the same across platforms.

CrackTiger · 02/10/2017, 11:11 AM

I don't know if Taito Legends 2 was released in North America. I know that I had to import it at the time, but maybe it got a release later on?

crazydean · 02/10/2017, 11:28 AM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 02/10/2017, 11:11 AMI don't know if Taito Legends 2 was released in North America. I know that I had to import it at the time, but maybe it got a release later on?

According to hardcore gaming, it was only Europe.

JoshTurboTrollX · 02/10/2017, 11:53 AM

Turbo version because Ninja and Priest. Why on earth was the Meager Drive not able to fit in these characters? Is the Sega 16-bit wonder truly that feeble in comparison to OBEY?

I know the answer is yes, but I just like poking the FEKA Bear...

EmperorIng · 02/10/2017, 12:07 PM

Quote from: crazydean on 02/10/2017, 11:28 AM
Quote from: CrackTiger on 02/10/2017, 11:11 AMI don't know if Taito Legends 2 was released in North America. I know that I had to import it at the time, but maybe it got a release later on?
According to hardcore gaming, it was only Europe.

Well HG101 and "accuracy" don't normally go hand in hand. Taito Legends 2 for the PS2 was released in the US, but doesn't have Cadash. The Xbox version does, as part of Taito's stupid "make sure no one has all of our games" plan. Though the PS2 version lucks out with arcade-perfect ports of RayStorm and G-Darius, something that the PS1 couldn't handle.

I think this still doesn't compare to the four Taito Memories compilations released in Japan, which still have more games on them. Why PuLiRuLa was not released in the US on either compilation is baffling, considering its inclusion in the Taito Memories releases.

NecroPhile · 02/10/2017, 12:34 PM

Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 02/10/2017, 11:53 AMTurbo version because Ninja and Priest. Why on earth was the Meager Drive not able to fit in these characters?

They ran out of browns to draw the sprites.

NoSexGex · 02/10/2017, 01:29 PM

Quote from: NecroPhile on 02/10/2017, 12:34 PM
Quote from: JoshTurboTrollX-16 on 02/10/2017, 11:53 AMTurbo version because Ninja and Priest. Why on earth was the Meager Drive not able to fit in these characters?
They ran out of browns to draw the sprites.

lool

Quote from: NecroPhile on 02/09/2017, 06:04 PMArcade isn't a port. It's the original, no?

There was no excuse for them not to include extra classes into the Genesis port.

And yes the arcade was the original from my memory, bad terminology on my end

CrackTiger · 02/10/2017, 01:35 PM

I don't want to defend a major source of misinformation and console war propaganda, but that hg101 article might have been slapped together before TL2 was finally released in North America.

Dicer · 02/10/2017, 05:37 PM

Turbo>Arcade>>>Genesis

It's a game that plays better as a home port than an arcade one IMHO.

Turbo is bright and colorful, the sound is a bit low end for the console but it's o.k.
Arcade is arcade but it's def a quarter eater
Genesis is muddy and missing the two better classes so yeah.

Gentlegamer · 02/10/2017, 10:32 PM

I've always wondered: what does 'cadash' mean?

EmperorIng · 02/10/2017, 10:38 PM

Cadash is apparently the name of the castle/kingdom of Baarogue.

THAT'S RIGHT! I AM
THE KING OF DEVIL,
BAAROGUE!

As for "quarter eater," it only is if you rush into an area without treating it methodically, or are unprepared. While there is plenty to "surprise" you, if you know how to manage enemies before they become threats, you can punch your way through. I'm not an expert (nor have I 1CC'd the game!) but I typically get to the plant world or graveyard on one credit.

NoSexGex · 02/11/2017, 02:25 AM

Quote from: EmperorIng on 02/10/2017, 10:38 PMCadash is apparently the name of the castle/kingdom of Baarogue.

Yes.. I've always wondered that too

BigusSchmuck · 02/11/2017, 11:01 AM

I recall playing Cadash in the arcades (Wunderland in Portland Oregon) back in the early 90s. I enjoyed it, but I ended up finishing it only cause it was free play. The Turbo version is closer to the arcade than the genny version, but damn good luck trying to get someone to play 2 players in that game. Got to have a lot of patience.

TheClash603 · 02/11/2017, 03:55 PM

Was Cadash a popular arcade game? I was in arcades all the time around the time it came out and none of the ones around me had the game.

I played on MAME in college and the arcade game was fun, but being on free play I was hardly playing the game as it was intended.

TG16 > Genesis to me, because the missing characters are too glaring of an omission.

BigusSchmuck · 02/11/2017, 04:11 PM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 02/11/2017, 03:55 PMWas Cadash a popular arcade game? I was in arcades all the time around the time it came out and none of the ones around me had the game.

I played on MAME in college and the arcade game was fun, but being on free play I was hardly playing the game as it was intended.

TG16 > Genesis to me, because the missing characters are too glaring of an omission.

In short, no one really played it. At least over at Wunderland. Everyone seemed to be infatuated with the latest Street Fighter (Championship Edition I believe) and Mortal Kombat to even blink an eye at it.

EmperorIng · 02/11/2017, 04:39 PM

Well, Cadash would have been 3 or 4 years old by that time if people were waiting for MK and SF updates. I'm sure it was no Bubble Bobble, but I imagine in the late 80s its 4-player possibilities made it fairly popular - enough for two separate ports in any event.

DragonmasterDan · 02/11/2017, 06:04 PM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 02/11/2017, 03:55 PMWas Cadash a popular arcade game? I was in arcades all the time around the time it came out and none of the ones around me had the game.

.

I saw it at a few arcades growing up. It wasn't uncommon but it wasn't super popular either.

NoSexGex · 02/11/2017, 07:57 PM

Quote from: BigusSchmuck on 02/11/2017, 11:01 AMGot to have a lot of patience.

Yeaah especially at the beginning when it's pretty much mandatory to grind, i can see it definitely being discouraging just starting out

esteban · 02/13/2017, 01:31 PM

Quote from: TheClash603 on 02/11/2017, 03:55 PMWas Cadash a popular arcade game? I was in arcades all the time around the time it came out and none of the ones around me had the game.

I played on MAME in college and the arcade game was fun, but being on free play I was hardly playing the game as it was intended.

TG16 > Genesis to me, because the missing characters are too glaring of an omission.

I never even heard (from a friend) about Cadash. Ha!

I never saw it at local arcades... however, even though I was lucky enough to have a bunch of places with arcade games (beyond the arcades), there were, sadly, SOOOO MANY games that I never had access to.

Cadash
Splatterhouse
Tower of Druaga (ok, just kidding about this)
Karnov
Jackal
Gradius
Etc.
Etc.

At the time, I didn't realize how many arcade games I was missing out on.

Gentlegamer · 02/13/2017, 04:09 PM

Cadash was in every TILT I went to back in the day.

One with two cabs linked for four player.

esteban · 02/13/2017, 06:07 PM

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 02/13/2017, 04:09 PMCadash was in every TILT I went to back in the day.

One with two cabs linked for four player.

I would love to see what a co-op game was like with arcade hardware.

Maybe one day...

NoSexGex · 02/13/2017, 06:56 PM

Anyone ever make any serious progress with the wizard?

EmperorIng · 02/13/2017, 08:22 PM

A very good 1CC run of the Wizard in the arcade Cadash was posted not too long ago. It's been my guide in my attempts to actually beat the game without credit-feeding. I can get to the graveyard with the Wizard without dying.

Once you get the lightning spell, you never use anything else.

DragonmasterDan · 02/14/2017, 05:29 AM

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 02/13/2017, 04:09 PMCadash was in every TILT I went to back in the day.

One with two cabs linked for four player.

I only went to one TILT in Saint Peters Missouri but I can confirm they did indeed have Cadash.

Gentlegamer · 02/14/2017, 07:51 AM

Quote from: NoSexGex on 02/13/2017, 06:56 PMAnyone ever make any serious progress with the wizard?

The daggers spell wrecks almost everything, then you get chain lightning, which is like a win button.

ParanoiaDragon · 02/15/2017, 01:10 AM

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 02/13/2017, 04:09 PMCadash was in every TILT I went to back in the day.

One with two cabs linked for four player.

Wow, I never knew TILT was a franchise! I had one here in Southern Cali at the Thousand Oaks mall! Practically grew up inside of it, though I think my middle brother spent more time then me, partially due to it going out of business sometime in the 90's(don't remember what year). As for Cadash, I saw it fairly often at differnet arcades & pizza places etc., so I sucked at it, but I played it often!

Gentlegamer · 02/15/2017, 07:59 AM

Quote from: Gentlegamer on 02/13/2017, 04:09 PMCadash was in every TILT I went to back in the day.

One with two cabs linked for four player.

Wow, I never knew TILT was a franchise! I had one here in Southern Cali at the Thousand Oaks mall! Practically grew up inside of it, though I think my middle brother spent more time then me, partially due to it going out of business sometime in the 90's(don't remember what year). As for Cadash, I saw it fairly often at differnet arcades & pizza places etc., so I sucked at it, but I played it often!

The local mall was next to the library (and police station, city services) and when I was a kid I'd get my mom to drop me off at the library, then I'd go over to the mall and spend all day at TILT playing games from the funds I saved not buying lunch at school.

Edit: the forum format hates me, I'm done trying to fix the formatting

Strider77 · 03/01/2017, 03:25 PM

QuoteIs the Sega 16-bit wonder truly that feeble in comparison to OBEY?

I know the answer is yes, but I just like poking the FEKA Bear...

Strider... ARCADE CARD... never forget.

bob · 03/01/2017, 03:27 PM

Quote from: Strider77 on 03/01/2017, 03:25 PM
QuoteIs the Sega 16-bit wonder truly that feeble in comparison to OBEY?

I know the answer is yes, but I just like poking the FEKA Bear...
Strider... ARCADE CARD... never forget.

never forget what a horrible version? we won't, don't worry.

CGQuarterly · 03/01/2017, 04:38 PM

Quote from: NoSexGex on 02/13/2017, 06:56 PMAnyone ever make any serious progress with the wizard?

Strider77 · 03/01/2017, 04:52 PM

Quotenever forget what a horrible version? we won't, don't worry.

Good

CrackTiger · 03/01/2017, 05:31 PM

Quote from: Strider77 on 03/01/2017, 03:25 PM
QuoteIs the Sega 16-bit wonder truly that feeble in comparison to OBEY?

I know the answer is yes, but I just like poking the FEKA Bear...
Strider... ARCADE CARD... never forget.

Double Dragon II... MEGA DRIVE... never forget.

Psycho Punch · 03/01/2017, 07:24 PM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 03/01/2017, 05:31 PM
Quote from: Strider77 on 03/01/2017, 03:25 PM
QuoteIs the Sega 16-bit wonder truly that feeble in comparison to OBEY?

I know the answer is yes, but I just like poking the FEKA Bear...
Strider... ARCADE CARD... never forget.
Double Dragon II... MEGA DRIVE... never forget.

this image never felt more appropriate

/GeymEHd.jpg

NoSexGex · 03/01/2017, 07:41 PM

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 03/01/2017, 04:38 PM
Quote from: NoSexGex on 02/13/2017, 06:56 PMAnyone ever make any serious progress with the wizard?

Definitely watching when i'm home

Asmikace · 03/02/2017, 09:33 PM

On the subject of Taito games, I felt most of there games on the Genesis were underwhelming. Kind of a shame since they made some amazing games for the NES but could do the same afterwards.

NoSexGex · 03/08/2017, 12:13 AM

Quote from: CGQuarterly on 03/01/2017, 04:38 PM
Quote from: NoSexGex on 02/13/2017, 06:56 PMAnyone ever make any serious progress with the wizard?

Damn I totally forgot about this channel, I remember watching some videos forever ago with that beautiful HuCard in the background.

I'll definitely give the wizard another shot. I might have had a preconceived opinion after watching some reviews/ my own experiences being flustered by the magic system and just writing the wizard off. Even spida1a can't play through with the wizard, but i'm sure it just takes getting used to.

EmperorIng · 03/08/2017, 12:32 AM

Never watched a full play of the PC Engine version, personally. Man. That Baarogue fight is pathetic. That guy takes everything you've got in the arcade, and grows a second head to double-team you and your puny elixir. The port looks like a cakewalk in comparison.

Shame on Working Designs for that lame Carl Sagan name-drop.

esteban · 03/08/2017, 09:34 AM

Quote from: EmperorIng on 03/08/2017, 12:32 AMNever watched a full play of the PC Engine version, personally. Man. That Baarogue fight is pathetic. That guy takes everything you've got in the arcade, and grows a second head to double-team you and your puny elixir. The port looks like a cakewalk in comparison.

Shame on Working Designs for that lame Carl Sagan name-drop.

No, the final boss isn't difficult, especially since most folks have done a little grinding, so it's not particularly challenging.

However, as long as you can confirm that the arcade final boss battle isn't just a quarter-munching excuse to extract money from the player, I'll trust your judgement. I know you said that the game, overall, seems pretty fair and doesn't exploit things too badly (quarter munching). However, I don't think I've actually beaten the arcade (not sure if I ever got to final boss), and I remember feeling that the Cadash arcade was pretty tough at points...and I wasn't sure if there was a "better" way to progress with taking significant damage.

Since I haven't really used MAME in 15+ years, I think I need to revisit a lot of these arcade games for a fresh analysis/comparison.

spenoza · 03/15/2017, 12:24 PM

While the TG-16 music for Cadash isn't great, neither was the arcade soundtrack. I have the feeling this was not one of their major priority titles.