TurboDuo audio problems maybe someone can solve?

[PCEngineHell]

Basically its like this.I have a Pc Engine briefcase setup,but there is a U.S. Turbo Duo on ebay right now that seems to be going cheap.In the auction description its listed as having audio problems with the cd audio.It states the data loads fine,but cd audio cuts out about 80 percent of the time.
Is this a cd-drive problem you think,or a overheating problem on one of the chips?If its a overheating problem,then could it maybe be solved by blowing dust out,and maybe installing a cooling fan?Anyway,I know this is a tired subject with some of you,but as I have no experience with Duo systems,the more info I could get,the better off Id be,about choosing to win this thing off ebay.I am willing to bid around $200.00 if its a repairable problem most likely.Anyway,let me know what you think!!!

[TurboHuC6280]

Could be any number of things;  Bad solder joint in the CDROM drive, bad pins, bad DAC.  I doubt it's an overheating issue.  CDROM DACs don't tend to get too terribly hot.

[esteban]

Here are my two cents:  I wouldn't go as high as $200 for a Duo w/ a known problem.  Also, I'd be surprised if it gets that high (unless a bidder was careless and overlooked the item description).  

I'd err on the side of caution and hold out for another Duo.

That's just me, of course.

[dj898]

if you are going to spend that much stick with Duo-R/RX mate...  

[Necro]

From what I have read d-lite (turbo modification guru) has looked into this problem pretty deeply.  The root of the problem is overheating of the system, and I think that after the system starts doing this the damage might have been done already...  Check with him to make sure.  The problem is that the sound amplification chip is very close to the heat source in the duo and that particular chip is only rated for use at up to 80 degrees F or something ridiculously low like that.  There is a fan modification that d-lite does that could fix your problem, but probably is not worth while as it would cost you extra.  Probably best to get a working system or get a Duo-R/RX as dj898 suggests.  They don't have the overheating problem of the Duo and you can get them moded to play both US and Jap hucards.

[TurboHuC6280]

I don't own a DUO (have a briefcase CDROM unit), but I intend to look into some of these issues when I end up buying one.

FYI:  I indend to do some mods as well, as soon as I come up with some 8 pole switches.  

[Necro]

I don't own a DUO (have a briefcase CDROM unit), but I intend to look into some of these issues when I end up buying one.

FYI:  I indend to do some mods as well, as soon as I come up with some 8 pole switches.  

Not sure if you already have the link, but this guy is taking orders for 8-pole switches...

http://www.geocities.com/duo_r@sbcglobal.net/files/Switch.html

[TurboHuC6280]

I don't own a DUO (have a briefcase CDROM unit), but I intend to look into some of these issues when I end up buying one.

FYI:  I indend to do some mods as well, as soon as I come up with some 8 pole switches.  

Not sure if you already have the link, but this guy is taking orders for 8-pole switches...

http://www.geocities.com/duo_r@sbcglobal.net/files/Switch.html

I sent him an email a few days ago and am awaiting a response.  I hope to hear back from him.

[monads]

I have this same problem with a Duo of mine.  I don't know what to do with it except use it as a glorified HuCard player.  I have a brand new Duo in my closet but don't want to use it out of fear that it might one day suffer the same fate.

[TurboHuC6280]

I have this same problem with a Duo of mine.  I don't know what to do with it except use it as a glorified HuCard player.  I have a brand new Duo in my closet but don't want to use it out of fear that it might one day suffer the same fate.

If you ever decide to get rid of it, for a decent price, I'll fix the thing and put the issue to rest.  

I don't think that it can be a terribly complicated problem.  Probably something simple like a bad electrolytic capacitor.

[PCEngineHell]

I say screw the duo then,as it seems so many of you have the audio go bad on them.If it wasnt a big hassle to get it fixed,I would have jumped on it,but after doing research,seeing that this is not a easy fix,as for the most part,heat damage on a major chip is afterall heat damage,and can not be fixed,it just is not worth it.I have a wonderful non-faded briefcase combo,and I will just stick to it.I will just spend the cash and get another briefcase deck,or a U.S. Turbo Cd deck,to use the cd-drive as a replacement part for my Pc-Engine set-up.I have almost 50 games in my collection,so mainly I just want to make sure I have a backup unit available.

[esteban]

I say screw the duo then,as it seems so many of you have the audio go bad on them.If it wasnt a big hassle to get it fixed,I would have jumped on it,but after doing research,seeing that this is not a easy fix,as for the most part,heat damage on a major chip is afterall heat damage,and can not be fixed,it just is not worth it.I have a wonderful non-faded briefcase combo,and I will just stick to it.I will just spend the cash and get another briefcase deck,or a U.S. Turbo Cd deck,to use the cd-drive as a replacement part for my Pc-Engine set-up.I have almost 50 games in my collection,so mainly I just want to make sure I have a backup unit available.

Sorry things didn't work out for you .  You'll find that many folks have had their DUOs w/o experiencing audio problems... but it is always a potential problem (and a big problem).  I guess that is why folks like dj898 recommend the DUO R / RX (the later, cheaper, redesigned Japanese model).

I love the briefcase setup you have and wish I had it.  I have the old TG-CD system myself and haven't had a problem with it (though folks claim it has its own set of problems).  If the CD drives are interchangeable (and I believe you are correct, someone asked this on the TurboList a few months ago) then you'll benefit from a U.S. TG-CD.

Keep in mind that some folks claim the TG-CD has a bunch of problems... there was a thread here that would have collected all this info, but it really never went anywhere.

If you get a chance, please share any links / info you can find on hardware problems.  I'm sure it will benefit many other turbo fans

I tried to find the old topic, but damn, no luck.

[dj898]

i loved my suitecase setup - especially when the seller throw in free SuperGrafx as a bonus...

sold it though for a good money and I was able to get Sega Wondermega from that money...
no I didn't regret since i wasn't using it nor my PC Engine Duo that I sold - it HAD no audio probelm.

[OldRover]

My recollection of issues with the Duo units was that the heat/audio problem only occured in launch units. I had a unit which wasn't an original launch unit and never had problems with it...and I played that thing for days on end (yup, that's right...DAYS on end). The original ones also have, from what I've been reading, a less flexible CDROM drive which is unable to read most CDRs.

[monads]

My recollection of issues with the Duo units was that the heat/audio problem only occured in launch units.

So how can you tell if your unit is a launch unit or not?  I know on the bottom of the Duo is a serial and date.  Would this identify?

[TurboHuC6280]

I've had my "briefcase" American TG16-CD unit for several years now (I think I picked it up in 1998 or 1999 for $70 with a few games).  It's been extremely solid and reliable.  It's in pretty good condition as well.  The CD unit is around 13 years old too (dated 1992 or 1993).  

Recently, I picked up a *brand new* (never used) TG16 deck.  Next, I'll likely find a spare CDROM unit.  This will give me a complete backup.  I may try to buy a Duo, if I can find a good deal on one.

I've been playing my games on a Japanese System 3.0 card (*much* less expensive than the American card), using a "Purple Barney" converter that I picked up for $30 around the time I purchased the CDROM system.  Hard to believe those cheapo converters are so costly these days.  The converter has been very reliable for me as well.  I think that there was only one occasion in which I had to pull it out and push it back in to make better contact.  Soon, I'll be installing a region switch in my Turbo Grafx though, because it's getting to the point at which I play more Japanese games than American games (and using the adapter is a bit annoying now).

The Turbo Grafx CDROM docking station is probably the best value for Turbo gaming, unless you need to buy an adapter to play import Hucards.  Since adapters are becoming so costly (unlike when I purchased mine back in the late '90s), it almost makes it a bad decision to buy one anymore (when you can instead buy a $50 PC Engine system instead, or install a region switch).  Duos, regardless of region, can go for several hundreds of dollars at times (depending upon what is included).  *Brand new* American Duo units run over $500.  Crazy.

The best all-around value for Japanese games though (without any extra effort) is probably a used Duo-R (or RX), unless you buy it on Ebay from someone like "Bullseye's Ripoff Games and Collectibles".  I recall that there were more than half a dozen of the Duo R(X) systems on Ebay at one time about a month ago.  The seem to show up in surges.  I was tempted to buy one, but picked up Dracula X and a brand new Turbo instead.  You can often find an import Duo (of any variety) for around $150 though.  You just have to wait for the right moment.

[xolik]

Pardon my ingorance, but what does the 'briefcase' refrence mean?

 "Bullseye's Ripoff Games and Collectibles"-I like that!  

[TurboHuC6280]

Pardon my ingorance, but what does the 'briefcase' refrence mean?

 "Bullseye's Ripoff Games and Collectibles"-I like that!  

The "briefcases" are the large plastic shells (shaped like a briefcase) that hold the PC Engine (or Turbo Grafx) along with the docking station and CDROM drive.

[pixeljunkie]

My recollection of issues with the Duo units was that the heat/audio problem only occured in launch units.

So how can you tell if your unit is a launch unit or not?  I know on the bottom of the Duo is a serial and date.  Would this identify?

I too would like to know this. I have a Duo that I've had for YEARS, no audio problems....it does wig out when i put CD-Rs in it though, which makes me think it was a launch model. Anyone have any clue on how to tell?

[PCEngineHell]

Ok,for one,yes the U.S. Tg-16 cd-drive and PC Engine cd-drive are the same other then color,and paint job on the lid door decals,and window placement on the door lid.
Known major problem with the Tg-16 cd-drive.
Only 1 that I know of.Sometimes a loading sequence can take a little longer then normal.This is not heat related,and happens randomly.I know this to be a common problem.I have owned 6 Tg-16 cd systems,4 of them brand new right out of the box from Smartworks back in 1995-1996.
The load problem can happen at the begining of play,or whenever.It doesnt matter,as like I said,its not heat related.It pretty much boils down to the technoligy,being from 1988.The cd-eye is moved on a slide bar and a spinscrew that drives it back and forth.This was wonderful and sturdy back in the day,but way not up to standards now.It doesnt allow for the most percise readings sometimes when loading multiple files in different areas for one stage.
A good example of a read falure for this drive is on World Heros 2,it uses a counter to countdown the load times before a fight begins.You can actually whitness a read error and watch the counter go back 30 numbers.
This problem,no matter what anyone will tell you,is also a problem with the white pc-engine cd-drives.I have confirmed this with many import pc-engine game selers.It is a common problem,and there is no fix,and I hate to read that people "tap" their drives to get them to correct themselves.They will correct themselves on their own.They dont need a "tap" at all.
This problem,while some may consider major,in no way compares to the Duo audio problems,and is nowhere near as annoying Im sure.I can deal with 4 seconds extra load time here and there,but missing sound is something else entirely.
Btw,I have purchased a Duo-Rx on ebay from a seller in Hong Kong.
As I have about 50 Pc Engine games,all originals,I couldnt afford to rely on just one deck.
Just for you some more useful info:
Sega CD Model 1 deck problems:
Power failure,drive door open/shut errors,and laser eye burn out.
Sega CD Model 2 deck problems:Not many,very solid units.The worst problem I know of,and I will include a fix, is this:
Samurai Shodown.On Amakusa stage,round 1,the music track plays for a little over 30 secs.After it plays,it doesnt repeat.This causes the laser to shut off.Why is this a problem?Because after you when the round,it needs to load more data for the background change to occur.
Fatal Fury Special:On character select,if you take too long,music will end and not repeat,causing a simular problem.The round wont load.The fix,set up a toggle switch.Wire it up to the door sensor,and use it to make the sega cd deck think your opening and shutting the door.This will cause the deck to start reading back up again,and it will then load the needed data.I dont know if this is a game bug or what,but it only happened on those 2 games,U.S. copies,and both were made by JVC,which really made me wonder.
JVC E-Eye.Makes grinding noise alot,and has a tendency to have the eye go back to the cd spinner and bang against it,after playing to the end of a music cd or what not.
Sega Cd-X.Nothing much but heat related death problems,causing the laser eye to die.

[Necro]

"Bullseye's Ripoff Games and Collectibles"-I like that!  

I have never bought from the guy, but just looking that the manic way that he lists his items on eBay kept me away...  not to mention his auctions that had titles something along the lines of "Turbo Grafx 16 Turbo Duo System collectable"  that is really for a Keith Courage Comic....   IDIOT!  

[pixeljunkie]

Pardon my ingorance, but what does the 'briefcase' refrence mean?

 "Bullseye's Ripoff Games and Collectibles"-I like that!  

I was wondering about this seller....glad I avoided!

[TurboHuC6280]

"Bullseye's Ripoff Games and Collectibles"-I like that!  

I have never bought from the guy, but just looking that the manic way that he lists his items on eBay kept me away...  not to mention his auctions that had titles something along the lines of "Turbo Grafx 16 Turbo Duo System collectable"  that is really for a Keith Courage Comic....   IDIOT!  

I purchased a game from him.  It was "Super Dodgeball".  It took at least a week for it to arrive, shipped from *within the same state* (I've had games arrive faster than that from Japan).  He also claimed it was "mint", and it was not even close.  His feedback has been pretty terrible, and it seems as if people often try to contact him and can't get a response.  When they post negative feedback, he replies with an insult (every time).  He sells printouts as hint/strategy guides.  He never leaves *any* feedback for other users, unless it's negative (in response to their negative feedback).  On top of all of that, his prices are about twice that of everyone else's.

Not the kind of guy I'd really want to buy games from.

Edit:  Was actually a week and a half shipping within the same state.  Worse than I previously had recalled.

[pixeljunkie]

"Bullseye's Ripoff Games and Collectibles"-I like that!  

I have never bought from the guy, but just looking that the manic way that he lists his items on eBay kept me away...  not to mention his auctions that had titles something along the lines of "Turbo Grafx 16 Turbo Duo System collectable"  that is really for a Keith Courage Comic....   IDIOT!  

I purchased a game from him.  It was "Super Dodgeball".  It took at least a week for it to arrive, shipped from *within the same state* (I've had games arrive faster than that from Japan).  He also claimed it was "mint", and it was not even close.  His feedback has been pretty terrible, and it seems as if people often try to contact him and can't get a response.  When they post negative feedback, he replies with an insult (every time).  He sells printouts as hint/strategy guides.  He never leaves *any* feedback for other users, unless it's negative (in response to their negative feedback).  On top of all of that, his prices are about twice that of everyone else's.

Not the kind of guy I'd really want to buy games from.

He seemed shady....but he had a Duo R I wanted...overpriced as hell though. Ended up getting one from D-Lite, who of course kicks ass

[esteban]

He seemed shady....but he had a Duo R I wanted...overpriced as hell though. Ended up getting one from D-Lite, who of course kicks ass

OK, who the heck is D-Lite.  He came up in an older thread (modding systems).  

[esteban]

Known major problem with the Tg-16 cd-drive.
Only 1 that I know of....

THANK YOU for that excellent summary!  I've been eager to hear about these hardware problems since I've heard so many conflicting stories on stuff.  Is your information from reliable sources?  I think we should have a FAQ about hardware issues, and I'll write it if no one else is interested, but I just want to make sure I only include reliable info.

[PCEngineHell]

Its from my own experience,info gathered from 3 import sellers on ebay who deal heavy into pc-engine stuff,a few phone calls made to Smartworks back in the day when I cared to buy so many TG-16 cd decks new,and from managing a used game store,and from the friends,collectors I have dealt with.
Some may not know it,but Smartworks was the company who created the pc to duo cd-drive controller card.They devleoped it for NEC,then NEC wanted to scrap it all,the whole project,as it was the year they were killing off the Duo.To pay off Smartworks,and avoid getting sued,they gave over almost all the new us hardware they had in stock,except for some Duos that were given to TZD to do their Trade in deal,And from what Smartworks told me they were the only one allowed to sell the remainder off the new hardware off.Thi smeans NEW TG-16 decks in box,Duos,Express systems,and the TG-16 CD system.For what its worth,Id have to say the TG-16 CD system had the best package design,it was packed very well,placing the cd-drive in its own small box,helping to avoid shock damage.Overall very typical for NEC anyway.Anyway,I have no idea if Smartworks is even still around anymore.But back then,you could buy a TG-16 cd system for around 50-100 if I remember right,And the price for the TG-16 it self new was about 50 bucks.They offered a combo package too.for around 150.
I dont remember the price for the Duos,or the Express.I never bought one back then,I only played the regular cd games,like Exile,Cosmic Fantasy 2,L-Dis,Vasteel,Buster Bros,Splash Lake,Monster Lair....ect....I never thought in my life Id need a Duo,as I wasnt really that impressed with Gate of Thunder or Godzilla,and I had the Bonks on hucard anyway.
Yea also a side note,TZD was selling the Turbo Cd drives by themselves for 50 bucks back in 2k1.Selling them as replacement parts.Also,the White Pc-Engine Cd-drives was sold by itself in retail shops too as a replacement part.And there was many NEC repair shops to get Pc-Engine hardware fixed or replaced way back in the day.

[Necro]

He seemed shady....but he had a Duo R I wanted...overpriced as hell though. Ended up getting one from D-Lite, who of course kicks ass

OK, who the heck is D-Lite.  He came up in an older thread (modding systems).  

d-lite is hardware modder, he does Neo Geo and Turbo stuff and is very well known, well respected in the Neo community.  Most in the Neo community regard him as the person to go to for Turbo mods and a good choice for Neo mods as well.  I have bought his work from him and couldn't have been more pleased, he is great to deal with.  Here is his website:

http://www.multimods.com/

He is also a member here, but doesn't post much:

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=381

[esteban]

d-lite is hardware modder, he does Neo Geo and Turbo stuff and is very well known, well respected in the Neo community.  Most in the Neo community regard him as the person to go to for Turbo mods and a good choice for Neo mods as well.  I have bought his work from him and couldn't have been more pleased, he is great to deal with.

Excellent.  Thank you. I'm not too interested in mods, but who knows? Maybe one of these days I'll want one

[esteban]

Its from my own experience,info gathered from 3 import sellers on ebay who deal heavy into pc-engine stuff,a few phone calls made to Smartworks back in the day when I cared to buy so many TG-16 cd decks new,and from managing a used game store,and from the friends,collectors I have dealt with.
Some may not know it,but Smartworks was the company who created the pc to duo cd-drive controller card.They devleoped it for NEC,then NEC wanted to scrap it all,the whole project,as it was the year they were killing off the Duo.To pay off Smartworks,and avoid getting sued,they gave over almost all the new us hardware they had in stock,except for some Duos that were given to TZD to do their Trade in deal,And from what Smartworks told me they were the only one allowed to sell the remainder off the new hardware off.Thi smeans NEW TG-16 decks in box,Duos,Express systems,and the TG-16 CD system.For what its worth,Id have to say the TG-16 CD system had the best package design,it was packed very well,placing the cd-drive in its own small box,helping to avoid shock damage.Overall very typical for NEC anyway.Anyway,I have no idea if Smartworks is even still around anymore.But back then,you could buy a TG-16 cd system for around 50-100 if I remember right,And the price for the TG-16 it self new was about 50 bucks.They offered a combo package too.for around 150.
I dont remember the price for the Duos,or the Express.I never bought one back then,I only played the regular cd games,like Exile,Cosmic Fantasy 2,L-Dis,Vasteel,Buster Bros,Splash Lake,Monster Lair....ect....I never thought in my life Id need a Duo,as I wasnt really that impressed with Gate of Thunder or Godzilla,and I had the Bonks on hucard anyway.
Yea also a side note,TZD was selling the Turbo Cd drives by themselves for 50 bucks back in 2k1.Selling them as replacement parts.Also,the White Pc-Engine Cd-drives was sold by itself in retail shops too as a replacement part.And there was many NEC repair shops to get Pc-Engine hardware fixed or replaced way back in the day.

Very interesting.  I never knew about Smartworks or any of the other stuff (i.e. CD units being sold individually, including the white Japanese version).  Very interesting.

I agree that the TG-CD was packaged very well.  The box was HUGE.  The styrofoam was like 2.5 feet thick!  I've never seen any other video game hardware packed like that.  Have you?  Granted, there was that huge plastic "briefcase" for carrying the TG-CD in the box... but still...

[PCEngineHell]

It was typical of NEC back then.Back in the late 80ies to mid 90ies they were very huge into electronics,they seem to make the best TV monitors,with extremely sharp picture quality,and I wont go into their laserdisc players...Not bad over all,espically when compared to Samsung and the crap RCA LD players.But yes,not just the electronics themselves,but the packaging,everything they made was always in a extremely nice packed box of some type.Well cut styrofoam fittings and all,and everything was always nice and tight.Cords,and other items were always well placed in the box and the styrofoam fittings,everything was always perfect,and made you very proud to buy/own something they made.I cant say this for them now.Espically with some of their cd-burners,kinda ugly,crappy packaging,and what not.Goes to show you how great a company can once be,and once that is over,they no longer spare no expense.I miss the old NEC.

[pixeljunkie]

He seemed shady....but he had a Duo R I wanted...overpriced as hell though. Ended up getting one from D-Lite, who of course kicks ass

OK, who the heck is D-Lite.  He came up in an older thread (modding systems).  

I know D-Lite from neo-geo.com forums. He's the go-to guy for all things Turbo/PCE. I just got in my region modded Duo-R today from him. He's a badass.

[dj898]

I had my SGX mod'd by him last year.
it was expensive exercise as I live half way around the world from where he lives but it was worth the effort. I have bad ass SGX with s-video, country switch as well as hucard slot mod.

top block if yo ask me!

[D-Lite]

I love you guys  

I posted a long reply about audio issues in the other thread in the TG16 forum.