PCE, SNES and Genesis Screen Comparison.

Retro-Nerd · 04/26/2009, 07:42 AM

Ermh. The games were written for JOYSTICKS with "up" for jumping and worked very good for that time. Later Amiga games had Joypad support. Games like BC KID, Apidya or Turrican 3 works fine with it.

QuotePfft. The Amiga wasn't even powerful enough to handle proper game controls. Silly Amiga.

Sarcasm? If not it's a pretty stupid comment. As i've said, console biased.

Tatsujin · 04/26/2009, 08:01 AM

the amiga was a great machine. unfortunately not used by the greatest peeps always. in western fields for sure the best HC ever made.

CrackTiger · 04/26/2009, 12:33 PM

QuoteI prefer the more "muddy" Amiga look over the bonbon PCE colors.

The Amiga colors aren't muddy at all, they're just dim. They look exactly like a normal colored game that's had the picture darkened, not recolored with enhanced contrast or a dark style or anything. It's the same with the PC Engine ports of Gradius and Salamander. There's nothing "bonbon" about the colors of the PCE version, that must just be a desperate swipe at the version you assume everyone is prefering because you assume everyone here is as biased as you are. I named the Genesis, MD and PCE versions as having better color and various improvements.

One of the things I forgot to mention was that the composition/proportioning isn't as nice in the Amiga version, due to the fact that reducing the sizes of anything in the cropped play area would reduce their detail. I can see how having such a small space before an enemy comes flying at you would degrade the gameplay.

Quotehttp://genesisreviews.tripod.com/reviews/beast.html

He criticses that the game was on Amiga Disk only? On a COMPUTER? The Amiga version was released in 1989 and harddrives were very expensive, especially the SCSI ones. Only a few people could afford these useful hardware at that time.

That was just a side note, listed down below the actual review. The review itself sounded bang on (but it wasn't positive). Yet you only posted that comment and not only dismissed him as a "console freak", but even presume that he's an NES lover... before saying that he lacks an open mind (for criticizing those with different opinions perhaps?).

QuoteTypical console freak reviews, probably the NES generation. Without an open mind for other machines than consoles. I love all the old computer and console games, but i wouldn't write such shitty reviews. Honestly.

QuoteSounds like a typical "console only" user, even if you said that you own an Amiga. I hate these broad-brush comments.

Quote from: Retro-Nerd on 04/26/2009, 07:42 AMSarcasm? If not it's a pretty stupid comment. As i've said, console biased.

You may not be able to perceive your own attitude, like Cartman or Kanye West, but you're the one spouting "broad-brush" rabid fanboy comments. All but the first of your handful of comments on this forum over two and a half years have been computer game based. You contribution to PCE discussion consists mainly of this line tacked on to the end of a random console-fan-hating post: "And YES, i'm a huge PC-Engine fan too. No doubt!!!".

No doubt.

The Genesis and Mega Drive versions are basically pixel for pixel the same as the Amiga version, only without half the screen cropped, better colors, better shading, improved tiles and more details. Take my word for it, if you can't tell that the image on the left looks better overall, you're a hopeless fanboy-

Retro-Nerd · 04/26/2009, 04:42 PM

I've expect an answer like that. I know that i'm on a US dominated board. At least Tatsujin is a bit more objective if it comes to any other than consoles. Sad but true. Fanboy? Who created this ugly word? I would really want to know it. Sounds more like kindergarden talk.

I've played computer and consolegames since the early 80s and i'm mainly objective. You will find hardcore fans of a specific gaming platform on any boards.

btw: Comparing games by watching screenshots or youtube videos is pretty fluffy. I've played the Genesis Beast version and Amiga version on real hardware. There's no clear winner, i.e. the parallax scrolling looks much better on the computer. On the other side: The PC-Engine Beast has a better/smoother running animation.

QuoteYou may not be able to perceive your own attitude, like Cartman or Kanye West, but you're the one spouting "broad-brush" rabid fanboy comments. All but the first of your handful of comments on this forum over two and a half years have been computer game based. You contribution to PCE discussion consists mainly of this line tacked on to the end of a random console-fan-hating post: "And YES, i'm a huge PC-Engine fan too. No doubt!!!".

What fanboy comments i've made? I said that there are of course enough Amiga action games with decent controls. I'm mainly reading here, that's ok. But these broad-brush rant comments about "shitty" computer game controls are pretty stupid. And i cleary said that i like the well balanced PCE-CD difficulty level and re-arranged CD soundtrack.

About the colors: A lot of people worldwide like the Psygnosis graphic style from the late 80s. I said it's a matter of taste and that i prefer it over the too much colored PCE, Genesis ports. That's all. It's OK if you like the brighter console graphic style, but there are other opinions too. Tolerate it or not.

QuoteThat was just a side note, listed down below the actual review. The review itself sounded bang on (but it wasn't positive). Yet you only posted that comment and not only dismissed him as a "console freak", but even presume that he's an NES lover... before saying that he lacks an open mind (for criticizing those with different opinions perhaps?).

This wasn't just a side note. He wanted to rant about a disk based gaming platform. Pretty obvious. There's no place in reviews for this, if he claim the objectivity for himself.

The review itself wasn't that bad, at least i share his summary. This game is boring, with all the dull ememy formations.

Yes, i know that you US guys grown up with consoles and joypads. A bit more objectivity, THAT's what i've meant. I have no problem with joysticks or joypads. Peace?

TurboXray · 04/26/2009, 05:20 PM

Quote from: Retro-Nerd on 04/26/2009, 07:42 AMErmh. The games were written for JOYSTICKS with "up" for jumping and worked very good for that time. Later Amiga games had Joypad support. Games like BC KID, Apidya or Turrican 3 works fine with it.

QuotePfft. The Amiga wasn't even powerful enough to handle proper game controls. Silly Amiga.
Sarcasm? If not it's a pretty stupid comment. As i've said, console biased.

I just felt the need to amusingly 'broad-brush' the Amiga in keeping with the spirit and celebration of things in the moment (that and your 'broad-brushing' assumption of Arkhan being a console only user - when you have NO idea of his background in all of this, to show how ridiculous that was.)

Also, painting with a 'broad-brush' is such a lame metaphor. Quick, someone pick some other one.

termis · 04/26/2009, 05:50 PM

Quote from: Tom on 04/26/2009, 05:20 PMAlso, painting with a 'broad-brush' is such a lame metaphor. Quick, someone pick some other one.

Let me have a go -- BT isn't from the U.S.

awack · 04/26/2009, 06:56 PM

I played the US version of SOTB for the Genesis and the Turbo Duo SOTB last night on hardware and will try to compare the two, visually at least.

Starting with the Bg gfx you obviously can tell that the genesis is closer to the Amiga, in the under ground section the turbo duo used a simple texture with some added detail such as large eyes that open and close, skulls, torches and creatures that pop in and out of holes, the foreground has been improved in the duo port, but lacks parallax scrolling.

The top section in the genesis port has wonderfully done tree trunks, clouds and details like the blimps, the duo version is a bit more lush look with more sprites on screen at once (with trees) with more color of course..47 vs 75.

I think most people would agree that the castle area in duo port is better much more detail and better coloring, but again lacks parallax scrolling.

The sprites in the duo port are larger and the player sprite is larger and has more frames of animation in his run...6 frames for genesis which is typical for 16 bit games and 11 frames for the duo game, which is similar to the Aladdin games.

Retro-Nerd · 04/26/2009, 07:25 PM

This is how it possibly looks on a real CRT TV with RGB. The Genesis version has more colors, but i wouldn't say that it looks better than the Amiga version. The prefer the Turbo Duo graphics over the Genesis port.

Amiga

Genesis (JP)

Amiga

Genesis (JP)

Amiga

Genesis (JP)

Joe Redifer · 04/26/2009, 10:04 PM

The JP Mega Drive version is significantly dimmer than the US Genesis version. I mostly prefer the Genesis version with the exception being the player sprite and maybe the clouds. However I think the sound may have been better on the JP version, but I can't recall.

Quote from: Retro NerdThis is how it possibly looks on a real CRT TV with RGB.

Not even close. Emulators never get the scanline filters right. The picture would never be that dim on a real RGB monitor or TV. The emulators don't take into account for video bloom which would decrease the effect of the scanlines (but they would still be noticeable) and the picture wouldn't be as dim as a result.

Retro-Nerd · 04/26/2009, 10:31 PM

Sure, you can't produce the real TV RGB scanlines with emulator filters. But not even close isn't 100% true. The Amiga has pretty strong scanlines. Well, the Genesis/Turbo Duo RGB image is much brighter, that's indeed true. At least you can see more details in my screenshot comparison. This single-pixel emulator shots are too small to see all the details.

CrackTiger · 04/26/2009, 11:05 PM

QuoteI've expect an answer like that. I know that i'm on a US dominated board.

As I mentioned about being oblivious, you went ahead and again flamed not only the entire board, but a whole country... while accusing them of doing the same. You're the one prejudging people and also assuming they have the same stick-to-their-own-kind attitude that you do. Also, if you were familiar with the regular members here, you'd know that it's not U.S. dominated.

QuoteAt least Tatsujin is a bit more objective if it comes to any other than consoles. Sad but true.

All you know is that Tatsujin originally commented that he thought that the Amiga version looked best and that he said that the hardware itself is great. For all you know he smashes vintage computers every night. You're only saying that everyone who you think shares your opinions are objective and those who disagree are biased.

QuoteFanboy? Who created this ugly word? I would really want to know it. Sounds more like kindergarden talk.

There's that same smug attitude. Your thought process must've been like this-

"Fanboy. What could it mean? Fan... cause I'm Fan-tasic, obviously. And Boy... must mean "Boy is that Retro-Nerd amazing!" Then why did it sound like he was disagreeing with me?"

QuoteThis wasn't just a side note. He wanted to rant about a disk based gaming platform. Pretty obvious. There's no place in reviews for this, if he claim the objectivity for himself.

He kept that comment separate from the actual review, which basically said "gorgeous graphics and professional, synth-quality music, but bad gameplay." Sounds pretty pro-Amiga to me. He even trashed the sound of the console port. But you're judging him as an objective-less console-loving zealot based on a single comment and posted the link in this thread just so you could flame "console-lovers" in general.

QuoteThere's no clear winner, i.e. the parallax scrolling looks much better on the computer.

I haven't played through both versions recently, but in the videos I saw the Genesis and Amiga versions had the same amount of parallax, while the FM Towns port had noticeably more.

QuoteYes, i know that you US guys grown up with consoles and joypads. A bit more objectivity, THAT's what i've meant. I have no problem with joysticks or joypads. Peace?

One person said that Amiga action games don't control well. Another person called you a gay fish. All the while you're ranting about console-freaks and lousy Americans.

Back on topic, I'd rather play the game on the left than the game on the right-

And the game on the right doesn't feel emotionally darker. It just looks washed out compared to the game on the left.

To me, the Genesis SotB doesn't look better or more theme-suited on the right, only lacking contrast-

Even if you prefer the subtle differences of the actual graphics of the Amiga version, at some point the cropping has to come into play visually, if not gameplay-wise-

Aside from looking better full screen at the Genesis resolution, having a wider view area dramatically helps to fix SotB's fatal flaw: enemies that come flying at you from the direction you're running towards and you have to punch them. Just like games with screens that don't scroll until the main character is too close to the edge, it makes for bad gameplay. Since the game uses a player sprite just about as big they should get without hampering gameplay at full screen, the more room the better. Of course it's all about balance, I don't think that anything bigger than the Genesis version is necessary-

The Amiga SotB just looks like a Gameboy Advance version of the Genesis game. Which is still nice, but not as good overall.

QuoteHowever I think the sound may have been better on the JP version, but I can't recall.

In the comparison video the music of one version was slower. It could've been a PAL rom run through an emulator or the emulator set to the wrong region or something.

Tatsujin · 04/26/2009, 11:13 PM

i still insist on my previous statement that the amiga version, in graphical terms of view is undisputable and by far the nicest version. the 1st pic above from retro speaks volumes.
the coloring, the details of the mountains and other obstacles, the whole ambience etc. is not even comparable with the flat and dull MD version.

this game was designed for the amiga and that's just what you can see.

we're talking here about the visuals of the game, and nothing else.

Retro-Nerd · 04/26/2009, 11:22 PM

That's true. The Amiga graphic has more depth, it looks imho better. We were talking about visuals, that's all we can do here with screenshots. And these more dim, pastel colors suits SotB much better. I like colorful PCE games like Bonk or New Adventure Island. They look great in this graphic style, but SotB not. That's my opinion, no more, no less.

The youtube videos aren't good enough for a comparasion too. You have to compare all the games/game versions for yourself on real hardware if you want real answers, that's a huge difference.

QuoteThe Amiga SotB just looks like a Gameboy Advance version of the Genesis game. Which is still nice, but not as good overall.

Ok, THIS comment makes me smile. This is obviously not true. Sounds more like you lack a proper argument. But i stop here. We guys are all retro game freaks. No need to fight over such details.

Tatsujin · 04/26/2009, 11:34 PM

i won't question the meaning of this thread, because it's quite fun to see all the different versions of different ports on different platforms and i also appreciate the huge effort of those peeps here which providing us with all those nice screenies.
but on the other hand, we shouldn't take it too serious as well, because it's a fact, that we can't judge the final game and its quality just by watching at those pictures.

so please keep on the nice work

CrackTiger · 04/26/2009, 11:37 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/26/2009, 11:13 PMi still insist on my previous statement that the amiga version, in graphical terms of view is undisputable and by far the nicest version. the 1st pic above from retro speaks volumes.
the coloring, the details of the mountains and other obstacles, the whole ambience etc. is not even comparable with the flat and dull MD version.

this game was designed for the amiga and that's just what you can see.

we're talking here about the visuals of the game, and nothing else.

I guess it's all up to personal taste, since the Amiga version's lack of contrast and detail/shading gives me less sense of depth. But if you look at the blimp, clouds and mountains in the first pic, they're all more detailed and better drawn and shaded on the Mega Drive version. Most things in the Amiga background are shaded with only 3 or 4 colors while the MD version uses 6 or more.

Technically, the MD version is noticeably more detailed and shaded. The choice of color and in places art is a matter of opinion.

Retro-Nerd · 04/26/2009, 11:39 PM

Yes, post more please. Especially all shots of the Sega arcade ports for the PC Engine are pretty interesting. The most of these games look (and play) indeed much better on the NEC console.

QuoteI guess it's all up to personal taste...

That's what i've said all the time.

Joe Redifer · 04/26/2009, 11:58 PM

I like discussing the differences like this and I really like it when CrackTiger gets down to the super-nitty-gritty details in his screen shots. I remember one he posted of giant Bonk from Bonk 3 arguing how hand drawn art was better than a scaled sprite. It was great. I still have those pics.. Keep it up, BT! And you other guys, keep arguing the details... it's very interesting!

To me, the palette of the Amiga version of SotB reminds me of the Atari Lynx for some reason. Maybe due to being dim without having any real dark colors.

Retro-Nerd · 04/27/2009, 12:05 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/26/2009, 11:58 PMTo me, the palette of the Amiga version of SotB reminds me of the Atari Lynx for some reason. Maybe due to being dim without having any real dark colors.

That's no surprise, the Atari Lynx is pretty close to the Amiga graphics hardware. RJ Mical was one of the Lynx designer. The developer kit was made on an Amiga.

CrackTiger · 04/27/2009, 12:06 AM

Quote
QuoteThe Amiga SotB just looks like a Gameboy Advance version of the Genesis game. Which is still nice, but not as good overall.
Ok, THIS comment makes me smile. This is obviously not true. Sounds more like you lack a proper argument. But i stop here. We guys are all retro game freaks. No need to hassle about such things.

I know the GBA isn't a computer, but I thought that this one would be obvious. The GBA received many Genesis and SNES ports. They looked the same, more or less pixel for pixel, only with different colors and a cropped viewing area due to the lower resolution-

If you're a "retro game freak", what did you think that a Genesis to Gameboy Advance port would mean?

QuoteI like colorful PCE games like Bonk or New Adventure Island. They look great in this graphic style, but SotB not. That's my opinion, no more, no less.

We get this kind of pandering a lot from non-PCE fans. "The bright PCE colors are neat for cutesy PCE games like Bonk". No one ever says "PCE colors are fine for Legend of Xanadu games". SotB PCE isn't colored anything like a Bonk game or NAI.

QuoteI remember one he posted of giant Bonk from Bonk 3 arguing how hand drawn art was better than a scaled sprite. It was great. I still have those pics.. Keep it up, BT! And you other guys, keep arguing the details... it's very interesting!

Mode 7 FTW!

Retro-Nerd · 04/27/2009, 01:27 AM

I don't understand why you talking about cropped Amiga games or GBA ports. I have no clue why the Amiga programmer mainly used a non full PAL screen for the games. Anyway, there are some neat games in PAL overscan for the miggy. Check The Settlers, Project X or Sensible World of Soccer with resolutions up to app. 360x284.

And if we are talking about the SotB details:

I still think that e.g. the clouds aren't well drawn in the Genesis/Mega Drive port. The black shaded edges around are way too thick. This gives you the impression that the game runs in a lower resolution as it really do. Later Mega Drive games like Flink look much better. Henk Nieborg is a graphic genius.

QuoteWe get this kind of pandering a lot from non-PCE fans. "The bright PCE colors are neat for cutesy PCE games like Bonk". No one ever says "PCE colors are fine for Legend of Xanadu games". SotB PCE isn't colored anything like a Bonk game or NAI.

Only a few examples. The most PCE games are really colorful and i mainly like it. No matter if it's a cute platformer, RGP or 2D shooter. But it doesn't suite SotB, that's my opinion. The Turbo Duo Beast doesn't look like Bonk, but i still prefer the Amiga graphics/colors.

And to be honest: There are indeed awful (over) colored PCE games like Cadash or The Legendary Axe. Both are great titles in respect of the gameplay, but i can't stand this horrible color palette.

awack · 04/27/2009, 02:24 AM

Flash Hiders.

PC Engine	SNES

TurboXray · 04/27/2009, 02:31 AM

Wow. Looking at the Amiga pics side by side of the other versions... and the palette choice looks bad. Some ports are more 'poppy' and brighter in color, but the Amiga port is even more so in the opposite direction. Yuck. Makes SNES drab look less drab. SotB 3 palette on the Amiga looks better/more appropriate.

Joe Redifer · 04/27/2009, 02:51 AM

Wow, I didn't even know there was a SNES version of Flash Hiders. Both versions look pretty good. I still need to pick up the PCE version if I can find it on the cheap. I remember GameFan (or Die Hard or something) tried to sell it to me when I bought Dracula X back when it came out.

Quote from: Retro NerdThere are indeed awful (over) colored PCE games like ... The Legendary Axe.

WTF? I know CrackTiger once said he thought The Legendary Axe had perhaps a bit too much color, but I just don't see it. Palette choices being what they are, LA still doesn't exactly bombard you with tons of color in any scene that I can recall.

awack · 04/27/2009, 03:23 AM

Gain Ground.

By the way i cant do hucard games now since every time i try to load a rom in magic engine my computer crashes, but there are more than enough cd game comparisons to do until i fix the problem.

PC Engine	Genesis

Retro-Nerd · 04/27/2009, 09:58 AM

Some different colors and slightly different graphic details. The PCE wins, i don't like such big status screen displays as you can see in the MD version, this downscales the viewable game screen.

Ceti Alpha · 04/27/2009, 10:05 AM

Quote from: Retro-Nerd on 04/27/2009, 09:58 AMSome different colors and slightly different graphic details. The PCE wins, i don't like such big status screen displays as you can see in the MD version, this downscales the viewable game screen.

I also prefer the PCE port. I like the Ikari Warrior look of the PCE. How is this game anyway? It looks fun.

Joe Redifer · 04/27/2009, 02:18 PM

Why are you using GIFs for the Genesis version? Use PNGs on that one as well. It would be more fair (or at least should be in theory). Nontheless, I still think the PCE version looks much better though Gain Ground isn't really my cup o' noodles.

awack · 04/27/2009, 05:33 PM

QuoteI like the Ikari Warrior look of the PCE. How is this game anyway?

Its a slow paced action game with some strategy involved, you get a large number of characters to choose from that you pick up along the way, some characters are better than others for certain levels.

QuoteWhy are you using GIFs for the Genesis version? Use PNGs on that one as well. It would be more fair (or at least should be in theory).

Thats just the way Gens emulator is spitting them out, the sega cd games that Ive taken are from Kega fusion, that thing takes bitmap images which are useless to me so i have to change each one to a png file.

Final Fight, throwing in a sega cd vs snes for variety..the resolution difference is major but you get the idea.

Sega CD	SNES

Tatsujin · 04/27/2009, 08:31 PM

the sfc wins house high in pallete while the sega-cd wins in providing more details and max sprites on screen (as well a better BGM). combined it would have been the ultimate final fight release on 16-bit consoles!!

termis · 04/27/2009, 08:40 PM

Wow, never realized just how much more detail the Sega CD version had over the SNES one. SNES does have more colors in some spots, but you really have to look for it in this case. Major win for the Sega CD in my book.

CrackTiger · 04/27/2009, 08:44 PM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/27/2009, 08:31 PMthe sfc wins house high in pallete while the sega-cd wins in providing more details and max sprites on screen (as well a better BGM). combined it would have been the ultimate final fight release on 16-bit consoles!!

Sounds like what a PCE-CD port could've been.

Tatsujin · 04/27/2009, 09:12 PM

Quote from: termis on 04/27/2009, 08:40 PMbut you really have to look for it in this case.

no, you don't have to. it's a very clear case that the SFC colors looks almost like the real arcade deal, while the MCD clearly does not.

but i fairly have to say, that the MCD is surpricely nice colored for an MD game. and regarding all the other aspects it wins by a land slide.

awack · 04/27/2009, 11:31 PM

This is barely scratching the surface on this game, Dynastic Hero/Monster World, Dynastic hero doesn't add many visual improvements, a few more colors here and there, more animation on a few bosses, there are only a couple of places that shows a good improvement, one of them is where you talk to the Queen bee in dynastic hero...of course the genesis game has parallax scrolling and also uses brighter colors.

PC Engine	Genesis

Arkhan Asylum · 04/27/2009, 11:41 PM

Quote from: Retro-Nerd on 04/25/2009, 08:54 PM
Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 04/25/2009, 07:17 PMThe controls are awful on the Amiga. Like most action games on the Amiga.
This is a NOT true. There are enough Amiga action games with decent controls. Too many to list them all. Sounds like a typical "console only" user, even if you said that you own an Amiga. I hate these broad-brush comments.

The PC-Engine CD version of Beast 1 has indeed a better playability, but no better graphics. Anyway, it's still a boring game. Beast III was the only good one in this series.

QuoteThere's a big difference between technically impressive and visually impressive. The Amiga SotB has drab boring colors mixed with worse art and shading style overall than the PCE, Gen and MD versions, various versions have improved details and the Amiga player sprite doesn't look nearly as nice as the SMS and PCE versions. I like the visuals of the PCE, Gen and MD more than the Amiga.
It's a matter of taste. I prefer the more "muddy" Amiga look over the bonbon PCE colors. It matches perfectly the great atmosphere of the Amiga version. The other version looks, sounds and plays different. That's normal.

The PCE-CD version has indeed a great playability (well balanced difficulty) and an awesome CD score. That's true.

typical console user guy?

lol. thats a funny one.

Come over my house.

We can play some Amiga, C64, Atari ST, CoCo 3, and stuff.

I have Sotb 1-3, Saint Dragon, Lemmings, Agony, and a handful of other games for the Amiga.

Unless you prefer RPGs, I have Amberstar and a few other good ones.....

or racing? Supercars? ... how about Carmen SanDiego?

Note: All the Amiga games I own which are also elsewhere (PC Engine, Sega CD)... games like wonderdog, Sotb, saint dragon.....

they play and often look more vibrant elsewhere. The Amiga has good action games, sure. The controls are still annoying, and "UP" for jump on the joystick is stupid. There were jump buttons in arcade games that came out BEFORE the Amiga. No excuse.

I also found that SotB 3 sucks really bad, and is completely boring minus the music.

Also, unless you have played both SotB on Amiga and PCE CD ON a TV/Display, comparing via emulator or screenshots doesn't do anything justice. Psygnosis has always been known for their atmospheric and amazingly detailed graphics (Look at Agony), but for whatever reason the Amiga ones are drab. Dim.... atmospheric sure, but dim. They look somewhat better if you use SVIDEO rather than Composite....

Saying PCE is only good for bright "bon bon" games is quite idiotic considering how great SotB looks on the system, with less available colors to use than the Amiga counterpart.

It makes you sound like that snerd that we made fun of in another thread. Anearth Fantasy, the Xanadu series (<3), and games like Brandish all have an atmosphere void of "bon bon" graphics.

...oh, and I can get to the bottom of the tree and back outside before the damn Amiga version of SotB loads.

nothing sucks more than the C64 one at least.

Tatsujin · 04/28/2009, 12:29 AM

Quote from: guest on 04/27/2009, 11:41 PMnothing sucks more than the C64 one at least.

Retro-Nerd · 04/28/2009, 12:35 AM

Sorry dude, you wasn't even alive once they released the most of the old consoles/computers. Makes me smile to read all your funny comments.

Beast 3 is indeed no milestone, but better than the dull predecessors. Agony is another great example for style over gameplay. And of course i own a Turbo Duo, Amiga, C64, PSX, Dreamcast etc. Don't blame the computers, if you aren't skilled enough to play games via joystick. What a silly comment.

btw: Composite AND S-Video sucks. I prefer RGB if it's possible. Much better.

About loading times: You never heard about WHDLoad as it seems? There's no need to load Amiga games from floppy disks. I've 1000+ games on my A1200 and can start them faster as you switch your console cartridges.

Amberstar is nice, but Ambermoon is the best Amiga RPG. Very atmospheric stuff from Thalion.

And now stop this shit. It's mild entertainment to read your posts. But i want to see more screenshot comparisons.

@Dynastic Hero vs Wonder Boy V:

No clear winner. Both game versions look nice. I prefer the Turbo Duo version anyway, the soundtrack rocks.

Tatsujin · 04/28/2009, 12:51 AM

striking how the PCE and MD BG screens being as alike as two peas in a pod. I guess the bright difference comes more from the emu. the MD uses some slight dithering here and there. more PLZ

Retro-Nerd · 04/28/2009, 12:55 AM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 04/28/2009, 12:51 AMstriking how the PCE and MD BG screens being as alike as two peas in a pod. I guess the bright difference comes more from the emu. the MD uses some slight dithering here and there. more PLZ

Exactly. The most games look brighter on real hardware, even with a RGB cable. The Dynastic Hero isn't that dim on my Sony CRT.

nectarsis · 04/28/2009, 01:02 AM

Quote from: Retro-Nerd on 04/28/2009, 12:35 AMSorry dude, you wasn't even alive once they released the most of the old consoles/computers. Makes me smile to read all your funny comments.

Yea thats relevant

spenoza · 04/28/2009, 01:10 AM

@RetroNerd

Butting in, I am...

I've been alive since the Atari 2600 was first released, so before the Amiga. And I played lots of games on my Apple II, and I like a lot of them, even the crappy ones. I do agree that the PCE version of SoB looks better than the Amiga version. That's my opinion. Sorry it contradicts yours. There are no truths in preferences, only opinions. Though if you don't start being more polite to people who disagree with you we might start labeling your opinions wrong...

Arkhan Asylum · 04/28/2009, 01:11 AM

Quote from: Retro-Nerd on 04/28/2009, 12:35 AMSorry dude, you wasn't even alive once they released the most of the old consoles/computers. Makes me smile to read all your funny comments.

Beast 3 is indeed no milestone, but better than the dull predecessors. Agony is another great example for style over gameplay. And of course i own a Turbo Duo, Amiga, C64, PSX, Dreamcast etc. Don't blame the computers, if you aren't skilled enough to play games via joystick. What a silly comment.

btw: Composite AND S-Video sucks. I prefer RGB if it's possible. Much better.

About loading times: You never heard about WHDLoad as it seems? There's no need to load Amiga games from floppy disks. I've 1000+ games on my A1200 and can start them faster as you switch your console cartridges.

Amberstar is nice, but Ambermoon is the best Amiga RPG. Very atmospheric stuff from Thalion.

And now stop this shit. It's mild entertainment to read your posts. But i want to see more screenshot comparisons.

Oh jeeze, What does age have to do with it? You don't tell historians 'you werent even alive when the romans were around, so your comments are funny to read!"

Pulling the condescending "back in my day" old man b.s. is so cliche. It is also very insulting to retro-game enthusiasts all over the place. I may only be 21 and some computers may be before my time per se, but it hasn't stopped me from modding and hacking them, along with fixing and programming on them. If you're going to start this nonsense, do you want to talk 6502 for the C64? I do / did more with the C64 than game on it. I surfed the net on the Amiga. It was a mess, but I did it anyways. among other things on it.

Plus, it has nothing to do with joystick proficiency. I just think the Amiga versions of a lot of games control funny IMHO. Sue me. Maybe it's because TAC-3 Joysticks blow. I don't know.

Joysticks don't affect my Atari or C64 performance any (which uses the same joysticks as my Amiga and the same up to jump nonsense). It certainly doesn't effect me on the PCE, Genesis, or NES either.

And ok, WHDLoad, by the time you turn the Amiga on and get everything going, I've already got a game going on Sega. ;) (But I do like WHDLoad alot more than using real disks obviously)

and finally, as for SotB 3, alot of its problem lies in it being BORING. I don't know about you but I find the first game to be the most action packed, and fun.

they both beat the 2nd one out for sure though. That game is just dull, boring, and useless. I am sad I spent the time to finish that one.

so yes, stop this shit.

Retro-Nerd · 04/28/2009, 01:17 AM

Quote from: guest on 04/28/2009, 01:10 AM@RetroNerd

Butting in, I am...

I've been alive since the Atari 2600 was first released, so before the Amiga. And I played lots of games on my Apple II, and I like a lot of them, even the crappy ones. I do agree that the PCE version of SoB looks better than the Amiga version. That's my opinion. Sorry it contradicts yours. There are no truths in preferences, only opinions. Though if you don't start being more polite to people who disagree with you we might start labeling your opinions wrong...

Sorry, but CrackTiger was so obsessed about the Genesis version. The Turbo Duo graphics are indeed better, everybody can see this. And I was the first one who said that it is a matter of taste. BT said that other than the Amiga game graphics must be better and there "couldn't" be other opinions about it.

Tatsujin · 04/28/2009, 01:38 AM

be nice peeps, we're following all the same interests

it's not the my PC rox your console flops era anymore

Joe Redifer · 04/28/2009, 02:41 AM

OK everyone, enough. We are really starting to drag down the thread with this. Arguing over what looks better and why is perfectly fine and encouraged, but the conversation has drifted away from that and now we're just talking about each other's posts. If one of you has a response for another that you're just itching to type, let it go. I think we all get the gist now. Let's get back to arguing about which game looks better.

And Tats, I don't think the color differences between the SNES and Genesis version of Final Fight are super-mega obvious. There are definitely differences, but they certainly don't jump out at you. A PCE version of Final Fight would have been interesting to see.

TurboXray · 04/28/2009, 02:56 AM

Hey, that's cool that we got some other screen shots between two systems other than PCE. I'm all for that. My comments on Final Fight: Yes, the SNES version wasn't all that impressive and while the color is trippled or more than it's counter part - that doesn't excuse the lack of colors on the SegaCD port. It's bad. (Not so bad with a composite connection though) The boss/players/enemies had like 8-9 colors max each (and they look like crap unfiltered and some even look like NES color limitation). The backgrounds decent for most of the game though. I just felt they could have done a much better job with the colorings on the sprites. It's a little bit of a buzz kill for me.

Btw, those SegaCD shots are 12% darker than they should be (whatever version of fusion, it's output 224/224/224 as the max white color). Photoshop->posterize ( parameter of 8 ) fixes that.

termis · 04/28/2009, 03:11 AM

About the color limitations of the Genesis, were there really software tricks to increase its on-screen color count limitation? If so, what game actually made good use of this software trick?

Tatsujin · 04/28/2009, 03:48 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 04/28/2009, 02:41 AMAnd Tats, I don't think the color differences between the SNES and Genesis version of Final Fight are super-mega obvious. There are definitely differences, but they certainly don't jump out at you. A PCE version of Final Fight would have been interesting to see.

did you have both version played on realz hardwarez yet?

as i said, the MCD FF reached a good amount of colors for its capacity, but it's far from the SFC which produces almost CPS1 quality colors. for me, those colors are quite important to reproduce a CPS game flair. that's at what the MD lacks the most. in contrary, beside of the color issue, all the rest is much more arcade like than everything in the SFC port is.

a PCE version indeed would have been very fun. already due to the fact, that our beloved system quite lacks in having good beat'n walks.

Arkhan Asylum · 04/28/2009, 03:56 AM

Quote from: termis on 04/28/2009, 03:11 AMAbout the color limitations of the Genesis, were there really software tricks to increase its on-screen color count limitation? If so, what game actually made good use of this software trick?

you can do a trick on the c64 where you flicker colors to make new colors.

Interleaving or whatever its called.... Its a nice way to get more than 16 colors, lol.

I *think* thats what its called..... the genesis probably did something similar

Tatsujin · 04/28/2009, 04:11 AM

the Genny is the master of dither. anyway, i have seen static pics with more than the allowed 64 colors on screen. but to do the same in an game with lots of sprites and action going on etc. is a different thing.

generally i notice in MD games, the more action on screen, the more poor the colors or use of dither to keep the picture up. see Contra.

TurboXray · 04/28/2009, 04:12 AM

Arkhan: 30hz color. Yuck.

termis: There are a number of tricks, but almost all of them are specifically for stills and such. The most common method is abusing the blurry RF and composite output of the Genesis as seen in those FF pics. The Genesis doesn't alternate the color burst phase every other scanline like the PCE and SNES do. Dithering and vertical interleaved line striping blends together really well to you give you fake colors. IIRC, Joe has some example pics. Better yet, look at videos of Duke Nukem 3D for Genesis on youtube, then play the rom on an emulator with no filters ;)