SCART: is it worth the investment?

GAUGE · 02/27/2011, 11:21 AM

I'm asking a related question in the modding forum, but thought I'd ask folks about their personal experiences with SCART here.

I'm thinking about getting a SCART-modded PC Engine or CD-ROM2 system. Is the upgrade in video quality worth the cash? Do you have a SCART system? If so, how do you have it set up/connecting to your TV? Drawbacks and pluses of having a SCART system? Is it better to have a SCART PC Engine system or better to SCART-mod a CD-ROM2?

Any help, advice, ramblings, etc., would be helpful!

Arkhan Asylum · 02/27/2011, 11:41 AM

no, just RGB mod it for something US friendly.

SignOfZeta · 02/27/2011, 11:53 AM

What RGB capable displays do you have? If you live in the US the answer to that question is %99.9999 of the time, "none" so you'd need to drop a few hundred on a XRGB or something like that as well.

IMO, its absolutely worth it, but I'm a picky customer.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/27/2011, 11:59 AM

are we talking about modding it for the big SCART connector here?

Cause nothing in US of Gay has that .

Joe Redifer · 02/27/2011, 12:51 PM

That's why you take that SCART and convert it to something else, like component video. I know, I know, component video is absolute trash compared to RGB.

GAUGE · 02/27/2011, 01:21 PM

I'd be converting it to component via a converter. Isn't the quality better than composite? What are other options for better quality that are possible with an NTSC HDTV?

Thanks for all the info so far. I'm just trying to figure out the best price/performance option for getting a better picture.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/27/2011, 03:26 PM

Cant you just RGB mod it and go straight to an RGB connector we support in MERICA?

I donno what im talking about. I use RF and composite

Duo_R · 02/27/2011, 03:27 PM

Don't forget u will need to amp the RGB

SuperDeadite · 02/27/2011, 10:18 PM

RGB is totally worth it for the PCE. But don't use SCART. SCART=crappy Euro trash, use something
better.

ccovell · 02/27/2011, 11:02 PM

I have an RGB page here that you might be interested in: https://www.chrismcovell.com/gotRGB/index.html

Be sure to check out the screenshots and screengrabs.

SignOfZeta · 02/27/2011, 11:57 PM

Wow, this is a confusing thread for noobs, big time.

First to clarify some things: SCART is not a signal type, its just a form factor for the connector, SCART connectors can accommodate RGB, composite, component, s-video, RF, mono audio, stereo audio, +5V, and probably some other stuff as well from time to time. When people talk about getting RGB from a PCE it is often convenient for people in Europe to have it packaged into the SCART connector, but that's because their TVs have SCART sockets on them. American TVs don't. There is no point in going to SCART cables specifically unless you have something to plug it into.

In the US the vast majority of RGB capable displays are either inconvenient arcade monitors with no housings, or ancient 13" computer monitors from the 80s. Even then, they never have SCART sockets on them.

Secondly: if by "HDTV" you mean an LCD or plasma, you need a lot more than an RGB signal. SD game systems look like SHIT on these displays no matter what signal type you are using. A box like an XRGB, Edge, or other things is pretty much required unless you are blind or under the age of 20 (thereby, often times, not actually knowing what a good SD signal even looks like). You can convert the RGB to component, but it still going to be shit and quite possibly laggy.

So, figure $300 on this upgrade, if not more.

SignOfZeta · 02/28/2011, 12:03 AM

Quote from: guest on 02/27/2011, 03:26 PMCant you just RGB mod it and go straight to an RGB connector we support in MERICA?

Like what?

SuperDeadite · 02/28/2011, 01:19 AM

Actually quite a few USA HDTV's will take 15khz RGB through the VGA port. Not all, but
quite a few will, you just have try it and you might get lucky. Of course the TV can't display
it in true 15khz. But the scaling will be much better then if you're using S-vid or composite.

GAUGE · 02/28/2011, 10:50 AM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 02/27/2011, 11:57 PMWow, this is a confusing thread for noobs, big time.

First to clarify some things: SCART is not a signal type, its just a form factor for the connector, SCART connectors can accommodate RGB, composite, component, s-video, RF, mono audio, stereo audio, +5V, and probably some other stuff as well from time to time. When people talk about getting RGB from a PCE it is often convenient for people in Europe to have it packaged into the SCART connector, but that's because their TVs have SCART sockets on them. American TVs don't. There is no point in going to SCART cables specifically unless you have something to plug it into.

In the US the vast majority of RGB capable displays are either inconvenient arcade monitors with no housings, or ancient 13" computer monitors from the 80s. Even then, they never have SCART sockets on them.

Secondly: if by "HDTV" you mean an LCD or plasma, you need a lot more than an RGB signal. SD game systems look like SHIT on these displays no matter what signal type you are using. A box like an XRGB, Edge, or other things is pretty much required unless you are blind or under the age of 20 (thereby, often times, not actually knowing what a good SD signal even looks like). You can convert the RGB to component, but it still going to be shit and quite possibly laggy.

So, figure $300 on this upgrade, if not more.

Hey thanks everyone for all the info. Exactly what I needed. Just wasn't sure what I was getting myself into. I guess what my most probable set up would be to just have a SCART modded PCE going to a SCART -> component converter and into the HDTV. Is it worth the cost/hassle to upgrade from composite?

Tatsujin · 02/28/2011, 10:57 AM

Quote from: SuperDeadite on 02/27/2011, 10:18 PMRGB is totally worth it for the PCE. But don't use SCART. SCART=crappy Euro trash, use something
better.

Why is scart = crappy euro trash? And what is something better? It's RGB, there isn't good or bad RGB (sure it depends on the quality of the TV and used parts and everything, but that has nothing to do with scart itself, that's just a connector norm).

And at least we had a shit load of fully RGB capable TVs since mid 80s. And what did you guys had?

Joe Redifer · 02/28/2011, 11:08 AM

SCART works for me. It's just a connector type. The way I do it with my systems is to transcode the RGB into component video which looks pretty close if you have a good TV. Not all TVs are created equal, but that's another story. I have SCART cables for my Genesis (model2 cable even though I have a model 1 so I can connect it to my 32X), Neo-Geo, SNES, Saturn and TurboGrafx-16 CD-ROM. This way I only need one type of connector since the unit I have that transcodes to component accepts SCART. It is very convenient for me.

SignOfZeta · 02/28/2011, 11:16 AM

Quote from: Tatsujin on 02/28/2011, 10:57 AMAnd what is something better? It's RGB, there isn't good or bad RGB (sure it depends on the quality of the TV and used parts and everything, but that has nothing to do with scart itself, that's just a connector norm).

I don't know what he was getting at, but the SCART sockets themselves are kind of garbage. They don't have any sort of detent so they never really feel like they are in all the way. Also, having all that stuff in one cable creates all sorts of interference issues if the cable isn't well made (most of the ones on eBay aren't).

However, all of this is outweighed by the convenience of SCART, which is just amazing. IMO "crappy" is needing five damn RCA connectors just for component and sound. Its fucking ridiculous.

GAUGE · 02/28/2011, 11:23 AM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/28/2011, 11:08 AMSCART works for me. It's just a connector type. The way I do it with my systems is to transcode the RGB into component video which looks pretty close if you have a good TV. Not all TVs are created equal, but that's another story. I have SCART cables for my Genesis (model2 cable even though I have a model 1 so I can connect it to my 32X), Neo-Geo, SNES, Saturn and TurboGrafx-16 CD-ROM. This way I only need one type of connector since the unit I have that transcodes to component accepts SCART. It is very convenient for me.

Hey Joe, it sounds like you have the sort of set up that I'm looking at, SCART converted to component. Do you find the signal quality much improved over composite? I know this might seem obvious, but I have zero experience with how SCART to component converters handle the display signal and/or if it retains a high level of quality.

SuperDeadite · 02/28/2011, 01:30 PM

It's the connector that I don't like. The angled cable, sound intereference, it just feels cheap to me.
Sure it's a lot more plugs but BNC all the way when I can. With XRGBs I use JP21 I'll admit, at least the JP version
uses the bare minimum of wires so you can add extra shielding wrap in there without breaking anything.
Depends on the cable, but for example an official NeoGeo RGB cable looks way worse then XNeo-1's S-video
because of the sound interference it gets...

Tatsujin · 02/28/2011, 08:36 PM

Yeah, I agree on the connector/cable issue from a todays point of view. But still it was a very good standard back in the 80s early 90s where other countries almost had shit outputs only.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/28/2011, 10:31 PM

Quote from: SignOfZeta on 02/28/2011, 12:03 AM
Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 02/27/2011, 03:26 PMCant you just RGB mod it and go straight to an RGB connector we support in MERICA?
Like what?

Commodore 1084S!

Duh.

my Philips RGB monitor has a slot for SCART, because the European model of the same monitor has DINs AND SCART.

SCART rules and im sad we didnt get it. That connector is awesome.

Tatsujin · 02/28/2011, 10:53 PM

Since I was about 15, RGB was an indispensable must for me. PCE, MD, SFC, SMS, Amiga, PSx, Saturn, PS2, DC and even my MSX was running via RGB (everything scart). Only the little NES/FC stinker was AV all the time.

Now am stuck back again to S-Vid

Joe Redifer · 02/28/2011, 11:02 PM

Yes, component is much better than composite. As for the sound issue, you needn't route the sound through the SCART. Just take the sound from the back of the TurboGrafx-16 CD-ROM Interface Unit and send it straight to the high-powered stereo receiver with floor-standing speakers that are as tall as you (at least).

Quote from: ZetaIMO "crappy" is needing five damn RCA connectors just for component and sound. Its fucking ridiculous.

Why? It's not like you must constantly plug and unplug them. Once they are plugged in, you're good to go. If your life is so hectic that you can't be bothered to spend a few extra seconds plugging in some cables, then perhaps it's time to give videogames up altogether.

Arkhan Asylum · 02/28/2011, 11:27 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 02/28/2011, 11:02 PMYes, component is much better than composite. As for the sound issue, you needn't route the sound through the SCART. Just take the sound from the back of the TurboGrafx-16 CD-ROM Interface Unit and send it straight to the high-powered stereo receiver with floor-standing speakers that are as tall as you (at least).

Quote from: ZetaIMO "crappy" is needing five damn RCA connectors just for component and sound. Its fucking ridiculous.
Why? It's not like you must constantly plug and unplug them. Once they are plugged in, you're good to go. If your life is so hectic that you can't be bothered to spend a few extra seconds plugging in some cables, then perhaps it's time to give videogames up altogether.

When you have one component input on your massive ass CRT, and 2+ systems using said component inputs, this becomes a fucking chore.

Climbing around back isnt "a few extra seconds"

Its more like a few minutes, swearing, hoping you dont knock shit over, fumbling around with cords hoping you did it right, more swearing, dropping stuff, more swearing, praying the TV doesnt fall, realizing you just plugged the green and blue in the wrong holes because its dark back there, swearing, finally connecting it all, and then finally playing the fucker.

Yeah you could get a switch box, but that shit will look awful. 15 RCA doodads shoved into a box, with cables running out the back into your TV!? Yikes. There goes your stuff looking tidy.

Joe Redifer · 03/01/2011, 03:04 AM

Why would a switchbox look untidy? If it does, you are doing it wrong. But if that is more important to you than good video, then perhaps you really don't care much about it in the first place.

And also, Zeta complained because component had too many god damned wires and they angered and confused him (two red wires... which is which, blue and green can be mistaken for the other and they take hours to install, etc). Even if it was all bunched up into one wire, say a VGA connector, you still only have one jack for that on the back of your TV and changing it will still be a pain.

Arkhan Asylum · 03/01/2011, 06:41 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/01/2011, 03:04 AMWhy would a switchbox look untidy? If it does, you are doing it wrong. But if that is more important to you than good video, then perhaps you really don't care much about it in the first place.

So a person can't care about good video and having a tidy setup?

switch boxes are bulky and can get in the way. especially when you have 15ish wires jammed in them.

Zeta never said anything about being confused by the wires.

and, Id love to see a VGA port that accepts audio as well as video!

Joe Redifer · 03/01/2011, 08:45 PM

I mention the VGA because no matter what you are kind of screwed when it comes to wires. You'll always have three. Component only adds two more. Zeta called me at my house and told me he was confused.

What are switch boxes getting in the way of? A switchbox can be very tidy unless you are hanging out behind your TV. And even that can be tidy. Ever hear of cable ties? They are super-cheap and easy to use. I have my speaker wires cable tied so that there aren't 8 wires laying randomly on my floor. Looks fine.

nat · 03/01/2011, 08:53 PM

Quote from: Joe Redifer on 03/01/2011, 08:45 PMA switchbox can be very tidy unless you are hanging out behind your TV.

This is where I've been going wrong all these years.

Arkhan Asylum · 03/01/2011, 09:11 PM

cable ties are terrorist activity.

If you want to move something you have a bunch of crap all pressed together.

my point here is...

lets say you have 5 systems all with component.

Enjoy your 25 cables!

Now, 5 systems with SCART.

Enjoy your 5 cables!

See? Whats nicer.

Joe Redifer · 03/02/2011, 04:58 AM

I have SCART that transcodes to component. I never change my component cables.

And they are both just as "nice" if none of them are seen no matter which setup you have. ;)

CrackTiger · 03/02/2011, 08:02 AM

I bought an RGB modded Duo off of eBay (from doujindance?) plus a component transcoder and an hdmi converter and neither work with the Duo or my consolized MVS system.

The thing is, both converters work with my unmodded Genesis systems and Neo Geo AES. I think that with the Neo Geo in component, there was an occasion distortion at the corner of the screen.

So be prepared to possibly run into my problem GUAGE. I'm not sure what to do now, since it was hard enough finding a scart to component transcoder at the time.

NecroPhile · 03/02/2011, 01:23 PM

Quote from: Psycho Arkhan on 02/28/2011, 11:27 PMThere goes your stuff looking tidy.

Tidy? I saw the pic of your desk....

Duo_R · 03/02/2011, 10:20 PM

Weird my doujindancergb modded Duo-r worked perfectly with my component converter box. Which cable did you use?

Quote from: guest on 03/02/2011, 08:02 AMI bought an RGB modded Duo off of eBay (from doujindance?) plus a component transcoder and an hdmi converter and neither work with the Duo or my consolized MVS system.

The thing is, both converters work with my unmodded Genesis systems and Neo Geo AES. I think that with the Neo Geo in component, there was an occasion distortion at the corner of the screen.

So be prepared to possibly run into my problem GUAGE. I'm not sure what to do now, since it was hard enough finding a scart to component transcoder at the time.

Duo_R · 03/02/2011, 10:24 PM

I have a component switching box, you don't see the wires since it is hidden in the TV stand. So if it looks untidy = setup fail.