Xymati

[Arkhan Asylum]

Coming soon, some coded demo-stuff maybe sometime soon ever?

Not my department, but I've been searching high and low for Fragmare to discuss further movement on the project; seems all we need is a coder - know any?

were booked at Aetherbyte.   but theres always BT if hes available, and wondertom, if he, yeah nevermind.

[lord_cack]

Coming soon, some coded demo-stuff maybe sometime soon ever?

Not my department, but I've been searching high and low for Fragmare to discuss further movement on the project; seems all we need is a coder - know any?

Knowing a coder is the easy part    .... kidding 

[Nate]

were booked at Aetherbutt.   but theres always BT if hes available, and wondertom, if he, yeah nevermind.

Oh! Hadn't considered that, but thanks for the sentiment and the "leads"; those two are obviously the ones most would consider to handle a job like this...and PC Gunjin.

But, rest assured I'll likely be consulting you about "pressing" issues when applicable.

[Arkhan Asylum]

there are no issues with pressing, lol.

If we werent doing what were doing, I already told Fragmare Xymati would be getting worked on

[Nate]

there are no issues with pressing, lol.

I'll never get tired of hearing that. You know I purchased a Duo couple years back with hopes that I would someday (worry-free) insert a replicated copy of Xymati, PC Gunjin, ??? and, it was finally verified with "Insanity"! 

Again, I do appreciate your plausibility in the matter - for the lack of a better "angle"; but, it's apparent that a lot of options will be weighed once the "cards hit the table" as to who will accept the task of doing the "shit work"; and, if by some unknown time you are still available after all resources are exhausted, we might be knocking on your door - perhaps even literally 

BTW I'm alarmed at the odd sense of "COI" and even a thin lining of "competitiveness" that lurks in this small community of PCE enthusiasts lately. Have you noticed it?

[Arkhan Asylum]

Yeah.

but its too bad you sold your copy of Insanity on ebay so now you can't play it anymore. :-/

[Nate]

Hahaha, yeah...that ain't the only gem in my collection that's had to go to pay a bill or two - it's in league with Blast Wind, Dodonpachi and Ikaruga in that regard.

 

[Arkhan Asylum]

Yeah. :-D  can't knock you for paying bills via selling, especially since it went for what, 28$ I think?

a sane price!


theres more of them here if you want a new one haha

[Nate]

theres more of them here if you want a new one haha

Yeah, I never got to beat the game - perhaps someday.

[FraGMarE]

Some news regarding this project.  Xymati development will pick back up after the holidays when Bt has some free time.  Catch is, that the intial release of the game will likely come on Windows/XBLA and then on the PCE at a later time.  The game will still be drawn with PCE limitations in mind, so the PCE port of the game should be somewhat easy when the time comes to do it.  Also, I'd like to finally reveal the manual cover and traycard art i drew up quite some time ago... these will likely be the manual/traycard art for the PCE release, as well as any other releases of the game.  These images are quite large.  Hope you all enjoy them. 

/xymati_booklet_cover01f.png
/xymati_traycard01d.png

[Opethian]

oh wow this looks amazing!

[Tatsujin]

I'm looking sooo FFWD to this, as I never had looked so FFWD to any US games ever.

[ParanoiaDragon]

So, Avuxnia is still planned?  I think I have an old demo of the very beginings of it....or, maybe that's of Neutopia 3.  XBL huh?  How bout giving the PSN some love!  Anyhoo, maybe I'm pushing it, but, what would be the chances of you putting a couple of our games as coming soon as well(we should do this for you & Ark, I don't recall what are cover art is like at the moment).

[Keranu]

"Printed on Dead Trees"

[Tatsujin]

Why not releasing it on the PCE first? Honor to whom honor is due

[Arkhan Asylum]

Sweet.  About time we see some Xymati.

Why not releasing it on the PCE first? Honor to whom honor is due

No foolin'.  Once you write it for the PCE, porting it to the XBox is super easy.

take it from me, since in about one evening or two, a buddy and I ported most of Insanity, if not 90% of it to XNA, lol.

That reminds me, I forgot to mention here that it's being ported to XNA w/ an enhanced mode as well.

Or maybe I did mention it.  I swear I did, in a thread on here somewhere!  The Insanity Fan Art thread maybe?  (That art from StarSoldier is gonna be the box art )

anyway, the reason PSN isn't happening at least in my neck of the woods is that getting everything going for it is expensive and not as accessible as the XNA setup.  XNA requires nothing until publish time, at which point you just get a membership to the code creator club and sexbox live.

PSN involves a ton of nonsense.

though, that also means the PSN has less crapass tech demos with new graphics for 2$

[NecroPhile]

That artwork looks so damn sexy; I can't wait for Xymati's release!  Two player shmup.... fappitty-fap-fap.

P.S. - There's a typo on the case liner; hoardes should be hordes, as in "Tatsujin hoardes hordes of system cards". 

[Tatsujin]

Why not releasing it on the PCE first? Honor to whom honor is due

No foolin'.  Once you write it for the PCE, porting it to the XBox is super easy.

take it from me, since in about one evening or two, a buddy and I ported most of Insanity, if not 90% of it to XNA, lol.

That is not what I meant  Why not releasing it on the PCE first, because honor to whom honor is due 

[BlackandBlue]

I cant wait either way (XBL or PCE), but will eventually pick up both for sure.  XBL makes more sense than PSN since MS has more shooters

Oh, and MS makes it much easier for Indie games

[shubibiman]

I'll buy it for sure if it's ever released.

[Sinistron]

I'll buy it for sure if it's ever released.

Ditto.

[FraGMarE]

That artwork looks so damn sexy; I can't wait for Xymati's release!  Two player shmup.... fappitty-fap-fap.

P.S. - There's a typo on the case liner; hoardes should be hordes, as in "Tatsujin hoardes hordes of system cards". 

Thanks for the typo spot, Necro!    I'll fix it when i get my computer set up.

As for releasing it on XNA before the PCE, that's a decision that Bt has made that I happen to agree with... It will be released to a wider audience, have more playtesters in the alpha stage, and be generally more lucrative.  Due to lack of interest/time from PCE coders (not just Bt), it makes more sense to go this route.  After all, I'd rather see the game released in some form on some kind of platform, than wait around indefinitely for whichever PCE programmer to free up some time to get something rolling on the PCE front.  Once the XNA release is done, if a PCE programmer wants to step up to the plate and code the game for the Super CD-ROM2, then I'll be all for it.  That's why i'm going to continue to draw the rest of the graphics for Xymati (and PC-Gunjin for that matter) with PCE limatations in full effect (9-bit color, single bg layer, sprite/tile limits, etc.)

[nat]

I have a sneaking suspicion that, unfortunately, a Turbo port may never happen now.

[FraGMarE]

I have a sneaking suspicion that, unfortunately, a Turbo port may never happen now.

Eh, I think it will... It just depends on *which* PCE programmer wants to do it and when.  Arkhan has expressed interest in it, after the Retrocade project is complete.  Tom has taken a couple steps in that direction as well.  Like I said, I'd rather have it released somewhere on SOMETHING, rather than risk having all the artwork i've drawn (not to mention all the music that Nate of Vodkatron has composed) go to waste.  If i could program HuC6280 ASM, I'd have already started... but i can't so I'm reliant on others to actually code the game.  If i didn't firmly believe there would eventually be a PCE release, I'd simply start drawing the graphics without PCE restrictions and touch up the old graphics.  But I do believe a PCE programmer will step up and code the game at some point... it's just a question of who and when...

[Tatsujin]

Oh, now there goes a light on

I hope someone can do this job. A non-pce release would absolute no option for me.

[Tatsujin]

P.S. - There's a typo on the case liner; hoardes should be hordes, as in "Tatsujin hoardes hordes of system cards". 

HAHAHA

[ParanoiaDragon]

I was curious.  You mentioned that the XBL version will be just like it was on the Turbo, is that going to include sprite count, bg layers, etc?  Just something that was running thru my mind.

As for XBL, if I had it, I'd buy this in a heartbeat just to support, but, my 360 isn't capable as it's the stupid arcade edition(got it for free), so I'd have to buy one of M$'s proprietary expensive HD's, plus I'd have to sign up for XBL which also costs money.  Wish there was an easier way to get it on PSN.  I'm a sad panda

[shubibiman]

than wait around indefinitely for whichever PCE programmer to free up some time to get something rolling on the PCE front

Does that mean that there hasn't been any programer since the beginning? 

[td741]

As for XBL, if I had it, I'd buy this in a heartbeat just to support, but, my 360 isn't capable as it's the stupid arcade edition(got it for free), so I'd have to buy one of M$'s proprietary expensive HD's, plus I'd have to sign up for XBL which also costs money.  Wish there was an easier way to get it on PSN.  I'm a sad panda

You can use a free XBox Live (Silver) account to purchase games/movies from the XBox Marketplace.
You only need to shell money for gold membership for online multiplayer and a few other features.

You might be able to download small titles to a memory card.  20gig drives should be easy to find used since people probably upgraded to 60/120 or possibly 250gig drives. I've got a spare one lying around if you're willing to pay shipping...  Err.. unless you have the 360 Slim since it won't fit on that model. ;)

[FraGMarE]

I was curious.  You mentioned that the XBL version will be just like it was on the Turbo, is that going to include sprite count, bg layers, etc?  Just something that was running thru my mind.

Yep... sprite count, bg layer, color palettes, resolution, everything.  The only thing I can foresee being different is how the sound effects will sound (obviously) due to the sound hardware being radically different.

Does that mean that there hasn't been any programer since the beginning?

No, Bt started off programming the game(s) but moved on to other things.  I kept drawing graphics in the hopes that someone would pick up the banner, but that has not happened as of yet.  A couple of programmers expressed interest, but nothing has been done on the PCE end yet at this point.  Then Bt recently emailed me to say he wants to start programming the games again, but this time for XNA.  As for the PCE ports of Xymati (and PC-Gunjiin), I guess it'll happen when the PCE dev scene gets its collective head out of its ass and someone can actually finish a project they start.  It's irritating to see people try to juggle about 8 million little demo projects and never finish any of them, and see so many abandoned projects strewn throughout the PCE dev landscape like rotting corpses on a battlefield.  I'd rather have a finished game on some platform or another than keep waiting around on a PCE programmer to show enough dedication to maybe one day do something for the PCE.  You know what they say, you can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which fills up faster...

[lord_cack]

I guess it'll happen when the PCE dev scene gets its collective head out of its ass and someone can actually finish a project they start.  It's irritating to see people try to juggle about 8 million little demo projects and never finish any of them, and see so many abandoned projects strewn throughout the PCE dev landscape like rotting corpses on a battlefield.  I'd rather have a finished game on some platform or another than keep waiting around on a PCE programmer to show enough dedication to maybe one day do something for the PCE.  You know what they say, you can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which fills up faster...

I can tell this comes from someone who developes games. I joined the PCE Scene back in ot-five, First Joining this forum, The Magic Engine Forum, and joining up with the guys over at Frozen Utopia as the idea man. I had never worked with Pixel Art at the point but was dabbling. Then the need to Remake the Remake (Mysterious Song Remake) came up, I took it on. I did a lot of work on it from 2005 till around, 2008 maybe 2009. Its still unreleased. Admittedly not a programming issue entirely there have been tons of things during this games development, I mean if I were a more superstitious person, I would have thought this project were not meant to happen hehe.


In addition to this project there is the Announced Jungle Bros. project which is, as far as graphic development is concerned nearing completion. Now there is sound work, animation work, etc. that needs done. In addition to complete programming.

Then I have loads of tiles for another title, I will NOT announce here, and additional tiles for a title that just sits, waiting for someone to give the go ahead on its development. Not that its even on the board, I have just shown the tiles off to a couple of people. No plans, just an interesting idea hehe. Then if we were to count the games there are concepts for... we are talking a dozen titles.

Point being if we could pool this scenes talent together, get it moving in a positive direction, we could have loads of original, fantastic titles to keep the Turbo/PCE scene vibrant for years....

[Arkhan Asylum]

Yep... sprite count, bg layer, color palettes, resolution, everything.  The only thing I can foresee being different is how the sound effects will sound (obviously) due to the sound hardware being radically different.

Use the PCE and sample it into XNA. 

Point being if we could pool this scenes talent together, get it moving in a positive direction, we could have loads of original, fantastic titles to keep the Turbo/PCE scene vibrant for years....

Yeah.  It would be nice. 

[lord_cack]

Point being if we could pool this scenes talent together, get it moving in a positive direction, we could have loads of original, fantastic titles to keep the Turbo/PCE scene vibrant for years....

Yeah.  It would be nice. 

I think that part of the problem is that, as we have seen on numerous occasions, there are a few people who, when a "Homebrew" game shows its self, are quick to come out and dog it till there is nothing left but smack talk. Then the forum thread gets locked.... you know what Im saying?

Why can't people just enjoy the fact that a game is coming out and if it isn't what they would like, not buy it and just let things happen.... That would help this community alot.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I think the real problem isn't so much the naysayers, as it is some other reasons, and I'm going to sound like a total dick when I say this, but screw it.

The reason shits not getting done is due to some self centeredness, and ego-fueled bullshit, as opposed to gittin' r done. 

As far as the PCE is concerned, I created Aetherbyte and set out to do the following:
--Make Games.  I have lots of ideas for games, and its fun to bring western arcade games from the 80s to the PCE, all enhanced-like, even if they rate like a 6/10 to some people.
--Tackle the dreaded PSG mountain thats been bitchslapping the community for like a decade or more.

Done, and done.

I myself don't give two shits about piddlyfuck little tech demos at this point, or crap that makes the PCE function like an Amiga or some noise.  I really don't.  We all have access to everything.  If you want to listen to mods, use a mod player. ffs. 

The tech demo thing was alright to lay the ground work for the PCE scene, but lets step back and look at this.

Today, in the later half of 2010, we have:

Meteor Blaster
Implode
Insanity
Squirrel (To make fully functional chiptune soundtracks for games, as demonstrated thoroughly)
MSR on the horizon
Touko's stuff
Graphical work done for a Dragon Quest game, Xymati, Gunjin, and who the hell knows what else
music for some of these games too. 

It's clear between these things ^^^,the demos/stuff on Zeograd.com, and the wealth of documentation now available, that we don't need anything but games.  Its a game console.  It needs new games, not new "take it to the brink" crap that isn't even really that useful in a game. 

I'm not knocking what has been done in the past.  Being that the PCE was a closed platform, having a good chunk of stuff to learn from on top of documentation is/was important.  Theres enough of it floating around now.  Games are what we need, and games are what we want.

If whatever's being done doesn't directly relate to a game project, its a waste of time and isn't contributing to the non-coding community.

We're outnumbered by people who have no clue, no time, or no desire to program games.  It's our job to deliver them nice things to keep the system alive.

Not too many people benefit from a non-interactive demo, or some shit, where only maybe 10 people actually understand/give a damn about what its even doing.

If I weren't a programmer, all I would want is things where you move stuff around with the controller, press buttons, and interact.  They're called video games, and I would want those more than anything.


Thats my story, and Im sticking to it.

[lord_cack]

Seconded Arkhan and to highlight a couple of points I feel are very important....

It needs new games, not new "take it to the brink" crap....

I think that this part of your comment is a very important comment. I think that some people think the games they have to make MUST push the system. I think there is an elitist group out there.... that oddly enough only rears its ugly head when Homebrew is SERIOUSLY mentioned.... that is helping to tear down the community as well. Every new game must be Sapphire equivalence or its not worth the effort so give up. I think in part this leads to some of the....

self centeredness, and ego-fueled bullshit, as opposed to gittin' r done.

Now I think that with what we have seen recently in these forums has been a great sign of things in the community. These game giveaway contests.... GREAT. Its the COMPLETE opposite of this community nine months ago. When you come to these forums recently its not all buy/sell bull shit. People are actually talking about THE GAMES again, the SYSTEMS again. Its nice.

Now I think what needs done the most is for people to step up, who REALLY want to make games, and start extending hands of friendship and interweb kindness, across developmental and personal lines,  give of there time and talent to do what needs done. We all come on and talk a good game, "love the community, love the games, wanna make more games" but when it gets down to it, real life is the crutch that breaks the homebrews back.

I'm not gonna call people out and say that real life isn't the reason but I have a very full schedule but find time to put in an hour or so a week to development. Now if all the people involved in projects could manage to get on task and give up an hour or two a week to solid development things would begin to roll. I would almost guarantee it.... or hell cross developmental group lines and give each other a f#$kin hand when your own development teams projects take a break. That would help tons.

Also, before its mentioned.... I'm not a hypocrite, I must Confess, I'm Lord_Cack Pixel Artist, Mysterious Song Remake and Jungle Bros. Frozen Utopia Development Group and Pyramid Plunder Aetherbutt Studio and I approve this message

[lord_cack]

Hell, to continue a bit, I don't even know who all in this community can do what. I mean, I know Keranu (Sprite Artist), Arkhan (Programmer, Chip Tunes), Paranoia Dragon (Music), Myself(Tile Art), fragmare (Tiles, Sprites.... not sure what else, this is just what I have gotten from his posts), The Old Rover (Programmer).... thats my extent of knowledge on who in this community can do what.

It would be nice in the spirit of solidarity and intercommunity unity if anyone who could do (Program, Pixels, Sprites etc.), would come on and list what they can do (and are willing to do for that matter).... maybe we could start coming together and working together.... just an idea

When it gets right down to it, we are making games for a system that has, for all intents and purposes, been dead and in the ground for going on twenty years. Its not as if anyone is going to be making a mint off the games we are making. Heck in the end, if your gonna go producing CD's and Instruction Manuels and such, its probably gonna cost you nearly more than you make.... ask around. Don't get discouraged, if your in it for the cash, make XBOX games.... but Im not in it for that.... it would be nice, but Im not. I love the Turbo/PCE and wanna make games for it.

So where is the community in our development community. I am sure there are people out there willing to make games just to make them. I know for a fact I have a game in mind that I would love to just release as a PCE file and just allow people to have. Not a tech demo, a full on, multi level game. But, I can't program so it sits in my "Pixel Art" Folder and waits....

[NecroPhile]

Today, in the later half of 2010, we have:

Meteor Blaster
Implode
Insanity
Squirrel (To make fully functional chiptune soundtracks for games, as demonstrated thoroughly)
MSR on the horizon
Touko's stuff
Graphical work done for a Dragon Quest game, Xymati, Gunjin, and who the hell knows what else
music for some of these games too. 

Don't forget Tongueman's Logic.  It's probably my favorite homebrew game thus far; it's just unfortunate that you have to have a flash cart to play it.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Oh right, I always forget about Tonguemans Logic.  I was focusing on strictly "released on a thing fo' reals" stuff.

Tonguemans Logic looked great, but I don't like picross games so I have no place commenting on the fun-factor.  If you like picross, I hear its legit.

So where is the community in our development community. I am sure there are people out there willing to make games just to make them. I know for a fact I have a game in mind that I would love to just release as a PCE file and just allow people to have. Not a tech demo, a full on, multi level game. But, I can't program so it sits in my "Pixel Art" Folder and waits....

I think you know that answer to this.  lol

[Gogan]

I'd be willing to help.

Not so much on the programming side, but I did graduate college in the graphic arts department, so I'm fairly handy with photoshop.  Am a busy person, with a full time job, freelance after my job, and in a very active band.

But still, I could squeeze some time in to help where I'm needed.

Haven't really dabbled much with pixel art, but I'm willing to learn and contribute.

[OldMan]

Okay, I've been holding my tongue until now. Just keep in mind this is only my -opinion-. I'll go get the fire extinguisher now....

fwiw, the quotes aren't attributed to anyone (you can look them up yourself and see who said what) because I can just barely figure out how to do the quotes :-)
Programming, yet. Internet, no.

No, Bt started off programming the game(s) but moved on to other things...

As for the PCE ports of Xymati (and PC-Gunjiin), I guess it'll happen when the PCE dev scene gets its collective head out of its ass and someone can actually finish a project they start

Need I really say anything? Insanity got finished.

In addition to this project there is the Announced Jungle Bros. project which is, as far as graphic development is concerned nearing completion. Now there is sound work, animation work, etc. that needs done. In addition to complete programming.

In other words, the game actually needs to be written.

I think that some people think the games they have to make MUST push the system. I think there is an elitist group out there....

Absolutely. No programmer wants to do a 'so-so' job; if it's not doing something new, what's the point?

You know what they say, you can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which fills up faster...

You know what else "they" say? If you want something done.....

I have a very full schedule but find time to put in an hour or so a week to development

That's about enough time for me to figure out what I was doing in the code last. Seriously. You need 5-6 hours stretches of time to get any real programming done.

I know for a fact I have a game in mind

Do you have an actual game in mind, or just a bunch of artwork? Do you know how the game is gonna operate? What effects you want? How it's gonna play?
And just as importantly, are you willing to play the game until you are sick of it - and then some? Cause that's what it takes to get a game made. A -very- detailed explanation of what you want, and months of repetative testing to find the bugs....

I love the Turbo/PCE and wanna make games for it.

Then start now. 2 years ago arkhan was just learning to program. You could have a game ready in 2-3 years, too.
And he took time off to put together squirrel along the way...

< start rant>
Personally, I think the community needs a few more programmers - and a few good designer, too. As far as I'm aware, you can count them on 1 hand. Graphics people out the rear, but programmers..... Good luck finding one.

From personal experience (I've been through this with lots of other people, who -all- "Want to write a game"),
I will say that until you're willing to learn to program, It's just another idea. Anyone can have them. The trick is being willing to put the effort into it to learn how it's done. You may never write actual code, but *you have to be able to explain things to people who do*. That's one of the things Arkhan had to learn the hard way. We spent hours going over and over the same section of Insanity until he could tell me -exactly- what had to happen.

It's really not enough to say, "if the shot hits the guy, he blows up", is it Arkhan? What exactly do -you- consider a hit? Are you looking at a box around the guy, or an exact pixel-level touch? Are you willing to live with the time it takes to do that touch? And what about blowing up? Is it one frame, and he's gone? An explosion? How long does it last?.... Well, hopefully, you get the idea by now.

And for everyone who says, "I've got this artwork, let's make a game"... I know you invested a lot of time making it look really nice. But let's get serious - the artwork is one of the -last- things you need to make a game. A programmer doesn't care how pretty things are; crappy placeholder graphics are fine, until you know the game is going to play right. You might have spent 10 hours or so on that sprite, but the programmer is going to spend 10x that time getting it moving correctly. And another 10x (easily) tracking down and fixing bugs. Insanity took almost a year to write. That's a -lot- of time to spend on a game, and we could have easily done more. So your 10 hours with photoshop doesn't impress me.

You want me to help writing a game? Get it designed first, then. Go over and over the design until I can ask you if something is a char or an int  (1 byte or two), and you can tell me. AND tell me why it is. And -never, never, ever- tell me "There's bug. Fix It". If you can't tell me exactly how to duplicate the problem, so I can see it myself, it's not a priority for me. Come back when you can.

The one common thing I've learned from many session with people who "Want to write a game" is that what they -really- mean is "I want someone to write the game for me, so I can make money off it". If that's you, go get a job and stop trying to screw people. Cause that's why they walk away mid-project. You're expecting them to do it all....And they are already doing the hard part.
<end rant>

[Arkhan Asylum]

Yeah if there was one thing I learned from Insanity....

a simple looking/playing game isn't so fucking simple under the hood.

so many "oh, crap" cases popped up while implementing the game.

Having promising artwork is great, but until its being used in a game, its just a tease.  Mockups don't do it for me.  I could photoshop a keith courage/bonk hybrid RPG, doesnt mean its a game yet.

and having a *SERIOUS* docmentation on the design of the game is crucial.  It's easier to just follow the directions you wrote yourself than it is to do it all on the fly, realize something isn't right, and then having to go wing it some more as you backtrack and change the game around.

If you plan it all out before you start coding, it turns out better, and usually gets done faster.

[lord_cack]

All of that is fair enough, I do really just have moch ups for the "game idea" just lying around. The game that I "will NOT" tell people about is an actual working work in progress. It has an engine but its on the back burner because of the other projects in the works and its sheer size and scope. Now:

In addition to this project there is the Announced Jungle Bros. project which is, as far as graphic development is concerned nearing completion. Now there is sound work, animation work, etc. that needs done. In addition to complete programming.

In other words, the game actually needs to be written.

No there is an engine up and running for this one as well. Had a bit of time to tinker with it before RL slowed things. Also, the game is fully documented. I have also put in 3 (going on 4) years work on the graphics/level design, enemy design, game mechanic design, and discussed them with the programmer as much as I could. This project is being held up by RL and MSR. Keranu has put in work on sprites. The project lost its original tunes guy and Paranoia Dragon has been nice enough to lend his fantastic talents to this project and has recently started working on sound. I'm not just a lone person stomping around and pouting because he can't get anyone to make his game. I am an active part of a development team. My job is to pitch the moch ups and discuss the game concepts and develop the title. Thats how we general at Frozen Utopia work on things. But, we work together as a team.

I mentioned my back burner project because I had already mentioned it to Arkhan as a concept for a game that he and I could work on later down the road as a possible Aetherbutt Studio release thus the:

I think you know that answer to this.  lol

If I was picking up what Ark was laying down.

None of my comments were made out of anger, annoyance, or anything other than matter of factness. I was merely commenting on the general discussion being held. Wasn't trying to place blame, and most certainly wasn't begging for someone to do it all for me. Just saying that there is what seems to be a wealth of eager talent in this community and I thought that if we at least knew who we all were we could get some of these ideas out of the moch up stage and into the working stage. Then if we worked hard get them into the released stage.

And I can't wait to play Jungle Bros. till my eyes bleed to make sure its the best game it can be.

One more thing though:

I think that some people think the games they have to make MUST push the system.

I wasn't saying we should release crap for the sake of making it. I was saying that not every game is Sapphire. Not every game ever released is the top of the line. There are some very fun games that don't have Multi scrolling parallax, special wave effects, and whatever other things you can throw at it. I mentioned this for the very fact that there were people who dogged Insanity because it wasn't "system pushing technology" big deal.... ITS FUN. Thats what I said. I mean there is Jimmi Hendrix and the Experience then there is The Ramones.... I love them both, but Jimmi pushed the limits and The Ramones used three power chords....

[OldMan]

Sorry, I mis-understood a few things....

It has an engine but its on the back burner because of the other projects...

I know the feeling. Other things got be to more important than perfecting the squirrel/HuCard routines. <sigh>

In other words, the game actually needs to be written.

I took the "complete programming" to mean it hadn't been started yet. I assume you meant "completing programming". ( In which case, My Bad. I forget people typo :-)

My job is to .... develop the title.

Thank God! Another designer :-) Someone who understands planning!

I wasn't saying we should release crap for the sake of making it.....Jimmi pushed the limits and The Ramones used three power chords....

Nope. If the game can't do -something- different, I see no point in making it at all.
And I think both groups 'pushed the limits', but in different ways; Jimi in how the guitar was played, and the Ramones in what was said in a song.

And I can't wait to play Jungle Bros. till my eyes bleed to make sure its the best game it can be.

You'll come to regret posting that, someday. I think Insanity ruined even the real bezerk for me :-)

I wasn't trying to be cutting or mean either, but I've had dozens of people come to me who want to learn to make a video game. Most of them make it about 2 weeks, then give up complaining it's "too hard". I was just trying to make all those "me, too" people think twice about it. It's -not- as easy as people think it is. (But, you would understand that)

Just a few general questions for you, since I know Arkhan is gonna need help...

1) HuC or assembler? A mix of both?
2) Command line or windows? Batch files or make?
3) Do you have a central repository the team can look at, or is one guy responsible for all the code and resource management?

And just so you know, we tend to:

1) Use Huc to rough things out, then kick to assembler for speed where needed.
2) I like a command line, Arkhan seems to prefer windows - but he's pretty good with a command line, too.
   Once I weaned him away from batch files, he learned to use make. Don't know if he actually likes it or not,
   but it does allow us automate the whole build process - external tools and all. Sometimes that's tricky in a batch file. Unfortunately, neither one of us is really good at creating make files.. :-(
3) We used a local svn for insanity; the one for pp got really screwed up, so right at the moment I have all the source on my local machine. Guess that puts me in charge of the code, though Ark knows I'll send a zip if he wants to re-build it. When we get to play-testing, I'll have to fix the svn so we can both do commits. And maybe talk to my network guru, and figure out how to get external access. (Right now it's local to my house sub-net)

[Arkhan Asylum]

Commercial quality != Top of the line quality.  Lots of commercial titles weren't always graphical powerhouses.  You can make some pretty good commercial stuff without spending months and months trying to get some scrolling uber effect.

A few examples of this are

Bonk 1: Certainly an amazing game, but it doesn't do alot on-screen really.  Its the playability and charm of the game that make it so great.
Shockman: Same sort of deal.  The gameplay is tight though, and so it results in an enjoyable game.

I'm not trying to say theres no need for fancy dancy effects.  It just seems like thats a giant focus.  Screw it.  games dont NEED parallax to be great pieces of software.  If you can work it in and its nice, cool.  If not, I won't knock anyone.

None of us are getting paid hourly to sit in a lab and code this stuff all day. 

You can't expect top notch commercial quality out of spare-time projects.  You also can't expect tight deadlines to be met. 

I again point to the MSX scene.  Every year they have games coming out.  Some are simple in comparison to PCE standards, but there are alot of solid games that aren't always pushing the limits.  They're just fun, highly playable games that are worth picking up for your own pleasure and to support the people doing it.

I think that is one of the greatest things about Retrocade.  It's a handful of short but sweet games.  You're not going to go on an epic quest to save the world from aliens or demons.  You're not going to run and gun your way through 15 action packed stages of parallax scrolling, pushed to the brink graphics, and you're not going to be experiencing intense, ball throbbing action the entire time.

What you are going to be experiencing though, is some pretty nice quality 1980s style arcade fun, just like you remembered it, with a bit of PCE flair to it.

If Defender works out as good as I hope, sales for turbo-sticks may shoot through the roof.

[spenoza]

I think making clones of old arcade games (like Berzerk and Defender) is a great way to learn the ins and outs of game design and basic coding. Those older titles are usually fairly simple and a bit repetitive, but they also have a certain amount of appeal and addiction as well, otherwise people wouldn't keep looking back to them for inspiration. It's not hard to find adequate graphics to fill in for those kinds of titles, either. And once you've become comfortable working with those, then you can move on to harder tasks, such as games with longer scrolling levels and varied character behaviors and sprite interactions. I definitely think that's the way to go.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I think making clones of old arcade games (like Berzerk and Defender) is a great way to learn the ins and outs of game design and basic coding. Those older titles are usually fairly simple and a bit repetitive, but they also have a certain amount of appeal and addiction as well, otherwise people wouldn't keep looking back to them for inspiration. It's not hard to find adequate graphics to fill in for those kinds of titles, either. And once you've become comfortable working with those, then you can move on to harder tasks, such as games with longer scrolling levels and varied character behaviors and sprite interactions. I definitely think that's the way to go.

Yep.  and believe it or not, some of these old arcade games have more complexities than what you'd think!

alot of things you have to plan for.  Its good stuff.  Defender itself is basically a horizontal shmup test-drive.  *wink wink*

[spenoza]

Yeah, as a shooter game Defender was actually pretty complex for its time, what with the various enemy types and behaviors.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Yeah, as a shooter game Defender was actually pretty complex for its time, what with the various enemy types and behaviors.

Yeah, and the whole 'having to catch humans and save them' part.  Its pretty wicked

[Ceti Alpha]

Yeah, as a shooter game Defender was actually pretty complex for its time, what with the various enemy types and behaviors.

Yeah, and the whole 'having to catch humans and save them' part.  Its pretty wicked

Defender R.O.C.K.S. The GBA has a nice updated version of Defender as well, though without the proper button layout it's just not the same.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Defender is one of my favorite arcade games, so I hope to do it some justice on the turbob.

It should be what happens if you smash deep blue and defender together.

so knowing my luck we will get:

Defender:  Action packed, challenging, fun!
Deep Blue: 90% of the world hates it.

SWEET.

lol