Sega Master System games: Did it hurt the Turbo?

[esteban]

Hey all, new member. Love the TG16 and been occasionally checking out these forums for a couple years now, but been doing it more frequent recently so I decided to join up.

Welcome, Mishran


SMS and TG-16:

Social, Practical, Economic Factors
If you were economically semi-independent during 1985-1990, you had more freedom of choice. I wasn't; I had to save birthday money to buy things, so choosing a console was influenced by many things.

Growing up, 96% of the serious (obsessed) video game fiends had NES. It was 1985-1990, we were kids, and our parents bought the goddamn things. Even when kids had a choice, you better believe the social component was crucial in the decision-making process: who will you be able to borrow games from, who will you trade/sell/buy with? Even when folks were AWARE of alternatives, there were very practical economic incentives to choose NES.

Now, I happened to think that, overall, the NES had the best library of games, because I was only occasionally jealous or envious of the SMS games some friends had. Yes, it's true: there was a small, but loyal, support network for SMS in my area, which was cemented and nurtured by the local video store that carried a great selection of SMS titles. The owner had kids, so he was buying the games for his kids to play, then he rented them when they got bored. As a parent now, I would love the opportunity to do something like this! Secretly, of course, I wanted to play ALL games on all platforms, including computers, but I rationalized away the envy/frustration by saying, "The NES is the best compromise, considering the serious lack of money."

But, honestly, outside of a small cadre of SMS fans, SMS WAS NON-EXISTENT. By the time Genesis and TG-16 were out, all the SMS fans migrated to GENESIS (Sega should have called it SAVIOR, because that is how the SMS fans viewed it!)

For the record, I really liked the SMS, but did not think it was "essential". I did not feel that way about the Genesis, though. Everyone had been anticipating its release. Then a funny thing happened: I saw a few games that really appealed to me (Blazing Lazers, Legendary Axe, etc.) and suddenly I didn't care about all the practical concerns listed above: I was older, I just wanted to play this new, obscure system that intrigued me.

Genesis would have been the more practical, better choice for me (for all the reasons the NES was the best choice), but I decided to take a chance. Luckily, my younger brothers were easy to influence, and they committed all of their birthday and Xmas money to fund TG-16.

Bottom line: As soon as I got a real job, I bought an SMS and all the used carts I could find.

What was the topic?

[CrackTiger]

Unfortunately not in Japan. Still have to get me that back bone adaptor and and Dragon's trap, Vigilante, rastan saga and choplifter. And FM here it comes

Unfortunately the fm sound, if it's actually in the rom, doesn't work. The Brazillian version (Monica de Turma?) does have fm sound though, but it doesn't sound complete. Some of the PSG channels haven't been replaced.

[Tatsujin]

Strange, I have proof (even the sound files) of Dragon's Trap in FM. And I've read that if Dragon's Trap is played on a FM moded oversea sms or Japanese sms, the FM sound will be enabled!!?

[CrackTiger]

Strange, I have proof (even the sound files) of Dragon's Trap in FM. And I've read that if Dragon's Trap is played on a FM moded oversea sms or Japanese sms, the FM sound will be enabled!!?

The fm tracks do exist and I assume that they were done by the original developer. But just like Phantasy Star, the North American version doesn't produce any fm in my Mark III SMS and I'm pretty sure that I tried it in my Gam*boy that has working fm sound. But like I said, the Brazillian version works fine.

[JoshTurboTrollX]

Saying the Master System hurt US TG sales, is like saying the Atari 7800 hurt it's sales.  I mean the 7800 did have Mario, Donkey Kong, Pac Man and NINJA GOLF.

Actually come to think of it, I'm a little shocked the only Pacman game we got was that side scrolling SMB wannabee..... thats too bad.

[turbogrfxfan]

I dunno why people keep comparing the turbo to the sms???  Maybe the east coast was different but back in the day it was either the nes or sms..    the turbob wasnt even a factor..  for me at the time.  nintendo didnt have its snes out so it was the genny and turbo in compitetion with each otheras the next generation.  imo the sms lost to nintendo and it was a decision on buying the turbo or genny.  It makes no sense for someone to think of buying a sms when the genny was in compiption w/ the turbo.

Besides the games we've talked about, the TG16 and SMS have a surprising amount in common that makes them worthy of comparison.  Unlike their competitors, they're both unusual in that they don't fit neatly into the categories of "console generations" that has been widely adopted in recent years.  Wikipedia and Gamefaqs might list them as forth- and third-generation consoles respectfully, but things aren't black and white and they co-existed for most of the same years. 

Dude!

"next generation game system"        adapted in recent years?  and I dont care about what was sold in japan  This is about us sales.  and yes nec did fit in cause thats the reason why the bit was started.  Ur not making sense

[VestCunt]

I dunno why people keep comparing the turbo to the sms???  Maybe the east coast was different but back in the day it was either the nes or sms..    the turbob wasnt even a factor..  for me at the time.  nintendo didnt have its snes out so it was the genny and turbo in compitetion with each otheras the next generation.  imo the sms lost to nintendo and it was a decision on buying the turbo or genny.  It makes no sense for someone to think of buying a sms when the genny was in compiption w/ the turbo.

Besides the games we've talked about, the TG16 and SMS have a surprising amount in common that makes them worthy of comparison.  Unlike their competitors, they're both unusual in that they don't fit neatly into the categories of "console generations" that has been widely adopted in recent years.  Wikipedia and Gamefaqs might list them as forth- and third-generation consoles respectfully, but things aren't black and white and they co-existed for most of the same years. 

Dude!

"next generation game system"        adapted in recent years?  and I dont care about what was sold in japan  This is about us sales.  and yes nec did fit in cause thats the reason why the bit was started.  Ur not making sense

Your arguments will be stronger if you take the time to communicate effectively - spell, capitalize, use punctuation, and get your remarks outside of the quote.

The history from Japan is relevant because when our early Turbografx games-to-be were first programmed on the PCE they were contemporaries of the 8-bit era.  When JJ and Jeff was made there was no Super Famicom or Mega Drive and NEC, Sega, and SNK weren't slapping the numbers "16" or "24" on their consoles anything.

A couple years later, NEC brings the PCE to the U.S.  It's not 1987 anymore: the NES is king, the SMS has just been superseded by the Genesis, and they can't just market it as a cool new console like they did in Japan (correct me if I'm wrong).  No, it has to have "16" in the name and be a "next generation" cut above the current crop because the Genesis just launched two weeks before them with "16-bit" plastered across the front.  That's fine for marketing, but the the first wave of orange-label games they're rushing over from Japan are one- or two-years-old.  Some, like Keith Courage, look truly next generation.  Others, like Vigilante and World Court Tennis, look like souped-up 8-bit games IMO.

Furthermore, four of those first-impression, orange-label games are already available on the SMS which North Americans are rapidly writing off. 

So, to summarize your points that I'm trying to address:
1)  Did the pre-existing SMS games impact the TG16?  That's up for debate. 

2)  Is the TG16 strictly a "16-bit, forth-generation" console?  In my opinion, no, it spanned the third and forth generations.

3)  Why are we comparing the SMS and TG16?  I hope I've made that painfully clear.

As for the "console generation" terminology, I'm not talking about advertising.  I'm talking about the neat little packages of "third generation", "forth generation", etc. nonsense fans have grouped consoles into on wikipedia and elsewhere.  I never heard anyone refer to these categories until five or ten years ago. 

[Tatsujin]

2)  Is the TG16 strictly a "16-bit, forth-generation" console?  In my opinion, no, it spanned the third and forth generations.

I have to kinda agree with that opinion. Nevertheless it was still enough powerfull that it could hold up with the "real forth-gen." players, and even surpass them in certain segments.

[Arkhan Asylum]

I find it hard for the SMS to beat out the NES, personally.

I blame the lack of RPG presence.

Granted the SMS had a terribly small selection of RPGs, but the ones it did have were very good.

I'd say the following games hold their own against the NES equivalents.
Phantasy Star = Final Fantasy
Ultima IV = Ultima Avatar
Golden Axe Warrior < Zelda 1
Ys > Dragon Warrior
Miracle Warriors = ?

Throw in psuedo rpgs like Lord of the Sword, Golvellius, Spellcaster, Gauntlet, Kings Quest, Populous, Dragon Crystal, and Alex Kidd High-Tech and the SMS wasn't that bad.

The Ultima comparison kinda doesn't work for me since the two are radically. frigging. different.  I like them both really, but if I am going to play the PC style ones, id rather play on the PC....

anyway, yes it wasn't that bad but it had no longstanding series.  FF had 3 games, DQ had 4 games, Wizardry 1 and 2 happened, we got THREE ultima games....Scheherezade, ghost lion, and then if you count Japan there was a bunch of other stuff....


I will say Golvellius pummels Zelda though.

There weren't enough console-style RPGs though.  and it really sucked, because PS proved it could be done amazingly on the system.

[lord_cack]

I think its kind of funny we would speculate weather or not the SMS impacted the sales of the Turbo. Honestly, the point is really null. The NES and Nintendo's legal practices had the only real impact on the scene at the time, in my opinion anyway. The thought that the SMS effected sales of the Turbo at all are quite small I would think.

The NES had the variety, with most of the games, as mentioned in previous posts, either being equal too or better than the ones available on other systems at the time. They had the best Sports titles (thats ALL sports titles Football, Golf, Tennis, Basket.... you get the point), with the exception of Phantasy Star, the NES has the best RPG's, certainly the best Action and Adventure games. You see where this goes from here.

Even if arguments could be made comparing the quality of the titles, the quantity can't be compared. But even then the last nail in the coffin so to speak is price. The best games for the NES where easily accessible with the purchase of the core unit alone, because thats all there was. You didn't have to buy more accessories (CD-ROMS etc.). While that also holds true with the SMS, the titles just weren't there, nor were they as widely available.

[grahf]

Since everyone here is from a different area, It's interesting hearing the different stories. When I was growing up, I had one friend with an SMS. He mentioned a few times how awesome it was, but didn't really try to champion it or anything. In my neighborhood (Northeast Philadelphia) the NES was the undisputed king. Esteban pretty much nailed the reasons why.

[TurboXray]

Besides the games we've talked about, the TG16 and SMS have a surprising amount in common that makes them worthy of comparison.  Unlike their competitors, they're both unusual in that they don't fit neatly into the categories of "console generations" that has been widely adopted in recent years.  Wikipedia and Gamefaqs might list them as forth- and third-generation consoles respectfully, but things aren't black and white and they co-existed for most of the same years.

What? Since when didn't the SMS fit into the '8bit' generation? Or whatever generation you want to call it. The same generation as the NES. The difference between the SMS and the NES is even less than the difference between the Genesis and the SNES. Overlapping years means nothing. The MD came out in 1988. Famicom was still strong and '8bit' software was still being developed as well as the primary share of the market. Even more so over here in N/A. Following your logic, the only true 16bit console would have been the Super Famicom.

A couple years later, NEC brings the PCE to the U.S.  It's not 1987 anymore: the NES is king, the SMS has just been superseded by the Genesis, and they can't just market it as a cool new console like they did in Japan (correct me if I'm wrong).  No, it has to have "16" in the name and be a "next generation" cut above the current crop because the Genesis just launched two weeks before them with "16-bit" plastered across the front.  That's fine for marketing, but the the first wave of orange-label games they're rushing over from Japan are one- or two-years-old.  Some, like Keith Courage, look truly next generation.  Others, like Vigilante and World Court Tennis, look like souped-up 8-bit games IMO.

I don't think NEC decided to tack on "-16" to the turbografx label just because the US Genesis was released two weeks earlier with such the branding. Marketing is always looking for an edge in the form of a phrase or word, so show the difference of their product. Sega used '16bit' because that was the obvious difference. In reality, it was raw clock speed that was the real difference (at least for CPU). The NES could have very well used a 16bit processor at 1.79mhz. It wouldn't have changed anything. There would still be flicker, limited colors, limited graphics via small cache of tiles/sprites. The term "16bit graphics" was also a marketing term. There were not literal 16bit graphics. The term is an extension of the branding of the generation. And the original Megadrive had big bold letters declaring "16bit" right on the console. It started in Japan, it just didn't have much of an effect I guess.

 I never understand why people have such a hard time fitting the PCE/TG16 into the generation after NES/SMS. The hardware easily puts it there:
 - over 4 times the speed of the NES/SMS
 - 18 times the amount of unique colors onscreen (without tricks) compared to the NES, 15x more than the SMS
 - 8 times total the amount of cached tiles compared to the NES and SMS
 - 4 times the BG map size in vram than the NES, 8 times that of the SMS
 - over 7 times the full screen sprite coverage compared to the NES and SMS
 - 4 times the amount of sprite pixel per scanline bandwidth of the NES and SMS
 - 16 times the sprite size (single sprite) of the NES and SMS
 - 32 times the cart size without a mapper (stock) than the NES and SMS, 64 times if you count the whole address range.
 - 8 times the size of the master palette of the NES and SMS
 - Full real supported X/Y/Palette/other video functions *per* scanline in a proper (non hackish) setup. NES (hackish) and SMS have neither
 - Full bandwidth to VRAM (read or write) during active display. NES and SMS have neither
 - 7 times the vram bandwidth (local memory to vram transfer) of the NES and SMS.
 - 5 times the amount of direct pixels in sprites than the NES, same on the SMS though
 - 8 times the number of total subpalettes of the NES, 16 times that of the SMS
 - 4 times the number of sprite subpalettes of the NES, 16 times that of the SMS
 - 4 times the number of BG subpalettes of the NES, 8 times that of the SMS
 - 2 times the frequency resolution of the NES audio range, 4 times that of the SMS (PSG)
 - 6 times the number of digital PCM channels than the NES, SMS has no digital PCM channels
 - Real stereo with panning for all audio channels and a master one as well. NES and SMS are mono
 - Easily over 100 waveform definitions (user defined waveform playback) for all channels compared to the SMS 1 (PSG) and the NES 4 (3 square type and 1 triangle)

 The SMS is only a step up in the amount of colors per cell (tile cell or sprite cell) over the NES. It's inferior in a lot of other ways: no sprite table DMA to vram compared to the NES, less audio channels/no PCM channel/no different waveform types/less frequency range and resolution than the NES, smaller tilemap size than the NES (SMS map size is archaically small - single screen), raw cpu clock is faster on the SMS but the z80 is much slower than the 6502 - so it's the same real speed and sometimes slower, NES has vram for tile/sprite cells on the cart and can easily swap out large number of bytes in vram with just a handful of cpu cycles while the SMS has no DMA and has to manually slowly update vram. I could go on and on. The SMS has one significant increase in color over the NES and a number of inferior features compared to it as well. The SMS is in no way a transitional generation system.

 Looks at the dates too: Famicom released in 1983, SMS in 1985(2 years after Famicom), PCE in 1987 (4 years after famicom), MD in 1988 (5 years after famicom, but 3 years after SMS, 1 year almost to date after the PCE). 1 year separates the MD and PCE. Not a much separates the PCE and the MD in tech specs relative to both systems compared to the Famicom and SMS. Neither of the PCE or MD completely over specs one another either. Even the Super Famicom released in 1991 doesn't *completely* over spec either the PCE or the MD, but all three over spec the Famicom and the SMS.

 PCE does have more generation transitional software than the MD or SFC. But I think that's pretty common for the first system out the door. ROM speed was much faster than the NES and SMS, leading to higher prices and smaller ROM sizes. Problem is that the rom sizes didn't weren't in scaled proportion of what was needed for the scaled hardware relative to the NES and SMS. Hucards should have been a minimum of 4Mbits starting, 6mbits upper average, and 8Mbits for top tier for the first two years. That's what was need to keep in scale with the other 8bit systems. Not the usual 2Mbit and later/rarer 3Mbit the first two years. I guess NEC wanted to emphasize the CDROM addon difference. PCE's transitional feeling softs sold much more in numbers than Sega's everything but transitional feeling/playing softs.

[DragonmasterDan]

The four years released between the Famicom and the PCE (and four years between NES and TG16) right away is a big indicator. I consider the PCE as part of the generation after the NES, SMS and 7800. Not a part of it, or even borderline.

Bits don't really matter, if we went by bits the Xbox isn't in the same generation as Dreamcast, PS2 and GameCube as the Celron in it is merely 32-bit. The hardware in the PC Engine is significant enough of an upgrade for it to be closer to the Genesis or SNES than the NES or SMS.

[NecroPhile]

Bits don't really matter, if we went by bits the Xbox isn't in the same generation as Dreamcast, PS2 and GameCube as the Celron in it is merely 32-bit.

The cpus in the Dreamcast and Gamecube are also 32 bit, though I agree that bits don't determine how consoles should be grouped.

[DragonmasterDan]

The cpus in the Dreamcast and Gamecube are also 32 bit, though I agree that bits don't determine how consoles should be grouped.

Didn't the GameCube only have a 32-bit ALU? From my understanding the Gekko was a Power PC running in 64-bit mode.

[malicedoom]

In my 3+ years at NEC, I don't ever recall us having a discussion about the Sega Master System having any sort of negative impact on the TG-16's sales.

It was the Genesis that killed us.  Practically killed us outright, in fact.  That and our own, shoddy marketing (and the fact we took FOREVER to port games over from Japan, didn't secure enough 'trademark' games, like Spiderman, etc.)

So many things...

 

[NecroPhile]

Didn't the GameCube only have a 32-bit ALU? From my understanding the Gekko was a Power PC running in 64-bit mode.

I don't think there were any 64 bit PowerPC processors until the G5 in '03ish.

[JoshTurboTrollX]

In my 3+ years at NEC, I don't ever recall us having a discussion about the Sega Master System having any sort of negative impact on the TG-16's sales.

It was the Genesis that killed us.  Practically killed us outright, in fact.  That and our own, shoddy marketing (and the fact we took FOREVER to port games over from Japan, didn't secure enough 'trademark' games, like Spiderman, etc.)

So many things...

 

Had NEC made up their collective mind and released the Turbo in '88 we woulda had a chance!

The Dreamcast is 128-bit
The PS3 is also 128-bit

Dreamcast = PS3 

[VestCunt]

What? Since when didn't the SMS fit into the '8bit' generation?

Oops.  I agree that the SMS is 8-bit generation system through and through and didn't mean to say otherwise.  That said, its lifespan was remarkable and, while not particularly relevant to this topic, I find it interesting how the late-period SMS managed to port so many titles that were appearing on 16-bit platforms.  I also think that the SMS and the (early) PCE games are fairly close together on the continuum of video game evolution.

In my 3+ years at NEC, I don't ever recall us having a discussion about the Sega Master System having any sort of negative impact on the TG-16's sales.

Well, there's our answer to the OP.  Thanks malicedoom!

[CrackTiger]

I find it hard for the SMS to beat out the NES, personally.

I blame the lack of RPG presence.

Granted the SMS had a terribly small selection of RPGs, but the ones it did have were very good.

I'd say the following games hold their own against the NES equivalents.
Phantasy Star = Final Fantasy
Ultima IV = Ultima Avatar
Golden Axe Warrior < Zelda 1
Ys > Dragon Warrior
Miracle Warriors = ?

Throw in psuedo rpgs like Lord of the Sword, Golvellius, Spellcaster, Gauntlet, Kings Quest, Populous, Dragon Crystal, and Alex Kidd High-Tech and the SMS wasn't that bad.

The Ultima comparison kinda doesn't work for me since the two are radically. frigging. different.  I like them both really, but if I am going to play the PC style ones, id rather play on the PC....

anyway, yes it wasn't that bad but it had no longstanding series.  FF had 3 games, DQ had 4 games, Wizardry 1 and 2 happened, we got THREE ultima games....Scheherezade, ghost lion, and then if you count Japan there was a bunch of other stuff....


I will say Golvellius pummels Zelda though.

There weren't enough console-style RPGs though.  and it really sucked, because PS proved it could be done amazingly on the system.

Ultima IV Quest of the Avatar is the same game on SMS and NES. The main difference is that the SMS version is 16-bit quality and crushes all other versions.

As a huge RPG/questy game fan, I had more fun with SMS games than NES. FFII & III didn't make it over here, but I've played through both Famicom versions (during the 32-bit/DC generation).



As for cpu bits determining class:

Intellivision = 16-bit
PC Engine = 8-bit
PS3/360 = 64-bit
DC/PS2/GC/Xbox = 32-bit

I'm still amazed by comments on forums and youtube talking about how unbelievable(!) the PC Engine is as an (only!) 8-bit system. Those people refuse to judge by their eyes which class the PCE falls under, but the same people never apply the same anti-logic to the consoles mentioned above.

I also find it unusual that many people judge the PCE by the handful of it's lowelst quality games tech-wise, while at the same time championing the MD & SFC by their best games. They're basically siting crude PCE games as tech demos. That's like judging a console by Frog Feast.

[Joe Redifer]

Ultima IV Quest of the Avatar is the same game on SMS and NES. The main difference is that the SMS version is 16-bit quality and crushes all other versions.

I thought the SMS version was pretty low quality even for SMS standards.  Phantasy Star blows it away and I consider Phantasy Star to be 8-bit quality.

Also, are the Wii, 360 and PS3 actually 64-bit?  I thought they were 32 bit.  They use PowerPC variant processors.

[VestCunt]

I appreciate how the SMS version stayed true to the original, but I prefer the updated out NES graphics and simplifications. 

[Tatsujin]

I also think that the SMS and the (early) PCE games are fairly close together on the continuum of video game evolution.

YEah, R-Type on SMS and R-Type on PCE looked almost like twins.

[turbogrfxfan]

I dunno why people keep comparing the turbo to the sms???  Maybe the east coast was different but back in the day it was either the nes or sms..    the turbob wasnt even a factor..  for me at the time.  nintendo didnt have its snes out so it was the genny and turbo in compitetion with each other as the next generation.  imo the sms lost to nintendo and it was a decision on buying the turbo or genny.  It makes no sense for someone to think of buying a sms when the genny was in compiption w/ the turbo.

Besides the games we've talked about, the TG16 and SMS have a surprising amount in common that makes them worthy of comparison.  Unlike their competitors, they're both unusual in that they don't fit neatly into the categories of "console generations" that has been widely adopted in recent years.  Wikipedia and Gamefaqs might list them as forth- and third-generation consoles respectfully, but things aren't black and white and they co-existed for most of the same years.

Dude!

"next generation game system"        adapted in recent years?  and I dont care about what was sold in japan  This is about us sales.  and yes nec did fit in cause thats the reason why the bit was started.  Ur not making sense

Your arguments will be stronger if you take the time to communicate effectively - spell, capitalize, use punctuation, and get your remarks outside of the quote.

The history from Japan is relevant because when our early Turbografx games-to-be were first programmed on the PCE they were contemporaries of the 8-bit era.  When JJ and Jeff was made there was no Super Famicom or Mega Drive and NEC, Sega, and SNK weren't slapping the numbers "16" or "24" on their consoles anything.

A couple years later, NEC brings the PCE to the U.S.  It's not 1987 anymore: the NES is king, the SMS has just been superseded by the Genesis, and they can't just market it as a cool new console like they did in Japan (correct me if I'm wrong).  No, it has to have "16" in the name and be a "next generation" cut above the current crop because the Genesis just launched two weeks before them with "16-bit" plastered across the front.  That's fine for marketing, but the the first wave of orange-label games they're rushing over from Japan are one- or two-years-old.  Some, like Keith Courage, look truly next generation.  Others, like Vigilante and World Court Tennis, look like souped-up 8-bit games IMO.

Furthermore, four of those first-impression, orange-label games are already available on the SMS which North Americans are rapidly writing off.  

So, to summarize your points that I'm trying to address:
1)  Did the pre-existing SMS games impact the TG16?  That's up for debate.  

2)  Is the TG16 strictly a "16-bit, forth-generation" console?  In my opinion, no, it spanned the third and forth generations.

3)  Why are we comparing the SMS and TG16?  I hope I've made that painfully clear.

As for the "console generation" terminology, I'm not talking about advertising.  I'm talking about the neat little packages of "third generation", "forth generation", etc. nonsense fans have grouped consoles into on wikipedia and elsewhere.  I never heard anyone refer to these categories until five or ten years ago.

I agree with you 100%that the turbo isnt just a fourth generation system.  You would have to be crazy to say that. I know when the pce was released in japan. All Im saying is when they released it in the us they were competing with the genny.
     So, Your basicly saying they brought the turbo over here a little late and they had to compete?  Thats fine and dandy. I agree. But remember, the vast general public had no knowledge of the pce or when it was released. So therefore, People werent like for example:  "ohhh look another 8 bit system...... boy that doesnt compete with sms"  and " boy thats lame........  all it has is a bunch of sega games and old games to boot"  "Im not going to buy that when I already have a sms" "all it is is a old pce" They were looking at it as a new system. Not an old pce with a new shell on it. Especially with it having a 16 sticker slapped on it.  Therefore, To me it makes no sense to compare it to a sms from the general publics prespective back in 1989.  I think Im making this painfully clear.
We were told by the mouths of nec that it was the "next generation of gaming"  and logically to the ignorant consumer that ment it wasnt an old system and it stands up with the genny.  nothing to do with sms.  If it was marketed as an old system to compete with the sms then yes. but it wasnt.

[Mishran]

I used to own the game Rampage for the SMS and played it with a friend on his NES. After playing the superior SMS version with close to arcade graphics and all three monsters the inferior NES version burned my eyes and impaired my higher brain functions.

[Tatsujin]

lol mishran. So did your brain recover?

[Mishran]

Read my Theron Quest topic and see for yourself. I blame Rampage for my below level IQ. I even blame my below par looks on it cause it makes me feel better. Damn NES...

[sheath]

I was looking to see if anybody was selling PCE Outrun and found this instead.  I owned a Master System and NES before I got my TG16 back in 1990, I think I might have sold both of them to be able to afford actually.  I never did pick up Space Harrier or R-Type for the Turbo even though I really liked how they looked, especially R-Type.  I guess I had just played myself out of them on the Master System by then. 

At no point did I feel like I was playing an "8-Bit" system back in the day though, games like Bonks Adventure, Ninja Spirit and Legendary Axe seemed every bit as "16-Bit" to me as the Genesis games I was playing from 1989-90.  The increasing emphasis on CD-ROM games after 1990 is what slowly killed my interest in Turbo gaming and resulted in me selling the system and what handful of games I had bought in late 1992.  I just couldn't afford the CD unit back then.  I'm glad my DUO/R gives me access to all of these great games today though.

[VestCunt]

At no point did I feel like I was playing an "8-Bit" system back in the day though, games like Bonks Adventure, Ninja Spirit and Legendary Axe seemed every bit as "16-Bit" to me as the Genesis games I was playing from 1989-90.  

Definitely.  The problem is people's memories become rusty and they think "16-bit = Super Mario Kart/Sonic", forgetting that the generation started several years before those games.  Then they compare 1989 TG16 titles to 1992 NES games and 1993 SNES games and say they look 8-bit.

The increasing emphasis on CD-ROM games after 1990 is what slowly killed my interest in Turbo gaming and resulted in me selling the system and what handful of games I had bought in late 1992.  I just couldn't afford the CD unit back then.  

Ditto.  It really sucked saving paper-route money for three months to buy a $99 TG16 only realize all of the games I wanted to play (Ys, Cosmic Fantasy, etc), were on the $350 CD player.

[thrush]

The problem is people's memories become rusty and they think "16-bit = Super Mario Kart/Sonic", forgetting that the generation started several years before those games.  Then they compare 1989 TG16 titles to 1992 NES games and 1993 SNES games and say they look 8-bit.

I could not agree more!  I think, too, as time goes by people begin to lump games together in a vague "era", forgetting how much changed between 89 and 92, or even between 89 and 90.

[turbogrfxfan]

[turbogrfxfan]