Observation of Cadash on TG vs Cadash on Genesis

spenoza · 03/21/2009, 12:24 PM

I took a gander and the ROM files for both versions of Cadash are the exact same size, yet the TG version has an additional 2 characters, not to mention better graphics all around. I think the TG version's sound also holds up to the Genesis version. Frankly, I can't find anything to like in the Genesis version over the TG version, and yet both ROMs are the same size. Should I read anything into this about the difference in how efficient the graphics and sound storage formats are on the respective systems?

Arkhan Asylum · 03/21/2009, 05:09 PM

Well, the music on the Genesis might take more space since its a more advanced sound setup.... other then that I have no real idea...

but, it's like what I said to someone about Exile on PCE CD vs. Genesis

"Exile on PCE is like bangin' a super model, and Genesis is like banging an old lady you wished was a super model."

Joe Redifer · 03/21/2009, 09:03 PM

It's been a long time since I've played Cadash, but perhaps the extra background layer of scrolling takes up a bit of space vs only one BG per any given level for the TG/PCe version. I wouldn't read much into it, though. They aren't exactly the same game even though they share the same names and basic premise.

Arkhan Asylum · 03/21/2009, 09:22 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/21/2009, 09:03 PMIt's been a long time since I've played Cadash, but perhaps the extra background layer of scrolling takes up a bit of space vs only one BG per any given level for the TG/PCe version. I wouldn't read much into it, though. They aren't exactly the same game even though they share the same names and basic premise.

Thats true... Genesis has more to the graphics.

That and maybe the CPU instruction set (16 bit 68000) takes more space than the 65SC02 in PCE....

mostly just goony stuff like that.

PC Engine's Cadash kicks so much ass though that theres no comparison!

TurboXray · 03/21/2009, 11:11 PM

Quote from: guest on 03/21/2009, 05:09 PMWell, the music on the Genesis might take more space since its a more advanced sound setup.... other then that I have no real idea...

but, it's like what I said to someone about Exile on PCE CD vs. Genesis

"Exile on PCE is like bangin' a super model, and Genesis is like banging an old lady you wished was a super model."

Hey, the Genesis version of Exile isn't that bad. The music's pretty good too. It's more like banging an in-her-mid-to-late 20's kinda-hawt-but-not-super-model-hawt lady.

TR0N · 03/22/2009, 02:50 AM

Never,made much sense to me that the genesis version lack the ninja and priest.I offen wounder if was offen due to memory...or taito just being sloppy.While with the TG16 version you got all the characters.As for graphics it seems like the genesis version was close as you could get to the arcade.Even if the "TG16" version falled short in that deparment i still prefer it more.Taito did a good enough job at least making...the TG16 version play like it's arcade counter part.

Btw some body should make a video and compare the two

Joe Redifer · 03/22/2009, 03:31 AM

I will! However first I need somebody to donate mint/complete copies of both of the US versions!

OldRover · 03/22/2009, 08:11 AM

The Genesis version was an abomination, and the arcade graphics were not that impressive to begin with.

Tatsujin · 03/22/2009, 11:18 AM

Quote from: OldRover on 03/22/2009, 08:11 AMand the arcade graphics were not that impressive to begin with.

on that i can't really agree. consolized version aren't really comparable to the superior arcade when it comes to graphics. anyhow, the pce def. comes up the best gameplay.

Joe Redifer · 03/22/2009, 11:48 AM

I agree with Tats. The Turbo version is by far the most fun.

awack · 03/22/2009, 04:59 PM

I didn't feel like resizing the genesis shots so just imagine them being smaller, the pce is much more colorful and tends to be more detailed with better animated sprites, the genesis version looks more like the arcade with larger sprites, the genesis cadash is one of the most grainy and dark looking games Ive seen but i must say that i don't like the color palette in the pce version very much at all.

CrackTiger · 03/22/2009, 05:03 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/21/2009, 09:03 PMIt's been a long time since I've played Cadash, but perhaps the extra background layer of scrolling takes up a bit of space vs only one BG per any given level for the TG/PCe version. I wouldn't read much into it, though. They aren't exactly the same game even though they share the same names and basic premise.

I think that layer bgs like on those used for the Genesis version should take up less space, since all the clear sections of the main layer would just be a single color and the distant background just some repeating tiles. On a single layer bg like the Turbo/PCE version, all the parts where the distant bg meet what would've been the main layer, will require extra art/detail/original tiles.

It is unfortunate that the extra characters got cut, since overall it shouldn't have meant too much extra memory. I'd have rather lost some original background art on part of a stage or two and kept all 4 characters.

nat · 03/22/2009, 06:26 PM

I don't know, from the screenshots, I kind of like the look of the Genesis version better. The TurboGrafx version looks really cartoonish.

spenoza · 03/22/2009, 08:28 PM

I'm playing through the Genny version now, and then I'm going to go back to the TG version. I'm playing the fighter, and while his sprite is taller it actually looks less detailed than the TG version. The Genny's music is closer to the arcade, but that's solely by virtue of the FM synth. I'm still at a loss as to why the PCE hardware design didn't incorporate a little additional FM synth considering the Famicom Disk Drive did.

The level graphics are a little smoother, in that they flow a little better, but the color counts are just so low. The TG version looks more tiled, but the GEN version looks so bland. The lack of colors make all the larger sprites, for characters and enemies, look less detailed rather than more.

awack · 03/22/2009, 09:05 PM

Last of the screens.

Keranu · 03/22/2009, 11:28 PM

I've also been fond of the super colorful graphics of the TG Cadash. Has a great atmosphere to it, as well as the music. Feel like playing it now!

Tatsujin · 03/23/2009, 01:47 AM

wow..in that last battle, the PCE is def. superior to the GEN. also i like how they show the size comparison when the fighter is in the dwarfs village. in the GEN version he looks just the same size as the darfs. oh.. ehrm.. wait.. may be.. those are not dwarfs.. b.. but santa clauses?

Arkhan Asylum · 03/23/2009, 01:58 AM

Its strange. Sometimes the genesis screen is better and other times the PCE one is

overall the PCE one has a better experience. It just plays better for whatever reason

nat · 03/23/2009, 02:39 AM

In the second round of screens, it looks like the TG version is definitely superior. In the first, the Genesis version is unquestionably better looking. Strange. Except the dwarf village, I think that looks better on the Genesis, mainly because of the trees.

PCEngineHell · 03/23/2009, 04:59 AM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 03/23/2009, 01:47 AMwow..in that last battle, the PCE is def. superior to the GEN. also i like how they show the size comparison when the fighter is in the dwarfs village. in the GEN version he looks just the same size as the darfs. oh.. ehrm.. wait.. may be.. those are not dwarfs.. b.. but santa clauses?

Dont you shrink in the TG/PCE port also, in order to be able to enter the buildings? I cant remember for sure, I haven't played to that part since probably 1996. I always liked the Tg port more. It def isnt arcade exact graphically, but it isn't missing out either. Its basically a complete redo visually. For me it was more pleasing to the eye.

Ceti Alpha · 03/23/2009, 09:05 AM

Yeah, the second round goes to the TG. The lack of colours on the Genesis is really apparent in these comparisons.

TurboXray · 03/23/2009, 12:16 PM

I think TG version looks better in both rounds of screen shots. All screen shots overall look better on the TG. There's a few bits I do like in the Genesis one though, like the tree's in the dwarf village - but the houses and characters looks bad. The TG shots all have more unique tiles than its counter parts too.

spenoza · 03/23/2009, 05:04 PM

I am sort of confused as to why the TG version is the way it is. I prefer it overall, but it seems to me they could easily have kept a higher color count and used a less tile-based arrangement. It also seems that some of the differences in the TG version are to reduce sprite counts, which is interesting, because the game never pushes anywhere close to the sprite limit.

NecroPhile · 03/23/2009, 05:22 PM

Quote from: PCEngineHell on 03/23/2009, 04:59 AMIt def isnt arcade exact graphically, but it isn't missing out either. Its basically a complete redo visually. For me it was more pleasing to the eye.

Exactly. It isn't an exact graphical port (nor did it try to be), but it certainly captures the great gameplay mechanics.

TR0N · 03/23/2009, 10:48 PM

Quote from: guest on 03/23/2009, 05:22 PM
Quote from: PCEngineHell on 03/23/2009, 04:59 AMIt def isnt arcade exact graphically, but it isn't missing out either. Its basically a complete redo visually. For me it was more pleasing to the eye.
Exactly. It isn't an exact graphical port (nor did it try to be), but it certainly captures the great gameplay mechanics.

Sure is that's what makes the TG16 version great it's play mechanics.Btw some body please make a video to compare the arcade,genesis,tg16.Screen shots that are showen here show the difference but i still like to see a video in action of it.There's been ones for ff2 and ffs on youtube all ready.

TurboXray · 03/23/2009, 11:04 PM

The sprites are shorter on the PCE one, but just as wide or wider than the Genesis port. Which is weird because vertical length doesn't effect flicker. I assume it was to save space (looks like it saves a whole 16x16 sprite) or just a design decision. I mean, the octopus is just as large between the two versions.

/cadash_pce_1.png
/Cadash_1_md.png

Duo_R · 03/24/2009, 05:39 AM

nice screenshots! Now one question i have on the game, I found a code for the TG-16 version that says it allows you to actually continue, but I could not get it to work. Does anyone know if this was just bogus?

QuoteWhen the game ends, and you're brought to the title screen, hold I + II + Down, then press Run

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/turbo16/code/588919.html

http://www.cheating.co.nz/cheats/22279/TurboGrafx%2016/Cadash.html

Can someone give this a shot?

Joe Redifer · 03/24/2009, 12:01 PM

Doesn't the Turbo version feature a SAVE function, thus eliminating the need for a continue?

NecroPhile · 03/24/2009, 12:14 PM

Quote from: Duo_R on 03/24/2009, 05:39 AMCan someone give this a shot?

I don't recall ever trying this one, as why would you ever die (

)? If somebody doesn't beat me to it, I'll try it out tonight and report back.

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/24/2009, 12:01 PMDoesn't the Turbo version feature a SAVE function, thus eliminating the need for a continue?

No.

awack · 03/24/2009, 01:44 PM

QuoteDont you shrink in the TG/PCE port also, in order to be able to enter the buildings?

Yea, you have to enter from the left side to obtain the item that allow you to shrink and enter the buildings.

Oh, if there are any comparisons any body would like to see, hu card, CDrom2, super CD, or arcade card in comparison to snes or genesis/sega CD, let me know, i will try and resize the shots for a more accurate comparison.

hoobs88 · 03/24/2009, 02:10 PM

Quote from: Duo_R on 03/24/2009, 05:39 AM
QuoteWhen the game ends, and you're brought to the title screen, hold I + II + Down, then press Run

Never tried the code for Cadash but it does work for another Working Designs title...it allows you to access the Parasol Stars Toybox.

TurboXray · 03/24/2009, 10:37 PM

Quote from: awack on 03/24/2009, 01:44 PM
QuoteDont you shrink in the TG/PCE port also, in order to be able to enter the buildings?
Yea, you have to enter from the left side to obtain the item that allow you to shrink and enter the buildings.

Oh, if there are any comparisons any body would like to see, hu card, CDrom2, super CD, or arcade card in comparison to snes or genesis/sega CD, let me know, i will try and resize the shots for a more accurate comparison.

Do a SNES Emerald Dragon comparison to the PCE CD port. Be careful about using the translation patch version, as NightCrawler altered the game palette IIRC.

Duo_R · 03/25/2009, 12:52 AM

thats interesting, a WD code. Now has anyone tested it yet?

Quote from: hoobs88 on 03/24/2009, 02:10 PM
Quote from: Duo_R on 03/24/2009, 05:39 AM
QuoteWhen the game ends, and you're brought to the title screen, hold I + II + Down, then press Run
Never tried the code for Cadash but it does work for another Working Designs title...it allows you to access the Parasol Stars Toybox.

hoobs88 · 03/25/2009, 10:09 AM

The Parasol Stars Toybox is simply a Soundtrack selection screen with a player piano. I used it to make my own Soundtrack CD as well as cell phone ringtones.

NecroPhile · 03/25/2009, 10:16 AM

Quote from: Duo_R on 03/25/2009, 12:52 AMthats interesting, a WD code. Now has anyone tested it yet?

I tried it out on Cadash last night, but to no avail. I tried sitting through the intro. and waiting for the title screen before pressing any buttons, holding the buttons immediately after death, and everything in between.

spenoza · 03/25/2009, 01:44 PM

Did you play past the first "level"? I think it continues you at the last inn, meaning you have to have visited or moved past one. I seem to remember having trouble with the code, but then ultimately getting it to work. It's been a while, though.

NecroPhile · 03/25/2009, 01:55 PM

Quote from: guest on 03/25/2009, 01:44 PMDid you play past the first "level"?

Well..... technically TORU was playing. Doesn't he start off after the first 'level', or did I need to go even further?

awack · 03/25/2009, 10:11 PM

QuoteDo a SNES Emerald Dragon comparison to the PCE CD port. Be careful about using the translation patch version, as NightCrawler altered the game palette IIRC.

I posted some shots in the pc engine section.

TurboXray · 03/25/2009, 10:59 PM

I just wanted to say, I was looking at the music engine for Cadash on the PCE and it *only* used 4 sound channels. Another taito game to do that on the PCE is Ninja Warriors. I have not idea why they would squander 2 channels like that. Almost all other music engines use all 6 channels, and then dynamically bring in a FX on a low priority channel when needed/requested. That and the music engine itself seems pretty limited.

Duo_R · 03/25/2009, 11:31 PM

oh sweet, maybe that is what is required. I think I was just trying to get the code to work on the 1st level as a test and it failed. I am not at home though, anyone get it to worky?

Quote from: guest on 03/25/2009, 01:44 PMDid you play past the first "level"? I think it continues you at the last inn, meaning you have to have visited or moved past one. I seem to remember having trouble with the code, but then ultimately getting it to work. It's been a while, though.

ccovell · 03/26/2009, 11:08 AM

Quote from: Tom on 03/25/2009, 10:59 PMI just wanted to say, I was looking at the music engine for Cadash on the PCE and it *only* used 4 sound channels. Another taito game to do that on the PCE is Ninja Warriors. I have not idea why they would squander 2 channels like that. Almost all other music engines use all 6 channels, and then dynamically bring in a FX on a low priority channel when needed/requested. That and the music engine itself seems pretty limited.

It's no mystery... Taito sucked, and treated their PCE games like souped-up NES games. Taito games have some of the worst sound quality on the PCE (Cadash, New Zealand Story, Rastan Saga II...) At least they improved a lot for Parasol Stars.

ParanoiaDragon · 03/26/2009, 11:53 AM

Quote from: ccovell on 03/26/2009, 11:08 AM
Quote from: Tom on 03/25/2009, 10:59 PMI just wanted to say, I was looking at the music engine for Cadash on the PCE and it *only* used 4 sound channels. Another taito game to do that on the PCE is Ninja Warriors. I have not idea why they would squander 2 channels like that. Almost all other music engines use all 6 channels, and then dynamically bring in a FX on a low priority channel when needed/requested. That and the music engine itself seems pretty limited.
It's no mystery... Taito sucked, and treated their PCE games like souped-up NES games. Taito games have some of the worst sound quality on the PCE (Cadash, New Zealand Story, Rastan Saga II...) At least they improved a lot for Parasol Stars.

I disagree highly, Auleria has really high production standards!

guyjin · 03/26/2009, 12:43 PM

Quote from: ccovell on 03/26/2009, 11:08 AMIt's no mystery... Taito sucked,

Quoteand treated their PCE games like souped-up NES games.

Didn't everyone?

QuoteTaito games have some of the worst sound quality on the PCE (Cadash, New Zealand Story, Rastan Saga II...) At least they improved a lot for Parasol Stars.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Cadash's sound (but I've never heard the original or the Genny version); but Rastan Saga 2 is definitely their worst game for the pce. haven't played NZS.

spenoza · 03/26/2009, 01:44 PM

And that confuses me. Why would they produce such better work with Parasol Stars? Were they just late getting on the clue train? Why, Taito, why?

Quote from: ccovell on 03/26/2009, 11:08 AM
Quote from: Tom on 03/25/2009, 10:59 PMI just wanted to say, I was looking at the music engine for Cadash on the PCE and it *only* used 4 sound channels. Another taito game to do that on the PCE is Ninja Warriors. I have not idea why they would squander 2 channels like that. Almost all other music engines use all 6 channels, and then dynamically bring in a FX on a low priority channel when needed/requested. That and the music engine itself seems pretty limited.
It's no mystery... Taito sucked, and treated their PCE games like souped-up NES games. Taito games have some of the worst sound quality on the PCE (Cadash, New Zealand Story, Rastan Saga II...) At least they improved a lot for Parasol Stars.

Joe Redifer · 03/26/2009, 04:49 PM

Maybe someone could post examples of the TG and Genesis version sounds? Arcade as well, if possible.

nat · 03/26/2009, 06:06 PM

Quote from: Tom on 03/25/2009, 10:59 PMI just wanted to say, I was looking at the music engine for Cadash on the PCE and it *only* used 4 sound channels. Another taito game to do that on the PCE is Ninja Warriors. I have not idea why they would squander 2 channels like that. Almost all other music engines use all 6 channels, and then dynamically bring in a FX on a low priority channel when needed/requested. That and the music engine itself seems pretty limited.

It's funny how people run around singing praises of the Cadash soundtrack, I always thought it sounded like shit. Probably for the reasons you mention here. Oddly enough, I also think Ninja Warriors sounds like shit, haha. They are both NES-par when it comes to the music, maybe slightly better at their finest shining moments. The first five or ten seconds of Cadash says it all. I always found that odd, since other Taito games like BB3 and Darius (SGX hybrid cart) have such fantastic chip music.

Quote from: ccovell on 03/26/2009, 11:08 AM
Quote from: Tom on 03/25/2009, 10:59 PMI just wanted to say, I was looking at the music engine for Cadash on the PCE and it *only* used 4 sound channels. Another taito game to do that on the PCE is Ninja Warriors. I have not idea why they would squander 2 channels like that. Almost all other music engines use all 6 channels, and then dynamically bring in a FX on a low priority channel when needed/requested. That and the music engine itself seems pretty limited.
It's no mystery... Taito sucked, and treated their PCE games like souped-up NES games. Taito games have some of the worst sound quality on the PCE (Cadash, New Zealand Story, Rastan Saga II...) At least they improved a lot for Parasol Stars.

Yeah, that's it. What he said.

EDIT: Now that I think about it though, I suppose Taito didn't actually do the music for Darius in-house, must have been NEC Avenue.

Keranu · 03/26/2009, 06:47 PM

Hey I liked Space Invaders Plus from Taito. Crappy sound, yeah, but fun overlooked game. And despite the poorish sound quality of Cadash, there were still some good tunes.

ccovell · 03/26/2009, 07:42 PM

Rastan Saga II, Arcade:

(GREAT soundtrack! Listen to all of it...)
Rastan Saga II, PCE:

same... Mega Drive:

Ninjawarriors, Arcade:

Another game with a great soundtrack, all of it.
Ninjawarriors, PCE:

(not bad...)
Ninja Warriors Again, SFC:

Cadash, Arcade:

Not bad...
Cadash TG16:

same... MD:

Joe Redifer · 03/26/2009, 08:09 PM

The MD Cadash sounds fairly close to the arcade, but certainly not exact. I don't think I approve of those slowly dithering screen transitions, though. I'd rather just climb down a simple vine like the arcade.

nat · 03/26/2009, 08:32 PM

Oh lord, I forgot how awful the Duo version of Ninja Warriors looks. It's truly painful.