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CRAPCOM

Started by Keranu, 07/11/2008, 02:19 AM

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Keranu

I've finally gotten around to putting up the first chapter of a series I am writing called "CRAPCOM" :P . I know a crapload of people aren't going to agree, but I'm trying to be as moderate as possible (as I hope anyone who debates with me is as well), while trying to throwing in some humor here and there. I plan on writing a ton more, so this is only a snipet. Even if you're a die hard Capcom fan, you might still enjoy reading it for all the historical research I did just for this chapter alone - which I had a lot of fun doing because I really got to learn about a ton of old, revolutionary arcade shooters.

CRAPCOM: Volume I - The Early Years
Quote from: TurboXray on 01/02/2014, 09:21 PMAdding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).
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Click the banner to learn more about Alex Chiu and his "immortality rings"

Turbo D

Quote from: Keranu on 07/11/2008, 02:19 AMEven if you're a die hard Capcom fan, you might still enjoy reading it for all the historical research I did just for this chapter alone - which I had a lot of fun doing because I really got to learn about a ton of old, revolutionary arcade shooters.
Even though turbo D is a big Capsule Computer fan, he really enjoyed Keranu's article! I had fun reading about the company's history and learning new facts. I hope there are many more articles in the Crapcom series at LazerDorks. Keep up the good work Keranu!

Quote from: Lazer DorksWhile we're on the subject of 1942, I don't think I can pass up the fact that Capcom, a JAPANESE developer, made the goal of 1942 to destroy the entire Japanese air fleet. That's just... crazy. I know damn well such anti-patriotism wouldn't fly in an American game!
I've always enjoyed this fact! Gotta love that crazy Capsule Company!  8)
Quote from: MissaFX on 01/06/2008, 12:10 PMMy idea of gaming is a couple of friends over, a couple of drinks, a couple of medical-handrolled-game-enhancing-cigs and a glowing box you all worship.
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Keranu

Tank you veddy much!

I gotta admit, Capcom had balls for making 1942 from the American perspective  8) .
Quote from: TurboXray on 01/02/2014, 09:21 PMAdding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).
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Click the banner to learn more about Alex Chiu and his "immortality rings"

Joe Redifer

Quote from: turbo DEven though turbo D is a big Capsule Computer fan, he really enjoyed Keranu's article!
Well then he should come and tell us himself!

guyjin

Apparently the D in Turbo D stands for Deion Sanders.  :P

And Capcom is better than most Devs out there, then and now. Though they have an annoying tendency to grind out sequels of a super hit constantly until everyone's sick of it.

CrackTiger

Thanks for actually going through with this and doing such a thorough job. I've been hesitant to ask you about it from time to time, since it could very well draw negative attention to LaZer Dorks. It was a good idea beginning with a disclaimer. I'd keep the disclaimer at the beginning of each volume.

So far it's not too damning as an argument, but is very entertaining as a point of view and general Capcom profile. I can't wait until you get to the good/bad stuff like Mega Man. :twisted:

The size of the Crapcom logo reminds me more of crappy Mode 7 effects than Capcom though. :wink: Which also reminds me of a point you may or may not want to consider when you reach the SNES era. Capcom's SNES games didn't abuse Mode 7 effects the way most developers did. Most of their original console games and SNES ports were heavy on hand drawn artwork and clean touched up pixel art and they weren't afraid to use real animation in place of cheap fx. Just compare the battle scenes between FFIV - FFVI and Breath of Fire I & II.

From what I understand, when they use a date with "XX" (19XX), it means that it's an alternate reality.
Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

Ninja Spirit

Let's see Code Name: Viper/ Dead Fox ripped off Rolling Thunder and got away with it....

It took 6 years for Capcom to count to three...

Oh yeah the mix of CAPsule COMputer, the proper name for that kind of abbreviation is called a portmanteau

CrackTiger

Quote from: Ninja Spirit on 07/11/2008, 01:28 PMLet's see Code Name: Viper/ Dead Fox ripped off Rolling Thunder and got away with it....
What about Shinobi? :wink:
Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

Lochlan

I did not like this article.

Your main criticism seems to be that Capcom's games are derivative.  You admit at the beginning of the article that Capcom is not the only company that does this, but I submit to you that every game developer does and that the vast majority of all releases are derived from other games.  Nolan Bushnell stole pong; Space Invaders is a rip off of Breakout; every Japanese RPG ever is derivative of early US RPGs; and the list goes on.

There is a very small list of games that I would consider to be wholly "original", and they were all made in the 80's.

Furthermore, your disparaging comment about 1943 kai as an "update" made be pause.  (Apparently a game can't be rated on its own merits?  Perhaps you think that a sequel/update has to have a certain number of original elements to qualify as a new experience?) It leads me to believe that a future article will criticize the Street Fighter series, although I hope I am incorrect.  People who are not fighting game fans can laugh, but each one of the five versions of SF2 is drastically different.  The subtle differences between moves changes the dynamic of the games.

I do not disagree with your sentiment, but in my opinion the fact that you focus on Capcom instead of the industry as a whole undermines your argument.
Quote from: ridgewood_general_store_1 on 08/15/2014, 11:12 AMI'm not sorry about this, as I'm not sorry about ANY attack by the goverrats.

NecroPhile

Quote from: Lochlan on 07/11/2008, 05:51 PMI did not like this article.

Your main criticism seems to be that Capcom's games are derivative.  You admit at the beginning of the article that Capcom is not the only company that does this, but I submit to you that every game developer does and that the vast majority of all releases are derived from other games.  Nolan Bushnell stole pong; Space Invaders is a rip off of Breakout; every Japanese RPG ever is derivative of early US RPGs; and the list goes on.

There is a very small list of games that I would consider to be wholly "original", and they were all made in the 80's.
My thoughts exactly.  I've read articles such as this before, therefor I now dub thee Krapanu or maybe Krap-On-You, 'cause it's 8% more goofy.

Quote from: Lochlan on 07/11/2008, 05:51 PMFurthermore, your disparaging comment about 1943 kai as an "update" made be pause.  (Apparently a game can't be rated on its own merits?  Perhaps you think that a sequel/update has to have a certain number of original elements to qualify as a new experience?) It leads me to believe that a future article will criticize the Street Fighter series, although I hope I am incorrect.  People who are not fighting game fans can laugh, but each one of the five versions of SF2 is drastically different.  The subtle differences between moves changes the dynamic of the games.
Drastically different is a bit much, but at least they were all incremental improvements and not just a rehash of the same crap like most sports games (Woo-hoo!  Madden 2008.5 is coming soon with new stats and team mascot obituaries!).
Ultimate Forum Bully/Thief/Saboteur/Clone Warrior! BURN IN HELL NECROPHUCK!!!

CrackTiger

Quote from: Lochlan on 07/11/2008, 05:51 PMYour main criticism seems to be that Capcom's games are derivative.  You admit at the beginning of the article that Capcom is not the only company that does this, but I submit to you that every game developer does and that the vast majority of all releases are derived from other games.  Nolan Bushnell stole pong; Space Invaders is a rip off of Breakout; every Japanese RPG ever is derivative of early US RPGs; and the list goes on.
Keranu's not saying that Capcom is the only company to make non-original games. He's simply demystifying their games on a title by title basis. When the Crapcom series is finished you can better judge what he's trying to get across overall.


QuoteThere is a very small list of games that I would consider to be wholly "original", and they were all made in the 80's.
At no time did Keranu discuss "wholly original" games.


QuoteFurthermore, your disparaging comment about 1943 kai as an "update" made be pause.  (Apparently a game can't be rated on its own merits?  Perhaps you think that a sequel/update has to have a certain number of original elements to qualify as a new experience?) It leads me to believe that a future article will criticize the Street Fighter series, although I hope I am incorrect.  People who are not fighting game fans can laugh, but each one of the five versions of SF2 is drastically different.  The subtle differences between moves changes the dynamic of the games.

I do not disagree with your sentiment, but in my opinion the fact that you focus on Capcom instead of the industry as a whole undermines your argument.
The Street Fighter series will likely be a target in an upcoming volume, but fans (not necessarily teh most(!) diehardest) of Capcom and SFII trash both on a daily basis for the same reasons Keranu singles them out.

I believe that SFIICE and SSFII were worthy upgrades, but the Turbos aren't drastically different. Personally, I think that there's nothing wrong with the updates Capcom and other companies make to their street fighting series. Most opinions from what I read online seem to differ.

Keranu isn't focusing on Capcom while ignoring the industry as a whole. The reason he's taking Capcom to task, is because he feels that they are the highest regarded of the worst offenders. But either way, this stunning article is about Capcom. Nobody criticizes the review of a shooter series or game because they did not choose to review the entire genre as a whole.
Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

jboypacman

I found this to be quite good and i plan on reading more once its up to read. :D

WoodyXP

I enjoyed it.  Got some good laughs too.  =D>
"I bathe in AES carts."

MotoRoaderMike

Quote from: Keranu on 07/11/2008, 02:19 AMI've finally gotten around to putting up the first chapter of a series I am writing called "CRAPCOM" :P . I know a crapload of people aren't going to agree, but I'm trying to be as moderate as possible (as I hope anyone who debates with me is as well), while trying to throwing in some humor here and there. I plan on writing a ton more, so this is only a snipet. Even if you're a die hard Capcom fan, you might still enjoy reading it for all the historical research I did just for this chapter alone - which I had a lot of fun doing because I really got to learn about a ton of old, revolutionary arcade shooters.

CRAPCOM: Volume I - The Early Years
I hope this is just a joke and you really don't hate Capcom.
/forumsiggs6.jpg
Dragon's Lair appreciation. Again.

CrackTiger

Quote from: MotoRoaderMike on 07/11/2008, 07:44 PMI hope this is just a joke and you really don't hate Capcom.
Keranu, this article was worth it just for priceless comments like this. :P
Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

Lochlan

Quote from: guest on 07/11/2008, 06:29 PMAt no time did Keranu discuss "wholly original" games.
Um, no kidding?  I mentioned that because his main criticism was the derivative nature of the games he was discussing -- re-read my reply if you don't understand the context.

Quote from: guest on 07/11/2008, 06:29 PMThe Street Fighter series will likely be a target in an upcoming volume, but fans (not necessarily teh most(!) diehardest) of Capcom and SFII trash both on a daily basis for the same reasons Keranu singles them out.

I believe that SFIICE and SSFII were worthy upgrades, but the Turbos aren't drastically different.
LOL.  If you don't see the huge differences SSF2 and Super Turbo (which are many, including super moves), I don't know what to tell you.  SF2' and SF2' Hyper Fighting I'll give you, because unless you're obsessed like I am you might not notice the variations between characters.

The point is that these differences -- which appear small to someone who isn't a fan of the series -- change the overall balance of the game in a way that requires any half-decent player to rethink their strategies.  In a fighting game, even the (seemingly) most subtle changes such as move priority or damage can completely change how the game is played.

Quote from: guest on 07/11/2008, 06:29 PMPersonally, I think that there's nothing wrong with the updates Capcom and other companies make to their street fighting series. Most opinions from what I read online seem to differ.
Maybe if those opinions are from non-fighting game fans -- but if these unnamed opinions are coming from people who don't know any better then their opinions are uninformed at best -- so who cares?

Quote from: guest on 07/11/2008, 06:29 PMKeranu isn't focusing on Capcom while ignoring the industry as a whole. The reason he's taking Capcom to task, is because he feels that they are the highest regarded of the worst offenders. But either way, this stunning article is about Capcom.
And I think that this article about Capcom is misguided and misleading.

Quote from: guest on 07/11/2008, 06:29 PMNobody criticizes the review of a shooter series or game because they did not choose to review the entire genre as a whole.
Wow, talk about irrelevant.  His "article" isn't a review of anything -- it's a retrospective of the practices of one game company.  Like it or not, despite his disclaimer, the implications are that Capcom is and has always been particularly bad about this sort of thing -- which is completely ridiculous, because they're simply engaging in the same practices every other game company has since the beginning of video games.
Quote from: ridgewood_general_store_1 on 08/15/2014, 11:12 AMI'm not sorry about this, as I'm not sorry about ANY attack by the goverrats.

Keranu

Quote from: guest on 07/11/2008, 12:45 PMThanks for actually going through with this and doing such a thorough job. I've been hesitant to ask you about it from time to time, since it could very well draw negative attention to LaZer Dorks. It was a good idea beginning with a disclaimer. I'd keep the disclaimer at the beginning of each volume.
Thanks for the comments! You'll of course always be my most respected opponent in Capcom debates! I wasn't planning on keeping the disclaimer for future chapters, but that might be a good idea actually since a lot of people might jump right into the Mega Man or whatever chapter first.

Quote from: CrackTigerSo far it's not too damning as an argument, but is very entertaining as a point of view and general Capcom profile. I can't wait until you get to the good/bad stuff like Mega Man. :twisted:
Yes I too can't wait until I get to the much meatier topics  :mrgreen: ! This introduction, as I've posted, turned out to be a ton of fun though because of all the old arcade shooters I've played. I wish I could remember the name of this one game I came across, but basically it was a an arcade game from the 70's that was in black and white and used the same kind of stretching effect Axelay did and had you dropping bombs on houses and stuff. Really fascintaing for it's time.

Quote from: CrackTigerThe size of the Crapcom logo reminds me more of crappy Mode 7 effects than Capcom though. :wink: Which also reminds me of a point you may or may not want to consider when you reach the SNES era. Capcom's SNES games didn't abuse Mode 7 effects the way most developers did. Most of their original console games and SNES ports were heavy on hand drawn artwork and clean touched up pixel art and they weren't afraid to use real animation in place of cheap fx. Just compare the battle scenes between FFIV - FFVI and Breath of Fire I & II.
If you can guess where I ripped that Capcom logo from, I'll give you a virtual cookie ;) .

But yes I won't argue with you; Capcom had excellent pixel artists, from any period of their life span really. I think that's probably one of the reasons why they are so successful because they put out, clean, attractived stylized art. Of course that won't stop them from using the same graphics for another sequel, or two, or three ;) .

Quote from: CrackTigerFrom what I understand, when they use a date with "XX" (19XX), it means that it's an alternate reality.
What about the even more technlogically impressive 1944  :mrgreen: ? Ah well, lazers are more fun than bullets anyways.

Quote from: Ninja SpiritLet's see Code Name: Viper/ Dead Fox ripped off Rolling Thunder and got away with it....
Hey anymore information like this is appreciated and could be used for future reference :) ! Speaking of which, does anyone know anything about a Japanese dude(s) vandalizing one of Capcom's buildings with spray paint or something like that? My brother mentioned this to me (said it was on the Capcom wiki, but I didn't see it) and would love to know more about this if it happened.

Quote from: LochlanI did not like this article.

Your main criticism seems to be that Capcom's games are derivative.  You admit at the beginning of the article that Capcom is not the only company that does this, but I submit to you that every game developer does and that the vast majority of all releases are derived from other games.  Nolan Bushnell stole pong; Space Invaders is a rip off of Breakout; every Japanese RPG ever is derivative of early US RPGs; and the list goes on.

There is a very small list of games that I would consider to be wholly "original", and they were all made in the 80's.
I think CrackTiger's interpretations on my article pretty much summed up everything.

I agree with you that there are very few games that could be considered wholly original, but that's not my point with this article. My purpose of the article is exactly what CrackTiger said: "The reason he's taking Capcom to task, is because he feels that they are the highest regarded of the worst offenders.". I could make this article about any company, but I chose Capcom because I feel that they aren't criticized nearly as much as other companies like Nintendo or Sony.

I wouldn't take my introduction chapter so seriously, it's just there to give a brief history on Capcom and as I sarcastically said in my article, it builds on the "evil" foundations of Capcom's future. I really don't have anything against the games I mentioned in the first chapter, they are just used as a placement for future volumns. I even somewhat acknowledged this in the article when I said "Considering Vulgus was Capcom's first game, I shouldn't be hitting it so hard and overall it is a fun game.".

Quote from: LochlanFurthermore, your disparaging comment about 1943 kai as an "update" made be pause.  (Apparently a game can't be rated on its own merits?  Perhaps you think that a sequel/update has to have a certain number of original elements to qualify as a new experience?) It leads me to believe that a future article will criticize the Street Fighter series, although I hope I am incorrect.  People who are not fighting game fans can laugh, but each one of the five versions of SF2 is drastically different.  The subtle differences between moves changes the dynamic of the games.
If I were to review 1943 Kai, I would pretty much give it the same score as 1943: Battle of Midway since it's basically the same game (and again, I like 1943). I just questioned why Capcom would bother with such a small update. I will of course be going indepth on the Street Fighter series and I am (or was) a HUGE fighting game fan. As stated in the disclaimer, I considered SF2 to be a "legendary revolution" and I feel that it's not only Capcom's most important game, but one of the most important video games ever made period. I appreciate what was included in the updates (and again, I would rate each game by it's own merits), but I think it was just a little excessive by being too little too many times. You can read some of my thoughts on the updates in this thread for the time being.

Quote from: LochlanI do not disagree with your sentiment, but in my opinion the fact that you focus on Capcom instead of the industry as a whole undermines your argument.
I've already acknowledged the fact that the whole industry likes to do sleezy things. Again, I chose Capcom specifically because I think "they are the highest regarded of the worst offenders.".

Quote from: LochlanWow, talk about irrelevant.  His "article" isn't a review of anything -- it's a retrospective of the practices of one game company.  Like it or not, despite his disclaimer, the implications are that Capcom is and has always been particularly bad about this sort of thing -- which is completely ridiculous, because they're simply engaging in the same practices every other game company has since the beginning of video games
As said above, the introduction chapter is a set up and not to be taken so literally. You're right, every company essentially derives elements of their games from another, but as the series moves on I'll be able to focus more on other things.

Quote from: MotoRoaderMikeI hope this is just a joke and you really don't hate Capcom.
I don't necessarily hate Capcom. As the disclaimer says, I felt they were a solid developer in the late 80's and that I felt hate is too strong of a word to use for anything. I may say "I hate Capcom" in a sentence, but I don't completely mean I hate anything with Capcom's name on it. If I play a Capcom game that I haven't played before, I try to keep an open mind with it.

Quote from: CrackTigerKeranu, this article was worth it just for priceless comments like this. :P
Haha yeah :mrgreen: .
Quote from: TurboXray on 01/02/2014, 09:21 PMAdding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).
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CrackTiger

Quote from: Lochlan on 07/11/2008, 10:02 PMLOL.  If you don't see the huge differences SSF2 and Super Turbo (which are many, including super moves), I don't know what to tell you.  SF2' and SF2' Hyper Fighting I'll give you, because unless you're obsessed like I am you might not notice the variations between characters.

The point is that these differences -- which appear small to someone who isn't a fan of the series -- change the overall balance of the game in a way that requires any half-decent player to rethink their strategies.  In a fighting game, even the (seemingly) most subtle changes such as move priority or damage can completely change how the game is played.
This is how sports fans view the same game that they buy every year with tweaks and updated stats. It may alter the balance of the game, but its still just another version of the same game. If you have to be "obsessed" to really notice the differences, then it should be safe for a normal person to argue that they aren't so "drastic".

If you alter any game it can completely change the "dynamic" of how it's played. All you need is a Game Genie to make any game "Super [insert title] Turbo EX Plus". Capcom themselves started making updates to SFII to compete with Game Genie-like hacks.

Like I said, I appreciate updates for street fighting games. But I'm not going to call a normy 'crazy' for not being 1337 enough to know better than to potentially criticize a company for putting out 5 versions of the same game within 3 years. At least the same sports game is put out only once a year.

Keranu's taking heat not even because he might say the games are bad, but simply because he might take Capcom to task for putting out so many versions of one game so quickly.

This kind of attitude towards Capcom in particular (more so than the industry as a whole) is exactly why Keranu made this series in the first place.
Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

Keranu

Well put, especially the last sentence :) .

I personally think that Capcom has got to be the most excessive (whether that's a good or bad thing to you) game company out there, even more so than Nintendo. It's not just SF2, it's also Mega Man, Resident Evil, other SF spinoffs, and probably more. My articles won't only focus on rehashes of course, but also annoying game play features I've found in Capcom games, licensing issues, world domination, and more :) ! There are so many topics regarding Capcom that I could discuss or debate about with people, so I figured it would be best to compile a long, organized, series detailing all of these topics instead of just going at them all at once on nerd forums :P .

Oh and thanks to all of those who have left comments! I'm glad you enjoyed the first volume and I hope you'll continue to enjoy future volumes as well. I want to try to make this appealing to both Capcom haters and fans.
Quote from: TurboXray on 01/02/2014, 09:21 PMAdding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).
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Lochlan

Quote from: guest on 07/12/2008, 01:54 AMThis kind of attitude towards Capcom in particular (more so than the industry as a whole) is exactly why Keranu made this series in the first place.
Well, I was talking about the Street Fighter series specifically -- and as I said, I hoped that my assumption about what Keranu "might" write about the series was incorrect.  I don't think Capcom is infallable nor do I think that criticising sequel-itis is blasphemy.

And as for "highest regarded of the worst offenders" -- this is probably true.

I do wonder if this derivation of gameplay is a bad thing, like the article clearly implies -- or if it's simply a natural evolution of the medium.

Quote from: Keranu on 07/12/2008, 12:57 AMI could make this article about any company, but I chose Capcom because I feel that they aren't criticized nearly as much as other companies like Nintendo or Sony.
Now, maybe not -- I don't know how to gauge this.  In the 90s, the multiple versions of Street Fighter 2 (and the sequels and spin-offs) were the butt of many jokes, as was the seemingly unending Mega Man series.  Ironically, I think you may have chosen the stereotypical scapegoat on this issue to make the focus of your article -- but again, maybe that's not the "popular opinion" anymore, I don't know.

Quote from: Keranu on 07/12/2008, 12:57 AMas the series moves on I'll be able to focus more on other things.
Fair enough -- I just thought that the "derivative games" issue was going to be the main thrust of your serialized argument given this first article.  I suppose I'll have to wait to read the rest to know what your fully-developed argument is.
Quote from: ridgewood_general_store_1 on 08/15/2014, 11:12 AMI'm not sorry about this, as I'm not sorry about ANY attack by the goverrats.

Keranu

Quote from: Lochlan on 07/12/2008, 04:36 AMI do wonder if this derivation of gameplay is a bad thing, like the article clearly implies -- or if it's simply a natural evolution of the medium.
The article may give the impression that it's a bad thing, but I'm just using those examples as foundations for later in the series. For the most part, I think derivation is a natural evolution, but it can be somewhat of a bad thing too when a game has nothing of it's own and takes too much from others.

One point that I felt was strong in the article was dismissing Commando as the first real military run-n-gunner, which some have claimed it to be. Commando simply wasn't the first game of it's kind and didn't bring anything new to the series. It's success may or may not have encouraged SNK to make Ikari Warriors (which I think was really the game to popularize the fad), but Front Line is the first known game to create the formula and Ikari Warriors seemed to have borrowed (or "derived" :) ) more from Front Line than Commando.

Quote from: Keranu on 07/12/2008, 12:57 AMI could make this article about any company, but I chose Capcom because I feel that they aren't criticized nearly as much as other companies like Nintendo or Sony.
Quote from: LochlanNow, maybe not -- I don't know how to gauge this.  In the 90s, the multiple versions of Street Fighter 2 (and the sequels and spin-offs) were the butt of many jokes, as was the seemingly unending Mega Man series.  Ironically, I think you may have chosen the stereotypical scapegoat on this issue to make the focus of your article -- but again, maybe that's not the "popular opinion" anymore, I don't know.
I think one thing that practically everyone can agree with is that Capcom does have a tendency to go a little overboard when making updates and rehashes of games; I just don't think I can write a Capcom rant without mentioning all of them :D .

Quote from: LochlanFair enough -- I just thought that the "derivative games" issue was going to be the main thrust of your serialized argument given this first article.  I suppose I'll have to wait to read the rest to know what your fully-developed argument is.
It's really just looking at who Capcom is and how they started. I don't really have any beef with their early, early games (as opposed to their later ones), I just may as well point out a few criticisms and misconceptions along the way and use them as building blocks for later on.
Quote from: TurboXray on 01/02/2014, 09:21 PMAdding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).
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Sinistron

Personally I love Capcom's classic titles- but this was a good read.  You don't always have to agree with something to get something out of it- or to be entertained.  Good job Keranu.
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Quote from: Tatsujin- ATM it's just amateurish boytoy shizzle.
- they will bust me for consuming drug until they found out what it was in real.

CrackTiger

Quote from: Sinistron on 07/12/2008, 01:18 PMPersonally I love Capcom's classic titles- but this was a good read.  You don't always have to agree with something to get something out of it- or to be entertained.  Good job Keranu.
This pretty much sums up how I feel. I don't normally pick singular favorites, but Capcom is tied as one of my favorite brands. I don't love everything they've put out, but there are so many priceless games they've made that came out at the perfect times in my life that I don't think that they'll ever be able to tarnish their own overall image in my mind (of course, I still feel similar about Sega :wink:).

This is why I was intrigued when Keranu first started to express his 'hated' for them. :P But it became all the more interesting when he quickly drew the wrath of everyone who read any of his blasphemous comments. It seems as though people are only sometimes allowed to theoretically question some of Capcom's single games or series, but as soon as you target the company itself you're out of the gang. [-X
Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

T2KFreeker

This was written quite well man. Good read and I look forward to the rest. U am a huge Capcom fan, but I like to read the different educated opinions from people. Nice! 8)
END OF LINE.

Keranu

Quote from: TurboXray on 01/02/2014, 09:21 PMAdding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).
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esteban

I'll read Volume II... but of course it is all bunk. :)

Capcom = good stuff.
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CrackTiger

I've been meaning to ask you how Volume II was progressing. I'm glad not only that it's finally out, but that it covers a different topic and is not just a run down of each major series and why they suck (I'd still be interested in seeing that too though :wink:).

I'll wait until I have some free time to post some responses. The one comment I'll make is that technically Rambo is just a guy with a red headband. Yet he's so iconic that all you have to do is put a red headband on a character, give them a weapon and people instantly think "RAMBO!" Ryu is recognized by the combination of his red headband and gi. Without the headband, people are more likely to spot someone in a dojo wearing a white gi and think "KARATE KID!" :)
Justin the Not-So-Cheery Black/Hack/CrackTiger helped Joshua Jackass, Andrew/Arkhan Dildovich and the DildoPhiles destroy 2 PC Engine groups: one by Aaron Lambert on Facebook, then the other by Aaron Nanto!!! Him and PCE Aarons don't have a good track record together! Both times he blamed the Aarons and their staff in a "Look-what-you-made-us-do?!" manner, never himself nor his deranged/destructive/doxxing toxic turbo troll gang which he covers up for under the "community" euphemism!

guyjin

Quote from: Keranu on 02/16/2009, 05:58 AMPlaystation - Resident Evil series. A mature game for the more maturely perceived 32-bit system.
Xbox 360 - Dead Rising. Americans like this kind of stuff, put her on the 360!
Wii - Zack & Wiki. Non-violent family entertainment, need I say more?
except resident evil 4 has already come out on the Wii, and Dead rising is about to.

you're wrong about God, and you're wrong about Capcom.  :P :twisted:

Joe Redifer

Capcom IS God!

Turbo D

 =D> The second article is awesome! I agree with so many points in it! Damned Mega Man; I always thought he looked gay in that bikini. lmao. Also, Ryu is the most generic character ever, straight down to that common name (Ryu, sometimes Ryo, is short for tons of common Japanese names.) And another thing!; that Nero guy from dmc4 is an emo bitch! Ya, I said it! He spent most of the game crying and pounding on the ground in a gay childish temper tantrum. I was very disappointed with dmc4. I'd tell you guys the main reason, but I'd rather not spoil it for anyone who was foolish enough to buy it. If all of that wasn't enough to get me pissed off at Capcom, I had to wait to 2 and a half hours in the cold to get into the Street Fighter 4 launch event last thursday. By the time I got in, most of the giveaways had been given away. And I RSVPed! But ya, the launch event was worth it as I got to catch DJ Qbert's second performance. I also got a free Ryu headband and Sf4 poster. Oh ya, I also got to play the game before all of you! :P
Quote from: MissaFX on 01/06/2008, 12:10 PMMy idea of gaming is a couple of friends over, a couple of drinks, a couple of medical-handrolled-game-enhancing-cigs and a glowing box you all worship.
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chop5

my main beef with capcom is some of there games are very,its hard to say,colors look too pastelly to me. one of the main reasons i dont have many capcom 2d games after nes. i can always tell capcom games and graphics just by looking at them. huge pixels too.
AKA jetblue
Gentlemen behold...The chopsado!
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tg-16 region converter or some weird bow tie

Keranu

Quote from: CrackTigerI've been meaning to ask you how Volume II was progressing. I'm glad not only that it's finally out, but that it covers a different topic and is not just a run down of each major series and why they suck (I'd still be interested in seeing that too though ).
Volume II has pretty much been writen for over a month now, it's mostly all the research and editing I do that takes me so long (actually I lied, laziness is the biggest factor). I'm glad you noticed that the different approach I took for this volume because I didn't want the whole series to be dissing individual games either. The next volume will have a historical approach like the first and I'm hoping after that is where I'll get down and dirty and start giving each/most famous Capcom series it's own volumes (some might even have to expand into two). I plan on ending it with a conclusion volume and a "miscellanious" volume that deals with new cheap Capcom tricks I find. Speaking of which, Monster Hunter G on Wii is Crapcom's latest scam, especially since they just announce that it will follow the "Pay to Play" service.

Quote from: guest on 02/16/2009, 09:36 PMI'll wait until I have some free time to post some responses. The one comment I'll make is that technically Rambo is just a guy with a red headband. Yet he's so iconic that all you have to do is put a red headband on a character, give them a weapon and people instantly think "RAMBO!" Ryu is recognized by the combination of his red headband and gi. Without the headband, people are more likely to spot someone in a dojo wearing a white gi and think "KARATE KID!" :)
I was mostly joking about Ryu, even though his boring character design does piss me off (on the other hand, his design doesn't piss me off nearly as much as the overdone designs of SFA and SFIII). I would argue that Rambo's design has more class than Ryu though since he has an awesome mullet. I think even Ryu's original red head design made him stand out a little more than his SF2 and onward versions (I did always like the fact that Alpha made his hair red again since it took place before 2 and then how SF3 made it blue since he was older). By the way, the Karate Kid usually did wear a headband from what I can tell - he could make a great Ryu!

Quote from: guyjinexcept resident evil 4 has already come out on the Wii, and Dead rising is about to.
I was well aware of this when writing it. I admit that RE4 first coming out on Gamecube instead of PS2 is a bit of a mystery, but just because I said that Capcom tends to target audiences doesn't mean they can't wait a year after an excluisve has been released and then port the hell out of it  :mrgreen: . Even though Dead Rising has already been out on 360 for a couple years, Capcom figures they could probably milk a few more bucks out of it by porting it to another system and rejuvinating gamers interest in it. They love doing this trick.

Quote from: Turbo DThe second article is awesome! I agree with so many points in it! Damned Mega Man; I always thought he looked gay in that bikini. lmao. Also, Ryu is the most generic character ever, straight down to that common name (Ryu, sometimes Ryo, is short for tons of common Japanese names.) And another thing!; that Nero guy from dmc4 is an emo bitch! Ya, I said it! He spent most of the game crying and pounding on the ground in a gay childish temper tantrum. I was very disappointed with dmc4. I'd tell you guys the main reason, but I'd rather not spoil it for anyone who was foolish enough to buy it. If all of that wasn't enough to get me pissed off at Capcom, I had to wait to 2 and a half hours in the cold to get into the Street Fighter 4 launch event last thursday. By the time I got in, most of the giveaways had been given away. And I RSVPed! But ya, the launch event was worth it as I got to catch DJ Qbert's second performance. I also got a free Ryu headband and Sf4 poster. Oh ya, I also got to play the game before all of you!
Thanks for the comment! It's always a relief when I get that rare support from another Capcom disser since so few exists. I think the reason why Capcom doesn't get as much criticisim as other companies like Nintendo, Sega, Sony, etc... is because they don't make their own consoles, but really Capcom is at the very least just as guilty as the greed of those mentioned companies. I want to try out SF4, but I'm skeptical since I think all of the frames from the 3D animation might not give it the same kind of reaction and pace as a 2D fighting game. The new KoF, even though it is 2D, is going to have massive amounts of animation too, so I have the same feelings for it too.

By the way, you made me LOL when you said Mega Man bikini!  :lol:

Quote from: chop5my main beef with capcom is some of there games are very,its hard to say,colors look too pastelly to me. one of the main reasons i dont have many capcom 2d games after nes. i can always tell capcom games and graphics just by looking at them. huge pixels too.
Capcom 2D games do have a very distinct look. I think they are talented artists, which is partly why I think they attract so many gamers. When you said the colors look "too pastelly", I immediately thought of the pale colors in The Magical Quest Mickey Mouse game they made. I think Aladdin on SNES had that look too.
Quote from: TurboXray on 01/02/2014, 09:21 PMAdding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).
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geise

The reason most of the games had a distinct look was because of the hardware they were made on.  CPS1 games had the same graphic style just like CPS2  games had the same graphic style.  The same thing can be said about Sega and the System 16 hardware.  Regardless I really like these articles.  I totally understand where you're coming from.  Capcom is not my favorite company,  but their early  titles from my younger days really gave me good times at ther arcade.  BTW I am not a fan of mega man.  It's just a series I could never get into.  Anyways keep writing because this is entertaining material. Thanks for sharing.

Keranu

Thanks for the comment and support! I'm pretty surprised at the positive reactions I've gotten for this as I was originally expecting a lot of biased fanboy posts and pretty much all the comments I get are from Capcom fans. I hope to get Volume III out much earlier than it took Volume II, but currently I am busy with other things that need to be done soon.
Quote from: TurboXray on 01/02/2014, 09:21 PMAdding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).
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Click the banner to learn more about Alex Chiu and his "immortality rings"