Fighting game conversions

[Shadowdancer]

I got FFS and swiftly took some screenshot comparisons of it first:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/shinotogipervert/album?.dir=48fd&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%

I have the ARC and PCE screens next to each other but the SNES screens are last cause yahoo wouldn't accept .bmp so i had to change them to jpgs.



Graphically the Arcade/Neo Geo version stomps everything else.

After that I think it's pretty much a toss up between the PCE and SNES versions.

The graphics on the pce version are a little grittier and there's a black box surrounding the names/lifebars of characters in the PCE version (it's kinda hard to notice in the screenshot i took in DK's stage, so i'll probably put up a better pic later).
-I'll also go ahead and add right now that the black boxes in some form are also present in AOF and SFII' for the PCE.  

Still, some of the details seem more vivid in the pce version and inversely some seem more vivid on the snes.

-For instance, in the back-background of duck king's stage, behind the screen to both sides you can see green lights flashing in both the ARC and SNES version but it's pitch black back there in the PCE version.
However, in Mai's stage on the PCE & ARC versions there's a man on a fish(?) that wizzes by that's mysteriously absent from the snes version.

There is also a difference in resolutions.

The sounds of the PCE version are really good.  

Seems like they remixed some of though, I don't like the way Duck King's music starts in the non-neo geo versions.  

Either way, soundwise the snes version gets blown away by the other 2.

Gameplay-wise, there's some issues in both of the ports.

*Now I'm not familiar w/ high level tatics, move priorities, or frame data in any fighting game prior to SFA3 w/ the exception of SSF2T and hyper fighting to some extent, so I can't get too in depth here.  

I can however say that there's some very noticeable speed differences.  I can't quite put my finger on some of them, but the SNES version seemed a little faster than the PCE version overall, but not in every aspect.  

One move I was able to notice speed differences on in particular was Kim's dive kick (d+K while in the air).  

It's definitely faster in the PCE version than every other version.  Snes seemed slowest but it's comparable to the arcade speed.

I should also add that the pce version had noticable load times after picking a character.
Not annoyingly so, just noticably.
Not nearly as bad as the NGCD load times for anything, yuck.

Again, the Neo Geo/Arcade version wins in every aspect by no small margin.

Between the SNES version and the PCE version I really can't declare a clear winner, but since the PCE version stomps the snes version in the sound department and neither one is arcade perfect gameplay-wise, I'll give the PCE version the edge.

I'll post up on SF2' a bit later and AOF....at some point.
Might try out and tack on my opinion of the Sega CD version too but I've heard from far too many reliable sources that it blows chunks in comparison to every other version.

Did I mention AOF sucks?
I really not sure it's worth my time...

[PCEngineHell]

What system are you using?Im using a breifcase combo deck and get maybe like 2 secs load times,and it loads while showing other screens,wasnt noticable really at all for me.Also,the snes port was missing walking animation,the opening intro,had twangy sounds,and a way smaller screen size.Why didnt you mettion any of this?The snes port has a small cropped screen.This stuff does matter to some SNK lovers out there.If your going to compare,be more indepth.The snes port was Takara junk,just like most of the other snes SNK ports.I still have bad dreams of Samurai Shodown......no red blood,no fatals....

[PCEngineHell]

Look at your pics I cant tell if your using real hardware and a capture card,or a emu like Snes9x and Nebula,and Magic Engine....Because of the way the pics are cut,or trimed,I guess you could say,it doesnt expose the true screen aspect of the SNES port,which is displayed in a almost 400-300 like res aspect,like Capcom fighters on Nebula when run in their true res.For those not understanding what I am talking about,the screen is cropped,at the top and bottom,with lovely black bars,to cut down on sprite use,to keep things up to speed,and in the process,the Snes ports graphics are smaller,meaning smaller character size,smaller image,small everything.Its really bad when played on monitors like the Samsung GX TV I think it was called.I had one back in 1999,it was a nice gaming monitor with fold out speakers and a sub built in.Anyway,playing Snes ports of fighting games on it was horrible,so I ended up using it for a Massystem supergun and MVS board.

[Shadowdancer]

I'm using the magic engine emu since I don't have an arcade card.  
I get ~5-6sec load time after selecting characters b/f it goes to the [player] VS [Player] screen.
-that's the only place it's really noticable, but it's really noticable.
--hopefully b/f too long I'll have access to an arcade card so I can try it out in a Duo.
---never really experienced the duo being faster than emu though.

I haven't spent much time with the port as I've only had the PCE version of FFS for few hours as of writing that.

I'd never spent much time w/ the snes port either till last night, I was pretty appauled by it "back in the day" when I first played it but that's b/f I came to terms w/ the fact that all neo geo ports are subpar.

And this is the beauty of posting about this stuff on an nec gaming forum, other people with experience with the material can point out mistakes.
-Though in this case, I don't think I gave any false info, but I did indeed leave a few things out.

You're right about the opening, I dunno how I managed to leave that out.
And the snes version is missing some frames of animation here and there, I have a really hard time catching things like that.
-Like the GGXX is supposed to have a lot of skippy animation, but I can't really tell.
--I do however notice the skippy animation in some games such as the psx port of samsho3.

Also I mentioned a difference in resolution but cropping is a better way to describe it; the SNES version definitely has a squashed look to it.

I already said that "soundwise the snes version gets blown away by the other 2."
I didn't really see the need to go into any more detail than that.
I mean, it's just not comparable at all.

I'll post some better screens of the snes version, as well as some more from the other ones.

I did the snes screens first and ended up having to convert them to jpg b/c yahoo wouldn't take the bmp appearantly and I think that's what caused the problem.

And if you save the pics to your hd and view them outside of yahoo for the ARC and PCE pics at least, you can make them much bigger w/o losing much quality.

And even on the snes pics squashed image should be noticable, but again I'll put up better snes pics that won't go through double conversion.
The black bars at the top and bottom are should be easily noticable too.

Anyway, thanks for pointing those things out.
I love discussing stuff like this.
The internet is wonderful.
-more to come

[esteban]

you know, cropping the screens was a good idea becasue then you have a "standard size" screenshot to make comparisions easier.

Of course, as MH pointed out, you should throw in a disclaimer about the SNES resolution.  Just open your analysis by mentioning the SNES resolution and make a discalimer about cropping.

One thing I was wondering... does the SNES have smooth parallax scrolling?  How does PCE compare to this?

[lord_cack]

I think the whole discussion is a rather mute point. The SNES versions of the 4 fighting games that we can discuss are all decent, those titles being Street Fighter II Turbo, Fatal Fury Special, Art of Fighting, and World Heroes II.

The PC Engine version of those games (Street Fighter II: Champion Edition) are all great. Here is my take on them and the differences are sporatic at best because what the PC Engine seems to be doing better at one thing it is missing something else, the same goes for the SNES versions...

Street Fighter II: Champion Edition for the PC Engine has something odd going on with the scrolling I can't put my finger on what it is. It doesnt look bad, looks great as a matter of fact but, something just off. The character size is about the same as the SNES Turbo Version and they look just about as good. The backgrounds on the PC Engine are lacking in some spots (Guiles stage) and almost exact in others (Zangief's stage). The PC Engine version of the game seems to be missing some of the sound effects (like when you defeat Blanka). But the music is very good in comarison. I think that the PC Engine version controls a little better. The one thing that the SNES version has that is better is the overall detail and resolution is better also it has some forground items, like a piece of fence on Zangief's stage. I think though that the fact that the PC Engine version of SFII:CE holds up against the game this is its successor is quite amazing.

Art of Fighting for the PC Engine has over all better look to it. The zooming effect is better, the backgrounds (overall) are much better, the colors are way better (strangely enough) and the characters are larger. The controls again seem to be alittle tighter. Their is much more animation in the PC Engine version. The sound is better and as with all of the PC Engine ports they keep the same difficulty level as the arcade, whish means they are tough as nails. So I think in this games case the PC Engine version just over all beats the SNES version. But that isn't say much as the game sucks anyway.

Fatal Fury Special I think is better presented over all on the PC Engine. The sound is far better than that of the SNES. The characters appear larger on screen, better color, and have all there animations intact from the arcade. But, both version are missing some background elements. Take Duck Kings level for example. The background colors are overall better on the PC Engine, but the SNES has more of the background (including the lights on the stage have some animation and none on the PC Engine). But the 2 dancers in the center of the background are better animated and larger on the PC Engine version of the game. The colors seem alittle brighteron the PC Engine and the background animation seems to be better. The PC Engine just seems to handle animation better than the SNES. The load times are negligable in my mind. I was never one who minded the load times of games, it is inherent to the format.

As for World Heroes 2 I have not spent as much time with each but the same thing pretty much goes for that game as it does with all the previously mentioned titles. The PC Engine version seem to me atleast to have a better over all presentation and feel to them but the SNES versions hold up well.

But, what truely sets the versions apart is the fact that the PC Engine was at least by the numbers a very underpowered machine. So that in and of itself leads me to say the PC Engine versions are the best.

[GUTS]

Were the PC Engine ports done by Takara?  I know they were pretty lazy on the SNES, but their Genesis ports were generally pretty good.  It would amaze me if the same company that couldn't do a decent conversion of Samurai Showdown on the SNES could pull of a great version of Fatal Fury or Art of Fighting on the PC Engine.

[lord_cack]

No the SNK ports were all done by Hudson. The SNES versions weren't that bad. I never played the genesis versions. Didn't much care for the Genesis back in the day. Plus I hated that Genesis controller....

I would have liked to have seen what the PC Engine could have done with the later SNK games. I believe it could have done Samurai Showdown, at least as good as the SNES version. I think it may have been able to push out King of Fighters. I mean the SNES ground out Street Fighter Alpha 2.

[PCEngineHell]

Flash Hiders is on Super Famicom also,if anyone cares to know.

[lord_cack]

Didn't know that. Any screen shots or other info on the Super Fami version.

[GUTS]

I have that version actually but I've never bothered to play it, I always wanted to get it for Duo instead.  I only picked it up because it was cheap, I might have to bust it out though and give it a shot.

[Shadowdancer]

OK, here's a few more screens:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/shinotogipervert/album?.dir=/4946&.src=ph


Before, I hadn't really had any time to sit down with the PCE and SNES versions but now that I have I can comment a little more on the gameplay.

...just a little.

I've already mentioned the difference in Kim's dive kick speed.

Now I've also tested a simple combo with Terry on the three versions and couldn't get this one to work on the snes version:
Jump in HP or HK > close HP (2 hits) > LP Burn Knuckle

Btw, landing this combo will stun any opponent (unless they were stunned when you started, it will not re-stun) that all hits connect with(Jubei is too small to get hit by the last BK).

On the SNES version I could not get the close HP to combo after the jump-in.

It may still be possible but if so the timing is way off.

Works fine with the greatest of ease on Neo and PCE versions so the pce version is most likely much closer to the arcade version in terms of gameplay, which is the most important aspect of a fighting game.

edit:
I got some jpn ffs match vids so later I'm gonna do some more gameplay tests with some of the combos done in the vids.

more to come...

[lord_cack]

I actually went out and took the Rom for the Super Fami Flash Hiders. It was OK. I don't know the moves but it didn't look all that impressive. I don't know how it would compare to PCE version.

[GUTS]

I remember why I bought Flash hiders now, it was a Right Stuff game.  For some reason I love those guys and have been trying to collect all their games for years.  

That sucks that the snes version wasn't too impressive, I would imagine it's better on Duo since that's where Right Stuff really shined, all their PSX games were pretty disappointing.

[VestCunt]

you can weigh the pros and cons of these fighting games all day, but at the end of the afternoon the girls in the Las Vegas stage of SF2 are hotter on the SNES version.

there....someone had to say it.
 

[PCEngineHell]

LOL,I didnt notice,I was looking at overall graphic quality.The Snes is a hybrid of Champ and Hyper anyway.Ive alwasy loved just plain normal Champion Edition the most,and on my monitor the Pc Engine composite res is sharper the the Snes running on S-video which I have always felt as sad.Not just that but it seemed to me like the details were just sharper,shades and all.Basically I feel the Pc-Engine just produced a cleaner sharper picture.This si however my opinion,on my set-up,and you will obviously be using a different tv monitor or for that matter cheat and play on a emu......