Duo-R Audio error [Solved!]

that1crzywhtguy · 02/14/2017, 09:08 PM

Not having the best of luck over here again! Just got another Duo, this time an R, from yamatoku-classic, and this one (even though listed as tested) has issues too. The audio makes a tearing noise sometimes.

Here is a video of what it's doing:

Any ideas?
Thanks!

SignOfZeta · 02/14/2017, 10:38 PM

Wow. That is crazy. It sounds like the creaky door sample is being retriggered elsewhere in the game. Since that can only happen with this game I have to wonder what it does with other titles and of course if you are running CD-Rs or not.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/14/2017, 11:06 PM

That same sound actually pops up in other games as well. I am running CD-Rs currently, but ones that have worked on other duos with no problems.

SignOfZeta · 02/14/2017, 11:22 PM

What does a real game do?

that1crzywhtguy · 02/15/2017, 01:47 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 02/14/2017, 11:22 PMWhat does a real game do?

Tbh, I don't own any real CD titles.

That being said, both CD-R games I tried made the same exact funky sound. In gates of thunder, whenever you get hit, it makes that same god-awful screech.

esteban · 02/15/2017, 04:58 PM

Quote from: that1crzywhtguy on 02/14/2017, 09:08 PMNot having the best of luck over here again! Just got another Duo, this time an R, from yamatoku-classic, and this one (even though listed as tested) has issues too. The audio makes a tearing noise sometimes.

Here is a video of what it's doing:
Any ideas?
Thanks!

I know! It's an easy mistake to make: you must have accidentally turned on "Virtual Cushion" mode (in the options/settings), but you aren't using a Virtual Cushion, are you?

Problem solved.

SignOfZeta · 02/15/2017, 05:16 PM

It sounds like corrupted ADPCM sound then, especially if it doesn't affect HuCARDs. I asked about real CDs since it's not impossible that bad reads could cause this, although it's not likely.

As for what could cause this in a Duo R...I don't know. Does it have any mods or repairs or anything?

Try a game with no ADPCM sound in it. I don't know of any but I'm sure they exist, probably some garbage title, see if it still does it.

Also, it's Gate of Thunder, not Gates.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/16/2017, 12:27 AM

Quote from: esteban on 02/15/2017, 04:58 PMI know! It's an easy mistake to make: you must have accidentally turned on "Virtual Cushion" mode (in the options/settings), but you aren't using a Virtual Cushion, are you?

Problem solved.

I was wondering if someone would go there.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 02/15/2017, 05:16 PMIt sounds like corrupted ADPCM sound then, especially if it doesn't affect HuCARDs. I asked about real CDs since it's not impossible that bad reads could cause this, although it's not likely.

As for what could cause this in a Duo R...I don't know. Does it have any mods or repairs or anything?

Try a game with no ADPCM sound in it. I don't know of any but I'm sure they exist, probably some garbage title, see if it still does it.

No mods, it's stock. As far as a game with no ADPCM, I'm not sure. If someone has an idea, I'd be happy to try it out (I didn't even know what ADPCM was before your post, had to use Dr. Google).

I got this R super cheap, so I'd like to find a way to fix it, but if it's not something that can be done easily, I'll just file an ebay claim and ship it back.

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 02/15/2017, 05:16 PMAlso, it's Gate of Thunder, not Gates.

Lol, I actually mean Lords of Thunder anyway.

Keith Courage · 02/16/2017, 01:25 AM

I don't think monster lair uses any adpcm but I'm not 100% positive.

Also, Sometimes ADPCM sound can get f'ed up when a drive cannot read the CD very well. You might have burned some bad ISOs or your DUO-R hates the media you are using.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/16/2017, 02:25 AM

Quote from: Keith Courage on 02/16/2017, 01:25 AMI don't think monster lair uses any adpcm but I'm not 100% positive.

Also, Sometimes ADPCM sound can get f'ed up when a drive cannot read the CD very well. You might have burned some bad ISOs or your DUO-R hates the media you are using.

That's a good tip. I'll try to burn it in a few minutes, although I don't have that media anymore (I burned those ages ago). If it's reading funky, any chance this could be remedied with laser calibration? I don't know how to do it, but I could learn.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/16/2017, 03:17 AM

Okay. So I burned monster lair (and for the record, the CD-R I use these days is much better than the stuff I had laying around before). That weird audio issue is gone now, although if you look at this video:

you will notice that the main character sprite is distorted as hell. Also, sometimes the music would go away.

Assuming this means ADPCM is the cause of the fart sounds, is this fixable? As far as the music dropping out, that means the laser at least needs an adjustment, right?

Keith Courage · 02/16/2017, 04:33 AM

The character missing like that can sometimes be a hardware issue(maybe ram)? or once again not being able to read the CD correctly. Also, do you happen to have a CD system card lying around? Give one a test and see what happens.

I've seen glitches like this from the drive either needing a lens adjustment or the lens not being a fan of the type of media being used. Do you have any other brand of CD-R lying around to try out just to rule out that option? Also, if the lens does end up needing an adjustment typically turning the V102 pot counter clockwise slightly generally helps. Another possibility could even be a short in one of the lens wires as to why it's not loading everything perfectly.

The glitchy graphics is not adpcm related so there is a problem that is causing both the glitchy graphics and adpcm issues.

SignOfZeta · 02/16/2017, 10:51 AM

Yeah, read errors are still a strong possibility.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/16/2017, 03:26 PM

I tried a different brand of CD-R, and got the same results. I tried to tweak VR102 and looked for a short as well, no luck.

So, if it is something like ram that failed... Is this fixable/worth fixing?

Keith Courage · 02/16/2017, 06:23 PM

well, I've actually never seen the problems you're having where it's actually been a hardware malfunction so I'm not sure what part of the hardware could be at fault. Any time I've come across this problem it's been a lens reading issue. get ahold of thesteve and see what he thinks. this could just be caused by a bad Trace somewhere and not a faulty part.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/16/2017, 08:01 PM

Yeah, this whole issue is pretty dang strange. It sure would seem like it would be a lens reading issue, just strange that it's the same across different CD-Rs and that god awful fart noise, so weird!

I'm gonna write Steve, will report back if we ever figure it out.

thesteve · 02/17/2017, 05:22 AM

Bad address on pcm ram is possible, and has been seen a few times
Test with YS3
just let it loop and watch for scrambled frames
That game has no pcm, but uses the pcm ram as a buffer for some images

that1crzywhtguy · 02/17/2017, 12:19 PM

Quote from: thesteve on 02/17/2017, 05:22 AMBad address on pcm ram is possible, and has been seen a few times
Test with YS3
just let it loop and watch for scrambled frames
That game has no pcm, but uses the pcm ram as a buffer for some images

Bingo. Got some hugely scrambled frames.

Is that chip something that can be replaced, or does this mean this duo is toast?

thesteve · 02/17/2017, 01:35 PM

Could be a bad ram chip, bad D91317GD or open Trace
In most cases it's the trace

ChuChu Flamingo · 02/17/2017, 02:39 PM

I like how it made the creaking noise even more grating on Rondo.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/17/2017, 04:08 PM

Quote from: thesteve on 02/17/2017, 01:35 PMCould be a bad ram chip, bad D91317GD or open Trace
In most cases it's the trace

Well, if it's an open trace I imagine it's another cheap fix like the last duo, but if it's an IC, then it's not fixable without a donor console, yeah?

thesteve · 02/17/2017, 05:01 PM

Depending on which chip, I have the ram

that1crzywhtguy · 02/17/2017, 08:12 PM

Oh, nice. Okay, sounds like this one is heading over to you soon.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/18/2017, 04:16 AM

Check this out:

HD: Picture_20171018011014.jpg

Any chance this has anything to do with it? Right next to the hucard slot, some cracking. My suspicion is it's unrelated and probably not doing anything, but I don't know a lot.

thesteve · 02/18/2017, 08:25 PM

good chance of that being the issue

SignOfZeta · 02/18/2017, 08:52 PM

Dang, yeah, either way that isn't good.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/18/2017, 08:53 PM

Crack—mild or not—in the motherboard definitely isn't good, but wasn't sure how bad it was. It only appears right there, doesn't seem very deep, and I don't see anything on the other side... That being said, do you still think this is a good possibility to repair, or would you advise me just returning it (it was sold as "tested" and in working shape), as I'm sure I can get a full refund.

SignOfZeta · 02/19/2017, 01:23 AM

Personally, shipping things is more of a PITA than fixing this so I'd just keep it. If you aren't in that same situation then by all means return it.

The way I look at old game systems is that they are guaranteed to break and as a community we are the the ones keeping all pie plates spinning. If you don't fix it the next guy will, and that's if the thing doesn't get scrapped.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/19/2017, 03:14 AM

If I knew how to fix it, I would!

Unfortunately, I'm pretty damn good at soldering, and know basic multimeter stuff, but that's about where my skills end. I'm not terribly concerned about the pain of shipping it back to them, but I either ship it to steve, or back to them, so either way I'm shipping it somewhere.

I did get a great deal on the console, but I bought it to region mod and sell. Where I was weighing things is trying to factor in repair costs in my profit margin. As I said, I got it for very cheap, and they did offer me a partial refund for the issue...But, now that I see a crack in the board, I'm not convinced this will be cheap to repair (I hope it still might). What I don't want, is to end up with a console that's unrepairable, and no way to get my money back.

Unless Steve thinks this is still likely to be repaired fairly inexpensively (under $65ish bucks), I'm just gonna send it back to them.

Keith Courage · 02/19/2017, 07:36 AM

If nothing under the board looks cracked trace wise then the upper part there would be very easy to repair. Just scrape off some of the green coating with a small flat head screw driver or sand paper, then solder bridge across the cracks. Maybe post a picture here of what it looks like on the under side of the board as well.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/19/2017, 04:27 PM

I got out the DSLR and took a couple High-res shots of top and bottom.

4K: Duo-R Top.jpg
4K: Duo-R Bottom.jpg

I figured if it was just surface stuff it wouldn't be too hard to fix, but don't know how to tell... The bottom looks clean as far as I can tell, and I did go over top and bottom looking for any trace rot. I didn't see any, but I could have missed it.

Maybe I should just send it to steve... I guess I'm Mr. Indecisive on this one...

Keith Courage · 02/19/2017, 04:36 PM

yeah, the bottom doesn't look cracked which is weird. Guess you got lucky there. Since you have experience soldering you should be able to solder over those top cracks. might want to have a peak up the hu card slot to see how far that one crack goes.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/19/2017, 04:59 PM

Okay, doesn't go that far.

4K: 20170219_135609.jpg

Hmmm... Now I'm thinking this isn't part of the problem, or even much of a big deal at all. I tested for continuity on each side of the crack (just scratched a tiny bit of the enamel off to give a place for the multimeter contacts), and it's solid. Of course, not saying that shouldn't be something made more solid, but you get what I'm saying.

SignOfZeta · 02/19/2017, 05:12 PM

You have an intermittent fault. You have a PCB that you can *see* is cracked. No matter who does the work that should be the first thing to fix.

The fact that your meter shows continuity doesn't mean much. The problem is intermittent, so it probably passes a lot of checks. It runs mostly normal and except for that horrible noise, that's another thing it sorta does. Continuity testers don't replicate the normal conditions of a circuit.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/19/2017, 05:58 PM

I agree that the crack should be addressed, just figuring once I start making repairs I'm committing to keeping it and giving up my escape shoot (getting a full refund).

As far as the actual issue, it's not intermittent. It's repeatable and appears in the same ways everytime.

Keith Courage · 02/19/2017, 06:08 PM

Do the crack repair yourself. That way you can at least rule that out as a problem before sending it off to get fixed. Who knows, it might fix it.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/19/2017, 06:21 PM

I wasn't fearful of doing the crack repair myself, was more wanting to keep the return option available in the off chance it's not something repairable. That being said, I'm probably being overly fussy. Chances are that at least Steve can fix it, and it will probably be worth keeping.

Also, I doubt that they opened it before selling it anyway. There's no way they'd have to know that I attempted a repair and that it wasn't repaired in the past.

I'll do that simple repair and report back.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/19/2017, 07:17 PM

I fixed it!!!!! Really good advice to fix the crack yall! As I began to check it out in prep of repairing, I discovered a broken trace right next to C507 (it was the trace nearest that cap). While I was at it, I went ahead and sealed up the cracks too. Either way, this baby is working!

As always, really appreciate everyone's time and support.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/19/2017, 07:19 PM

Oh, and if anyone's wondering, here are some pics.

HD: Picture_20171519041520.jpg
HD: Picture_20171519041549.jpg

Keith Courage · 02/19/2017, 07:26 PM

EXCELLENT!

SignOfZeta · 02/19/2017, 09:35 PM

Cool!

that1crzywhtguy · 02/20/2017, 06:04 AM

Btw, thanks for suggesting Monster Lair. I never knew about this game, and it's pretty fun!

esteban · 02/20/2017, 10:15 AM

Quote from: that1crzywhtguy on 02/20/2017, 06:04 AMBtw, thanks for suggesting Monster Lair. I never knew about this game, and it's pretty fun!

It is truly an awesome game. And the 2-plays coop is friggin' great, as well.

that1crzywhtguy · 02/20/2017, 04:00 PM

I'm still lookin for a multitap that isn't totally price gouged, but I will definately check that out when I find one!

thesteve · 02/27/2017, 12:39 AM

i have taps
whats fair?

that1crzywhtguy · 02/27/2017, 01:05 AM

Seems like careful shopping can get ya one from japan for $16ish shipped. Guessing after fees that's like $12-13ish to the seller?

thesteve · 03/04/2017, 03:48 AM

well that is about what i have in them
so make me an offer (im assuming you want a white 5player)