REPAIR GUIDE - TG-CD: Total capacitor replacement chart + useful info

[Platinumfungi]

I've been in the slow but steady process of compiling repair/useful information for our poor friend the TG-CD for awhile now. If you have anything you want to add just let me know 

Here's a chart of all the capacitors in the Turbo Grafx CD Player. I'm in the process of making one for the Docking Station pcbs as well.



Backup: TGCDCap_Chart2.jpg

Here are some tidbits:

Most common problems:

- CD-Rom gears become damaged. May be missing teeth or jammed. (Replacement gears must be substituted)

- CD-Rom grease dries up. (Regrease with white lithium grease)

- Laser wears out. (Adjust, or a replacement laser is required)

- 2 ribbon cables are in backwards. The CD-Rom will not function properly if they are backwards. (Make sure they're inserted properly)




- The switch that checks if the disc tray is open is stuck or damaged. (Inspect, clean, ...not sure about a replacement. I guess you could permanently make the switch think it's "always closed")

- The laser "limit switch" metal contacts need to be cleaned. (Read more about this issue here: pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5063.0

- The safety "Lock" switches on the TG docking station are not in the correct position. (Make sure both switches are in the "Lock" position when trying to play or the system will not turn on)

- Dead power supply. (Find replacement)

- Loose AV ports. Have to wiggle the cable around to get it to work. (Open system and resolder all related joints)

- The ground wire that attaches the top and bottom halves of the CD Player isn't securely connected.



Basic parts information:

Laser Lens:
The stock laser is a "KSS-162A".
A replacement that will work but needs some alteration is a "KSS-220A". I believe this is the proper one here at Electronix for $24.30 (plus shipping) -
http://www.electronix.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?ELECTRONIX_CATALOG_SESSID=434d9ec5c200e3cfafe87c5dfd25ee43&keywords=KSS-220A&x=0&y=0

Nat started a thread about other electronics that can be used as a donor for the laser. Check out the thread here: pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5027.0

For a quick recap, the following products have been identified as suitable donors:

Sony Discman D-4
Sony Discman D-12
Sony Discman D-34

Power Supply:
TG CD (in docking station) - 11VDC 1.53A center negative plug

TG CD (cd player only) - 10.5VDC 650mA (center negative plug I think...)


PCE CD (in docking station) - a suitable replacement is RADIO SHACK part # 273-1771 with Adaptaplug Q
PCE CD (cd player only) - 10.5VDC 650mA (center negative plug I guess...)

Capacitor Information:
I figured I'd start adding this information as well since I've heard mention of caps being a possible suspect (and since it's caps on both the Duo and Express that so frequently cause problems)

In the TGCD CD Player - there are are around 30 electrolytic caps.
In the TGCD Docking Station - there are around 44 electrolytic caps.

I might eventually get around to making a chart for these...but it will be awhile if I do.

CD Player Lid Components:
I've found that on some systems the components in the player's lid that hold a disc in the system can get smashed or damaged, and thus not able to close properly. Here are all the parts:



That's what we've got so far!

RG

[Game-Tech.US]

I had a post a while back about a limit switch issue that should be included, dont know how to link to that thread???

 NEC TG-16/TE/TurboDuo > TG/PCE Repair/Mod Discussion > Another possible TGCD fix for wont spin wont load but laser returns

[BlackandBlue]

Most common problems:

- CD-Rom gears become damaged. May be missing teeth or jammed. (Replacement gears must be substituted)

I made a replacement with a Sony Vaio Laptop Drive, but it's not a full replacement. 

- The switch that checks if the disc tray is open is stuck or damaged. (Inspect, clean, ...not sure about a replacement. I guess you could permanently make the switch think it's "always closed")

Should be easy enough to make a new switch.  It's just a flexible contact that you could probably make out of spare thin metal.  I'll let you know, I have a TGCD coming in that probably has this problem (hopefully thats all).

Power Supply:

PCE CD (in docking station) - ???
PCE CD (cd player only) - ???

PCE CD (IFU) - suitable replacement RADIO SHACK 273-1771 with Adaptaplug Q
PCE CD (CD only) - same as TG16 console power supply

[Platinumfungi]

Updated with your info. Thanks guys

[Game-Tech.US]

Updated with your info. Thanks guys

I didn't actually "grease" the limit switch, I just cleaned the metal contact surfaces inside it and it worked, but maybe it should get a coating of something???
The whole discussion of grease in that thread was about the infamous gear and dried up grease.

[Platinumfungi]

Updated with your info. Thanks guys

I didn't actually "grease" the limit switch, I just cleaned the metal contact surfaces inside it and it worked, but maybe it should get a coating of something???
The whole discussion of grease in that thread was about the infamous gear and dried up grease.

Ah, my mistake  Corrected. I'm not really sure if it does or not. If it originally did then I'd say yes, but I've never taken one apart myself so I have no clue...

[kid_rondeau]

This thread kicks ass. Thanks a lot Red Ghost! I've been so busy this year that I've been neglecting my Turbo!

[Game-Tech.US]

I didn't actually "grease" the limit switch, I just cleaned the metal contact surfaces inside it and it worked, but maybe it should get a coating of something???
The whole discussion of grease in that thread was about the infamous gear and dried up grease.[/quote]
Ah, my mistake  Corrected. I'm not really sure if it does or not. If it originally did then I'd say yes, but I've never taken one apart myself so I have no clue...[/quote]
It didn't originally have any grease inside, just bare metal contacts.
Surely there is a better option than wd-40 for keeping them from corroding though. Dielectric grease?

[Platinumfungi]

kid_rondeau - Any time  I know I'm not the only one cussing at these things... I'll see if I can take some nice macro shots of some of this stuff in the near future and start building upon what we have so far.

akaviolence - Dielectric grease is what I always use in switches I rebuild in general, so I'd say sure. I should really open one myself though and have a look around. One of these days.

[Platinumfungi]

Had a few minutes so I added a handful of photos. More to come...

Please note I have to double check which way the ribbon cables are in the photos. They're old pictures and might be wrong. I'll label which way the correct way is eventually.

[BlackandBlue]

Don't forget about Nat's great thread with the Sony Discmans that have the same laser unit:
https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5027.0

Sony Discman D-4
Sony Discman D-12
Sony Discman D-34

[Platinumfungi]

Don't forget about Nat's great thread with the Sony Discmans that have the same laser unit:
https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=5027.0

Sony Discman D-4
Sony Discman D-12
Sony Discman D-34

Added, thanks! (I'll ask Nat about adding the photos of those 3 drives here for quick reference as well.)

[Platinumfungi]

Just added a TGCD cap replacement chart to the pile. Will add some for the docking station in the near future 

[esteban]

Very nice chart and info. Thanks.

[kid_rondeau]

Fantastic chart. I love you.

Oh, and this thread should be made a sticky.

[kid_rondeau]

My apologies if someone already brought this up, but I found a site that details how to mold your own gears with what appears to be relatively little effort...

http://marshallbrain.blogspot.com/2006/05/casting-your-own-plastic-gears.html

His situation seems to be very similar to ours.

http://www.hobbycast.net/video.htm

The second video shows in detail how it works. Looks like it could be the solution! The prices look alright, but I haven't really investigated too thoroughly...back to work!

If no one gets to this before I do (could be QUITE a while), I am willing to temporarily extract one of the "as of yet undamaged" gears from one of my TG-CD's to make such a mold.

[kattare]

It might be ok if one of us were to take the plunge and sell the resulting pieces... but for one person to do it for one gear...

HobbyCast 110 w/ Mixing kit   HobbyCast 110 w/ Mixing kit
055502/054010 - 2 lb Kit w/ 16 oz mixing kit

   $27.95
 
HobbyMold 160 w/ Mixing kit   HobbyMold 160 w/ Mixing kit
055232/054010 - 2.2 lb Kit w/ 16 oz mixing kit

   $43.25
 
TOTAL WEIGHT:    8.00 lb
TOTAL SHIPPING:    11.36

SUBTOTAL:    71.20
DISCOUNT:    - 0.00
TAX RATE:    0%
TOTAL TAX:    0.00
GRAND TOTAL:    82.56

That's one spendy gear when the entire apparatus (incl new laser) can be had for ~$45 elsewhere on the net.

[kid_rondeau]

Kattare,
admittedly, not an outwardly cheap way to acquire the offending gear, but it really is an investment. I don't know of anyone who has conclusively found an exact match in any other device, and the KSS-162a and 220a (completes) don't have the same gearing that the TG-CD has. The gearing seems to be unique to this device, and one of the gears seems to have been made from a defective plastic.

I can understand if no one sees any pressing need to take this task on right now...and the only reason I'm not is due to financial and time restrictions. But that won't always be the case (knock on wood), and someday I will shell out the $80 or so to be able to make my own gears. My intention is, after a successful run, I will sell them to forum members for a reasonable price. But that's putting the cart before the horse. I just want to attack this common TG-CD problem and make it a thing of the past.
I would consider it a great honor to have such a large role in keeping the systems alive.

[kattare]

That's true... I have a unit here with a broken gear as well.  The gear is all yellowed and the gear tooth broke in my hands when I was just trying to turn it to lubricate it... heh.  depressing.  If someone were able to make a mold, that'd be a one-time cost.

In the meantime, I've been working with a KSS-220A apparatus.  So far I've had some luck dropping in the entire apparatus as a replacement.  Obviously it doesn't fit in the case, but that's my only hangup.  I already got it to play music with the lid off, so I don't think there are any compatibility issues.

[override]

That's true... I have a unit here with a broken gear as well.  The gear is all yellowed and the gear tooth broke in my hands when I was just trying to turn it to lubricate it... heh.  depressing.  If someone were able to make a mold, that'd be a one-time cost.

In the meantime, I've been working with a KSS-220A apparatus.  So far I've had some luck dropping in the entire apparatus as a replacement.  Obviously it doesn't fit in the case, but that's my only hangup.  I already got it to play music with the lid off, so I don't think there are any compatibility issues.

You could always get yourself a NEC-35D or D35? whichever one it is...lol

Heres the link - http://www.computertradeexchange.com/inventory/NECB.html

I ordered one of them from these guys, they have great customer service and shipped really fast and packaged well! Everything in the CD-Drive you get can be used EXCEPT the PCB, its not made compatible for a Duo, although its all the same shape and stuff on the inside, Im sure its a matter of the chips are different on the Board between the two.

[kattare]

Override, I've looked at those before.  I didn't want to take the chance that they were manufactured at the same time and thus have the same gear issue.

I'm starting to lean toward the molding gear.  I successfully dropped an entire kss-220a apparatus into a TG-CD that I just got it from fullnelson the other day.  I had to:

- move 5 caps
- remove the line out jack
- remove the external power jack (yup, it'll never work stand-alone again... big whoop.)
- cut/dremmel/file the crap out of the chassis
- cut/dremmel/file the crap out of the kss-220a
- reverse the leads to the tracking motor

All that is cool and whatnot, but it took freakin' 6 hours...  6 hrs I'm willing to do once, but not 2 more times.  (2x jap briefcase units I need to repair)

Final product works great... unreliably reads CD-R's... probably some tweaking of the pots would get that going, but it's reliable with regular games so I'm gonna leave it be.

Maybe the second time won't take so long I guess... and the kss-220a is only $30.

[kid_rondeau]

Wow,
All things considered, that's pretty cool, Kattare!

[pceslayer]

The Sony Discman D-33 also uses a kss-220a

It looks just like the D-34

[override]

Override, I've looked at those before.  I didn't want to take the chance that they were manufactured at the same time and thus have the same gear issue.

Maybe the second time won't take so long I guess... and the kss-220a is only $30.

Personally I think the extra $15 you would spend on getting the NEC drive, would be worth it! Thats minus probably 5 hours of work, its straight pull out and drop in, and the guys that run that business have GREAT customer service, if you got a drive that had issues with the gears etc. they most likely would refund you every penny or simply swap you drives! Im sure another reason as to why they are charging $45 is cause it also comes with the CD power supply and the CD Interface that allows it to hoook up to the PC. You may get away with it cheaper if you were to ask them for the CD portion only.

All that said, Im glad to hear and see that you got it working! Im sure the pots need a little tweak such as the duo's do with the new hop-m3's...

[kattare]

Were you able to look at the suspect gear on that unit you had and verify that it was not yellowed with age?  If not, it may be worth a shot.  It just makes me nervous I guess... So much $$ for one little gear.  heh.

[Ace]

Override, I've looked at those before.  I didn't want to take the chance that they were manufactured at the same time and thus have the same gear issue.

I'm starting to lean toward the molding gear.  I successfully dropped an entire kss-220a apparatus into a TG-CD that I just got it from fullnelson the other day.  I had to:

- move 5 caps
- remove the line out jack
- remove the external power jack (yup, it'll never work stand-alone again... big whoop.)
- cut/dremmel/file the crap out of the chassis
- cut/dremmel/file the crap out of the kss-220a
- reverse the leads to the tracking motor

All that is cool and whatnot, but it took freakin' 6 hours...  6 hrs I'm willing to do once, but not 2 more times.  (2x jap briefcase units I need to repair)

Final product works great... unreliably reads CD-R's... probably some tweaking of the pots would get that going, but it's reliable with regular games so I'm gonna leave it be.

Maybe the second time won't take so long I guess... and the kss-220a is only $30.

I'll tell you one thing: I'm definitely gonna drop a KSS-220A into my TurboGrafx CD once its gear disintegrates.  It may look REALLY ugly, but I'd take a working TurboGrafx CD that looks like crap than a good-looking TurboGrafx CD that can only serve as a paperweight any day.  And it sure beats the crap out of paying upwards of $80 just to mold a single gear.

[BlueBMW]

Bump, this thread needs a sticky too, as we are starting to see issues with the caps on these units also.

[Keith Courage]

There is a dude on ebay with a gear replacement solution. I had mine repaired by him a couple months ago for $55 and it works great. Just saying if you are going to spend anywhere from $25-$45 for a donor drive you might as well pay someone else to do the work for not much more.

[BlueBMW]

There has been some speculation as to where that ebay guy got his repair info.  He was on here "chris computers" and when asked about how he figured out the two gear solution (a solution in development by chop5 for quite some time now) he clammed up.  Then when we nicely asked for his source of gears in order to help everyone afflicted by this problem, he would not say.  I think he knew that he was using the free repair info from this site in order to profit for himself.  He left here not long afterwards (though some of us think he may still be lurking around because we DO get some great repair information here) 

Bottom line... if you're totally desperate, use that guy.  Personally I think he's taking advantage of the tech crew here and using free information to take advantage of everyday gamers.  He's profiting for himself and not contributing anything back to the community from which he's stealing the repair information.  I tend to fix stuff for little or nothing because I'm more concerned with helping out the community than making personal profit.  This chris computers guy seems more interested in money than anything.

I am very close to perfecting the belt drive replacement system for these units.  So far its proving to be quiet, reliable and dirt cheap!  And when you get something fixed by me, I'm here if there are problems.  I'm on the side of the gamer, not on the side of making money.  I can only ask a little more patience as I'm nearly done developing this solution.  It will cost less than $10 to implement... a far cry from the $55 gouge that guy is charging.

[Keith Courage]

Well that's good news. Maybe if I have a broken drive in the future ill consider sending it to you for repair then.

[Platinumfungi]

Just did a 10 second search and found him. He's "cheapnicecomputers" on eBay for anyone who's interested...

[kid_rondeau]

I have had great results and excellent communication from Chris at cheapnicecomputers. If you can transcend all the bull***t and drama and speculation about his methods and motives, you'll discover a fast, solid repair at a reasonable* price.




*for some, nothing more than like $20 shipped would be considered reasonable. These people will never be happy.

[BlueBMW]

I think the frustration with chris computers comes from the fact that he was on here and utilizing the information we all freely share but then when asked about his source of gears he would not say.  That's my rub with him.  Maybe he does great work, maybe im a commy, but Id rather work together and share repair ideas rather than keep an idea to myself for the sake of making a little bit of money.  That's my take on it.  Im sure chris is a great guy I just wish he'd share what he knows.

[esteban]

I think the frustration with chris computers comes from the fact that he was on here and utilizing the information we all freely share but then when asked about his source of gears he would not say.  That's my rub with him.  Maybe he does great work, maybe im a commy, but Id rather work together and share repair ideas rather than keep an idea to myself for the sake of making a little bit of money.  That's my take on it.  Im sure chris is a great guy I just wish he'd share what he knows.

Exactly. Keeping silent on a potential source for parts, simply for selfish profit, is the surest way to poison the feeling of "community" and upset folks. Even if chris did NOT have a source for parts, he should be in an open, transparent dialogue with everyone here, since we (well, most of us) try to help each other. Otherwise, he comes across as an opportunist who exploits situations, which, ultimately, may or may not be true.

[Keith Courage]

Hey guys, I just found this place http://www.pollin.de/shop/index.html with a much better price on the KSS-220A lens. I just ordered a couple and I'll let you know how they are when I get them. One drawback is I have to pay via COD since they won't take my banking info or a credit card.

[kattare]

Did they arrive?  Does it work?  ;-)

[Keith Courage]

I haven't heard anything from the company or received anything yet. Maybe they don't deliver to the US? At least they could have told me. I got a confirmation receipt and everything.

[kattare]

That bites.  I was gettin my hopes up.  ;-)

[Keith Courage]

Okay guys, I have a weird question that I hope someone can help me with. I was doing some routine maintenance on my turbografx cd drive today. Just checking the lube in the gears, checking tape that holds ribbons etc... and I found a couple solder points on my motherboard that have holes in them. Looks like a capacitor should go there however the drive works just fine the way it is. According to your chart the motherboard is missing a 100uf 16V capacitor. I went ahead and soldered one in and I notice no difference at all in the way the drive runs. Just nice to know it is set up correctly now. Any idea why my drive worked fine without it? I circled the marks in red in the pic below where the cap was missing from.

cimg6045.jpg

I had bought this from someone locally about a year ago and have been using the drive with that capacitor missing this entire time. Makes me wish I had opened it up sooner.

[kattare]

I'd guess it's a filter that isn't strictly necessary...

[Charlie]

C300 is in parallel with C301.  They are the input voltage filter caps. 
The fact that you run well without that cap only means that the other caps on that same circuit have picked up the slack....but also that they are working harder, which means premature failure.  Of course, you know that the caps are prone to that anyway, so no news there.  Also, when you use the CD with the TG16 interface, the caps and power supply in the interface are helping to support proper operation.

Charlie

[blueraven]

Sticky Please.

Great Job RedGhost!

[Platinumfungi]

Sticky Please.

Great Job RedGhost!

Thanks! I've actually requested that this, and some other excellent topics that others have made, become sticky...but haven't gotten any response Maybe we just need to message directly ... RG goes to send Aaron a message  

[PCEngineFX]

Made sticky - thanks for the info RG!

[meka]

I have a  PC Engine CD-ROM2, the problem I have with it that when I am in a game after about 5mins or so the sound cuts off completely and does not come back. I have tried orginal games and copies with the same result, would a total cap replacement solve this issue?

[BlackandBlue]

Sounds more like the laser needs to be adjusted/replaced.  You can test it by starting a game and lightly tapping the side.  If it loses the audio, then most likely reason is the laser is unable to focus and find its place on the disc.  There are some pots on the CD unit that can help if the laser is still good (I think tracking pot), but could be a sign of a laser on its way out.

I have a  PC Engine CD-ROM2, the problem I have with it that when I am in a game after about 5mins or so the sound cuts off completely and does not come back. I have tried orginal games and copies with the same result, would a total cap replacement solve this issue?

[meka]

I tried tapping the side and it lost audio straight away, I only touched it slightly, what are these tracking pots you talk about.

Thanks for the info.

[BlackandBlue]

I can't find the post about the turbo cd, but take a look at this one about the duo.
https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=3586.msg118622#msg118622

There are 4 pots on the turbo cd when you open it, next to the ~1" ribbon connector. I believe you want to try to adjust v102-104. Mark them so you know where your starting point was. They only need slight turns to make an adjustment. I don't think there is a real guide on how to adjust them properly, atleast not one I know of.

I tried tapping the side and it lost audio straight away, I only touched it slightly, what are these tracking pots you talk about.

Thanks for the info.

[BlueBMW]

Start with VR102 and VR104 if your cd isnt spinning at all or not reading well, then move on to VR101 and VR103 until its reading good... do VR105 last if later tracks in a CD have trouble but early tracks dont.

As BlackandBlue said.  Note down the positions of the pots before you start so you can get back to baseline.

You can run the CDROM2 with a genesis power supply and headphones with the bottom shell off so you can access the pots.

[thesteve]

the TG16 supply works well as well