Super SD System 3

soop · 01/15/2018, 11:34 AM

Quote from: pixeljunkie on 01/15/2018, 12:49 AMIs the bonehead/nerd that got a refund from Terraonion on these boards?

I believe not.

Todd Gill · 01/15/2018, 01:50 PM

Received mine today.

Full review next week.

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CrackTiger · 01/15/2018, 02:15 PM

Just don't waste your time with Strider again.

Todd Gill · 01/15/2018, 02:20 PM

Quote from: guest on 01/15/2018, 02:15 PMJust don't waste your time with Strider again.

lol yeah. It's terribad.

CZroe · 01/15/2018, 03:27 PM

Quote from: ccovell on 01/15/2018, 07:59 AM
Quote from: CZroe on 01/14/2018, 08:23 PM
Quote from: Nexus7 on 01/10/2018, 04:10 PMI'm hoping someone implements a full TG-16/TG-CD via FPGA with HDMI out. That is how PCE/TG-16 will continue to live on outside of crappy emulators. PCE/TG-16 deserves to be properly preserved and FPGA is the best way to go.
They did. It's called UPPERGRAFX/UPEEGRAFX...
No, he means the entire system emulated on an FPGA, not anything that attaches to the rear of the PCE, as the UperGrafx does.

Incidentally, a guy named Ki has had a working FPGA implementation of the PCE for about 10 years now; he has just started taking another look at his project again. Hopefully that will bear fruit sooner than later.

Well, just to be clear, it is interfacing digitally and not just converting the RGB output so it should be as good as a full FPGA system in that respect (preserving the real hardware).

The HiDef NES has a lot in common with the Analog NT Mini since it has to use the FPGA to replicate the functions of the PPU and various audio chips where the NT mini pretty much just adds the NES CPU onto the FPGA too. Knowing how similar the NES and TG-16 hardware is, the UpperGrafx may work very similarly.

Here's hoping the Super NT will get TG-16/PCE support, though I doubt it since Kevtris had all his other FPGA cores ready years before the NT Mini.

CrackTiger · 01/15/2018, 04:19 PM

Real Hardware
FPGA
Real Hardware + FPGA

are all different things.

esteban · 01/15/2018, 05:29 PM

Quote from: broken on 01/15/2018, 01:50 PMReceived mine today.

Full review next week.

Goddamn.

God.

Damn.

CZroe · 01/15/2018, 06:53 PM

Quote from: guest on 01/15/2018, 04:19 PMReal Hardware
FPGA
Real Hardware + FPGA

are all different things.

...and I clearly understood that already...
...and had a related observation to share anyway.

Obviously, I'm speaking to how it suits nexus7's original, stated, desire (preservation) even without having the full system replicated in the FPGA. Is that so wrong?

I want a full FPGA implementation too. Hopefully we'll get that with the Super NT but, as I said earlier, there are reasons to doubt we'll get that any time soon... unless Kevtris has been as hard at work on that as he has been on replicating the SNES hardware on FPGA. Remember: it took him the better part of a decade (more?) to make all the cores that went into the NT Mini. Presumably, he's been working on the SNES core since before that even launched or shortly after. If it takes half as long to make a TG16/PCE core, I'd be happy, but it might be wishful thinking. If he can release a major new core every 6 months it could be a good way to keep sales growing but there aren't very many he can add, considering the choice of FPGA (maybe Genesis/Megadrive?).

Maybe a full TG16/PCE FPGA system will be the next trick for the guys behind UpperGrafx, but considering how poorly understood and received it is, they'd have to be really cautious about making one now if there is any chance that Kevtris might be doing it. They could get stuck with another hard sell.

Kavas · 01/15/2018, 08:57 PM

Hello,

I recently purchased a CoreGrafx II for this SSD3 attachment. It is my understanding that it outputs RGB, but does not fix the jailbar issues inherent in PCE consoles. Can someone confirm this is correct and maybe point me in the right direction (videos/faqs/advice) on how I can remedy this issue? Thanks!

seieienbu · 01/15/2018, 09:04 PM

The jailbar mod is pretty easy and very cheap. You just need to replace 2 capacitors on the main board of your PC Engine. If you're handy with a soldering iron, you may want to check out this thread here.

Todd Gill · 01/15/2018, 09:21 PM

I can confirm that jailbars are still present with the SSDS3 and you will need to do the internal jailbar fix to eliminate or reduce them.

tbone3969 · 01/15/2018, 09:24 PM

Hey Broken,

Can you play some Fatal Fury 2 and let us know how the shadows look under the characters in battle. They look weird on my RGB converter to HDMI on my LCD. Thanks.

TIA

CrackTiger · 01/15/2018, 09:46 PM

Quote from: tbone3969 on 01/15/2018, 09:24 PMHey Broken,

Can you play some Fatal Fury 2 and let us know how the shadows look under the characters in battle. They look weird on my RGB converter to HDMI on my LCD. Thanks.

TIA

I don't think it's avoidable with upscalers.

imparanoic · 01/15/2018, 11:05 PM

are the jail bars still present with xrgb series upscanner converters?

Todd Gill · 01/15/2018, 11:16 PM

Quote from: tbone3969 on 01/15/2018, 09:24 PMHey Broken,

Can you play some Fatal Fury 2 and let us know how the shadows look under the characters in battle. They look weird on my RGB converter to HDMI on my LCD. Thanks.

TIA

i.postimg.cc/KvPGXdmm/IMG-0350.jpg

It alternates flickering under each character. I use an OSSC up scan converter to drive the LED monitor.

Todd

Keith Courage · 01/16/2018, 02:44 AM

Quote from: imparanoic on 01/15/2018, 11:05 PMare the jail bars still present with xrgb series upscanner converters?

I assume they would be since this is something that some systems can put out if the jail bar fix is not performed inside the system. Not all systems suffer from jail bars. Meaning, I test every system I perform an RGB mod on first before adding the extra caps for the fix. The fix can actually make things worse if performed on a system that didn't have jail bars to begin with.

ClodBusted · 01/16/2018, 06:22 AM

Quote from: tbone3969 on 01/15/2018, 09:24 PM(...) some Fatal Fury 2 (...) how the shadows look under the characters in battle. They look weird on my RGB converter to HDMI on my LCD. (...)

Please watch this:

Johnpv · 01/19/2018, 06:31 PM

Over on the Shmups forums this thing is getting ripped on over RGB issues (it sounds like csync isn't working for a lot of people), and now audio buzzing. Anyone who has one here experience anything?

I did see they're working with Voultar, and getting a proper MD2 RGB csync cable from retrogamingcables.co.uk to help improve the product.

pixeljunkie · 01/19/2018, 07:04 PM

Not sure when mine will get here - but I will report back. Not too worried about it, honestly. I have a JP21 RGB cable for my Megadrive 2 I am anxious to test out. I'm aware of the dangers of early adopting, especially indie hardware.

MNKyDeth · 01/19/2018, 07:06 PM

Hopefully they can find better cables then retrogamingcables as they have issues in the normal composite TG16 cables they sell. Usually bad solder joints to ground.

I don't have one nor purchased one. So I don't know any overall issues. I am however curious if they balanced the RGB colors properly for accurate color output.

I would think moving to an 8pin din and wiring them up like the standard modders here do they would have plenty of quality scart type cables to choose from instead of megadrive cables.

CrackTiger · 01/19/2018, 07:15 PM

TEDs also cause too much "buzzing" and misc noise.

Having every game in one tiny package with faster loading and unlimited saves is already much more of a value than the asking price.

The RGB output is only a bonus.

mickcris · 01/19/2018, 07:20 PM

Yes, they should have just used a normal sized din and not bothered with c-sync as it doesn't look like the circuit they made works anyways. Using a genesis 2 cable has always been a bad idea due to the differences in the output voltage of the pc engine and genesis. Some people prefer it though for some reason.

They did botch the rgb part of this due to little to no research prior to making it. After some discussion over at the shmups forum, they added a 21 or 22 ohm resistor inside the system in series with the 75 ohms in the cable to make it be about 96 or 97 ohms to bring the voltage down to 0.7v. This makes it so there is an impedance mismatch (like the amps with the 100 ohm resistor i used to sell), but it should work fine. Although it looks like there are possibly still some issues besides the voltage that still need worked out.

Some people have reportedly already tried what proper built c-sync cables and they did not work. I dont think anyone so far has got a c-sync cable to work. Probably best just to use a composite video sync cable.

You should still be able to use an internal mod if you already have one installed.

MNKyDeth · 01/20/2018, 04:35 AM

I just read up on the overall situation on the other forums. Seems the product works but there are a few issues that can be worked around. Type of cables mostly....

The audio and video noise bleeding together would be my main concern and I hope they resolve that in a newer revision of the pcb. I am not sure if that is what is needed, just going off the information I read.

However it looks like they are trying to get it all worked out. I wish them the best of luck as I possibly want one of these down the road. But I'll wait and watch for a while to see how things pan out further.

Keith Courage · 01/20/2018, 05:48 PM

If I ever decide to buy one of these, I would plan to use a standard pc engine with it so I can have a S-video jack for use on my CRT. I don't like the look of RGB personally. Especially when used on a modern HD TV. Makes me feel like I'm playing on an emulator.

I don't think they will move away from a megadrive style RGB /av port. Too many people in parts of Europe love Sega. So it makes it more convenient for them to have cables that will work with it.

xcrement5x · 01/22/2018, 12:34 PM

Quote from: Keith Courage on 01/20/2018, 05:48 PMIf I ever decide to buy one of these, I would plan to use a standard pc engine with it so I can have a S-video jack for use on my CRT. I don't like the look of RGB personally. Especially when used on a modern HD TV. Makes me feel like I'm playing on an emulator.

I don't think they will move away from a megadrive style RGB /av port. Too many people in parts of Europe love Sega. So it makes it more convenient for them to have cables that will work with it.

Well, and the MD2 cable is pretty much a standard with all the pins you need for this devices compared to that of like an RGB modded Duo. There is no real standard there, you can put those top 3 pins in whatever order you want for the color lines and as long as they match for the input you are okay.

I do wonder though, if they did this because they didn't want to include a cable of their own making in the package (cost saving), or if they just figured most people would have MD 2 RGB cables.

GohanX · 01/22/2018, 01:20 PM

The video output is more of an afterthought, I think. The primary purpose is to be a ODE, and they knew that they needed to have at least audio output for proper sound. While you're doing that, you already have easy access to RGB and composite, so all you have to do is add a DIN and a few caps/resistors and you have a cool extra feature.

Unfortunately, it seems that there is a design flaw and the RGB output is pretty noisy. They're working on a fix. I haven't received mine yet to see for myself.

Gypsy · 01/25/2018, 10:15 AM

Turns out this thing is a total piece of shit. Hope no one here bought one...

xcrement5x · 01/25/2018, 10:23 AM

Quote from: Gypsy on 01/25/2018, 10:15 AMTurns out this thing is a total piece of shit. Hope no one here bought one...

I think that is it's kind of a stretch to call it a total piece of shit. It still handles CD images and emulates that excellently from what I've heard. The main complaints are in the RGB outputs too, so it's likely this is something that will be rectified in a later revision. Early adopters always take this risk with hardware, but I'm glad they're out there.

jperryss · 01/25/2018, 10:37 AM

Quote from: guest on 01/25/2018, 10:23 AMI think that is it's kind of a stretch to call it a total piece of shit. It still handles CD images and emulates that excellently from what I've heard. The main complaints are in the RGB outputs too, so it's likely this is something that will be rectified in a later revision. Early adopters always take this risk with hardware, but I'm glad they're out there.

And so far it looks like they're doing their best to make things right, even for the early adopters.

pixeljunkie · 01/25/2018, 11:06 AM

Quote from: Gypsy on 01/25/2018, 10:15 AMTurns out this thing is a total piece of shit. Hope no one here bought one...

hahahaha OK

Gypsy · 01/25/2018, 11:18 AM

Quote from: pixeljunkie on 01/25/2018, 11:06 AM
Quote from: Gypsy on 01/25/2018, 10:15 AMTurns out this thing is a total piece of shit. Hope no one here bought one...
hahahaha OK

Looks like complete ass, games glitch. But sure, it's great.

Quote from: guest on 01/25/2018, 10:23 AM
Quote from: Gypsy on 01/25/2018, 10:15 AMTurns out this thing is a total piece of shit. Hope no one here bought one...
I think that is it's kind of a stretch to call it a total piece of shit. It still handles CD images and emulates that excellently from what I've heard. The main complaints are in the RGB outputs too, so it's likely this is something that will be rectified in a later revision. Early adopters always take this risk with hardware, but I'm glad they're out there.

When you charge $350 some testing and making it properly is in order. Oversights and simple errors like these reek of incompetence at best. Seems like to me they rushed it it out, maybe they were too excited about it, or about making money.

It's good that they plan to fix it. However they shouldn't get any kind of free pass, they are selling a product, like any business/store and should be held accountable. So really they are doing the baseline acceptable thing after fucking up royally. If they hadn't, people should have hit them with paypal claims/cc chargebacks. Good thing that isn't needed now.

NecroPhile · 01/25/2018, 11:23 AM

Glitches, eh, and not just RGB issues? How bad are they and on how many games?

Gypsy · 01/25/2018, 11:24 AM

Quote from: guest on 01/25/2018, 11:23 AMGlitches, eh, and not just RGB issues? How bad are they and on how many games?

I'd like to see more testing on that end honestly.

The video issues are really bad.

Edit: To be clear, I want this thing to be good. I will eventually be buying one if they make it not suck.

CrackTiger · 01/25/2018, 11:30 AM

Quote from: Gypsy on 01/25/2018, 10:15 AMTurns out this thing is a total piece of shit. Hope no one here bought one...

Have you only read the shmups thread or something?

Gypsy · 01/25/2018, 11:31 AM

Quote from: guest on 01/25/2018, 11:30 AM
Quote from: Gypsy on 01/25/2018, 10:15 AMTurns out this thing is a total piece of shit. Hope no one here bought one...
Have you only read the shmups thread or something?

Read multiple threads and posts. Seen a lot of screen shots. Certainly I won't be buying one myself at this point to test.

VmprHntrD · 01/25/2018, 11:45 AM

If you'd bother to check out the official response posted at the Neo-Geo forums as Alex made an entire thread and breakdown on it with admission of guilt, break down of the issues, both picture and video evidence, appreciation and thanks given to the specific person with technical skill that got the breakthrough you'd see a few things.

It's not a piece of shit. It's technically not even broken exactly, unless you're into going through an RGB connector from the looks of it. They've not only used their own further research and that helpers, but have already corrected the problems, created a whole new updated PCB, and they've mailed that off to their hardware people who manufacture the boards. They'll have them in hand in February.

Any existing people with a unit can ship them back. They're already setting up bulk mailers in heavy buyer countries (USA has one already) to return for replacement. Furthermore until they get the boards and assemble them into shells all shipments are halted, any existing orders are on hold.

They've handled it like gentlemen and pros, no buck passing, no being a bitch about it, even admitting fault where it lies, where they failed to properly test on specific games (like Bonk 3 which showed it well), and what their financial losses are estimated into the 1000s of euros to do the recall and recreation.

I don't think the snark is warranted.

Gypsy · 01/25/2018, 11:52 AM

I did say they are handling it correctly, so good on them for that. I won't cry about them losing money though.

NecroPhile · 01/25/2018, 02:29 PM

No tears for me on him "losing money" either, not when the consumer has to eat shipping and disassemble/reassemble their system. Test your shit better, listen to others (the sync issue was known before shipping), and don't treat your paying customers as beta testers.

turboswimbz · 01/25/2018, 02:48 PM

Yup - Glad it's being handled well, hope everyone ends up happy

Nope - not going to say that criticism is warranted.

That being said I'm not going to call this a total shit failure either, I still hope to possibly pick one up when all the problems are resolved. I mean nothing is going to 100% perfect, the original damn systems weren't.

tszarathstra · 01/25/2018, 03:14 PM

Yipes, glad I bought that Everdrive before I knew about the Super SD system, then. I was seriously thinking about returning the ED (when it finally arrives) and getting one of those for the CD capabilities. I'll just stick with the ED for now.

imparanoic · 01/26/2018, 01:50 AM

so let me get this straight, if you have a modified rgb pc engine, then the super system 3 has problems with it, but if you have non modified pc engine, then super system 3 should have no problems with it, in RGB or composite mode.

MNKyDeth · 01/26/2018, 02:35 AM

Quote from: imparanoic on 01/26/2018, 01:50 AMso let me get this straight, if you have a modified rgb pc engine, then the super system 3 has problems with it, but if you have non modified pc engine, then super system 3 should have no problems with it, in RGB or composite mode.

Your assumption is incorrect.
The device it seems... Introduces noise into the audio and video signals. It will not matter if a system is already modded or not.

The other issue is the megadrive cables and the internal RGB mod they did does not have the proper caps/resistors to balance the video signal for proper color output. Also using a pure sync setup is causing issues as most displays prefer a composite sync signal for sync.

This is my take on it and I could be wrong.

ginoscope · 01/26/2018, 08:22 AM

This is all typical early adopter issues with new hardware. I didn't order one so I don't have no stake in any of this since I already have like 10 ways to play pc-engine games. I'm just saying if big companies can have hardware issues it is possible for a smaller company like this to have the same.

I learned my lesson being an early adopter of home theater gear that now I am very patient. I will probably get one of these or the GDEMU ode whenever that comes out.

toaks · 01/26/2018, 12:12 PM

For anyone that was hesitant on ordering a SSDS3, I would say go for it. The Terraonion team has proven themselves as a company, at least in my eyes. There were initial very minor problems with the Neosd when it was first released. The problems were fixed for EVERYBODY including the early adopters. The NeoSD is now 100% compatible.

As far as the SSDS3, the team immediately halted shipping units upon hearing of the problems. They have since released a statement apologizing for the mistake they made. They worked with some experts and revised the circuit boards to correct the video and audio issues. Those issues have been corrected. They have also basically recalled all currently released devices, and are replacing them to EVERYBODY. Any issues with games are being addressed in firmware so I fully expect the device will be 100% compatible over time with firmware updates.

This company has a great track record of correcting any issues that come up. They don't leave early adopters with faulty devices, they make sure the fix the problems for everyone. I have full confidence in the team. I have ordered both devices, and will continue to support them in the future. If they make a product you are interested in, order one with confidence. If a problem arises, they have proven they will do their best in correcting it and making every customer happy.

GohanX · 01/26/2018, 10:39 PM

I have one and it's great. Eat my dick.

esteban · 01/26/2018, 11:08 PM

*DiC eating commencing in 3... 2... 1....*

MNKyDeth · 01/26/2018, 11:13 PM

I do think they will be great. Just glad I waited.

I wasn't trying to bring down the console. Was only trying to describe the stuff that seems wrong or bad with it from my readings.

waiwainl · 01/27/2018, 10:45 AM

Quote from: guest on 01/25/2018, 02:29 PMNo tears for me on him "losing money" either, not when the consumer has to eat shipping and disassemble/reassemble their system. Test your shit better, listen to others (the sync issue was known before shipping), and don't treat your paying customers as beta testers.

^THAT^

Johnpv · 01/27/2018, 08:55 PM

Quote from: GohanX on 01/26/2018, 10:39 PMI have one and it's great. Eat my dick.

*looks at dick* I don't think this is going to feed everyone.

Medic_wheat · 01/27/2018, 10:35 PM

Quote from: Johnpv on 01/27/2018, 08:55 PM
Quote from: GohanX on 01/26/2018, 10:39 PMI have one and it's great. Eat my dick.
*looks at dick* I don't think this is going to feed everyone.

Like teacher said.

If you didn't bring enough for the whole class then no one can have any.

Granted what did she know. Always talking with her mouth full.