TurboGrafx - Doomed to Inflation?

[VestCunt]

Writing on the wall
1)  Unlike the 3DO and Jaguar, the overall quality of the TG16 library is pretty good.
2)  The mysterious underdog factor:  I imagine it would be a fun console to go back and "discover" if you missed out in the Nineties.  Unlike its competitors, the TG16 wasn't sold in most mainstream stores.  K-Mart, Target, Best Buy, Kay-Bee Toys, and Funcoland didn't carry it.  In Minnesota you had to go to Toy R' Us, Children's Palace, Software Etc, or Electronics Boutique.   
3)  TG16 games had comparatively low print runs.
4)  Attractive media – hucards are cute, CD's are cool.
5)  Games are more valuable to collectors than worthless SMS games, but not yet out-of-sight like Neo Geo carts.

Are we screwed?  Alexduo's report of the guy with 6-8 copies of MC is worrisome (https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=7700.msg163794#msg163794)
The comic and baseball card markets crashed in the Eighties/Nineties, but that was well after their heyday of collectability and the old stuff has never really lost value.  Same thing with Magic cards – modern ones aren't worth anything but the early ones are.  Of course, the TG16 was the first CD system....

[SignOfZeta]

TG-16 is expensive, but PC Engine is cheap. If you insist on collecting TG-16, you are screwed, but you are only screwing yourself when nearly all games on TG-16 exist on PCE for (usually) cheaper prices and are (usually) better releases.

The same is true for the Neo. MVS is quite affordable. Of you MUST have AES versions, well, that's your fucking problem.

[Liquid Snake]

Three main reasons I love to collect JPN version are:
- game selection is larger than US (a lot of games did not port over to US)
- better cover arts and no censorship/localization
- price is much cheaper than US (exclude shumps & some rare titles)

[turbokon]

What about systems? Are pce systems generally cheaper then turbo's?

[Sparky]

TG-16 is expensive, but PC Engine is cheap. If you insist on collecting TG-16, you are screwed, but you are only screwing yourself when nearly all games on TG-16 exist on PCE for (usually) cheaper prices and are (usually) better releases. 

I dont care if the PCE shoots rainbows out its white f@cking huey slot, it is not my black TG16, the system i wanted way back when i was a kid, so now i have and have spent very little cash on it.

Let up a bit would ya zeta on tg16 hate.... geeeeez

[DragonmasterDan]

Writing on the wall
1)  Unlike the 3DO and Jaguar, the overall quality of the TG16 library is pretty good.
2)  The mysterious underdog factor:  I imagine it would be a fun console to go back and "discover" if you missed out in the Nineties.  Unlike its competitors, the TG16 wasn't sold in most mainstream stores.  K-Mart, Target, Best Buy, Kay-Bee Toys, and Funcoland didn't carry it.  In Minnesota you had to go to Toy R' Us, Children's Palace, Software Etc, or Electronics Boutique.   

I bought TG16 stuff at Target.

[VestCunt]

I bought TG16 stuff at Target.

Cool.  What State?

[DragonmasterDan]

Cool.  What State?

Missouri

Added in edit: And I'm reasonably certain Best Buy carried TG16 stuff as well. I don't specifically have any memories of buying any TG16 stuff at one though. Also Kay bee Toys DEFINITELY did carry it. I have a Kay bee ad in an old comic book from the early 90s with an ad featuring Bonk.

[TurboXray]

PlayWorld (that place was huge. Bigger than Toys R Us) and "Best" (if you remember that store) also carried TG16.

[spenoza]

Toys R Us carried Turbo stuff, and so did both Electronics Boutique (back when their mascot was a dog called ElBo) and some other computer equipment/software store that competed with EB (can't remember the name). Of course, I didn't buy the system until the price had dropped to $99, but I bought it shortly after that price drop. Those three stores meant you could price compare between stores any time you went to a mall area.

[DragonmasterDan]

Toys R Us carried Turbo stuff, and so did both Electronics Boutique (back when their mascot was a dog called ElBo) and some other computer equipment/software store that competed with EB (can't remember the name). Of course, I didn't buy the system until the price had dropped to $99, but I bought it shortly after that price drop. Those three stores meant you could price compare between stores any time you went to a mall area.

The other store was probably Software Etc or Babbages.

[esteban]

Another factor is the age cohort of the "collectors" and video game enthusiasts: a lot of folks collect based on what they grew up with as a child.

As the age cohort gets older, average salary increases, amount of free time decreases, etc. All of these factors increase the likelihood that a premium (inflated) price will be paid for items, if only because of the convenience.

Of course, I hope I am wrong.

[Liquid Snake]

Other chain stores (besides Babbages & Software Etc) also carried Turbografix in the ninties:
- Service Merchandise
- Best (not bestbuy)
- Sears
- Radio Shack

I've never seen Turbo game at target.

[Obfuscate]

Writing on the wall
 In Minnesota you had to go to Toy R’ Us, Children’s Palace, Software Etc, or Electronics Boutique.   

I spent many a days at the Toys R Us next to Northtown mall back in the day looking/buying all my turbo stuff.

[JoshTurboTrollX]

I got probably 80 games or more in 1994-1995 from a store in Wausau WI called RSC Video Game Star and a movie rental place in my home town (in the same area)  In 1994 they started to clear out their TG-16 library, around 20-30 games (ish) and I bought literally all of them.  Usually for 3 for $10.  The same went for VGS.  The sold me my Duo and 12 games for $300!! 

I never saw tg-16 in actual department stores, then again I rarely got out of my town at that age to go game shopping.  :C  We only had a Wal-Mart and a Pamida...... 

Must have been cool to see the TG-16 sitting next to the Genesis and SNES/NES at Toys R Us and other stores back in the day.

[DragonmasterDan]

Other chain stores (besides Babbages & Software Etc) also carried Turbografix in the ninties:
- Service Merchandise
- Best (not bestbuy)
- Sears
- Radio Shack

I've never seen Turbo game at target.

I got JJ & Jeff at Target in 1991. I'm going to guess that by the TTI era Target like a lot of other stores stopped carrying TG stuff.

[NecroPhile]

90% of the US library is worth less than the original MSRP, especially if you factor in inflation (a $40 game in 1990 would be about $65 today), so where's the doom?  Besides, of the 15 or so games that hit $100+, only a couple of 'em are better than the PCE version; just get the PCE version or ignore the game altogether and play a better game.

[incrediblehark]

I had never seen any TG games or systems in any stores at all where I live (Maine) but back in the day we didn't have target or best buy either until a couple of years ago. we had Ames, Service Merchandise, Kay-Bee toys, Sears and eventually Wal-mart, then the other stores closed down, except sears. If there were any Turbo stuff in stores, I never got to see it That being said I did know one kid who had a TG-16 that I would go over to his house to play Bloody Wolf and Devil's Crush, and I thought those games were pretty awesome compared to the nes at the time, he even let me borrow it once, which was cool. I had been into the TG ever since. But even he got his system in florida before moving up here.

[CrackTiger]

Turbo stuff is extremely cheap. The hardware isn't even that bad on eBay if you actually use judgement and patience. There are expensive games for other consoles from the same time and there are at least as many PCE games that cost as much as or more than the more expensive Turbo titles. The kind of inflation that is happenijg with the Turbo is also hapoening with the PCE. Up until recent years Sylphia was common and sold for $30 - $40. I personally sold a few copies for as much. It was only after a oerception of the game came into play by people who arecmore collectors than players that things got out of control. But who cares if 90% of both libraries ate unaffected? At least we live in the day and age when you can download and burn a CD for free to actually play it if you don't want to give in to collectible prices.

[VestCunt]

Another factor is the age cohort of the "collectors" and video game enthusiasts: a lot of folks collect based on what they grew up with as a child.

I think this is important.  I'd be curious to know how many Turbo gamers and collectors grew up looking at the system and how many are younger converts.  Retro consoles are getting a fair amount of exposure from the Virtual Console, AVGN, and other youtubers.  It would be nice to have an "introduce yourself" sticky around here.

Must have been cool to see the TG-16 sitting next to the Genesis and SNES/NES at Toys R Us and other stores back in the day.

I spent many a days at the Toys R Us next to Northtown mall back in the day looking/buying all my turbo stuff.

Funny, I was just at the Northtown mall last week.    
I did my Turbo shopping at the Toys R' Us in Burnsville.  My parents rarely took us to toy stores, but they would occasionally stop at the nearby Barnes and Noble and browse for 1-2 hours.  This gave me a chance to run down the parking lot and look at video games.  The Turbo section was down at the end of an aisle, near the Lynx, Virtual Boy, and other systems no one cared about.  It was about 1/4 the size of the Genesis and Super NES areas...consisting of about 70 box cards hanging on the wall and a kiosk with Air Zonk in the Fall of 1992.  Most games were $30-60, but there were always some on clearance for $10-20 (Deep Blue, World Class Tennis, Parasol Stars were $10 buys, I remember drooling over Ys III at $60).  The consoles were all in the next aisle over behind glass.  The TurboBoosters, Taps, Sticks, and other accessories were the only items a customer could physically pick up and walk to the check-out.  Strangely, they were located fifty feet away from the games, over with the Genesis accessories on the dusty, bottom rack in really beat-up, ratty boxes.  I couldn't afford $40 for a Tap and a second Pad and it was torture to see the same accessories sit there, untouched, for over a year.

Other chain stores (besides Babbages & Software Etc) also carried Turbografix in the ninties:
- Service Merchandise
- Best (not bestbuy)
- Sears
- Radio Shack
I've never seen Turbo game at target.

I purchased the original NES Ninja Turtles at Best, but never ended up going there again.  Did your Radio Shack have games on the shelf?  Mine didn't, but I bought a lot from their in-store ordering books in '97-98 - the last brick-and-mortar seller of new Turbo games!

[TurboXray]

Oh, I forgot about Montgomery Wards. They carried TG16 stuff. I got Bonk's Revenge from there. We didn't have EB here at the time, but we had Babbages and Software Etc. Babbages hot quite a bit of TG16/CD stuff. And when the Duo came out, they ran the VHS promo tape at the from entrance of the store for a long time.

[VestCunt]

90% of the US library is worth less than the original MSRP, especially if you factor in inflation (a $40 game in 1990 would be about $65 today), so where's the doom?  Besides, of the 15 or so games that hit $100+, only a couple of 'em are better than the PCE version

I agree we're not facing an apocalypse.  What concerns me is how fast the expected ebay prices are going up for those 12-15 games.  roy bought 2 copies of MC for $200/each (outside of ebay) about two years ago and since then ebay prices have skyrocketed.  Beyond Shadowgate and some other items have recently gone nuts as well.
I started the thread because a number of members have said things about how they're "waiting for prices to down" or the retro trend to die and I'm wondering if this is actually a realistic expectation and if anybody has insight into how this kind of trend might play out on the TG16.  

[NecroPhile]

I started the thread because a number of members have said things about how they're "waiting for prices to down" or the retro trend to die and I'm wondering if this is actually a realistic expectation and if anybody has insight into how this kind of trend might play out on the TG16. 

Well just let me check my crystal ball....

[CrackTiger]

If anything, the speed at which select games are skyrocketing in price based purely on collecting is a good sign that the market will eventually crash and straight collectors will move on to other thibgs once the fad dies. It's just like other trendy collector markets that began to overvalue items based purely on speculation. When the bubble bursts, things usually bottom out instead of maitaining the peak. People won't pay $20000 for Magical Chase and even if they do, then they won't pay $100000 or whatever the ceiling is.

The thing to keep in mind is that the TG-16 is a very niche brand within video game playing and collecting. It has nowhere near the overall interest in either, that something like the NES has. The disproportionate prices of uncommon Turbo games compared to collectible  games for genuinely popular consoles is alone proof that the handful of pricey Turbo games are majorly overvalued and cannot be sustained.

[hoobs88]

Other chain stores (besides Babbages & Software Etc) also carried Turbografix in the ninties:
- Service Merchandise
- Best (not bestbuy)
- Sears
- Radio Shack

I've never seen Turbo game at target.

I got JJ & Jeff at Target in 1991. I'm going to guess that by the TTI era Target like a lot of other stores stopped carrying TG stuff.

I never even heard of Target until 1998 when a kid that I met from Texas was asking me how we pronounced it in my area (they pronounced it with a French accent to make it sound classier). A few months later, a Target store was constructed at my local Mall.

[DragonmasterDan]

Other chain stores (besides Babbages & Software Etc) also carried Turbografix in the ninties:
- Service Merchandise
- Best (not bestbuy)
- Sears
- Radio Shack

I've never seen Turbo game at target.

I got JJ & Jeff at Target in 1991. I'm going to guess that by the TTI era Target like a lot of other stores stopped carrying TG stuff.

I never even heard of Target until 1998 when a kid that I met from Texas was asking me how we pronounced it in my area (they pronounced it with a French accent to make it sound classier). A few months later, a Target store was constructed at my local Mall.

I've lived in Chicagoland since the late 1980s but my father and other family live in Saint Louis.

Chicago didn't get Targets until the mid 90s, but going back to the early 80s they existed in the Saint Louis area and my dad took me to one which resulted in the JJ and Jeff Purchase in 1991.

[Arkhan Asylum]

Asking if its doomed to inflation is the same as asking if the average american is doomed to be an ignorant tool.

The answer is yes, and the two are related.

[Mathius]

The only two places I remember carrying the Turbo here in Indy (other than Toys R Us) were Electronics Boutique, and Walden's Software. The latter was an awesome place to go and drool. They even had Amigas hooked up to play. I remember playing the game based on the movie Arachnophobia. The graphics were so awesome!

[turbokon]

We bought ours from Montgomery Wards in 1991 and the only other places that carry turbo products were Toy'r us and EB.

Honestly I don't see or know how prices are much different between the two in terms of games.  Most turbo games I brought from ebay are averaged to be $15 to $25.  I have only brought a few PCE games, the cheapest being $10 for final soldier and I paid $15 to $25 for the rest.  Systems wise though I think its a different story.  I usually do my shopping from ebay.  From what I've seen lately, you can pick up a turbo grafx 16 system for cheaper then a PCE.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Duo_R]

Anyone remember TGG (The Good Guys)? They also carried turbo stuff. I got some games on clearance there when the system was end of life. There and Toys R Us are the only places I found Turbo Games new in the bay area.

[Marll]

I dont care if the PCE shoots rainbows out its white f@cking huey slot, it is not my black TG16, the system i wanted way back when i was a kid, so now i have and have spent very little cash on it.

Let up a bit would ya zeta on tg16 hate.... geeeeez

I agree with this. I have a few PCE games and I like them, but there is something to be said for collecting the US stuff. I've got 72 US games now and 9 Japanese games. There are still a few more PCE only games that I'd love to get, but of course those always seem to be the pricey ones.

I've been collecting and playing the TG16 since 1989, so I've been patient with my collection and am generally willing to wait out prices until I find a good one. I may never complete my collection because of Magical Chase (unless somehow I find it out in the wild), and I'm unwilling to pay $200+ for some of the other titles that are over priced right now, but eventually I'm sure I'll get pretty close.


Also as a side note, I know that my parents got me both my TG16 and the CDROM the next year from Fred Meyer in WA.

[blueraven]

Final Answer: No.

[nat]

I dont care if the PCE shoots rainbows out its white f@cking huey slot, it is not my black TG16, the system i wanted way back when i was a kid, so now i have and have spent very little cash on it.

Let up a bit would ya zeta on tg16 hate.... geeeeez

I agree with this. I have a few PCE games and I like them, but there is something to be said for collecting the US stuff. I've got 72 US games now and 9 Japanese games. There are still a few more PCE only games that I'd love to get, but of course those always seem to be the pricey ones.

I've been collecting and playing the TG16 since 1989, so I've been patient with my collection and am generally willing to wait out prices until I find a good one. I may never complete my collection because of Magical Chase (unless somehow I find it out in the wild), and I'm unwilling to pay $200+ for some of the other titles that are over priced right now, but eventually I'm sure I'll get pretty close.


Also as a side note, I know that my parents got me both my TG16 and the CDROM the next year from Fred Meyer in WA.

Where in WA? Maybe you lived in my neighborhood.

[Marll]

I lived up in Marysville, north of Everett at the time...and oddly, after being in the military, living in Germany and then Arizona, I'm back in Marysville LOL.

[nat]

I'm in Lake Stevens. You're probably no more than 15 minutes from me.

[Mathius]

I'm in Lake Stevens. You're probably no more than 15 minutes from me.

It's a small PCE World.

[esteban]

Anyone remember TGG (The Good Guys)? They also carried turbo stuff. I got some games on clearance there when the system was end of life. There and Toys R Us are the only places I found Turbo Games new in the bay area.

Was that a later incarnation of "Sam Goody"? Probably not, but I do remember The Good Guys.

Regardless, I never saw TG-16 stuff at Sam Goody or The Good Guys

[DragonmasterDan]

Anyone remember TGG (The Good Guys)? They also carried turbo stuff. I got some games on clearance there when the system was end of life. There and Toys R Us are the only places I found Turbo Games new in the bay area.

Was that a later incarnation of "Sam Goody"? Probably not, but I do remember The Good Guys.

Regardless, I never saw TG-16 stuff at Sam Goody or The Good Guys

Sam goody eventually turned into FYE. It, MusicLand, Suncoast, all became one chain.

There was also Tower Records which was another competitor of there's who sold overpriced movies, music and games.

[rag-time4]

I'm in Lake Stevens. You're probably no more than 15 minutes from me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this sounds an awful lot like an invitation for a jj and jeff score challenge get together!!!

[csgx1]

Anyone remember TGG (The Good Guys)? They also carried turbo stuff. I got some games on clearance there when the system was end of life. There and Toys R Us are the only places I found Turbo Games new in the bay area.

Yeah, me too, I bought a few Turbo items at The Good Guys when they had Turbo stuff on clearance...Bought a Turbo Booster Plus for $9.99 and Bonks Adventure, TV sport football for $2.99 each.  I remember they didn't even have the Turbo stuff on display.  They were just thrown in a box behind the counter and I had to ask about the stuff. 

[Duo_R]

I remember that too maybe that is why no one knew they had Turbo stuff but we scored on some clearance deals.

Anyone remember TGG (The Good Guys)? They also carried turbo stuff. I got some games on clearance there when the system was end of life. There and Toys R Us are the only places I found Turbo Games new in the bay area.

Yeah, me too, I bought a few Turbo items at The Good Guys when they had Turbo stuff on clearance...Bought a Turbo Booster Plus for $9.99 and Bonks Adventure, TV sport football for $2.99 each.  I remember they didn't even have the Turbo stuff on display.  They were just thrown in a box behind the counter and I had to ask about the stuff. 

[Dusk85Z28]

Hi, all first time poster...

I am from rochester NY, i don't believe many stores around here carried turbo stuff other than toys r us, my first turbo system was bought 5 yrs ago by an x toys r us manager, it is relatively hard to find any turbo grafx stuff out here in the wild...

[TheClash603]

Hi, all first time poster...

I am from rochester NY, i don't believe many stores around here carried turbo stuff other than toys r us, my first turbo system was bought 5 yrs ago by an x toys r us manager, it is relatively hard to find any turbo grafx stuff out here in the wild...

Welcome Dusk, I'm an hour away from you in Buffalo, NY.

If you are a Sabres fan, I hope you stay a while, and we'll get along just fine.   If not...

[ddd1234]

I wanna get this system....but i can't afford it. 

So i am stuck with roms and isos. 

[RR1980]

I wanna get this system....but i can't afford it. 

So i am stuck with roms and isos. 

check back on the for sale threads here sometimes members here offer good deals on spare systems they might have. Bluebmw even does free giveaways every so often! 

[SignOfZeta]

TG-16 is expensive, but PC Engine is cheap. If you insist on collecting TG-16, you are screwed, but you are only screwing yourself when nearly all games on TG-16 exist on PCE for (usually) cheaper prices and are (usually) better releases. 

I dont care if the PCE shoots rainbows out its white f@cking huey slot, it is not my black TG16, the system i wanted way back when i was a kid, so now i have and have spent very little cash on it.

Let up a bit would ya zeta on tg16 hate.... geeeeez

I'm not "hating" on the system, I'm just being practical. There are literally hundreds of very affordable TG-16/PCE games out there. The system has this reputation for being expensive, and but aside from the initial cost of a working CD system (which is still much cheaper than a current gen system, but many times the price of SNES/MD) it really isn't pricy at all. Most games, either region, are $5-15.

Now if you *must* have a complete US collection, or if you *must* have Renny Blaster, or you *must* have those stupid-ass spine cards and useless cardboard boxes...well...then its expensive, but at that point its your own damned fault. I'd say the same thing to people complaining that Cadillac's are too expensive; Buy something cheaper, Cadillac's are shit anyway.

People wondering "How am I ever going to afford a complete Darkwing Duck!?" need to reexamine why they are buying these games in the first place. Darkwing Duck is a piece of shit. I wouldn't keep it in my house at any price because its crap and I don't collect crap.

Inflation is fucking the collector, but not so much the player.

As for childhood nostalgia: I was born in '73, so I didn't have the Sears Wishbook dreams and such for the Turbo like a lot of you guys. Regardless, back in the day I lusted after the US Duo too. I eventually bought one (in 1992). These days I'm an adult with reasoning skills and, if I do say so myself, excellent taste. Therefore when the value of JP systems became reasonable and the US systems never did, I sold my US system to someone here on the forum because the JP shit is just plain better. Its also, inexplicably, much cheaper. Bonus for the frugal and the discerning! Bad news for nostalgic types.

Tonight I was listening to The Eagles Greatest Hits (the 180g re-issue) which my girlfriend bought earlier in the day. This was a record I loved as a kid, but now...I don't care so much for it anymore. I don't care if I ever hear it again. There is plenty of good stuff from my childhood I can focus on, there is no need to latch onto the garbage just because I liked it when I was seven. I liked SPAM when I was seven too, but I'm never touching the stuff again as long as I live.

[Mathius]

I don't collect games, I play and enjoy them like the majority of my friends here do. There is enough room in my heart (and wallet) for both the Turbo and PC Engine.

[Marll]

I'm in Lake Stevens. You're probably no more than 15 minutes from me.

Ah, small world! I have a friend that lived up there forever too. Sold all his turbo stuff years ago to a place in Marysville for like $100. I could have killed him when I found out, especially since one of the games was Beyond Shadowgate. It was a Duo and like 9-10 games and controllers, tap, etc.

[nat]

That place isn't still around, is it?

Only places I know of anymore that carry Turbo or PCE stuff are all downtown.

I can't say I blame your friend though, I pulled a similar move about ten years ago when I was essentially living out of a bag bouncing from place to place. Unemployed, I needed the money. Stupid, stupid move. I sold the stuff to a place called FamCom (not FamIcom, mind you) Games out in Redmond not terribly far from the Nintendo of America HQ, the owner was some sort of Turbo nut. I went back a couple years later to see if I could buy back any Turbo stuff and the store was gone, no sign it had ever been there.

[Marll]

Nope, that place is long gone as well. Only thing that annoyed me was that when he sold it, if he'd called me I'd have payed double what he got for it...oh well.