Does SuperGrafx help with slowdown in CD and Hu games?

bust3dstr8 · 07/26/2007, 10:25 AM

The Gradius games come to mind, especially the ice fields of II.

SuperDeadite · 07/26/2007, 10:30 AM

I don't have a SuperGrafx yet and can't say for certian. But I'm 100% sure that only games that were programmed with SuperGrafx support can take advantage of the additional hardware. For example Darius Plus and Darius Alpha are standard HuCards, but can use the SuperGrafx to reduce flicker. However I think these are the only games that have this ability...

ccovell · 07/26/2007, 10:48 AM

No, the SuperGrafx doesn't help with anything except drive up the price of compatible HuCards.

nat · 07/26/2007, 01:09 PM

Quote from: bust3dstr8 on 07/26/2007, 10:25 AMThe Gradius games come to mind, especially the ice fields of II.

No, it doesn't help. At all.

You can blame Konami's shitty programming on that. There is no reason those games should have the slowdown that they do.

Turbo D · 07/26/2007, 07:15 PM

supergrafx can only help games programed specially to take advantage of its brute strength. You can see the difference in darius that has modes for both regular pc engine and the super grafx.

CrackTiger · 07/26/2007, 08:12 PM

Quote from: turbo D on 07/26/2007, 07:15 PMsupergrafx can only help games programed specially to take advantage of its brute strength. You can see the difference in darius that has modes for both regular pc engine and the super grafx.

No brute strength was involved and the SuperGrafx isn't really any 'stronger' than a PCE(as I understand it).

The Darius HuCards just drop some of the boss-fight graphics onto it's second layer.

The SuperGrafx had some of it's restrictions/limits increased(number & size of sprites?) over the PCE, but since its not any stronger than the PC Engine, its can't really do anymore anyways. The PCE can already tax itself without reaching it's own 'blankety-per' limits.

Its like letting a kid who can only lift 100 pounds try to bench 150 pounds.

The only thing really brutish about it is its oversized body.

Joe Redifer · 07/26/2007, 08:26 PM

From what I understand, the SGX has an extra BG layer and maybe a touch more RAM. Not sure about the sprites. I could be speaking out of my ass, but I hear the SGX has a bit of trouble dealing with the extra stuff added due to the limited VRAM or some shit like that. The extra features were "tacked on" so the console isn't really optimized for what it should be... kind of like the Sega 32X.

I remember reading in EGM where it said the SGX would have a 4096 color palette. Of course in issue #1 they also said the Mega Drive would have a palette of over 256,000 colors. So EGM can be wrong here and there.

CrackTiger · 07/27/2007, 09:15 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 07/26/2007, 08:26 PMFrom what I understand, the SGX has an extra BG layer and maybe a touch more RAM. Not sure about the sprites. I could be speaking out of my ass, but I hear the SGX has a bit of trouble dealing with the extra stuff added due to the limited VRAM or some shit like that. The extra features were "tacked on" so the console isn't really optimized for what it should be... kind of like the Sega 32X.

I remember reading in EGM where it said the SGX would have a 4096 color palette. Of course in issue #1 they also said the Mega Drive would have a palette of over 256,000 colors. So EGM can be wrong here and there.

I remember reading in EGM at one point how the SuperGrafx was going to have scaling and rotation and a pallete of 32000 colors, making it more like the upcoming SNES.

TurboXray · 07/27/2007, 09:44 PM

What? You guys still in the dark about the SGX specs?

nat · 07/27/2007, 09:58 PM

Quote from: TurboXray on 07/27/2007, 09:44 PMWhat? You guys still in the dark about the SGX specs?

I am, and I own one!

Things I know for a fact:

The SuperGrafx has an extra video chip.
The SuperGrafx has an additional background layer over the regular PCE/TurboGrafx that is controlled by the second graphics chip.
There is a switch on the back to switch between "PC-Engine" mode and "SuperGrafx" mode. The actual function of this switch is unknown since all games seem to run fine with the console in SuperGrafx mode.
Space Harrier is the only game that will not run at all on the SuperGrafx, regardless of the position of the "mode" switch.
The SuperGrafx has a cooler name than any of the rest of the NEC console family, and is the real reason it is superior.

I don't have any concrete information on color palletes, VRAM or anything like that. I've heard the color pallete is larger on the SuperGrafx, but I've also heard that it isn't. If I had to guess, I'd say that it isn't, as SuperGrafx games don't look any more colorful than regular TurboGrafx games.

ccovell · 07/27/2007, 10:17 PM

The SGX, as it is, does not have a larger colour palette or anything. It's just a PCE with extra RAM, twin VDCs, and a chip to control the priority of the two VDCs' display.

AFAIK, the switch on the back of the SGX disables writing to the 2nd VDC, making the first VDC's registers mirrored just like the standard PCE.

Space Harrier is one of the few games that will not work properly on the SGX, until you switch it to PCE-only mode, then it will work just fine. I just tested it.

Turbo D · 07/27/2007, 10:32 PM

and you can use that switch to see the difference the super grafx can make when you boot up darius; which has both pce and super grafx modes built into the chip

TurboXray · 07/27/2007, 11:49 PM

Twin VDCs, baby! Twin VDCs... each with their own 64k of vram. That's two BG layers and two sprite layers for a combined total 128 sprites and up to 512 pixels/32sprites per scanline.

Gotta give some love the VPC too (for effects PCE can't do).

Also, the 32k of system ram really helps outs for decompressing LZ (like ZIP) graphics/etc in realtime (like the MD and SNES did). This wasn't practical with the base PCE (CD games started using it though).