Should the PCE and Turbo areas of the forum be merged?

[nat]

Trying to gauge the general consensus from the userbase.

I think I already know the answer, this has been brought up plenty of times in the past. But it'd be nice to have everyone's thoughts in one place.

Please vote even if you're just a casual reader of the forums, your opinion counts.

[NecroPhile]

I abstain from voting, as I don't really care.  I'm a 'show unread posts' type of person, so I rarely even notice which thread I'm in.

[Kitsunexus]

No, the PCE and TG16 are two separate entities with different game libraries and should be treated as such.  However the VC game list threads should be stickied in both the PCE and TG16 forums, and the VC forum removed.


Seriously, if you separate it, you'll have to deal with a lot of "Is this PCE or TG16?" posts...

[SignOfZeta]

Hell yes.

[NecroPhile]

However the VC game list threads should be stickied in both the PCE and TG16 forums, and the VC forum removed.

Why's that then?  Do you think that there should be a completely separate VC area, or what? This isn't a Wii forum, so I personally don't see the need of a VC section for listing and commenting on every VC release.

[Kitsunexus]

Why's that then?  Do you think that there should be a completely separate VC area, or what? This isn't a Wii forum, so I personally don't see the need of a VC section for listing and commenting on every VC release.

No... the VC Turbo games should have a sticky thread in the Turbo threads, and anything that is NOT Turbo VC should be discussed in Console Chat.

[MissaFX]

The Turbo and PC-E sections should be kept seperate.  It would be an ugly mess to see them merged.

[cho_aniki]

  For what it's worth, I think the two sections should remain separate. 

  Aside from discussions about differences between games released on both formats,  it seems to me that most posts are specific to only one
  system.

  It's probably also less confusing this way for someone who isn't familiar with both systems.

[nat]

Hmm, so far things aren't as clear-cut as I thought.

[nectarsis]

I vote keep em seperate (at least the sales areas for sure).

[NecroPhile]

No... the VC Turbo games should have a sticky thread in the Turbo threads, and anything that is NOT Turbo VC should be discussed in Console Chat.

Understood, but I don't like the idea of mixing Turbo VC discussions into the PCE and TG-16 areas.

[MissaFX]

I want to also say that I think the type of people who frequent one of these two areas might not frequent the other area nearly as much because it does not interest them.  To be honest the Turbo area does little for me since my focus is on PC-E collection (well after my first priority FX collection) and I usually post, reply and read the PC-E area the most. 

Since I am not an expert at the PC-E yet it would further be confusing for me to have to understand what is PC-E relevant info and what is not.  I am sure it would be more confusing to other "new" users as well.

[Joe Redifer]

Here are the changes I'd like to see:

1 - The TurboGrafx and PC Engine would be combined into one forum.  It is redundant otherwise.  They are the same system, just regionally different.  I think we should give members the benefit of the doubt in that they can determine the difference between the PCE and the Turbo.  The PC-FX would still have it's own forum since it is a separate console.

2 - All sales forums would be merged into one sales forum.  This makes it easier for buyers and sellers because then they don't have to check 3 specific forums, which is a pain.  Buyers often buy on impulse and this would make perusing items for sale much easier.  Descriptive thread titles would make sure that nothing is confused (US with Japanese games, etc).

3 - The Virtual Console forum would disappear, as it is unnecessary.  The thread with the current list of Turbo/PCE Virtual Console games could be stickied to the top of the general Turbo/PCE forum and modified as changes are made to the list.  All other Virtual Console discussion can be done in either the regular Turbo/PCE forum or the Console Chat forum, depending on the games discussed.

4 - The Console/Mobile Game Development forum should disappear since there isn't anything in there that wouldn't fit in either the standard Turbo/PCE forum or the Console Chat forum.

The forum listing would look something like this:

THE PC ENGINE FX WORLD
 -Pcenignefx.com - The NEC Console Resource Site
 -The Pcengnefx Network - Your Worldwide Connection to NEC Console Info
 
NEC VIDEOGAME CONSOLES
 -TurboGrafx-16, TurboDuo, PC-Engine and SuperGrafx Discussion
 -PC-FX Discussion
 -NEC Console Repair/Mod Discussion
 -High Scores
 -Sales & Trades
 
HOMEBREW DEVELOPMENT
 -Turbo/PCE Development
 -PC Game Development
   
OTHER DISCUSSION
 -Chit-Chat
 -Console Chat

[OldTurboBastard]

Make the PCE/Supergrafx forum just "Supergrafx" and the Turbo forum "Turbo/PCE"


That would make the most sense to me...

[MissaFX]

Here are the changes I'd like to see:
*snip*
2 - All sales forums would be merged into one sales forum.  This makes it easier for buyers and sellers because then they don't have to check 3 specific forums, which is a pain.  Buyers often buy on impulse and this would make perusing items for sale much easier.  Descriptive thread titles would make sure that nothing is confused (US with Japanese games, etc).
*snip*

You and I have nearly exactly opposite ideas.  Mixing the two sales threads would be a nightmare to me, they are the two above all else which I think should remain seperate.  If all the accessories and games and consoles were out of the box compatable, I might agree with you.  But since they are not I think it avoids a lot of confusion.

[Joe Redifer]

I think the seller should assume at least some responsibility for describing the item correctly.  Perhaps you missed that "descriptive thread title" part of my post.

Instead of having threads like:

"OMG controlelrz lol!!!"

we'd have:

"PC Engine controllers (Also works on Duo)"

or

"TurboGrafx-16 controllers"

[MissaFX]

I think the seller should assume at least some responsibility for describing the item correctly.  Perhaps you missed that "descriptive thread title" part of my post.

Instead of having threads like:

"OMG controlelrz lol!!!"

we'd have:

"PC Engine controllers (Also works on Duo)"

or

"TurboGrafx-16 controllers"

I didn't miss it, it's just confusing because some items like a "Duo Tap" will work on a PC-E.  And this is further complicated by not every seller being clear in their title, even if you want them to be clear about it.

[NecroPhile]

"PC Engine controllers (Also works on Duo)"

Will these controllers work on a TurboDuo?

You've proved Missa's point nicely.

*edit* - What does this have to do with TG-16/TurboExpress/TurboDuo systems and games? 

[guyjin]

Absolutely do not merge. The main forums are not broken, do not fix them.

if you're going to change anything, the Turbo VC forum is too specific; hence the lack of activity. It should be expanded to cover all virtual console releases.

[nat]

I agree with Joe 90%, although I think the VC forum should stay. Like another user pointed out, I don't want VC-specific threads mixed in with the rest of the stuff.

if you're going to change anything, the Turbo VC forum is too specific; hence the lack of activity. It should be expanded to cover all virtual console releases.

Why? This is a TurboGrafx forum, not a Wii or any other console forum.

[guyjin]

I agree with Joe 90%, although I think the VC forum should stay. Like another user pointed out, I don't want VC-specific threads mixed in with the rest of the stuff.

(snip)

Why? This is a TurboGrafx forum, not a Wii or any other console forum.

do you read your own posts?!

[OldRover]

Absolutely not. I am SO sick to death of people getting the two confused...keeping them separated like this helps educate people.

[nat]

I agree with Joe 90%, although I think the VC forum should stay. Like another user pointed out, I don't want VC-specific threads mixed in with the rest of the stuff.

(snip)

Why? This is a TurboGrafx forum, not a Wii or any other console forum.

do you read your own posts?!

I didn't think I needed to spell it out--

Yes, the VC forum should stay for TG-16 related VC threads. The whole reason the VC section is there is for TG-16/TG-CD games on the VC. That aspect of the VC is important to the community in that it brings new blood into the fold that hadn't previously experienced the console before. There are issues specific to playing the games on the VC as opposed to the real hardware (video filtering, emulation quality, etc).

The Genesis, SNES, NES, N64, etc areas on the VC don't have anything to do with the Turbo and thus there is no reason for them to be discussed in the Turbo VC forum. Do we talk about the Genesis and NES in the PCE forum? Of course not. Do we have forum sections for the SNES and Neo Geo? Of course not.

[guyjin]

but if you allow discussion of all VC releases in one forum, there will should be no discussion of the VC outside of that forum, which you said was a problem.

[nat]

Oh, I was referring exclusively to Turbo-related VC posts when I made that comment. If you removed the VC area altogether, you'd get lots of Turbo VC questions and whatnot in the "regular" Turbo area. Plus the weekly "Thiz stuf is t00 blurry" thread.

I'm not worried about a few SMS or NeoGeo VC related threads in the "Console Chat" area, that's fine by me. That's what it's there for.

[Joe Redifer]

Will these controllers work on a TurboDuo?

Of course they would.  All Duos are the same in that regard which is why I used the term "Duo" generically.  A TurboTap only works with the turbo.  It's really not that difficult to figure out.

Seriously, think about it.  What if someone wants to discuss Splatterhouse?  Does he post in the Turbo section or the PCE section?  Does it really matter?  NO!  Splatterhouse is Splatterhouse.  It wasn't ported from the PCE to the Turbo, it's the same damn game.  If you want to mention any differences, then it would just be easy to explain that you prefer the Japanese version due to the naked Jesus portrayed in stage 4.  It seems a lot of elitists want to separate themselves from anything TurboGrafx.  The comment about the SuperGrafx replacing the PC Engine section I could agree with since it has it's own independent library of games.

[NecroPhile]

Of course they would.  All Duos are the same in that regard which is why I used the term "Duo" generically.  A TurboTap only works with the turbo.  It's really not that difficult to figure out.

No shit, chief.  My point was that even you weren't being specific enough for people that are new to the hardware to clearly understand; and if you want proof that not everyone knows that only the TG-16 had oddball ports, then take a gander at the semi-weekly posts asking if (insert Japanese controller here) will work with US hardware.  If we're to depend on accurate thread titles, then you mods are going to have your hands full; and not full of booby, as I'm sure you'd prefer.

It seems a lot of elitists want to separate themselves from anything TurboGrafx.

Then those peeps are bat shit crazy.  US is always superior to Japan - just ask Hiroshima and Nagasaki (damn, I'm classy).

[nat]

Yeah, Joe is right. Anyone who tells themself the PCE and Turbo aren't the same thing are deluding themselves (and others). It is the exact same hardware with a couple of pins swapped in the cartridge port.

That said, I'm surprised the poll is as even as it is. I thought it would be a landslide one way in favor of merging, since this has been brought up before.

[Joe Redifer]

The results of the poll seem to be bouncing back and forth.  I know a lot of people don't like/fear change in something they're used to.  Some people probably wouldn't like it if (hypothetically) we merged separate forums for Coregrafx and Shuttle and PC Engine into one PC Engine forum.

if you want proof that not everyone knows that only the TG-16 had oddball ports, then take a gander at the semi-weekly posts asking if (insert Japanese controller here) will work with US hardware.

Exactly my point.  It seems that separate forums aren't doing anything to help that situation now.  And I wouldn't ever edit anyone's sale post title.  If they aren't competent enough to list the item descriptively enough and the buyer cannot ask questions, then they deserve any misfortune that comes as a result.  I predict very little trouble.  A seller should be happy to answer any questions posed in his sale thread.  If not, then the seller is a dick and does not deserve to sell anything.

Also, should there be a "Best Bonk" thread in the Turbo section and a "Best PC Genjin" in the PCE section?  That's just, well, redundant.

[MissaFX]

Exactly my point.  It seems that separate forums aren't doing anything to help that situation now.  And I wouldn't ever edit anyone's sale post title.  If they aren't competent enough to list the item descriptively enough and the buyer cannot ask questions, then they deserve any misfortune that comes as a result.  I predict very little trouble.  A seller should be happy to answer any questions posed in his sale thread.  If not, then the seller is a dick and does not deserve to sell anything.

Huh?  Right now the forums being seperated is doing a LOT to help the situation, at least for me.  It's the very fact that they are seperate that helps keep things from getting confusing.  If we re-make the forums into something that it takes an expert about the PC-E/TG to understand easly, it will only add to the confusion of at least half the userbase.

[Joe Redifer]

I guess we probably should cater to the lowest common denominator.

[MissaFX]

I guess we probably should cater to the lowest common denominator.

Every community if it hopes to have new members and to continue to exist over time needs to take consideration for the newbies or they risk becomming an exclusive island which is daunting for anyone to consider exploring.

[Joe Redifer]

OK, let me throw this out there:

What changes to the forum format would you like to see, if any?

This is a general question directed at everyone.  Yes, I realize that's what the suggestions forum is for, but since we're discussing it now...

[MissaFX]

OK, let me throw this out there:

What changes to the forum format would you like to see, if any?

This is a general question directed at everyone.  Yes, I realize that's what the suggestions forum is for, but since we're discussing it now...

The top area of the board to go back to the less confusing way it was before it all got merged.

No other changes.

[NecroPhile]

What changes to the forum format would you like to see, if any?

The format that you listed is fine by me, other than two minor quibbles.  First, I'd like to see a generic For Sale/Trade area, rather than one specific to NEC consoles; second, there should be a VC area, rather than mixing 'em into the console thread.

[Joe Redifer]

The top area of the board to go back to the less confusing way it was before it all got merged.

Could you refresh me?  Do you mean before the chat was added?

[nat]

I think she means before Aaron streamlined these Suggestions and Comments areas into child boards. That was done after the chat was added, actually.

I think it's much slicker now.

[Joe Redifer]

I want to say that I am not a big fan of child boards (although I am not opposed to them for this particular section).  But having a forum with child boards kind of makes it harder to navigate.  Imagine having an NEC Console Forum, then each NEC system as a child board, and then sales sections as child boards of them.  Yikes!

[nat]

I'd be opposed to that kind of treatment for the "meat" of the forum, I agree. But it works well for this area IMO.

[quoth09]

PCE and Turbo need to stay divided. Much easier this way.
Not to mention anyone new here needs to learn the difference between the 2.

I could go on a long rant about crap that everyone here already knows, but I will leave it at that.

edit: forgot to mention i voted a big fat NO.

[PCEngineHell]

Id have to say no on this idea. Even though the internal hardware is the same,the difference between the 2 regions libraries are far different enough in quantity and quality to warrant 2 separate areas for discussions,because of domestication of US releases and because of the sheer amount of over all releases the Japanese side got.

 Keeping the sales separate is important because you will always have that small margin that has no clue about buying or playing imports.. They don't need the extra headache or confusion if they are just jumping in for the first time,and only want to focus on TG stuff.

 Also keeping it separate is especially important for people like me who only interest themselves with either the US or Japanese side of things and not both. I don't pay as much attention to the TG discussions as I do the Pc Engine ones by choice and having the areas separate helps me locate and focus on the threads I want to post in.
What isn't broke doesn't need to be fixed.

[SignOfZeta]

Wow. I'm truly surprised that even a single person wants the TG-16 and PCE stuff separate. I mean...WTF.

They are the SAME THING. Seriously, if this were a 16-bit Nintendo site would you want the Super Famicom and and Super NES stuff separate? Is the Mega Drive a different machine than a Genesis? If it were a Playstation site would you want the Playstation stuff separate from the...other Playstation stuff?

How about systems like GBA, or Neo Geo which don't even have region lock?

Who are these theoretical retards you are trying to protect from "confusion"? What confusion? How fucking stupid are people? If anything you are confusing people by separating the different regions and claiming they are different systems when they aren't. Also, this sort of shit is probably a partial contributor to the insane price of US releases.

There are only two NEC systems. All the PCE stuff (yes, including the SGX, it says PC Engine right on the front for fuck's sake) and the PC FX. If this forum had its base in a country where NEC never released either system, I have a feeling we wouldn't even be discussing this. I'd also point out that back in the day on the Turbo Mailing list, when the PCE was actually still being supported, we never made this useless distinction.

Virtual console is sort of an odd ball since the forum, at least as I see it, was originally designed to discuss what the Wii would and would not do before it even came out. It was really significant at the time, but now it sort of seems pointless. If I play Super Star Solider on VC, or PCE (or TG-16 for that matter) its the same game and it seems the topic would generate the most conversation in a forum with the most exposure; the PCE/TG-16 forum. If the topic is blurry graphics or shitty Wiimote functionally, then I guess that would make more sense in a VC forum.

About controllers. All controllers for NEC 8-bit systems, whether they be the original pad, the one with the turbos, the grey ones, the white ones, the six button ones, the City Boy, the Hori Commander, the Sigma stick or the pachinko controller work with all NEC 8-bit systems meaning the PC Engine, Core Grafx, Core Grafx II, LT, Shuttle, Super Grafx, US and JP Duos, Duo R, and Duo RX with %100 universal compatibility...

...except the actual US and EU TG-16 (not the US Duo), which has its own jumbo sized plug, and therefore jumbo plug equipped controllers and multitaps. If that confuses the shit out of people then maybe we can put it in a sticky FAQ...or maybe those people should go buy a Pico because if something like that confuses them then system cards are going to blow their puny little brain to pieces...

[nat]

Wow. I'm truly surprised that even a single person wants the TG-16 and PCE stuff separate. I mean...WTF.

They are the SAME THING. Seriously, if this were a 16-bit Nintendo site would you want the Super Famicom and and Super NES stuff separate? Is the Mega Drive a different machine than a Genesis? If it were a Playstation site would you want the Playstation stuff separate from the...other Playstation stuff?

How about systems like GBA, or Neo Geo which don't even have region lock?

Who are these theoretical retards you are trying to protect from "confusion"? What confusion? How fucking stupid are people? If anything you are confusing people by separating the different regions and claiming they are different systems when they aren't. Also, this sort of shit is probably a partial contributor to the insane price of US releases.

There are only two NEC systems. All the PCE stuff (yes, including the SGX, it says PC Engine right on the front for fuck's sake) and the PC FX. If this forum had its base in a country where NEC never released either system, I have a feeling we wouldn't even be discussing this. I'd also point out that back in the day on the Turbo Mailing list, when the PCE was actually still being supported, we never made this useless distinction.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[guyjin]

but where would Keranu be able to chant "USA! USA! USA!" if we merged the forums? 

[Sinistron]

I agree they should be combined.
If you drink Pepsi in US and then drink pepsi in Japan in some different funky looking can- are you still drinking Pepsi?  You tell me.  Same thing.

As for the sales threads- its not as if the sales threads already don't list items for every other system right after the pce/turbo stuff is listed in the first couple lines- so why bother separating pce from turbo?  It will just be more taxing for people wanting to list what they're selling.  Of course there's single item specific sale threads going on here too- but the subject matter will usually say something like FOR SALE USED TURBOEXPRESS- not that complicated to figure out that that's an american turbografx handheld and not a GT.   

[guyjin]

I agree they should be combined.
If you drink Pepsi in US and then drink pepsi in Japan in some different funky looking can- are you still drinking Pepsi?  You tell me.  Same thing.

actually, no. They change the cola formulas from country to country, to suit cultural tastes.

[Kitsunexus]

Seriously, if this were a 16-bit Nintendo site would you want the Super Famicom and and Super NES stuff separate? Is the Mega Drive a different machine than a Genesis? If it were a Playstation site would you want the Playstation stuff separate from the...other Playstation stuff?

Yes to all, I'm anal about that shit.

[Joe Redifer]

Also keeping it separate is especially important for people like me who only interest themselves with either the US or Japanese side of things and not both. I don't pay as much attention to the TG discussions as I do the Pc Engine ones

This is exactly what I'm getting at.  Many games appeared in both regions.  What if I want to talk about Splatterhouse and I posted it in the Turbo forum instead of the PCE one?  You'd likely miss the chance to add some Mike Helgeson-ness to the thread and contribute to the discussion.  Where do I post my thread so it gets the most exposure?  If you say the PCE forum, then it all comes down to everybody posting everything in just the PCE forum just to get the most exposure for their threads.  Region is irrelevant to the discussion of most games.

As for the sales forums, I usually don't visit them, but I don't think it would be that big of a problem.  We're not eBay.  People who come to this place have to know at least something about the system in order to find the site.

[Turbo D]

I voted NO, I find the forum easier to navigate with the current separation program.

Seriously, if you separate it, you'll have to deal with a lot of "Is this PCE or TG16?" posts...

Absolutely not. I am SO sick to death of people getting the two confused...keeping them separated like this helps educate people.

These are the reasons I think that they shouldn't be merged.

Here are the changes I'd like to see:
2 - All sales forums would be merged into one sales forum.  This makes it easier for buyers and sellers because then they don't have to check 3 specific forums, which is a pain.  Buyers often buy on impulse and this would make perusing items for sale much easier.  Descriptive thread titles would make sure that nothing is confused (US with Japanese games, etc).

I disagree with this because people either want to buy US or Jap. It would be a hassle to find what you wanted specifically.

I guess we probably should cater to the lowest common denominator.

Forums are meant to be helpful for everyone, not just easy to use for us learned.



I guess all in all, the forum is the way it is and has been for a reason.

[Kitsunexus]

And another thing, why the fuck was this even suggested? Did it REALLY bug people that much? No matter how this little poll turns out, it's still Aaron's site, and I HIGHLY doubt he is going to rework the forum because of a simple little poll. And if it stays the way it is, I doubt any of you are going to leave, and if you DO get your way you all are going to bitch and bellyache when the revision brings in several little glitches.

Seriously, this is the most pointless thread ever on PCEFX, and wouldn't you know it, I DIDN'T EVEN START IT!
It's almost as pointless as nat wanting to play Rail Chase and then not even touching it.