Ultimate 2D console

Keranu · 06/15/2007, 03:06 AM

Quote from: nat on 06/14/2007, 11:42 PMHave you played Zenki? Zenki kind of hinted at what the PCFX might be capable of graphics-wise in a 2D platformer environment. There are some shots in that game you'd swear were polygons (most likely pre-rendered stuff, but still nice) mixed with really nice "pixel art". I think had programmers pushed the system like they did the Turbo/PCE, we could've seen many things on par with what the PS1 and Saturn offered just as you suggest. Zenki and MegaMan X4, for example, are quite similar graphically.

I've played Zenki and while it does indeed look very nice, I still stand by my statement. As CrackTiger has posted before, Zenki looks a lot like a PCE game, except with some special effects like transparencies, FMV, etc... The colors and design themself though look really PCE-ish, not that it's a bad thing or anything, but Zenki probably had artists who have worked on PCE games. I think Zenki is just a small portion of what the PC-FX was capable of and I really hope to see further development for it so we can see some jaw dropping stuff.

GUTS · 06/15/2007, 03:45 PM

I've never played a Saturn with the MPEG card, but it seems like cheating to count that since it was an add-on. The regular cinepak and trumotion were pretty lame compared to the PCFX and Playstation's video (I think even the 3D0 could do better full screen playback), that has always been my only complaint about the Saturn. Play something like Solo Crisis on Saturn and be amazed at how bad FMV can look, which is totally weird because by the end of the Sega CD's life they were doing full-screen FMV that was only hampered by the Genesis's color palette, it seems like that tech would have carried over to the Saturn.

Seldane · 06/15/2007, 05:11 PM

I've never been a fan of in-game videos, at least not in older games (like PS1, etc), as the videos tend to look nothing like the actual game. I prefer the old-fashioned way: just the regular character sprites moving around automatically, talking, etc. or even PCE-esque picture-based "videos".

Joe Redifer · 06/15/2007, 06:42 PM

I don't understand why we're comparing FMV. Do you guys actually like that shit? Do you need medical attention?

Keranu · 06/15/2007, 07:01 PM

FMV is cool, but not important.

termis · 06/15/2007, 07:46 PM

^Agreed, by no means the most important thing, but better to have than not to have.

Or worse, to not have and keep on trying exploit it (aka Sega CD).

Seldane · 06/15/2007, 07:48 PM

So you're saying EVERY game should feature FMVs?

termis · 06/15/2007, 07:50 PM

Yup, that's what I mean - EVERY SINGLE one. If the game doesn't have FMV, it sucks balls

.

CrackTiger · 06/15/2007, 07:52 PM

Quote from: nat on 06/14/2007, 11:42 PMHave you played Zenki? Zenki kind of hinted at what the PCFX might be capable of graphics-wise in a 2D platformer environment. There are some shots in that game you'd swear were polygons (most likely pre-rendered stuff, but still nice) mixed with really nice "pixel art". I think had programmers pushed the system like they did the Turbo/PCE, we could've seen many things on par with what the PS1 and Saturn offered just as you suggest. Zenki and MegaMan X4, for example, are quite similar graphically.

Trouble is, the system died an early death and most of the programmers focused on exploiting the FMV qualities of the console in making digital comics instead of 2D platformers or shooters.

Most of the graphics in Zenki FX look like PC Engine graphics. Like they were even using the PCE's pallete(kinda like the PCE'ish graphics in Kakutoden).

I think that a very similar looking port could've been made for PCE or that the PC-FX game may very well be a scrapped PCE game ported to PC-FX.

Of course, if you judge graphics not by the actual, you know, graphics, instead by layers like many people do, then Zenki FX is more of a Genesis game.

Quote from: thumpin_termis on 06/14/2007, 11:55 PMWell, I thought Saturn FMV using TrueMotion (Fighters Megamix, Virtual On, Last Bronx) didn't look half bad. Too bad this wasn't used for most of their games.

Cinepak, on the other hand, was really quite horrible -- though there were a couple exceptions (Enemy Zero and Eve Series games). I recall being pretty damn amazed by Playstation FMV after after having only played the Saturn for so long.

It really depends on the developer. Tengai Makyo IV uses Cinepak and its some of the very best quality fmv on PSX or Saturn(and its full screen).

Keranu · 06/15/2007, 08:14 PM

It would be a lot of fun to see any PC-FX game ported to PCE, though FMV-based ones like Battle Heat would be tricky.

Kitsunexus · 06/15/2007, 11:23 PM

FMV, if done right (and not every 4 seconds), can be enjoyable as a means of conveying a story.

It is not, however, an enjoyable means of conveying gameplay.

I also believe that Battle Heat could very well be ported to PCE. My proof lies in the Gameboy Color version of Dragon's Lair. This is not the sucky platform game, this is the actual arcade game, each frame converted to sprites, and it is playable on the GBC. Find the ROM, it's very interesting.

termis · 06/16/2007, 02:17 PM

Quote from: Keranu on 06/15/2007, 08:14 PMIt would be a lot of fun to see any PC-FX game ported to PCE, though FMV-based ones like Battle Heat would be tricky.

No idea what Battle Heat on the FX is, but if it needs FMV, the PC Engine has the amazing HuVideo which looks way better than the new generation of High Definition DVD formats!

nat · 06/16/2007, 02:19 PM

Battle Heat seems like a good idea on paper, but I find it's nearly impossible to play.

But there's also a small possibility that I'm simply retarded and can't figure out when to execute moves.

Keranu · 06/16/2007, 06:46 PM

Battle Heat is possible to play. I never got good at it, but once I figured some things out, it was pretty neat.

nat · 06/16/2007, 07:16 PM

So how do you do it? Please share your wisdom with me. I try to execute moves according to the manual but my character literally just sits there while the CPU delivers wallop after wallop. I get the feeling I'm not exectuing them at the right time or something. Do I have to wait for the FMV of my opponent to stop? That's generally what I do but I get the idea that's not a good strategy.

Keranu · 06/16/2007, 07:18 PM

I haven't played it in a long time, so I'd have to load it up again to see. Aaron Nanto has a movelist guide on his PC-FX site somewhere.

terrormask · 06/17/2007, 03:49 AM

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 06/14/2007, 09:50 AM
Quote from: terrormask on 06/14/2007, 06:01 AM
Quote from: Kitsunexus on 06/13/2007, 12:56 PMThey have some of those that run in the $200 - $400 range. They're not very good, they're just game-on-chip units wired up to a subpar arcade cabinet.

It's like, if you WANT a multi-arcade cabinet, go build a MAME cab or liberate a Nintendo Playchoice from some abandoned bowling alley.
It probably would cost equal to build a MAME cabinet and I did think about it a few times while back. I just don't know if I'm ready to put in hundreds of hours and dollars for something that I could rather just buy instead of building, then again, it would be better if I built it instead because then I have put in all the effort and my own imaginative customizations to it. Then I would truly have more a right to call it my own if I built it.
Plus if you build it, you'll have good emulation, not shit emulation.

New problem, I don't want to build an arcade game with a computer emulating it. Is it possible I could just build a arcade game machine using 100% authentic arcade parts? I've tried googling everywhere and only came across sites that tell you how to build arcade cabinets using shit like MAME.

Turbo D · 06/17/2007, 04:04 AM

Its very possible. Just get an old arcade, convert the monitor connector to plug in to your computer. Then get x arcade joystick or keyboard button mapper to connect to the joystick and bottons. Then your all set. I've been working on an arcade project myself, but it is far from complete.

terrormask · 06/17/2007, 04:13 AM

I mean I don't want to use a computer to emulate the arcade. I want to build a cabinet with the screen, the joystick and buttons, the sound system and speakers, the power supply, the game program on big electronic board, and I don't know what else I may need because the only sites I can find only tell me how to do it the computer emulation way.

Kitsunexus · 06/17/2007, 12:21 PM

Oh, it's possible,but it'd be a bit difficult and expensive.

Here's a good place to buy parts:

http://www.quarterarcade.com/Browse.aspx?c=All.Parts

PCEngineHell · 06/17/2007, 01:21 PM

You will need a guide of some type for getting the wood cust. cut and you will have to put it all together. In cases like this I suggest building a bottom half and a top half. It would be easier to move then.

Joe Redifer · 06/17/2007, 01:25 PM

Wood? I thought most arcade cabs were made out of particle board. Only the best, y'know?

Seldane · 06/17/2007, 02:24 PM

Hey! Why do you guys turn every single thread into arcade threads?

Kitsunexus · 06/17/2007, 03:42 PM

Quote from: Seldane on 06/17/2007, 02:24 PMHey! Why do you guys turn every single thread into arcade threads?

Because the arcade is pwnage.

SignOfZeta · 06/17/2007, 09:26 PM

Quote from: terrormask on 06/17/2007, 04:13 AMI mean I don't want to use a computer to emulate the arcade. I want to build a cabinet with the screen, the joystick and buttons, the sound system and speakers, the power supply, the game program on big electronic board, and I don't know what else I may need because the only sites I can find only tell me how to do it the computer emulation way.

The reason why you only find DIYs for MAME cabinets is because if you wanted an arcade machine you can just buy one. Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems really really obvious to me.

Actual arcade machines are usually much simpler than MAME machines since virtually everything is build onto the PCBs. An arcade machine is just a power supply, some joysticks, and a monitor fitted into a moldy, rotted-out, rat's nest with a few deadly spiders thrown in. If you live in the US you can find arcade machines for sale cheap in almost every city.

If you want something a little more permanent, you should buy one of the fiberglass models from Japan like a NeoCady, or Sega Astro/Blast City, or whatever. They usually have much bigger monitors that you can rotate if you feel like going from fighters to shooters. My friend bought his Astro City on eBay for about $300. It was in California, and cost another $300 to ship it to Michigan via yellow freight. The cheaper route would be to buy an unwanted MVS, or Street Fighter machine or something, but chances are you'll end up replacing everything in it at a greater cost further down the road. The most expensive part is the monitor.

Turbo D · 06/17/2007, 09:31 PM

If you want to have a splatter house arcade, I would suggest buying a cheap jamma cabinet and finding the jamma board of splatter house and plugging it in. All jamma cabs and jamma boards should be compatible. I am assuming that a jamma board of splatter house exists tho. Sorry if any of this information is incorrect.

Kitsunexus · 06/18/2007, 12:01 AM

I heard D-Lite builds custom arcade cabinets...

terrormask · 06/18/2007, 12:16 AM

Quote from: turbo D on 06/17/2007, 09:31 PMIf you want to have a splatter house arcade, I would suggest buying a cheap jamma cabinet and finding the jamma board of splatter house and plugging it in. All jamma cabs and jamma boards should be compatible. I am assuming that a jamma board of splatter house exists tho. Sorry if any of this information is incorrect.

Maybe not necessarily a Splatterhouse game, although I have thought on it off and on. I also like Joust, Haunted Castle, Ghosts'n Goblins, Ghouls'n Ghosts, Gauntlet, Smash T.V.. However though, Splatterhouse would be an excellent first arcade game to get.

OldRover · 06/18/2007, 12:27 AM

Quote from: terrormask on 06/17/2007, 04:13 AMI mean I don't want to use a computer to emulate the arcade. I want to build a cabinet with the screen, the joystick and buttons, the sound system and speakers, the power supply, the game program on big electronic board, and I don't know what else I may need because the only sites I can find only tell me how to do it the computer emulation way.

For parts, try these two sites:

http://www.happcontrols.com/
https://www.electronix.com/catalog/

In order to develop your own arcade motherboard from scratch, you need knowledge in applied electronics, specifically in the area of microcomputers. If you can't do something even as simple as a 6502-6567 unit, you're in the wrong business.

PCEngineHell · 06/18/2007, 01:19 AM

Don't hold your breath on nabbing a Splatterhouse PCB. They rarely pop up on ebay,when they do they fetch over 100 bucks.

terrormask · 06/18/2007, 01:29 AM

If I see one come up, I'll pay as long as it's less than $300. And I don't think arcade game PCBs are that expensive but since Splatterhouse is a rare game, it's hard telling.

TR0N · 06/18/2007, 01:48 AM

Quote from: terrormask on 06/18/2007, 01:29 AMIf I see one come up, I'll pay as long as it's less than $300. And I don't think arcade game PCBs are that expensive but since Splatterhouse is a rare game, it's hard telling.

Sure is still try picking up, Splatter House for the FM Town Marty that also go's for a high price

Heck if i just had a supergun i go with the pcb of that instead.

Realy namco needs stop being so stubborn... and put the arcade version of splatter house in a collection.

terrormask · 06/18/2007, 03:56 AM

True, Namco needs to understand they done beat the Mortal Kombat competition with Tekken and get over it already. And quite being wimps on how the game might raise the ratings on a Namco Museum collections compilation because Midway put Mortal Kombat 2 and 3, and also Smash T.V. and Total carnage, and Narc on their Arcade Treasures collections. Every damn Namco Museum games they come out with always have the same games on them:Pac-man, Ms. Pac-man, Galaga, Galaxian, Pole Position, Dig-Dug. How about a change for once.

nat · 06/18/2007, 11:12 AM

Yeah, no kidding.

I have the Namco Museum on my Nintendo 64. Pole Position fucking rules.

Kitsunexus · 06/18/2007, 11:31 AM

I have the PS1 Namco Museum and indeed, Pole Position kicks ass.

Paisa49 · 06/18/2007, 12:56 PM

The Sega Saturn, hands down.

TR0N · 06/18/2007, 09:38 PM

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 06/18/2007, 11:31 AMI have the PS1 Namco Museum and indeed, Pole Position kicks ass.

Got 1-5 for my PS1 plus namco museum encore as well.

It's just sucks afther every volume they have release for it on every console,there still short of having splatter house.

Com'n on man funk dat!

Kitsunexus · 06/18/2007, 10:23 PM

Why OH WHY did that stupid song rise from the grave... ¬_¬

TR0N · 06/18/2007, 10:33 PM

Quote from: Kitsunexus on 06/18/2007, 10:23 PMWhy OH WHY did that stupid song rise from the grave... ¬_¬

Becuse namco are pussy ?

PCEngineHell · 06/19/2007, 08:01 PM

The greatest 2D console ever built is obviously the NEO-GEO MVS. It has the best 2D games ever made. I love everything on it. Everything I say is always the truth because I am Dark Joe Redifer.

TR0N · 06/20/2007, 01:35 AM

Quote from: Dark Joe Redifer on 06/19/2007, 08:01 PMThe greatest 2D console ever built is obviously the NEO-GEO MVS. It has the best 2D games ever made. I love everything on it. Everything I say is always the truth because I am Dark Joe Redifer.

Agreed end of line.

Beside the NeoGeo push it with it's giga power now what does the, Genesis and SNES have eh!? eh!?

Nada zip zero zlich

Joe Redifer · 06/20/2007, 05:10 AM

Genesis has Blast Processing™. No console would or could even dare compete with that.

TR0N · 06/20/2007, 06:02 AM

Quote from: SNK4EVER on 06/20/2007, 05:10 AMGenesis has Blast Processing™. No console would or could even dare compete with that.

So that's what the 32x was for to help it's blast processing

Kitsunexus · 06/20/2007, 12:55 PM

What is it with all these fucking retarded DARK POSTERS? It was funny when it was just Keranu, now it's like Digimon gone wrong.

nat · 06/20/2007, 12:57 PM

I heard the evil reign of the dark lord Dark Keranu is over. He was defeated by an insurmountable pile of cheese.

PCEngineHell · 06/20/2007, 03:03 PM

Yes,even I saw that the end was near,and not even Dark Jesus could stop it. Because of this,I went into my hyperchamber,added some play-doh,chemical Stupid-X,a few DNA samples taken from Joes last hair cut at Wal-Mart,for I have many spies there,and I made a mindless clone of Joe Redifer. Problem is he oddly looks like a long lost Baldwin brother... Mind this I do not,I then placed my evil soul into this mindless clone,and thus became DARK JOE REDIFER ! ! !

PCEngineHell · 06/20/2007, 03:07 PM

Quote from: SNK4EVER on 06/20/2007, 05:10 AMGenesis has Blast Processing™. No console would or could even dare compete with that.

The Neo-Geo has it also,they just never talked about it because it was such a weak feature compared to Mega and Giga Power. All M68000 cpus have Blast processing. Even the first Amiga could do Sonic if they wanted it to.

GUTS · 06/20/2007, 03:16 PM

It's classic message board behavior, one person does something haflway funny or clever and then everybody else has to jump on the bandwagon with their version. Everybody thinks they're a fucking comedian.

nat · 06/20/2007, 03:30 PM

Well, clearly I'm a genius since I started it.

In actuality, the things I say and do on here (just as the things I say and do in "real life") are more for my own benefit than anyone else's. In layman's terms, I fucking crack myself up, dude. If someone else finds them funny too, hey, more fun for everyone! If not, well, I'm still laughing anyway.

But you know, they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

PCEngineHell · 06/20/2007, 03:48 PM

Actually,Im not quite sure what you all are talking about,but I did suggest everyone start naming themselves Keranu for a day. After that Dark Keranu appeared,ect. But alas,this joke is old as shit,not even funny to me anymore either. I don't want to be a Baldwin for that matter. The only fond memory I will have of it is my Dark Jesus pokemon...