The Search for the Turbo CD Gear

chop5 · 12/12/2010, 11:51 PM

its working!
the first attempt i had that gear from the first pic and used wax and hot glue to center it but it was still off balance and when i plugged it in it spun the worm gear but made the laser go to the far left of the player and freeze there. So i reversed the wires and the laser moved in the right direction but the gear was still struggling because it wasn't centered right so one side would get stuck.
So i scrapped that gear and started to make another with a strong center that will stay center and grip the axle. All the gears i have have wide holes so i stuck another gear in there that fit and could slide down the axle.
Plugged it in and got same results with laser going to center so i reversed the wires and voila! Played tracks 1 thru 5 on this cd i have but the gear kept jamming every once and a while because its still not all the way center and is very thin and isn't gripping like it should. This was enough for me to know I'm making progress and should find the perfect gear to get best results.
I need a 13 or 12 mm diameter gear with a 1.5 or 1.7mm hole.
The search begins!

meanwhile my zombified tgcd craves brains!

Twood1130 · 12/16/2010, 11:50 PM

It looks like things are starting to look up for making gear replacements.

henrycsc · 12/17/2010, 12:18 AM

BMW has one of my CD2's that he's trying to debug the warmup issue on. If that can't be fully resolved, I'd be willing to offer the gear in that one for the mold, since I will want some of the replacement gears once they are ready

.

BMW, do you mind removing the gear and packing it to send to Official Ninja to mold?

And Chop5, BRAVO on the developments to bypass the gears altogether. If we can just find suitable gears to swap them all, that may be the best solution of all!

BlueBMW · 12/17/2010, 11:43 AM

Up to you Henry. Ill do whatever you want with the cdrom2.

If we decide to remove the gear... does anyone have any tips for removing the gear without destroying it.

chop5 · 12/17/2010, 05:53 PM

After spending most of the night tweaking trying to make it work better without the skipping i came to the conclusion its a failure.
With more stability to a smaller(12mm) gear that doesn't fit the shaft and lube it preforemed way better than the second test but still 4 or 5 songs later it would skip a bit. I thought it was from the gear still not centered or wobbly but its darn near perfect so i examined it More closely and found out that the original middle gear had another function,holding down the sled gear that moves the laser. With my second gear the sled gear would bob up and down a bit causing it to skip. I needed something to hold it firmly down like the original gear did. The pressure it gives when it bobs is very high and may be the culprit why the second gear shattered over time from the stress of that gear pushing on it.
I tried tape,that small piece of metal thats originally on it slightly bent to keep it in place but cannot have the metal and screw on there at the same time or my replacement gear wont have enough clearance. Tried and thought of everything with no dice other than drilling holes and anchoring it down. Thats when i knew this is no longer the easy fix i had hoped so that ends it.
It shall remain a zombie.
On to my next possible fix a belt drive like in that other pic i showed.

Theres a chance my gear may still work. If when playing a game and it skips like that would the console refind the position and wont harm gameplay? I cant find out as i have no base.(looks for volunteer or shops around for a base)If it completely crashed the game or goes back to its place may be as good as it gets.

To make a good mold for the second gear it would have to be like those bullet molds 2 piece so someone can pour hot plastic in there as needed.

But still im a bad mofo for zombifying a tgcd and finding the cause why it skips

Screw jailbreak and unbricking terms,the new one is zombified!

nat · 12/17/2010, 09:32 PM

Quote from: chop5 on 12/17/2010, 05:53 PMTheres a chance my gear may still work. If when playing a game and it skips like that would the console refind the position and wont harm gameplay? I cant find out as i have no base.(looks for volunteer or shops around for a base)If it completely crashed the game or goes back to its place may be as good as it gets.

If it skips while reading/loading data, it will retry and retry a certain number of times until it's successful (or it gives up). If it skips while playing CD audio (in-game music), it will just stop playing the music altogether without retrying and the disc will spin down until it's told to either load more or play a different music track.

BlackandBlue · 12/17/2010, 10:15 PM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 12/17/2010, 11:43 AMUp to you Henry. Ill do whatever you want with the cdrom2.

If we decide to remove the gear... does anyone have any tips for removing the gear without destroying it.

Use very small tweezers to pull the c-clip out (its made of thin metal, not much resistance). Then wedge something (perhaps the tweezers?) and slowly work the gear off the pin. I have a pair of blue snips from snapon (I think they are bluepoint) that I used to do the steps with.

BlueBMW · 12/23/2010, 07:36 AM

Ok! Henrycsc has very generously offered the good gear out of his semi-functional frankenrom2 unit that I have in my possession! So everyone cross everything you've got (eyes, nuts, fingers, toes you name it)

Official Ninja · 12/23/2010, 03:43 PM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 12/23/2010, 07:36 AMOk! Henrycsc has very generously offered the good gear out of his semi-functional frankenrom2 unit that I have in my possession! So everyone cross everything you've got (eyes, nuts, fingers, toes you name it)

Thats great.

henrycsc · 12/23/2010, 05:04 PM

Official Ninja, can you document the process as you go, just in case we ever have to replicate some other part?

BMW, I was lookin forward to calling the frankenrom2 "Othelloelloelloello"

BlueBMW · 12/23/2010, 09:19 PM

Quote from: henrycsc on 12/23/2010, 05:04 PMOfficial Ninja, can you document the process as you go, just in case we ever have to replicate some other part?

BMW, I was lookin forward to calling the frankenrom2 "Othelloelloelloello"

Haha nice!

Official Ninja · 12/28/2010, 06:58 AM

Quote from: henrycsc on 12/23/2010, 05:04 PMOfficial Ninja, can you document the process as you go, just in case we ever have to replicate some other part?

Yeah, I'll take pics of each step of the process. Probably throw together a page on my tripod space to document it.

VestCunt · 01/02/2011, 09:40 PM

Hey all. Just found the thread - very exciting! I'll buy a couple gears when the time (hopefully) comes.

nikdog · 01/03/2011, 12:16 AM

So wait, did ninja actually get a gear to have made?

Official Ninja · 01/03/2011, 07:00 AM

The gear got to me just before the new year. So this month I'll be talking with my brother about what things we need to order in the attempt to mold copies. 1st hurdle I see is that its so very small but a mold needs a port to inject the material and a port for air to exit. Not much room, but I don't think its impossible.

The thing that bothered me the most, is when I 1st got the gear, I installed it in my TGCD, just to see it working again after all these years. Well, it did not work. It make a small "clunk" sound like something wants to go but can't quite break free to move. This is basically the same thing it did before I opened it and found a broken gear all those years ago. I didnt want to harm the gear. So I turned it off and removed the gear. I did notice though, that I could easily move the gears with my fingers, so nothing was hung up as far as the gears. I really wonder if we make new gears, how many TGCD units will actually work in the end anyway! Also of note is when I try the TGCD with no gear, you can hear the motor turn on and spin, so its not the motor either.

I'll post more when we decide how to proceed! :-)

henrycsc · 01/03/2011, 08:44 AM

Chop5 and others can probably answer this better, but it's not just the gear that is the problem. When the gear is bad, fixing any of the other things is pointless because the gear is the weak link in the chain.
Your CD probably needs a new laser or maybe other parts too, but those can be found. A replacement gear has yet to be found.

nikdog · 01/03/2011, 11:38 AM

The motor cable could be plugged in backwards (pretty sure I have done that before).

SignOfZeta · 01/03/2011, 12:28 PM

Um...I would not being doing anything with the gear except recasting it. Much like with donated human organs, each functioning gear basically represents a functioning CDROM2. If this project comes to fruition it won't be a problem, but at this point if you break a gear you are basically dooming a CDROM2 somewhere to not working. Sure, not every broken CDROM2 is down because of the gear, but I guarantee that if I had a gear, I could find a CDROM2 to fix with it. If I had 10 gears, I could fix 10 CDROM2s, etc. Again, this will change if the new gears get made.

Official Ninja · 01/03/2011, 01:35 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 01/03/2011, 12:28 PMUm...I would not being doing anything with the gear except recasting it. Much like with donated human organs, each functioning gear basically represents a functioning CDROM2. If this project comes to fruition it won't be a problem, but at this point if you break a gear you are basically dooming a CDROM2 somewhere to not working. Sure, not every broken CDROM2 is down because of the gear, but I guarantee that if I had a gear, I could find a CDROM2 to fix with it. If I had 10 gears, I could fix 10 CDROM2s, etc. Again, this will change if the new gears get made.

I wouldn't spend time and money casting something I didn't make sure was the right part. I don't doubt anyone, but that was the 1st step. I happened to find out in the process that my unit has that darn warm up issue. It would have been so nice to see it boot a game though...The gear was never in any danger. Everything was free spinning and this gear has held up well. Not like mine that fell apart when I touched it!

I would have liked to see the unit work before I go forward, but I'll have to go on the fact that in slides on the shaft and seems to fit well enough.

Tomorrow I'm going to bring the gear to my job and we will order the materials. My brother has more experience with plastic casting than I, so I'm curious to see what he says when he sees it in person.

Official Ninja · 01/04/2011, 01:08 PM

We looked at the gear today and everything looks doable. I've already cut shafts for the mold that will be the gears center hole. I ordered mold parts and it should get to me by the end of the week. Fedex express saver shipping. My brother doesn't like that my TGCD doesn't run because if we make these and sell them to people, it would be nice to first see the finished product run and work. I'm really hoping my unit still has the warm up issue and not any other issue. This way at least I can throw the 1st cast gear in it and let it sit for a while to see if it starts.
Well, 1st things 1st. We need gears to solve the warm up issue I suppose.

BlueBMW · 01/04/2011, 01:51 PM

I have a unit ready and waiting for a gear if you get some samples for testing. Infact its the donor unit of the gear you're molding.

Official Ninja · 01/04/2011, 02:36 PM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 01/04/2011, 01:51 PMI have a unit ready and waiting for a gear if you get some samples for testing. Infact its the donor unit of the gear you're molding.

Cool. I thought that unit also had the warm up issue, no?

BlueBMW · 01/04/2011, 04:48 PM

It does but after 10 minutes it functions perfectly. It should be sufficient to test a gear with.

pngo · 01/04/2011, 08:18 PM

Hi there.

I have been following this thread for the last few weeks. I would be interested in getting a few replacement middle gears.

I also think there are people on the french necstasy forum who would be like me.
Actually someone there managed to make a mould but apparently the mould broke down at some point while creating a gear.

http://forum.necstasy.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3332

Duo_R · 01/04/2011, 09:09 PM

What is the warmup issue on TGCD? Is that a cap problem?

BlueBMW · 01/04/2011, 09:10 PM

Quote from: Duo_R on 01/04/2011, 09:09 PMWhat is the warmup issue on TGCD? Is that a cap problem?

Not really sure honestly. I've tried replacing caps on units that exibit this problem. No change. I even tried replacing the BA@$%$ chips (the big long black ones that get real hot during use) and still nothing. I also tried a new voltage regulator, still nothing. Its strange

Duo_R · 01/04/2011, 09:12 PM

So the system has to be on for like 10 minutes to work? That sounds awfully suspicious like a cap problem. Has all of the caps been swapped out?

Quote from: BlueBMW on 01/04/2011, 09:10 PM
Quote from: Duo_R on 01/04/2011, 09:09 PMWhat is the warmup issue on TGCD? Is that a cap problem?
Not really sure honestly. I've tried replacing caps on units that exibit this problem. No change. I even tried replacing the BA@$%$ chips (the big long black ones that get real hot during use) and still nothing. I also tried a new voltage regulator, still nothing. Its strange

BlueBMW · 01/04/2011, 09:45 PM

Quote from: Duo_R on 01/04/2011, 09:12 PMSo the system has to be on for like 10 minutes to work? That sounds awfully suspicious like a cap problem. Has all of the caps been swapped out?
Quote from: BlueBMW on 01/04/2011, 09:10 PM
Quote from: Duo_R on 01/04/2011, 09:09 PMWhat is the warmup issue on TGCD? Is that a cap problem?
On the unit I was doing all these tests on, I changed out each and every cap. Tested each new one before installing it, and tested all the old ones when I took them out. No change I'm calling it the rom rom plague plague.

Not really sure honestly. I've tried replacing caps on units that exibit this problem. No change. I even tried replacing the BA@$%$ chips (the big long black ones that get real hot during use) and still nothing. I also tried a new voltage regulator, still nothing. Its strange

NecroPhile · 01/06/2011, 04:51 PM

I wonder what this dude is using for "more reliable different style replacement" gears.

henrycsc · 01/06/2011, 05:16 PM

It sounds like he's buying a "donor drive" to replace parts. Probably just getting junk drives from Japan that have other issues. Sometimes you see large lots of broken stuff available (but a lot of those could be bad too - hence his price).

Quote from: guest on 01/06/2011, 04:51 PMI wonder what this dude is using for "more reliable different style replacement" gears.

BlueBMW · 01/06/2011, 07:11 PM

Isn't there that one NEC cdrom unit (the ones you and I looked at henry) what is the CD-35 or something? Maybe those are offering a donor gear.

henrycsc · 01/06/2011, 08:24 PM

They probably are - the NEC CDR-35D Drive, but I think they go for $40/each as well, and probably aren't too common these days either.

Quote from: BlueBMW on 01/06/2011, 07:11 PMIsn't there that one NEC cdrom unit (the ones you and I looked at henry) what is the CD-35 or something? Maybe those are offering a donor gear.

BLADES OF STEAL · 01/06/2011, 09:10 PM

I'm intrested in what's causing the warm up issue as well. I also want to know if it's a problem that will eventually get worse and stop the unit from working.

nikdog · 01/07/2011, 08:31 AM

Quote from: BlueBMW on 01/06/2011, 07:11 PMIsn't there that one NEC cdrom unit (the ones you and I looked at henry) what is the CD-35 or something? Maybe those are offering a donor gear.

My entire middle section is from a CDR-35D. The laser assembly mount holes on the orignal centre section are gone and the original gear was bad. So I just swapped out the centre.

Official Ninja · 01/07/2011, 08:49 AM

I just sent that ebay seller this message:

My TG-CD drive is missing the yellowish middle gear. Also, it has a "warm up issue" where it won't start spinning and booting a disc until after it has been left turned on for a period of 30 mins or more! Can you fix my drive? Also what if you are unable to fix it? What is the time frame from when you get the drive to fix it and send it back?

I just might try him depending on how he answers.

nikdog · 01/07/2011, 08:51 AM

Quote from: Official Ninja on 01/07/2011, 08:49 AMI just sent that ebay seller this message:

My TG-CD drive is missing the yellowish middle gear. Also, it has a "warm up issue" where it won't start spinning and booting a disc until after it has been left turned on for a period of 30 mins or more! Can you fix my drive? Also what if you are unable to fix it? What is the time frame from when you get the drive to fix it and send it back?

I just might try him depending on how he answers.

I messaged him saying "What are you using for more reliable different style replacement gears?"

Official Ninja · 01/07/2011, 08:54 AM

Quote from: nikdog on 01/07/2011, 08:51 AM
Quote from: Official Ninja on 01/07/2011, 08:49 AMI just sent that ebay seller this message:

My TG-CD drive is missing the yellowish middle gear. Also, it has a "warm up issue" where it won't start spinning and booting a disc until after it has been left turned on for a period of 30 mins or more! Can you fix my drive? Also what if you are unable to fix it? What is the time frame from when you get the drive to fix it and send it back?

I just might try him depending on how he answers.
I messaged him saying "What are you using for more reliable different style replacement gears?"

We hope to have a bunch of replacement gears soon! Still waiting on supplies that should get to me today or tomorrow. Then next week the process begins.

nikdog · 01/08/2011, 03:53 AM

Dear nikdog05,

These are gears from many older sony discman cd
drives.

- cheapnicecomputers

Official Ninja · 01/09/2011, 11:38 AM

Quote from: nikdog on 01/08/2011, 03:53 AMDear nikdog05,

These are gears from many older sony discman cd
drives.

- cheapnicecomputers

I'd like to know what model discman... I have d-11 and d-34 and they are not the same gears only the same laser.

Also his reply to me is that he can improve the warm up issue but not solve it.

Official Ninja · 01/11/2011, 08:45 AM

Little update.

I got all the parts we needed to start molding. So, sometime this week we will start trying to copy this gear. I'll post back here with any success or failure.

SignOfZeta · 01/11/2011, 01:38 PM

One time, at least 8 years ago, some chick emailed me completely out of the blue and asked me if I still had my Sony D-66 Discman. I told her that I did and that it still worked, but it skipped easy now and the original NiCad battery was (obviously) junk by this point. She said she didn't care about any of that and just wanted the thing, so I sold it to her for $30 or something like that.

I later decided that the only way she, a random stranger, could have known about me owning one of these (since 1991) was because I mentioned it in a conversation on the Minidisc Mailing List. We were talking about how "new" Sony stuff (new in 2000) was junk and the old stuff was more reliable. I had to warrantee a Discman I bought that year whearas the old D-66 was still going.

So, could she have wanted my D-66 just for a gear inside? Would it be for a TG-16 CD or something else? Honestly, I have no idea and I wouldn't bet on it. I will say though that if you come across a D-66 at the Salvation Army store...buy it so we can know. I haven't seen one in ages.

nikdog · 01/11/2011, 03:22 PM

awesome

Official Ninja · 01/12/2011, 12:27 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 01/11/2011, 01:38 PMOne time, at least 8 years ago, some chick emailed me completely out of the blue and asked me if I still had my Sony D-66 Discman. I told her that I did and that it still worked, but it skipped easy now and the original NiCad battery was (obviously) junk by this point. She said she didn't care about any of that and just wanted the thing, so I sold it to her for $30 or something like that.

I later decided that the only way she, a random stranger, could have known about me owning one of these (since 1991) was because I mentioned it in a conversation on the Minidisc Mailing List. We were talking about how "new" Sony stuff (new in 2000) was junk and the old stuff was more reliable. I had to warrantee a Discman I bought that year whearas the old D-66 was still going.

So, could she have wanted my D-66 just for a gear inside? Would it be for a TG-16 CD or something else? Honestly, I have no idea and I wouldn't bet on it. I will say though that if you come across a D-66 at the Salvation Army store...buy it so we can know. I haven't seen one in ages.

The old Discman units with line out on the back, are sought after by audio people. I keep a D-11 hooked up to my system all the time. Nice and warm sounding player through the line out. I also keep a D-34 to use with headphones.

Official Ninja · 01/19/2011, 08:05 AM

Yesterday, I cut the mold walls. A whole bunch of them to try different molds.
My brother is going to assemble them and make a 1st attempt at casting.
I'll post here with the results. Shouldn't be long now.....

Keith Courage · 01/27/2011, 03:34 PM

Just thought I'd share this. I got lucky. Went to good will today and found an old Sony D-3 CD player. The lens is a Kss-160A not sure if that is compatible with a Turbo CD. However, the lens motor is the FF-050SH and it also has the special middle gear for Turbo CDs that always break.

Twood1130 · 01/29/2011, 09:56 AM

Did the gear work in the system?

kid_rondeau · 01/30/2011, 06:05 AM

There's one on eBay now for $35. They sure look like they could be the same internally.

Marll · 02/08/2011, 11:54 AM

Any more news on this?

Official Ninja · 02/08/2011, 06:03 PM

We havent done much. My brother who will be doing the molding is changing jobs right now. This means we wont work together anymore. Kinda sux. Also he has a 1yr old daughter who is very awesome, but very time consuming. :-)

Soon we will get to it. I didn't go away.

Charlie · 02/08/2011, 06:07 PM

As any FYI, the D-3, the D-10, the D-30 and the D-100 all have the same drive mechanism. Probably other models, also. This might widen the search parameters and result in more possible sources, assuming the gears match the TURBO CD in the first place, of course.

As a favor, can someone publish a full set of pictures of the drive mechanism, including a close-up of the gear drive train? And, is the drive in the TURBO CD different from the drive in the PCENGINE DUO?

Thanks
Charlie