Just got into the Wonderswan/Colour and wanna talk about it

[MobiusStripTech]

Whoa hold up. The intellivision had an amazing controller. Once you lost those inserts you had a bunch of buttons to choose from plus that sweet "d-pad". Using the controller was practically a game itself.

[MobiusStripTech]

Emulating handhelds is a goofy experience. If you aren't playing on the original console it's a totally different experience. You have to take into consideration that games were designed to work with the control setup for the handheld.

You have a 3ds, try playing a GBA game or even a nes game on it. It's goofy. It doesn't feel right because the controls are off. The NES d-pad and the 3ds d-pad are way different, plus the placement is wrong. Then you have those 4 buttons which are not laid out for playing older games not designed for them.

The biggest beef I have with emulation is that the control schemes are never right. You genuinely miss out on the experience and in some cases the games are practically unplayable.

You probably hate the n64 because it doesn't sound SNES enough but imagine trying to play a N64 game with a keyboard instead of the stupid trident controller. You can hate the trident all day but the games are designed around the quirks.

[SignOfZeta]

Which brings it all back to Wonderswan and the optional Wondercoin.

[Arkhan Asylum]

lol.

funfact: I would drop what I was doing to watch that girl go I GOT LION KING

and then I'd be like huuuuuuuu because the commercial was over and I never saw her again

[Arkhan Asylum]

OH also, holding an actual wonderswan is retarded.

Just throwing that out there.  I never liked hold those.   I dropped mine alot. 

[MobiusStripTech]

I think I want to go play Mortal Kombat on the original gameboy just so I can have the same experience as playing it on a Genesis...

[PukeSter]

You probably hate the n64 because it doesn't sound SNES enough but imagine trying to play a N64 game with a keyboard instead of the stupid trident controller. You can hate the trident all day but the games are designed around the quirks.

We at pcefx endorse the Nintendo 64. Gotta love dat sexy Ram expansion slot. 😩👌💦

Nothing better than some banjo kazooie, sin and punishment and wave race on a crisp winter night. Hell even mortal kombat 4 and conker are fun multiplayer games with my brother.

Get N or get the fuck out 👋

[nectarsis]

What you need to do is emulate a NGPC on a tiny LCD screen with the brightness set to 5%, smash one of your speakers with a hammer, and sit in direct sunlight.

I have to agree with the others that emulating these on a PC is about as unauthentic as you can get.   
When the FACT that PC emulation lacks the variables of real world system use Ark and others have listed definitely does not give an accurate benchmark (much less the weird obsession with the tech side that you are not even close to experiencing not playing on a system).

Having owned both they were damn fine systems for what they intended to do.  Enjoyable in spurts, some fun games and a lot of crap (though arguably a better ratio than the GB/GBC in a lot of ways).

[Arkhan Asylum]

We at pcefx endorse the Nintendo 64. Gotta love dat sexy Ram expansion slot. 😩👌💦

Nothing better than some banjo kazooie, sin and punishment and wave race on a crisp winter night. Hell even mortal kombat 4 and conker are fun multiplayer games with my brother.

Get N or get the fuck out 👋

The only thing we endorse about the N64 is laughing at it.

[Michirin9801]

If you think playing a handheld without ever holding said handheld in your hand isn't a less valid experience, you're kind of a dipshit.  Plain and simple.

It's great how you forego common sense to staunchly defend your basically nonsense stance on validity while still admitting its "unauthentic", lol.

I guess on the brightside, you can save tons of money on amusement parks by going and riding those virtual rollercoasters instead. 

As I said again and again, and will say as many times as I have to, what matters is the games, my experience was different, but it's still valid, because I've played the games and have something to say about them, and so I will!

As I said anyways, emulating isn't that big of a deal for the game aspect, but you completely misunderstand the handheld and it's experience without having touched the real ones.  You're playing a bunch of well-back-lit-crap on nice screens, with a controller you can choose yourself (or already like, on the DS).   

another good way to illustrate this is when people think emulating arcade games gives the same experience as being in an arcade.

There's an atmospheric effect that you're completely missing.  Sure, you're playing the game, but there's something missing.   You just don't realize it yet.

I'd laugh really hard if you get NGPC and Wonderswans and flip which you like more.  What sucks though, is having done these via emulation, you're going into the handheld experience with a bias view point.   Kind of a bummer.

I'm not playing these games to try and replicate a very specific experience, I'm playing them because I want to expand my horizons and play things that I hadn't before! This is a valid experience to be had, even if it's different from "what was intended" or "what you had"

I'm not trying to see inside your mind.  You're talking about appreciation with regards to things on things you haven't physically touched.  It's so backwards.  Do we need to start a GoFund me to get you a NGPC and Wonderswan so you can hold them and pet them, and see how they are? lol

Like no joke if I see one in my area cheap enough I will 100% buy the thing and mail you it.   I'd mail you mine if I hadn't sold it.  I kind of regret it sometimes. 

No need, I'll get it on my own when I can...

I'd play the SNES Street Fighters over the PCE one.  The PCE one isn't anything spectacular, lol.

I thought 3DS could do PS1 now. 

PS1 on the 3DS is too slow to be playable, and my 3DS isn't hacked, I'll hack it whenever Nintendo stops updating the system, I don't wanna risk bricking mine... Hopefully by the time I do it there will be a decent PCE emulator for it, I know there's already a lot of SNES and GBA support, not sure about Genesis but I'm not exactly desperate for it...
I can only emulate what's available for the original DS, and while there are emulators for more advanced stuff than the PCE on it, pretty much none of it is playable from my experience...

I've been using d-pads longer than you've been alive.  That doesn't mean I don't recognize the importance of a competent control stick.  The GBA's dpad sucks.  SPs was OK, but, really, for the motions of a fighting game, dpads have always sucked.   You and I can do it just fine because we've been at it forever, but it's far from optimal.  You'd be surprised how much more fluid a fighting game feels once you get used to the sticks.   I had to forcibly work at it and break d-pad intuition.  It was kinda worth it.

You just need to not use a garbage stick.  Most people say they hate using joysticks.  What they mean is, they hate using poverty garbage joysticks, and have never used a sweet one.  One day you're going to touch a sweet control stick and go "goddamn, this is sweet".

Even arcade sticks themselves suck when you're playing a gunked up one that isn't properly maintained. 

I understand and respect your opinion, but until I get to experience an arcade stick that's "not garbage" enough to convince me that joysticks are better than D-pads, I'll gladly pick a D-pad over an arcade stick...

You know what though?  It generally feels wrong.  Sometimes jarring even, to play handheld games not-on-a-handheld.  even super gameboy as a kid was weird sometimes.  You get this highcolor border surrounding a 4 color game.  It was kind of cool, but also kinda like "well is this really that much better?"

You're saying that because you're expecting to have this specific experience with handhelds that you're familiar with, but since I'm not expecting that, I don't have the same problem as you...
I can't say whether or not playing these games on emulators is better than the real thing, but I can say that I've played the games, and I've enjoyed what I played... I didn't need my screen to look a certain way or the buttons to feel a certain way to play a good game and have fun, and that's ultimately what I want from video games, to have fun, not to "recreate a very specific experience that someone else is imposing on me"

We shouldn't have to bringup/point out the "competitive fighting game" part.  It's implied.  You needing it spelled out shows that you aren't a hardcore fighting game person.  It's not like it's a bad thing. 

Competitive fighting game scenes are some of the finnickiest fucktards in gaming. 

The point isn't designing a game with 2/4/6/whatever buttons.   The point is that when games go from 6 to 2 or whatever, you've now changed the entire dynamic of a game.  People's expectations of a Street Fighter aren't met when the buttons and gameplay isn't consistent.  That's why handheld fighters sometimes suck/piss people off. 

and at the time, the NGPC having a nice stick was an actually-important-thing.  This was back in the time when you could still walk into this thing called an arcade, put money in a machine, and play a fighting game (with joysticks as they were intended) with other people.

Rolling into Aladdin's Castle to play Marvel vs. Capcom on an actual machine was a great time.  The Dreamcast version is fucking great, but yknow what?  The Dreamcast controller's D-Pad fucking sucks a huge penis when you try to play it on there.   
The joystick matters.

If porting a 6 button game to a 4 button or a 2 button doesn't work, that's when you redesign the game to fit a 4 button or a 2 button control scheme! It is going to be consistent if the controller motions do what you're expecting them to do, and on the GBA, Wonderswan, and even NGPC, they do!

What I don't understand is this double-standard you have about saying that handheld fighters suck because they have fewer buttons but excusing the NGPC because it had a mini arcade stick on it, even though it still has fewer buttons, even fewer still than the GBA...

Also, """hardcore""" fighting gamers aren't gonna bother with handheld versions!!
These versions aren't for them, they're for people like me, who enjoy playing fighting games and wanna play some while out and about... Arguing that handheld fighters are bad because hardcore fighting gamers don't wanna play them is basically pointless, there's nothing you can tell them to convince them to play anything that isn't gonna be on the next EVO, they're not gonna care...
Handheld fighters should be first and foremost fun to play, no need to pander to the hardcore demographic that isn't gonna bother with them... If these handheld fighters are good games on their own accord, I'm going to play them! Even if there are "better" versions that I could be playing instead...

Also, the controller only matters if you don't like it, if you do like what you're using, and I sure as hell like using the GBA SP for controlling my games, then no, it doesn't matter...

Put it short, how many buttons you have isn't important, Game Design is important!

Kind of.  1 button joystick setups suck and hamper game design. Saying "game design is important!" is such a copout with regards to shit control schemes.  Sometimes, controllers just suck.   See: Intellivision.   No amount of game design saves you from having to put up with that stupid shit.

1 button joysticks are definitely a pain to work with and design something around... But if you manage to make something that only uses 1 directional and 1 button, and it feels good and is fun to play, I'll be impressed! Which is why Shadow Fighter impresses me, I'm not gonna say that it's on-par with the other fighters of the time, but I don't think it's bad at all... You don't like it? Sure whatever, but I think it's pretty alright, I've certainly played worse fighters, and those did have more buttons...

Don't you have like a PS3 or something?  You can play online.  I can't promise that it will be fun, though.   It's a completely different game when you're playing with someone else. 

Nope! Just the 3DS... I can play Super Street Fighter IV online on it though...
I think you can't play online on the Wii anymore, but even if it could, who the hell is playing Tatsunoko vs. Capcom anymore? (I sure as hell wish I was)

[ccovell]

[Arkhan Asylum]

As I said again and again, and will say as many times as I have to, what matters is the games, my experience was different, but it's still valid, because I've played the games and have something to say about them, and so I will!

Yeah, so remember how I said it's clear you don't care about the machine, and care about the games, and you said:

and you can't tell me how much I can or cannot appreciate something, or how interested in it I am, because you can't see inside of my mind, and by trying to do that you make an arse of yourself...

lol.
 

I'm not playing these games to try and replicate a very specific experience, I'm playing them because I want to expand my horizons and play things that I hadn't before! This is a valid experience to be had, even if it's different from "what was intended" or "what you had"

Your horizons aren't truly expanded until you play these things the right way.  It's just a cut/dry fact.  No amount of enthusiasm will change this.  Right now, you're having a valid invalid experience.

I can only emulate what's available for the original DS, and while there are emulators for more advanced stuff than the PCE on it, pretty much none of it is playable from my experience...

Don't you own a PSP?

I understand and respect your opinion, but until I get to experience an arcade stick that's "not garbage" enough to convince me that joysticks are better than D-pads, I'll gladly pick a D-pad over an arcade stick...

Joysticks aren't better than dpads always.  Only sometimes.  You have to use the right tool for the job. 

You're saying that because you're expecting to have this specific experience with handhelds that you're familiar with, but since I'm not expecting that, I don't have the same problem as you...
I can't say whether or not playing these games on emulators is better than the real thing, but I can say that I've played the games, and I've enjoyed what I played... I didn't need my screen to look a certain way or the buttons to feel a certain way to play a good game and have fun, and that's ultimately what I want from video games, to have fun, not to "recreate a very specific experience that someone else is imposing on me"

You are missing out.  There are atmospheric things about video games that you are completely hosing yourself from experiencing, all because you've convinced yourself all that matters is the games themselves.   This is one of those times where having access to everything via emulation is a bad thing.

I can't make you go seek out an arcade experience, or spend some quality time with a now-retarded handheld.  But, for someone whos all about broadening horizons, I'd expect that you would want to. 

If porting a 6 button game to a 4 button or a 2 button doesn't work, that's when you redesign the game to fit a 4 button or a 2 button control scheme! It is going to be consistent if the controller motions do what you're expecting them to do, and on the GBA, Wonderswan, and even NGPC, they do!

Yes, and redesigning the game changes the game from the expected setup, and often sucks.  So when you're dealing with a changed game AND a probably shitty dpad, it can suck doubly.  Especially in HandheldLand(TM) where you can't change the controller.

What I don't understand is this double-standard you have about saying that handheld fighters suck because they have fewer buttons but excusing the NGPC because it had a mini arcade stick on it, even though it still has fewer buttons, even fewer still than the GBA...

Its not a double standard.  You just don't understand.

It gets a pass because at the time, it was fantastic. It was redone properly to give a competent experience as a handheld.  The control matters.  Comparing the fighters on NGPC and Wonderswan in an emulator is dumb.  You like the Wonderswan ones more because they look/sound more like what you want in an emulated environment.   This again reiterates the point being made that playing them on the actual handhelds is something you should experience.

You are basically playing all this stuff in an unintended fashion.  The only new life you breathe into it as a result, is a biased opinion on how you feel about games and their specs in a way they weren't even planned to be experienced in, lol.

The GBA came after the NGPC was discontinued.  The GBA ones are at least sort of OK, but still not that great and arguably less enjoyable because they are trying too hard to be better than a handheld is actually allowing them to be.   So you end up with this strange ass hybrid game that looks OK (except it's on a GBA so it's still washed out and you can't see a goddamn thing unless you're on an SP, or a Cube player).

The correct comparison would be to use Gameboy/GB Color games, and those Street Fighter/MKs/etc. games are all complete horseshit.  The only reason you played those ever is because you didn't buy a NGPC, and didn't want to be seen with a fuckin Tiger handheld in public.

In the case of the NGPC and Wonderswan fighters, they were both dialed down to handheld land fine.  Where Wonderswan falls apart though, is it's controls suck by comparison to it's direct competition. 

Again, this is why the NGPC was awesome.   The best handheld fighting you're going to get is the NGPC/Wonderswan stuff.  The best handheld experience you're actually going to get, is the NGPC one.

(Note: I say this WRT to fighting games.  Outside of fighting games, neither machine is better than the other except for at the time, you had to import a Wonderswan, so you weren't playing that shit probably)

The best emulated/not intended experience is going to be whichever one has characteristics you like.

Also, """hardcore""" fighting gamers aren't gonna bother with handheld versions!!

lol, you say this with idiotic confidence, considering you just had to have the whole "hardcore fighting game" thing explained to you like 45 seconds ago.

Back in the day, hardcore fighting gamers were indeed playing NGPCs.  Between rounds at the arcade/waiting for their turns, people were playing.  At school, playing.   Road trips, playing.   When you want to keep playing fighting games but you're not at an arcade, or not around your home version.. you were playing these.

These versions aren't for them, they're for people like me, who enjoy playing fighting games and wanna play some while out and about... Arguing that handheld fighters are bad because hardcore fighting gamers don't wanna play them is basically pointless, there's nothing you can tell them to convince them to play anything that isn't gonna be on the next EVO, they're not gonna care...
Handheld fighters should be first and foremost fun to play, no need to pander to the hardcore demographic that isn't gonna bother with them... If these handheld fighters are good games on their own accord, I'm going to play them! Even if there are "better" versions that I could be playing instead...

Actually, ...they were for them.   They were for everyone.   You're now acting like they made these handheld versions specifically for people who want to play watered down shit.   They also didn't make them for people like you, because people like you mostly just emulate handhelds and aren't even playing them as intended... ;)

Nobody is saying fighting games on handhelds are bad because hardcore people don't want to play them.  They're bad because they're often bad for various control reasons that you have the fortunate privilege of never having to actually deal with.

The GBA is sort of excused with it's MK / SF ports.  The Gameboy/GBC is not.  That stuff sucked.  Killer Instinct on Gameboy is a great way to regret buying something.

Also, the controller only matters if you don't like it, if you do like what you're using, and I sure as hell like using the GBA SP for controlling my games, then no, it doesn't matter...

You don't know what you're missing. 

1 button joysticks are definitely a pain to work with and design something around... But if you manage to make something that only uses 1 directional and 1 button, and it feels good and is fun to play, I'll be impressed! Which is why Shadow Fighter impresses me, I'm not gonna say that it's on-par with the other fighters of the time, but I don't think it's bad at all... You don't like it? Sure whatever, but I think it's pretty alright, I've certainly played worse fighters, and those did have more buttons...

So, Shadow Fighter won the special olympics.  Cool.  it's still retarded.

[CrackTiger]

Emulating handhelds is a goofy experience. If you aren't playing on the original console it's a totally different experience. You have to take into consideration that games were designed to work with the control setup for the handheld.

You have a 3ds, try playing a GBA game or even a nes game on it. It's goofy. It doesn't feel right because the controls are off. The NES d-pad and the 3ds d-pad are way different, plus the placement is wrong. Then you have those 4 buttons which are not laid out for playing older games not designed for them.

The biggest beef I have with emulation is that the control schemes are never right. You genuinely miss out on the experience and in some cases the games are practically unplayable.

You probably hate the n64 because it doesn't sound SNES enough but imagine trying to play a N64 game with a keyboard instead of the stupid trident controller. You can hate the trident all day but the games are designed around the quirks.

N64 games play better with alternate controllers. So many N64 games were also designed for PC or other consoles and N64 versions simply have a set of commands mapoed to the number of buttons.

[Arkhan Asylum]

N64 games play best when you don't play them at all.

[MobiusStripTech]

Emulating handhelds is a goofy experience. If you aren't playing on the original console it's a totally different experience. You have to take into consideration that games were designed to work with the control setup for the handheld.

You have a 3ds, try playing a GBA game or even a nes game on it. It's goofy. It doesn't feel right because the controls are off. The NES d-pad and the 3ds d-pad are way different, plus the placement is wrong. Then you have those 4 buttons which are not laid out for playing older games not designed for them.

The biggest beef I have with emulation is that the control schemes are never right. You genuinely miss out on the experience and in some cases the games are practically unplayable.

You probably hate the n64 because it doesn't sound SNES enough but imagine trying to play a N64 game with a keyboard instead of the stupid trident controller. You can hate the trident all day but the games are designed around the quirks.

N64 games play better with alternate controllers. So many N64 games were also designed for PC or other consoles and N64 versions simply have a set of commands mapoed to the number of buttons.

I would have to disagree in most cases. As an example, playing Ocarina of Time is goony when you have to use the C buttons and you are trying to do so with a Gamecube C-Stick or the 3DS screen. That's not to say all the alternate pads were bad. The Mako Pad, which was an aftermarket normal shaped N64 controller was vastly superior to the trident.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Tony Hawk 2 on N64 was really great if you played it on Playstation instead.   You use the PS controller, and can actually do things.

[PukeSter]

N64 games play better with alternate controllers. So many N64 games were also designed for PC or other consoles and N64 versions simply have a set of commands mapoed to the number of buttons.

It's a shame a lot of the alternate n64 controllers are nothing special. Even the Hori pad has some issues, because the dpad is in the middle of the controller and the R and Z buttons are the same shape.

A new 3rd party controller has been in the works for a few months, and should be out in December or January. It looks extremely promising, as long as the build quality is solid.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1247448559/next-gen-n64-nintendo-64-controller

N64 games play best when you don't play them at all.

You're missing out Ark! The more you play, the more of that white stick powder you make for the dealers and clubs.

If the n64 didn't have the best 1st/2nd party out of any nintendo console (arguably), I wouldn't play it often. Thankfully a bunch of genre-defining games on the system still hold up today. Probably the only "top tier exclusive" I really don't like is Banjo Tooie. Kind of a mixed bag.

There's some solid 3rd party stuff from Midway, Hudson, Treasure and Konami. Hell, I think even Zeta has a lot of respect for Super Robot Wars 64

I should take a photo of my library sometime. Unfortunately I'm missing games like Conker and Majora, which I had long ago.

[Arkhan Asylum]

My N64 library is Mischief Makers, Jizz Fart Gemini, Castlevania because I'm retarded, and a bunch of 2$ crap

Oh and Zelda.

I haven't touched any of it in years. 


The C buttons are garbage.

[MobiusStripTech]

I backed that retro fighters controller. Just hoping the analog stick isn't complete shit.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I aint backing anything that uses the word retro already incorrectly, for a fuckin n64.

Morons.

[turboswimbz]

I aint backing anything that uses the word retro already incorrectly, for a fuckin n64.

Morons.

Just be glad it didn't have some form of Super Smash on there

[CrackTiger]

I aint backing anything that uses the word retro already incorrectly, for a fuckin n64.

Morons.

The company name is Retro Fighters and they decorate their online stuff with NES Mega Man sprites altered to look like fighting game characters. I'm guessing that they previously did NES hacks.

[SignOfZeta]

The games are more important than the hardware, I admit. However when the games and hardware were designed together to do something no other hardware can, then it becomes impossible to separate the two.

If your girlfriend's vibrator had a Tetris clone built into it (Tetrixxx?) and you dump the ROM into your phone and play it in an emulator do NOT expect your girlfriend to agree that you've had the same experience with Terrixxx. Tetrixxx *requires* the controller.

The same goes for Steel Battalion, DDR, Duck Hunt, and any game originality shackled to a handhad with unique physical properties, such as the Neo Geo Pocket.

I own multiple PCE systems and I've played the games in modern emulators and to be the experience is never the same. It can be very very close though, sometimes better.

I own multiple Neo Geo Pocket and Wonderswan systems and I've played the games in modern emulators and IMO the experience is just nothing even close. With GBA you're pretty much there but not with earlier stuff.

[Arkhan Asylum]

That doesn't make it correct. 

NES megaman sprites aren't retro.

They're vintage.

[SignOfZeta]

Now MM sprites jacked and remixed? That's as Retro as Retro gets. Deep down and dirty mongrel-ass Retro.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Now MM sprites jacked and remixed? That's as Retro as Retro gets. Deep down and dirty mongrel-ass Retro. 

retro^3

[PukeSter]

Now MM sprites jacked and remixed? That's as Retro as Retro gets. Deep down and dirty mongrel-ass Retro. 

retro^3

retro^64!!!!!

Gotta love how dozens of games had the 64 moniker. Duke Nukem 64, Bomberman 64, Wave Race 64, Mega Man 64, etc...



Doom 64 is such a beast game! Love the survival horror atmosphere they added to it, I almost shit my pants once or twice. 

Retro Fighters better have lots of colors available. A yellow controller would be sick

[SignOfZeta]

I can't express my enthusiasm for the N64 before it was released. I was SO on board for whatever Nintendo had in store for us. Then I sat around waiting 3-6 months for every game while the other systems had more good games see release in a month than the N64 had in a year and...traded it for a Saturn and never ever looked back.

The food was bad, the portions small, the prices high. It sucked. N64.

[CrackTiger]

Now MM sprites jacked and remixed? That's as Retro as Retro gets. Deep down and dirty mongrel-ass Retro. 

retro^3

retro^64!!!!!

Gotta love how dozens of games had the 64 moniker. Duke Nukem 64, Bomberman 64, Wave Race 64, Mega Man 64, etc...



Doom 64 is such a beast game! Love the survival horror atmosphere they added to it, I almost shit my pants once or twice. 

Retro Fighters better have lots of colors available. A yellow controller would be sick

Here's what people voted for:


We wanted to announce the top colors, voted by all of you! Transparent colors seemed to be very popular! Here are the top 5 colors in order:

1. Solid Black 20.26%

2. Transparent Purple 13.55%

3. Transparent Green 8.30%

4. Transparent Blue 8.15%

5. Solid Gold 6.99%

We will do the top 2 colors, but we will also do our best to include the other colors as well. We have mentioned this before, but transparent colors require a whole new mold.




Leave it to Nintendo fans to ask for gold. All I can think of is the rubbed off spots like the silver Gamecube.

[SignOfZeta]

Ha, no shit. I've been doing my best to buy Nintendo hardware that wasn't purple or clear purple or gold and it turns out N64 kids love that shit. Yet another side affect of eating breakfast cereal for every meal of every day, which as we know, N64 fans do.

[PukeSter]

Black Tiger, what a waste! Gold is so tacky compared to regular yellow.

clear blue and green are decent. I think purple is okay but i would never pick it over those colors.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I can't express my enthusiasm for the N64 before it was released. I was SO on board for whatever Nintendo had in store for us. Then I sat around waiting 3-6 months for every game while the other systems had more good games see release in a month than the N64 had in a year and...traded it for a Saturn and never ever looked back.

The food was bad, the portions small, the prices high. It sucked. N64.

I was so pumped for the N64 as a kid when they started rolling out advertisements.   

I was like oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck.   

Me and my friends would basically piss ourselves talking about it at the lunch table.  "SIXTY FOUR BITS ITS GOING TO LOOK LIKE OUTERSPACE.  I HOPE IT DOESN'T BURN OUR HOUSE DOWN.   MAYBE WE WILL GET A SUPER METROID 2.   HOLYSHIT ZELDA"   

We were oblivious to Sony Playstation.   I only vaguely knew of Sony as a thing because my Aunt's CD player said Sony on it. 

For Xmas the one year I was like YEAH N64.  I NEED ME ONE OF THOSE.  SONY ? WHATS THAT.

I played Tekken and some other stuff at my aunt's.   "This is cool but Nintendo is cooler.  The CDs can't be that important otherwise Nintendo would use them too!".  ... deep down I knew Sega CD/TGCD stuff was onto something because of like, Lunar 2.  Deep down, my child self was kinda worried.   

Then I played Star Fox 64 at Sears and was like "... this is ... what this controller why grandma im confused at this thing, its OK I guess."   She was kind of sad because I wasn't too enthusiastic about Nintendo.    That was like the go-to thing.

and then I saw it.

I saw it.

FF7 was on Playstation, not on N64.

I'd seen the commercials, but didn't really process that it wasn't on a Nintendo machine.  I just assumed it was going to be on a Nintendo machine.

My brain was already trying to reason with itself to explain the gap between FF3 and FF7.

"Oh, Mystic Quest must be 4.  Or maybe it's 6, and the game boy games are 4 and 5 but wait there's too many on gameboy.  Maybe Adventure doesn't count.  Maybe Mystic Quest doesn't.  It's OK."

Boy, once I pieced that shit together.   That's how I discovered emulators and ROMs.  Playing the actual FF2 and FF3 on NES.

Anyway, I saw FF7 on display at Sears.  SONY PLAYSTATION all over the place.  Cloud standing there looking at me like a prettyboy piece of shit. 

Yeah kid.  You want this.  You want to see what this stupid building is I am staring at in the distance.    You're only 9, but Tifa's tits are going to make you feel stuff.   You're going to witness murder in 3D you little fuck.  TELL YOUR GRANDMA YOU WANT PLAYSTATION.  DON'T BE A BITCH.

I was holding a milkshake from dairy queen and squeezed it and gasped.   Shits leaking everywhere like Chunk in the opening of The Goonies.

"GRANDMA.  HOLY FUCK. I DONT KNOW WHAT SONY IS BUT NINTENDO IS GAY I WANT PLAYSTATION"

Grandma's cracking up while trying to yell at me.  Her coworkers (she worked at Sears, lol) were trying to not laugh, too.

For Xmas that year, I got a Playstation.  My dumbass friends all stuck to their guns and got N64s.

They fucked up.  You could see/hear it in their voices whenever they'd come over to play Playstation.  They'd try to be like WELL N64 HAS... UH.. TUROK AND IT HAS A TRIGGER
... I HAD TO BUY A MEMORY EXPANSION BECAUSE UH... ITS BETTER THAN PLAYSTATION SO.

We were stupid kids man.   but I was smart enough to not get a fucking N64.  I didn't squander my sweet Sears hookup Xmas present. 

My grandma used to get sweet deals.  She'd get dibs on layaways that people never came and picked up.   So it would count as open box, and she'd get an employee discount.

Sears is going out of business now, and maybe that's why, but fuck it.   She got a Sega Genesis in 1991 for 65% off, brand new.   

BTW: I got PS1 Xmas of 1997.   Slightly behind the curve there.   I was 9.  SNES/TG/Genesis were fine, sorta.  lol.

That was a magical fuckin time to be a cracked out kid looking for games.   FF7 was a year old and I traded in Kid Chameleon, Shaq Fu, and Risk for Genesis, and got FF7. 

I didn't get FF7 at Christmas, and was sort of disappointed, but only kind of.   It came with an FF7 demo in it.   My grandma was like "See if you like it before you buy it."

I didn't understand what a demo disc was. 

It was fucking brilliant.   That thing came with the FF7/Bushido Blade demo, and the other demo disc that had Fighting Force, Tomb Raider 2, Die Hard and a bunch of other shit on it to play.

Remember the demo cartridge compilations for N64 so you could sample all the ga..... oh.

lol.

That Christmas was like a coked out roller coaster ride anyways.   

That side of the family (my dads) came over for Xmas eve and we did shit at night, and then in the morning we went to my other side of the family's house.

I was that weird kid that opened small things first.  The big stuff waited.    The first thing I opened was Oddworld.    I kept seeing the commercial for it, and was fucking nuts for it. 

I was like "I don't have a Playstation... I can't play this."    My mom took it from me and goes oohhh sorry... that's for your aunt/uncle's Playstation we gave it to you by mistake.

Me being 9, I was too dumb to piece together anything and just believed them and got sad.   So I opened other stuff.  Literally remember nothing because I was about to kick the tree out the goddamn window. 

and then I open the last thing, and I didn't know what the hell it was at first because the PS1 box was red/gray/kind of plain until you ripped open and saw the top part.   

Once I realized what it was, I had a stroke basically.   Super amped up.  HOLY SHIT LETS PLAY THIS THING.   ---> Get told we'll hook it up in the morning ---> could not sleep.  Rolled around like a fish out of water.

In a twilighty daze at like 10am, my dad was like "hey retard" (yes, this is how we all communicated, lol), "lets go hook it up".

I shot up and did that thing where you stand up too fast and black out.   Faceplanted in the dining room, skidded, got called a retard again, and then we went and hooked that bitch up.

I popped in the FF7 demo and we all sat there like "Holy fuck that is 3D as fuck" and just stared at it.    It was great.

Playstation fucking ruled.   Jumping Flash, Tenchu, Metal Gear Solid.    My friends all fucking hated me.   I still go "dhruhdrdr QUEST 64. hduhrudrh" to my one friend to pick on him for being an idiot.

Ha, no shit. I've been doing my best to buy Nintendo hardware that wasn't purple or clear purple or gold and it turns out N64 kids love that shit. Yet another side affect of eating breakfast cereal for every meal of every day, which as we know, N64 fans do.

I always wanted a Watermelon N64 but never got one.  I just have a regular piece of shit one.

I once rode my bike to Funcoland to buy one because they claimed they had one.

I got there, they didn't have it, so I walked out with a Sega Saturn and Magic Knight Rayearth for a grand total of 60$.

Great things happen when you don't buy fucking N64.

[HuMan]

You sound like a really sad person.

The N64 is the fun machine.

Let it bring some fun back into your bitter and hardened corpse of a life.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I eventually picked up a Pikachu 64 on clearance at Toys R Us.  I knew there was a few games I wanted for it, but yeah, had fun with my PS1 & evenually got the Saturn as well.

[MobiusStripTech]

I got a Playstation on launch and loved every minute of it. I got the N64 on launch as well and only played Mario64. My Playstation still saw a ton more use than my n64 ever did. I don't hate n64. The 2 consoles are apples and oranges to me. If FF7 came out on N64 it would have been a completely garbage game guaranteed. Likewise Goldeneye on Playstation would have sucked too. Each one has it's own quirks and games that were good and bad. At the end of the day play the Wonderswan on real hardware and Mortal Kombat on portables sucks.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Why would Goldeneye have sucked on the Playstation?   

You sound like a really sad person.

The N64 is the fun machine.

Let it bring some fun back into your bitter and hardened corpse of a life.

Only a total dumbassed N64 lover would call me a sad person after an exciting christmas story about Playstation.

I rest my case.

[turboswimbz]

well If I've learned anything from a thread on the wonderswan it's this:

Great things happen when you don't buy a N64

That being said I have an N64 for sale . . .
Anyone?

[SignOfZeta]

Why would Goldeneye have sucked on the Playstation?   

You sound like a really sad person.

The N64 is the fun machine.

Let it bring some fun back into your bitter and hardened corpse of a life.

Only a total dumbassed N64 lover would call me a sad person after an exciting christmas story about Playstation.

I rest my case.

You don't love the thing he loves, you therefore must be sad.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Why would Goldeneye have sucked on the Playstation?   

You sound like a really sad person.

The N64 is the fun machine.

Let it bring some fun back into your bitter and hardened corpse of a life.

Only a total dumbassed N64 lover would call me a sad person after an exciting christmas story about Playstation.

I rest my case.

You don't love the thing he loves, you therefore must be rad.

fixed it.

[MobiusStripTech]

Main 2 reasons Goldeneye would have sucked on Playstation, load times and no built in 4 player support. Reasons why FF7 would have sucked on N64, because it's an N64 and it would have had some ridiculous gimmicky camera and would have needed to be on an obscene number of carts, plus crap music.

Reasons why all of these games would suck on the wonderswan? Because it's a wonderswan.

[Arkhan Asylum]

PLEASE INSERT CART 2.



I can see the 007 multiplayer argument, but, the game would have been better on PS1 if you had a multitap.   PS1 had good FPS games.  You just played them alone.

lol

Powerslave, Disruptor, and Tenka all peed all over N64

[DragonmasterDan]

It really is. The only downside is that they only offered terrible case colors after so many cool ones for the earlier systems.

Yeah, I wasn't too picky. The bundle that I got from another forum member here got me the original monochrome unit. A boxed but pink SwanColor and 10 games for 50.00. I spent about the same amount on the SwanCrystal itself, but it's well worth it if you actually want to be able to see games that are in color.

[Arkhan Asylum]

whys it always gotta be about color.

[SignOfZeta]

Both Goldeneye (a massively overrated game if there ever was one) and FFVII were very much designed for their systems. If the teams were flipped to work on the opposite machine they wouldn't designed those games that way in the first place. Once Square realized they could stream FMV into backgrounds THEN they got interested in hogging up three CDs. FFVI was one 32mbit cart and it was extremely well received. The reason the sucky sucky N64 has zero RPGs isn't because of the cart thing. It's because the thing was a stupid expensive PITA to dev for and RPG makers are (were) constantly trying to avoid that kind of shit since their games are inherently expensive already for reasons that have nothing to do with hardware. They don't need extra work, it doesn't pay off. The 16 bit devs still left moved their RPGs to PS (since it was actually out). When the N64 came out most of the genres that were so popular on SFC (RPGs, fighting, strategy, 2D platformers) went almost totally unrepresented on the new machine so anyone interested in making them for N64 would have to be the first and not a lot of people cared since Crusin' and KI and blurrybrown-ass Goldeneye were now a new segment.

Likewise the interest in four player split screen. It wasn't Goldeye that did this it was the N64. If they were making it for PS then it would probably never have been four player but it would have tons of streaming audio and video instead.

[Arkhan Asylum]

RPGs always cost a shitload.   Phantasy Star 2 was like 100$.

Cartridges sucked back then for large things.

Even something as goobered out as Beyond the Beyond is better than any RPG N64 would've ever managed, probably.

[Michirin9801]

As I said again and again, and will say as many times as I have to, what matters is the games, my experience was different, but it's still valid, because I've played the games and have something to say about them, and so I will!

Yeah, so remember how I said it's clear you don't care about the machine, and care about the games, and you said:

and you can't tell me how much I can or cannot appreciate something, or how interested in it I am, because you can't see inside of my mind, and by trying to do that you make an arse of yourself...

lol.

You missed the point entirely...
To me, playing the games is more important than replicating a certain experience, but even though I say that, I still want to have that experience, but having it is not as high in my priority list as getting to play the games, I'll get to it when I can, I'll tell you what I think when I get to have said experience, whether my perspective changes or not we'll see...

Your horizons aren't truly expanded until you play these things the right way.  It's just a cut/dry fact.  No amount of enthusiasm will change this.  Right now, you're having a valid invalid experience.

You also miss the point of the validity of my experience, I never even pretended to say that I was having the same experience as you, in fact, I made it clear long ago that I wasn't, you know how I said I wasn't having an authentic experience? Yes, I recognised that, from the very beginning...
But the point is that even though my experience wasn't the same, it was still a valid and worthwhile way of experiencing the games I did, there's no "one true way" of experiencing a game, you just fail to recognise that because you think in absolutes...

You are missing out.  There are atmospheric things about video games that you are completely hosing yourself from experiencing, all because you've convinced yourself all that matters is the games themselves.   This is one of those times where having access to everything via emulation is a bad thing.

Yes, I'm missing out on having the same experience you did, but I'm not missing out on playing the games, because I've played them...

Yes, and redesigning the game changes the game from the expected setup, and often sucks.  So when you're dealing with a changed game AND a probably shitty dpad, it can suck doubly.  Especially in HandheldLand(TM) where you can't change the controller.

Again, only if you do it wrong, and the GBA fighters did it right...

The correct comparison would be to use Gameboy/GB Color games, and those Street Fighter/MKs/etc. games are all complete horseshit.  The only reason you played those ever is because you didn't buy a NGPC, and didn't want to be seen with a fuckin Tiger handheld in public.

In the case of the NGPC and Wonderswan fighters, they were both dialed down to handheld land fine.  Where Wonderswan falls apart though, is it's controls suck by comparison to it's direct competition. 

Again, this is why the NGPC was awesome.   The best handheld fighting you're going to get is the NGPC/Wonderswan stuff.  The best handheld experience you're actually going to get, is the NGPC one.

(Note: I say this WRT to fighting games.  Outside of fighting games, neither machine is better than the other except for at the time, you had to import a Wonderswan, so you weren't playing that shit probably)

I only brought up the GBA fighters because someone else brought them up...
I never said the GBC/GB had better fighters than the NGPC, heck I even agree that it doesn't...
This whole discussion only started because I said I thought the NGPC was underwhelming, allow me to better explain what I meant:
The games themselves are perfectly fine, what I don't like about the system are its often bland colours in sprites, which btw, is a problem that someone who actually played on the real handheld also had:

Aside from the buttons, the only thing that ever bugged my about the NGPC fighters was that you generally had black, white, clear, and 1 accent color per sprite.

and the poor sound, which is by far my biggest gripe with the system and is something that's not gonna go away even if I play on the real thing...
But again, even if I do have these problems with the system, I still think the games are good! I just feel that these bland graphics and crappy sound makes the game feel like it's less than the sum of its parts... If you don't feel that way, that's perfectly fine, don't let my opinion take away from your enjoyment from the games or the system...

The reason why I brought up specs was to justify why I think NGPC games generally don't look any better than GBC games... I was talking about graphics, not about gameplay!
But the GB/GBC is always gonna have better sound because it can do more waveforms than just square waves...

lol, you say this with idiotic confidence, considering you just had to have the whole "hardcore fighting game" thing explained to you like 45 seconds ago.

Then tell me, why do you, or whoever you're in agreement with, can get away without spelling out stuff that you're implying, but I have to spell out everything that I mean?

The games are more important than the hardware, I admit. However when the games and hardware were designed together to do something no other hardware can, then it becomes impossible to separate the two.

I get why a game that was designed to be played on a specific system might be better enjoyed if played on the real thing, that said though, if you DO separate the two, and the game still holds up on its own, (like a lot of the Wonderswan stuff does) then hey ho! The game held up well over time, and that's a good thing!

[DragonmasterDan]

RPGs always cost a shitload.   Phantasy Star 2 was like 100$.

Cartridges sucked back then for large things.

Even something as goobered out as Beyond the Beyond is better than any RPG N64 would've ever managed, probably.

Ehh there are lots of nice 16-bit RPGs. It's very conceivable that something lacking cutscenes or voice acting could very easily be done with entirely 3D environments on the N64. Or simply a 2D RPG like many others that were still coming out on the Saturn and Playstation.

[Arkhan Asylum]

You missed the point entirely...

The irony.

You also miss the point of the validity of my experience, I never even pretended to say that I was having the same experience as you, in fact, I made it clear long ago that I wasn't, you know how I said I wasn't having an authentic experience? Yes, I recognised that, from the very beginning...
But the point is that even though my experience wasn't the same, it was still a valid and worthwhile way of experiencing the games I did, there's no "one true way" of experiencing a game, you just fail to recognise that because you think in absolutes...

I'm not thinking in absolutes.  I'm aware there's more than one way of experiencing a game.  I literally talked about the SuperGameboy and GBA player.

That's whole reason why we're having this discussion.

The point is, you want your unintended/undesigned experience to have just as much weight in a discussion because to YOU it's all about the games.  You're missing out on half of the experience.

You're a game-greedy emulator jockey at this point.  You have a completely different, semi-misguided understanding and appreciation of what you are playing.   Until you've played these things the correct way, all you have is your opinions of how you experienced games out of context.  That's it.   You're comparing emulator experiences of handhelds, free of the things that actually separated the handhelds, so all you can do is comment on music and visuals that don't even look like they're supposed to, or sound like they should.   

Hearing someone talk about appreciation of handheld games that they've not played on the handheld is dense.  You started this Wonderswan thread without thinking about what the thread is actually about.

The Wonderswan to everyone here but you, is this handheld doodad we all held and fucked around with at one point in our lives.   To you, it's a .exe you dropped a ROM onto.

Can you start to see where the whole "validity" thing is coming from?

Yes, you can compare the games and be like WELL SHOOT THIS ONES BLAND LOOKING

... on your backlit, scaled monitor.   Compared to a game that was originally black and white.   The comparisons are all goony.

Yes, I'm missing out on having the same experience you did, but I'm not missing out on playing the games, because I've played them...

*Incorrectly.

This whole discussion only started because I said I thought the NGPC was underwhelming, allow me to better explain what I meant:
The games themselves are perfectly fine, what I don't like about the system are its often bland colours in sprites, which btw, is a problem that someone who actually played on the real handheld also had

You literally should not say anything about "the system" until you've had one in your hands and played it.  Emulators don't count for commenting on a handheld.

Then tell me, why do you, or whoever you're in agreement with, can get away without spelling out stuff that you're implying, but I have to spell out everything that I mean?

We didn't imply anything.  You just didn't know what we were talking about.  We used an obvious term and you didn't understand it completely.  Instead, you took offense and went "REEEEEEEEE FIGHTING GAMESHMGLFLGFNTLNT."

If I'm in agreement with someone, of course they don't have to spell anything out. It's clear that I understood and agreed with them.  Duh? 

Lots of people I disagree with don't have to spell anything out either.  We just go back and forth arguing various points.

You on the other hand just leave stuff out/don't articulate your own points well, which leads to problems including disagreements that wouldn't be if you articulated a point better, sometimes you contradict yourself, and then wonder why you're being argued with.   Sometimes you're basically just delivering half-baked opinions with little consideration for how you're going to sound, because you're basically oblivious sometimes.

You have a lot to learn about gaming experiences, I think.   You're in an emulator bubble.  There's a whole side of gaming that's flown right by you. 

Go find an arcade.  Force yourself to put money in it and play things.   If you start to tell yourself "I can just download this and play it at home! IT ALL ABOUT THE GAMESSSS!", ask someone nearby to hit you in the face and then try again.

After you play some games, and regain feeling in your face, pull out a handheld that isn't backlit, and play that bastard right there in the arcade.   Bonus experience if you use a Tiger handheld.

You've become so accustomed to just gorging yourself on ROMs that I don't think you have an actual appreciation or understanding of *hardware* and their role in a gaming experience.  It's all ephemeral bullshit to you.

and before you pull some stupid argument like "oh this is a "back in my day" argument", just stop right there.

The validity of it still exists now.   Play Taiko Drum master at home on those dumb home controllers, and then go play it in an arcade or something.  Totally different.

Fighting games have a totally different experience in an arcade even today.  Most Rhythm games do too.  Even if you buy the home controller.

I get why a game that was designed to be played on a specific system might be better enjoyed if played on the real thing, that said though, if you DO separate the two, and the game still holds up on its own, (like a lot of the Wonderswan stuff does) then hey ho! The game held up well over time, and that's a good thing!

All of these games held up well over time.  The only way they wouldn't hold up is if you start comparing them to things you shouldn't be comparing them to.

Even stupid fucking Tiger handhelds are still fun to play.  I say this with confidence having just played a few of them yesterday.

Except for MegaMan 2.

Why the fuck does he have an ammo count on his regular cannon.


The Gauntlet tiger handheld is actually really cool.  So is marble madness. 

[Arkhan Asylum]

RPGs always cost a shitload.   Phantasy Star 2 was like 100$.

Cartridges sucked back then for large things.

Even something as goobered out as Beyond the Beyond is better than any RPG N64 would've ever managed, probably.

Ehh there are lots of nice 16-bit RPGs. It's very conceivable that something lacking cutscenes or voice acting could very easily be done with entirely 3D environments on the N64. Or simply a 2D RPG like many others that were still coming out on the Saturn and Playstation.

Yea, but a full 3D RPG on N64... how much would that have cost, and how would it have compared to a PS1 game that was cheaper, with more features?

A full 2D one would have been doable for sure, but then, how well would that have sold on the "OMFG 3D N64!!11123"?

[SignOfZeta]

RPGs always cost a shitload.   Phantasy Star 2 was like 100$.

Cartridges sucked back then for large things.

Even something as goobered out as Beyond the Beyond is better than any RPG N64 would've ever managed, probably.

That reminds me, FFVII cost like 4000 yen less than FFVI, I think. Devs like that too.

PS II was like $50. PSIV was $99.99 USD because Sega wanted to prove Americans don't like RPGs. The JP version was like 6800 yen I think, much cheaper, and by that point the Genesis market was bigger than JP Megadrive by a mile.

The highest price I ever saw on any other US cart RPG was Chrono Trigger at, I think, $82.99, which was EB. Nobody else charged that much for it that I saw.

[Edited for Clarity]