PCE, SNES and Genesis Screen Comparison.

Joe Redifer · 04/07/2009, 03:21 PM

I really agree with your last two sentences, Ceti. As for Strider, I definitely prefer how the Genesis version looks even if much of the artwork isn't as faithfully drawn compared to the arcade. It's much brighter and much more colorful. The only shot I prefer the PCE version is the 5th shot down, but only for the BG and not the sprites.

CrackTiger · 04/07/2009, 03:26 PM

Both versions of Daimakaimura are full of fugly elements and 8-bit loking graphics. I'd have much prefered a CD port with flat bgs and Forgotten Worlds SCD quality graphics. I think that the SGX version does look better overall, but many things still look better in the MD version. I haven't played through he SGX version many times, but I really prefer the gameplay of the MD version over both the SGX and arcade. The MD version is much closer to being reasonably playable and I can do laps on a Nomad. I like the SGX music best, not only is the soundtrack well suited for PCE, the sound programmer did an amazing job for a pure-PSG soundtrack.

The PCE Strider looks better overall in some of those screen shots where bgs aren't missing, but overall has terrible coloring (yet good detail and tile art), to much formally layered bg art missing and ugly scrolling. I haven't played it in a long time, but Joe mentioned that there is some ridiculous flicker in places, so it sounds like they didn't even try to manage things at all. It really feels like a far from finished port just shipped as-is. I'm not a fan of the game in general, but the gameplay that I don't like didn't seem to far off to me

Ceti Alpha · 04/07/2009, 03:43 PM

Quote from: guest on 04/07/2009, 03:26 PMI'm not a fan of the game in general, but the gameplay that I don't like didn't seem to far off to me

hehe. Yeah, I've only played the Genny port bitd and wasn't thrilled with it. That's a lie. I have the NES Strider on the Capcom Classics Collection Mini Mix for the GBA. But yeah, I don't have very many good things to say about Strider's gameplay. I'll pick up Strider for the PCE eventually just because I want all the Arcade Card games (well, I want a complete PCE/TG collection, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

).

Joe Redifer · 04/07/2009, 03:45 PM

Quote from: African American TigerI'd have much prefered a CD port [of Ghouls 'n Ghosts] with flat bgs and Forgotten Worlds SCD quality graphics.

GameFan would have went apeshit if they did this. They ripped all over TG-CD Forgotten Worlds because it had "no scrolls". Man, it was sad!

TurboXray · 04/07/2009, 04:15 PM

Gamefan were scroll whores

The worth of a game was directly relative to the number of scrolls on screen.

Those pics of PCE Strider are deceiving. The game is sooo much shittier than it looks. The whole thing lacks anything resembling 'polish'. The explosions are larger, colored crap yellow, and cause more flicker than the originals (which look better) would've. Some of the animation is sloppy on the PCE port as well. The controls are too. The cinemas and extra level is no way make up for this. Nor the CD sound track. When applicable, I try to purge my memories of all existence of the port.

Strider on the Genesis owns the said PCE port. No way around it.

Ceti Alpha · 04/07/2009, 04:19 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/07/2009, 03:45 PM
Quote from: African American TigerI'd have much prefered a CD port [of Ghouls 'n Ghosts] with flat bgs and Forgotten Worlds SCD quality graphics.
GameFan would have went apeshit if they did this. They ripped all over TG-CD Forgotten Worlds because it had "no scrolls". Man, it was sad!

I just realized that pcengine-fx.com doesn't have parallax scrolling. I'm erasing my account here.

guyjin · 04/07/2009, 05:01 PM

Quote from: ceti alpha on 04/07/2009, 04:19 PM
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/07/2009, 03:45 PM
Quote from: African American TigerI'd have much prefered a CD port [of Ghouls 'n Ghosts] with flat bgs and Forgotten Worlds SCD quality graphics.
GameFan would have went apeshit if they did this. They ripped all over TG-CD Forgotten Worlds because it had "no scrolls". Man, it was sad!
I just realized that pcengine-fx.com doesn't have parallax scrolling. I'm erasing my account here.

Keranu · 04/07/2009, 05:27 PM

I think the Genesis whooped the PCE's ass in Strider.

Tatsujin · 04/07/2009, 08:27 PM

the pce strider is so no reference. just an all around sloppy programmed piece od software. they better would have invested the their time into a proper port, rather than for that shitty extralevel and nonsense cinematics!!

esteban · 04/07/2009, 09:04 PM

PCE Strider sucks. Such a damn shame. Genny Strider was a system-seller, at least in my part of the world. Everyone I knew was talking about it and lovin' it and many folks wanted to get a console just for Strider.

Now, let's shift gears and look at Genny Valis (8 MEG POWER, by the way); Renovation did have a great advertisement:

You gotta love the tagline "It just might be too hot to handle" and the silly ad copy about Yuko's best friend going on a date with King Rogles (they could have presented it in a more compelling manner).

Also, to be fair to the Genny version (which doesn't play as nicely as the PCE version), the PCE version was made last (after Valis IV, if memory serves).

TR0N · 04/07/2009, 11:01 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/07/2009, 03:17 AMWhile there are elements of the Genesis/MD version that I like, the PC Engine version really wins by a landslide here. The PCE version is much brighter and pleasing to the eye. What the screens here do not show is how dreadfully slow the MD version is. The PCE version also seems to control a tad better and is just more fun as well. Let's not forget that the PCE version shows you a teenage girl's undies!!!!!!!! The MD version does not. I know which version gets my money!!!!! Oooooohhh!!!!!

Agreed whole heartly and then some

Tatsujin · 04/07/2009, 11:18 PM

funnily, i like the MD music the better. but in terms of graphics and details, there is just no comparison to the sgfx version. there the sgfx wins skyscraper high!

TurboXray · 04/07/2009, 11:40 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/07/2009, 11:18 PMfunnily, i like the MD music the better. but in terms of graphics and details, there is just no comparison to the sgfx version. there the sgfx wins skyscraper high!

You like the MD music better!?

Tatsujin · 04/08/2009, 12:14 AM

as for Daimakaimura, yes, i really really do. it's just more accurat with the MDs FM. and the 1st loop clear BGM is one of the best chip tune i've ever heard.

nevertheless, the sgfx comes with a great chip tune as well.

CrackTiger · 04/08/2009, 12:34 AM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/08/2009, 12:14 AMas for Daimakaimura, yes, i really really do. it's just more accurat with the MDs FM. and the 1st loop clear BGM is one of the best chip tune i've ever heard.

nevertheless, the sgfx comes with a great chip tune as well.

I can see how anyone can prefer a particular rendition of a soundtrack, but as far as accuracy, if you mean in relation to the arcade, the SGX music sounds extremely similar to the arcade while the MD music sounds unique.

Tatsujin · 04/08/2009, 01:09 AM

i like the warm FM bass/sphere which the MD is using for most of the themes. it just fits the best for daimakaimura BGM. the sgfx BGM sounds a little bit deformed sometimes.

awack · 04/08/2009, 06:12 AM

Knocking out the Capcom games, Chiki Chiki boy, Ghouls & Ghost, Strider and now Forgotten Worlds, then there is Street Fighter 2, which i might do but if you want to see a really good comparison of that, just visit African American Tiger's site.

PC Engine	Genesis

Tatsujin · 04/08/2009, 06:50 AM

and here we go again. it's already decided so clearly

Ceti Alpha · 04/08/2009, 08:39 AM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/08/2009, 06:50 AMand here we go again. it's already decided so clearly

haha. Yeah, I didn't actually realize it was so glaringly obvious.

The only thing going against the PCE is that it doesn't have 2 player co-op. But man, it's not a slight variation. The PCE is above and beyond the Genny on this one.

Tatsujin · 04/08/2009, 09:48 AM

Ceti Alpha · 04/08/2009, 09:53 AM

hahaha. Tats laughs at what Genesis does.

awack · 04/08/2009, 10:26 AM

AERO BLASTERS.

PC Engine	Genesis

Ceti Alpha · 04/08/2009, 10:40 AM

Very close here.

I prefer the PCE in the first screen comparison. The city in the distance really adds a nice dimension.

Basically the only screen shots where I prefer the Genny is the 2nd and 4th. The last boss screen shot is a toss up too. All others go to the PCE.

The Genny port should be disqualified for the random anime characters placed between each level. hehe

Joe Redifer · 04/08/2009, 02:34 PM

Here's what GameFan had to say about Forgotten Worlds (from issue 2):

The actual review:

The full page spread:

Ceti Alpha · 04/08/2009, 02:42 PM

Wow. GameFan really were scroll fanatics.

SCROLL or DIE!!

Seriously though, those constant terrible reviews for the PCE/TG drove me absolutely crazy bitd.

TurboXray · 04/08/2009, 02:56 PM

You can see that they just directly used the tiles from the arcade version. The aspect ratio between the CPS1 res (another other arcade systems with similar res) is really close, if not exactly, identical to the PCE's mid res mode. Guess they figured it was easier just transplant the tiles over (makes it so you don't have to re-write the X/Y position logic).

pcedev.net/pics/comparison/FW/pce.png <- PCE
pcedev.net/pics/comparison/FW/ac_pce_pal.png <- Arcade with PCE pal
pcedev.net/pics/comparison/FW/ac_org_pal.png <- Arcade with original pal

awack · 04/08/2009, 03:06 PM

Man, that gamefan article is great, its not all that bad of a mag really, i have a few of em, in one of the grave yard articles the reviewer says about grandzort (still the best action game ever released on a nec system) the year was 1993.

They would state that line scrolling floors were essential for a good fighter and gave flash hiders for the pce the 2nd best fighter ever behind street fighter 2( the main reviewer e-storm) the year DEC 93/Jan 94.

You know they loved super air zonk

I had no idea they used the exact same tiles in that part, i thought they were slightly different.

guyjin · 04/08/2009, 03:34 PM

I agree that the PCE version is better graphically, but a lot of it looks.. greyed out. it's most noticable in PCE pics 2, 3, 14, and 16 thru 18.

NecroPhile · 04/08/2009, 03:36 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/08/2009, 02:34 PMHere's what GameFan had to say about Forgotten Worlds (from issue 2):

'Genesis version came closer' to being arcade perfect. Only if you don't look at the backgrounds and sprites, ya bunch of worthless meat sacks.

awack · 04/08/2009, 03:54 PM

I just checked out game pro's Forgotten Worlds review and it was the total opposite, calling the genesis version forgettable and the pce graphically spectacular.. i just dont know who to believe.

Keranu · 04/08/2009, 04:31 PM

Wow, I always remember the TG16 Aero Blasters looking a little better than the Genesis, but these screenshots are making me think the opposite.

Tom, those Forgotten World screenshots are very interesting. I think the converted PCE pal screenshot has nicer shading than the arcade!

Joe Redifer · 04/08/2009, 06:37 PM

The Genesis version of Air Buster/Aero Blasters does look better graphically in pretty much all areas, but the TG-16 version is still the version I'd rather play. It doesn't have the pseudo-loading screen and just seems to have smoother control. Oh, and the music is better.

Here is my official comparison for Sega-16
sega-16.com/2006/11/side-by-side-air-busteraero-blasters-genesis-vs-turbografx-16/

Air Buster Phase 1 theme (MP3 format, 1.15 megs)

_{► /02/airbuster-phase1.mp3}

Aero Blasters Phase 1 theme (MP3 format, 806 kb)

_{► /02/aeroblasters-phase1.mp3}

Air Buster Phase 2 theme (MP3 format, 1.73 megs)

_{► /02/airbuster-phase2.mp3}

Aero Blasters Phase 2 theme (MP3 format, 1.17 megs)

_{► /02/aeroblasters-phase2.mp3}

TurboXray · 04/08/2009, 07:57 PM

Quote from: Keranu on 04/08/2009, 04:31 PMWow, I always remember the TG16 Aero Blasters looking a little better than the Genesis, but these screenshots are making me think the opposite.

I did a compare a long time ago. The TG16 version has more colors, mostly on the sprites, but in the over all of things you really can't tell. This is one port that looked great on the Genesis. I had played the Genesis version tons before picking up the hucard a year later.

lkermel · 04/08/2009, 08:03 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/08/2009, 06:37 PMThe Genesis version of Aero Blasters does look better graphically in pretty much all areas, but the TG-16 version is still the version I'd rather play. It doesn't have the pseudo-loading screen and just seems to have smoother control. Oh, and the music is better.

Same here, I find the whole game a lot smoother on the PCE... the Genesis version has a nice parallax scrolling though, If I remember well.

About Forgotten Worlds, I remember playing the PCE version and the Arcade simultaneously (while I was testing it for my site) and I was gob smacked by how good Nec Avenues's conversion was. I only wish Nec had done a sinmilar job with Strider Hiryu...

CrackTiger · 04/08/2009, 09:05 PM

Quote from: Keranu on 04/08/2009, 04:31 PMWow, I always remember the TG16 Aero Blasters looking a little better than the Genesis, but these screenshots are making me think the opposite.

Tom, those Forgotten World screenshots are very interesting. I think the converted PCE pal screenshot has nicer shading than the arcade!

A while back when Tatsujin started a thread about SFII port resolutions, I made some regular sized Forgotten Worlds screen shots, including the arcade colored with PCE palette colors.

The left image is the regular arcade, the right is the arcade in PCE color-

/fwarc.bmp
/fwarcpce.bmp

The PCE pallete sure loves CPS games.

Too bad more developers didn't take advantage. I think that most of the sprites in the game were transferred pixel for pixel, making them even bigger on screen than in the arcade. If having CPS arcade sized sprites against backgrounds like these means a little flicker, I'll gladly take it over an average 16-bit console port.

The game still runs at a higher resolution than the regular resolution of every Genesis and SNES game while maintaining a high level of shading and detail. This combo is a real strength that the PCE has over the other consoles and should have happened in more games, especially non-sprite intensive stuff like RPGs. It still wouldn't have taken much to add some layered scrolling in places, but it always seems that every PCE developer only knew how to do some things, but none knew how to do them all. But with sampled sfx and CD music, layered bgs really are the only element missing aesthetically.

Here is the regular arcade and PCE screens lined up-

/fwcompgif3.gif

I like the changes they made with the coloring, but like the blue highlights on the bg should have been kept.

The Genesis version still has nice graphics and was very impressive and really fun when it came out. It was one of my favorite early Genesis games.

ParanoiaDragon · 04/09/2009, 02:15 AM

Quote from: guest on 04/07/2009, 12:04 PM
Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 04/07/2009, 02:40 AMAs for Raiden, the SNES version looks like crap compared to the SNES version, & I mean that!
Now who can argue with such flawless logic? It's so damn shitty, comparisons are entirely unnecessary.

That's awesome, was I tired when I wrote that? I ain't changin' it, I stand by my opinion!

Ceti Alpha · 04/09/2009, 02:35 AM

Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 04/09/2009, 02:15 AM
Quote from: guest on 04/07/2009, 12:04 PM
Quote from: ParanoiaDragon on 04/07/2009, 02:40 AMAs for Raiden, the SNES version looks like crap compared to the SNES version, & I mean that!
Now who can argue with such flawless logic? It's so damn shitty, comparisons are entirely unnecessary.
That's awesome, was I tired when I wrote that? I ain't changin' it, I stand by my opinion!

I can appreciate conviction!

termis · 04/09/2009, 02:47 AM

Quote from: awack on 04/08/2009, 03:54 PMI just checked out game pro's Forgotten Worlds review and it was the total opposite, calling the genesis version forgettable and the pce graphically spectacular.. i just dont know who to believe.

Anyone who thinks the Genesis version of Forgotten Worlds looks better is gotta be blind!

But real(!) two-player co-op play -- that's was a huge loss for the PCE version.

On a sidenote, I still did enjoy the Genesis version. I think it was the 2nd or 3rd game Genesis game I bought. Subsequently someone swiped it when I accidentally left it sitting on top of an arcade cabinet (while I was playing another arcade game) at a local donut shop.

Ceti Alpha · 04/09/2009, 02:49 AM

Quote from: termis on 04/09/2009, 02:47 AM
Quote from: awack on 04/08/2009, 03:54 PMI just checked out game pro's Forgotten Worlds review and it was the total opposite, calling the genesis version forgettable and the pce graphically spectacular.. i just dont know who to believe.
Anyone who thinks the Genesis version of Forgotten Worlds looks better is gotta be blind!

But real(!) two-player co-op play -- that's was a huge loss for the PCE version.

On a sidenote, I still did enjoy the Genesis version. I think it was the 2nd or 3rd game Genesis game I bought. Subsequently someone swiped it when I accidentally left it sitting on top of an arcade cabinet (while I was playing another arcade game) at a local donut shop.

Tatsujin · 04/09/2009, 03:35 AM

Quote from: guest on 04/08/2009, 03:36 PM
Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/08/2009, 02:34 PMHere's what GameFan had to say about Forgotten Worlds (from issue 2):
'Genesis version came closer' to being arcade perfect. Only if you don't look at the backgrounds and sprites, ya bunch of worthless meat sacks.

muahahaha..if those suckers wheren't the biggest morrons on earth, then who else?

esteban · 04/09/2009, 12:28 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/08/2009, 06:37 PMThe Genesis version of Aero Blasters does look better graphically in pretty much all areas, but the TG-16 version is still the version I'd rather play. It doesn't have the pseudo-loading screen and just seems to have smoother control. Oh, and the music is better.

Here is my official comparison for Sega-16

Hey, that was fun to (re)read. I must have read it back in the day, but surely I would have remembered Kaneko's "FREE GLOVE" offer? That is awesome... do you know if gloves were promoted with any other games (outside of Kaneko)? I don't remember seeing any...

Now I'll listen to the Genny's tunes...

awack · 04/11/2009, 05:10 PM

Darius 2.

PC Engine	Genesis

CrackTiger · 04/11/2009, 05:43 PM

Here are some pics from one of my many unfinished projects-

ARCADE-

PC ENGINE-

MEGA DRIVE & SMS-

ARCADE-

PC ENGINE-

MEGA DRIVE & SMS-

ARCADE-

PC ENGINE-

MEGA DRIVE & SMS-

awack · 04/11/2009, 06:09 PM

I haven't played the master system version, i heard its pretty good.

Its hard to match these up since the pce port has slightly more varied levels.

Compare to screenshot above

PC Engine	Genesis

CrackTiger · 04/11/2009, 06:26 PM

Quote from: awack on 04/11/2009, 06:09 PMI haven't played the master system version, i heard its pretty good.

Its hard to match these up since the pce port has slightly more varied levels.

Here are a couple pics that are the Super Darius 2 equivalent. It's also hard to do direct comparisons with single screenshots since the PCE version has half of its background off screen due to the detail.

I think that the PCE version looks better overall than the arcade. In places where the graphics are more or less identical, the PCE version uses much nicer colors. The redrawn/different minibosses are WAY better and so are most of the main bosses.

The MD and SMS ports compare more to each other than to the PCE and arcade, but both are very well done, although an MD port could always be better. The MD and SMS versions have Air Zonk style bg scrolling in places that it looks like the arcade does as well. After comparing the Saturn version to the PCE version for awhile, I thought that it was an addition to the Sega ports. But for some reason, that particular scrolling effect is only missing from the Saturn & PCE versions, even though it wouldn't take any tricks to enable inthe PCE version that aren't already done in other sections.

I mentioned earlier in this thread how it seems that every developer knew how to do some things, but always seem to miss others. Aside from that simple to implement effect, the CE version doesn't use any adpcm samples and sounds kinda quiet as a result. The PSG sounds are okay and even the arcade is kinda quiet most of the time, but aside from sampled explosion sfx, they could've at least included the dialogue from the first stage.

What the screen shots don't show much of, is how the average enemy sprites are 2 - 4 times bigger on PCE and are pretty much all the same size as the arcade, except many are drawn and/or shaded better. Once the weapons are fully powered they take up half the screen, yet there is very little flicker, even with many screen filling bosses made from sprites.

awack · 04/11/2009, 07:11 PM

The difference in the bosses are extreme.

PC Engine	Genesis

spenoza · 04/11/2009, 08:16 PM

It looks like the PCE version just seriously curtails the play field, whereas the Genesis version attempts to give you as much space as a screen and a half or 2 screens in only one screen by simply shrinking everything down. The Genesis version looks much worse, visually. I have no idea how play compares, though.

CrackTiger · 04/11/2009, 08:37 PM

Quote from: guest on 04/11/2009, 08:16 PMIt looks like the PCE version just seriously curtails the play field, whereas the Genesis version attempts to give you as much space as a screen and a half or 2 screens in only one screen by simply shrinking everything down. The Genesis version looks much worse, visually. I have no idea how play compares, though.

Super Darius 2 was completely reworked as a console game. As faithful as most of the graphics are, things were swapped around and added and the enemy patterns are also altered so that everything is balanced. When you're playing it, it seems like your ship is occupying a huge section of the screen, but it never feels claustrophobic and there's also enough room and time to maneuver around. As much as I love Super Darius/Darius Plus, the extra work put into SD2 to make it more than a simple port really pays off.

Tatsujin · 04/11/2009, 11:40 PM

altough SD2 is a graphical eye candy of the very high class, i remember that it had some tremendous flickers on the big bosses, also it was kinda frowsy developed here and there. have to give it a shot soon again. i didn't play it for years now.

nectarsis · 04/11/2009, 11:51 PM

SD2 does have some AWFUL boss flicker