Magical Chase Waiting List

Shrapnoid · 01/27/2012, 09:52 AM

Until I read this thread, I had no idea that Order of the Griffon and Darkwing were suposedly so rare. I've had both of these games for nearly a decade and I got them dirt cheap at a dusty old flea market in S.C.

The booth owner told me that he only had one other customer who collected TG16 games.

All I really need for those two, are manuals and Labels but, since Sparky is doing label sets and I already have the pdf scans from replacementdocs and vimm's lair, I know I can do this without paying silly ebay prices which I wouldn't do anyway even for mint stuff.

As for MC, that gouging wont last much longer when they start to see that the real collectors who've been following the system since it first came out aren't going to bite.
It's only because of all of the hype -mainly on youtube- with people going on about how much they payed for it and how they just had to have it and couldn't believe that they got one and all of that crap.

All those greedy freaks on ebay... I've offered to sale some of my doubles at only a fraction of what they're asking for most stuff.

Price gouging makes me sick!

Arkhan Asylum · 01/27/2012, 09:55 AM

Around my hood, there aren't many actual turbo grafx collectors. There are some "collectors"... the ones that are like HAH BONK IS RAER I HAVE LIKE 500$ WORTH OF STUFF, but they just have a turbob with no cover, a loose bonk, a keith courage, and some spare controllers.

and are convinced everything is rare...

Bernie · 01/27/2012, 10:05 AM

Quote from: guest on 01/27/2012, 09:55 AMAround my hood, there aren't many actual turbo grafx collectors. There are some "collectors"... the ones that are like HAH BONK IS RAER I HAVE LIKE 500$ WORTH OF STUFF, but they just have a turbob with no cover, a loose bonk, a keith courage, and some spare controllers.

and are convinced everything is rare...

Im convinced they are just mentally retarded..

Arkhan Asylum · 01/27/2012, 10:08 AM

Well, I never said they weren't.

Shrapnoid · 01/27/2012, 10:20 AM

What it really is is ignorance and those ebay gougers *know* that all too well.
I'll bet when ever they do manage to sucker some poor punk out of half his pay check,
they sit back, counting the cash while giggling about how dumb people seem to be these days!

CrackTiger · 01/27/2012, 01:09 PM

Quote from: Shrapnoid on 01/27/2012, 09:52 AMUntil I read this thread, I had no idea that Order of the Griffon and Darkwing were suposedly so rare. I've had both of these games for nearly a decade and I got them dirt cheap at a dusty old flea market in S.C.

The booth owner told me that he only had one other customer who collected TG16 games.

All I really need for those two, are manuals and Labels but, since Sparky is doing label sets and I already have the pdf scans from replacementdocs and vimm's lair, I know I can do this without paying silly ebay prices which I wouldn't do anyway even for mint stuff.

As for MC, that gouging wont last much longer when they start to see that the real collectors who've been following the system since it first came out aren't going to bite.
It's only because of all of the hype -mainly on youtube- with people going on about how much they payed for it and how they just had to have it and couldn't believe that they got one and all of that crap.

All those greedy freaks on ebay... I've offered to sale some of my doubles at only a fraction of what they're asking for most stuff.

Price gouging makes me sick!

OotG and Darkwing Duck aren't rare, there are just as many of each as Magical Chase, which also isn't rare. The "rarest" Turbo game is Dynastic Hero, which was supposed to have been mail order only. As long there's been a trading or selling market for Turbo games online, I've seen Magical Chase available regularly, unlike many other games that don't have crazy collector prices. Although MC has always had a reputation of being uncommon, up until the recent market manipulation, it always sold at the most, for equal to or less than other Turbo games like Beyond Shadowgate. But the entire Turbo market hasn't proportionately increased together with Magical Chase, only Magical Chase has. It's proof that by even the craziest and most gouged collector values, Magical Chase's perceived value among a small group of people is completely baseless and doomed to bottom out sooner or later. They're all just trying to skim a profit before the price drops and not be the last one sitting on a stash of "rare" beanie babies the moment it's all over.

Games like OotG, DD, Tailspin and Nigh Creatures should be more valuable by both collector and player values. Unlike Magical Chase, they don't have PC Engine versions. So either those games are worth $1000 each or MC is worth $10. If you're going argue that player value should be based on content, Magical Chase is still not the best Turbo or PCE game. So MC as a collectible fails at rarity, unavailability, exclusivity, quality, and nature market price growth and proportionate Turbo game pricing.

Arkhan Asylum · 01/27/2012, 01:13 PM

Magical Chase is ok, but I'd take tons of other horizontal shooters that are falling out of everyones ass.

RType!

Bernie · 01/27/2012, 01:15 PM

Quote from: guest on 01/27/2012, 01:13 PMMagical Chase is ok, but I'd take tons of other horizontal shooters that are falling out of everyones ass.

RType!

LOve me some RType!

Shrapnoid · 01/27/2012, 02:01 PM

CrackTiger, -cool name-, I just happen to have those 4 games as well.

I scored Night Creatures with a Turbo Booster Plus and 10 other games in exchange for a few unopened DC games several years back.

VestCunt · 01/27/2012, 02:34 PM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 01/27/2012, 01:09 PMOotG and Darkwing Duck aren't rare, there are just as many of each as Magical Chase, which also isn't rare. The "rarest" Turbo game is Dynastic Hero, which was supposed to have been mail order only. As long there's been a trading or selling market for Turbo games online, I've seen Magical Chase available regularly, unlike many other games that don't have crazy collector prices.

CD games aside, there is evidence to suggest that MC is the rarest Turbochip. I've posted some arguments in the past here and here.

There's a tendency among greybeards to cross their arms and sagely inform newcomers that "pfff...Magical Chase isn't rare!" Yes, we see it traded a lot, but that's because the rarest Turbochip will always have the highest demand, not because it's common. There will always be an endless line of impulsive, desperate guys like alexsduo willing to do anything for a copy and after six months they'll be the next royvegas trying to get out of debt, buy a house, or get married and we'll see the same copies for sale again.

Quote from: CrackTiger on 01/27/2012, 01:09 PMAlthough MC has always had a reputation of being uncommon, up until the recent market manipulation, it always sold at the most, for equal to or less than other Turbo games like Beyond Shadowgate.

How far are you going back? I'd say that the market really went to seed in 2007. Before that, young collectors were fairly rare and BIN hadn't taken over ebay. MC has consistently been the most expensive U.S. game since I started paying attention at the beginning of '05 and copies of BS have never been close. Even in the Nineties, it was exceedingly rare: TZD sold out instantly and Radioshack and Games to Go (MPLS former Turbo Mecca) had Dynastic Hero, Hero Tonma, OotG, and Beyond Shadowgate, but not MC. The only time it ever seems to have been merely uncommon was when there were a handful of collectors on the Turbolist and they were more interested in SCD RPGs than yet another Turbochip shooter.

DragonmasterDan · 01/27/2012, 02:47 PM

Quote from: guest on 01/27/2012, 01:09 PMwhen there were a handful of collectors on the Turbolist and they were more interested in SCD RPGs than yet another Turbochip shooter.

Ahh.. Those were the days.

CrackTiger · 01/27/2012, 03:20 PM

Quote from: VestCunt on 01/27/2012, 02:34 PM
Quote from: CrackTiger on 01/27/2012, 01:09 PMOotG and Darkwing Duck aren't rare, there are just as many of each as Magical Chase, which also isn't rare. The "rarest" Turbo game is Dynastic Hero, which was supposed to have been mail order only. As long there's been a trading or selling market for Turbo games online, I've seen Magical Chase available regularly, unlike many other games that don't have crazy collector prices.
CD games aside, there is evidence to suggest that MC is the rarest Turbochip. I've posted some arguments in the past here and here.

There's a tendency among greybeards to cross their arms and sagely inform newcomers that "pfff...Magical Chase isn't rare!" Yes, we see it traded a lot, but that's because the rarest Turbochip will always have the highest demand, not because it's common. There will always be an endless line of impulsive, desperate guys like alexsduo willing to do anything for a copy and after six months they'll be the next royvegas trying to get out of debt, buy a house, or get married and we'll see the same copies for sale again.
Quote from: CrackTiger on 01/27/2012, 01:09 PMAlthough MC has always had a reputation of being uncommon, up until the recent market manipulation, it always sold at the most, for equal to or less than other Turbo games like Beyond Shadowgate.
How far are you going back? I'd say that the market really went to seed in 2007. Before that, young collectors were fairly rare and BIN hadn't taken over ebay. MC has consistently been the most expensive U.S. game since I started paying attention at the beginning of '05 and copies of BS have never been close. Even in the Nineties, it was exceedingly rare: TZD sold out instantly and Radioshack and Games to Go (MPLS former Turbo Mecca) had Dynastic Hero, Hero Tonma, OotG, and Beyond Shadowgate, but not MC. The only time it ever seems to have been merely uncommon was when there were a handful of collectors on the Turbolist and they were more interested in SCD RPGs than yet another Turbochip shooter.

From the late ninties onward. Even on this forum for years people scoffed at the ridiculous asking prices as high as $100. Not simply because no game is worth that, but because, like many games, you could get it at a decent price if you simply patient. But it was one of those titles that non-Turbo-fan Turbo collectors happened to have trouble finding instantly when assembling instant collections and it gained a reputation within the non-Turbo-fan collecting community, which ran separate from the reputation with the Turbo community. All it takes is a ridiculously incorrect rarity score in a bullshit rarity guide to destroy a game like this. Anyone who has to reference a guide doesn't have a feel for the subject and is basing the value of something solely on what someone or something tells them.

Independant and U.S. Only releases like Klax, Sidearms, Tricky Kick, Parasol Stars, etc probably have very low print numbers by TG-16 standards. Some may actually not be as low as Magical Chase, but if they're still some of the lowest, then they should go for hundreds of dollars if rarity is the driving force of MC prices.

I'm not saying that MC isn't rare by general video game standards, all Turbo games are. But there's no way MC is much rarer than several other Turbo games that don't go for crazy prices. Ever since I got online I've always seen MC for sale or trade, but for years I never saw games like Darkwing Duck, Legend of Hero Tonma, Beyond Shadowgate, etc.

For the MC prices to reflect its rarity, there shouldn't be such a huge jump in price between it and other Turbo games. Dynastic Hero is definitely much rarer, but even its crazy gouged prices are maybe half of MC's and Dynastic Hero has always been harder to find. Especially back in the day.

Even if it could be proven that MC holds the title as having the lowest print run, the number is still not that low. No Turbo game is. There seem to be way more MCs than System 3.0 cards, but even those aren't that overpriced.

There is still no logical explanation based on supply and demand, that MC should remain steady at $100 - $150 tops for a long time and then jump to $500 and then the sky's the limit. Did 90% of them suddenly disappear?

SMF · 01/27/2012, 03:31 PM

They didn't disappear persay, Just along with the 1st set of Beanies that was released I've got my basement ful waiting to die a very rich (poor) Man MUWHAHAHAHAH

DragonmasterDan · 01/27/2012, 03:59 PM

Just a quick note, I don't think the perceived Magical Chase rarity whether accurate or not is because of print run, but rather because when TTI closed their doors some stock excess stock that didn't go to TZD was destroyed, and being a less noteworthy title than Bonk and some of the others, fewer copies were spared from doom than other titles. As a result fewer remain today.

VestCunt · 01/27/2012, 05:17 PM

Quote from: DragonmasterDan on 01/27/2012, 03:59 PMJust a quick note, I don't think the perceived Magical Chase rarity whether accurate or not is because of print run, but rather because when TTI closed their doors some stock excess stock that didn't go to TZD was destroyed, and being a less noteworthy title than Bonk and some of the others, fewer copies were spared from doom than other titles. As a result fewer remain today.

This is one of the main points I made in the links above.
1) Penultimate Turbochip + third-party release = one of the smallest print runs.
2) Late1993 = very few copies shipped to stores
3) Stock was destroyed
4) No-name, third-party release = very few copies saved from the bulldozer.

Quote from: CrackTiger on 01/27/2012, 03:20 PMFor the MC prices to reflect its rarity...

It's best to address price and rarity separately. My main point is rarity. I think it's the rarest Turbochip (CDs are a different kettle of fish), but not by a big enough margin to warrant a higher cost than DH or BS, which are probably equally rare.

As far as prices, there's no rational explanation. Here's one theory: maybe CD "backups" played a role in giving MC a headstart over the SCD rarities ten years ago. We used to get more guys around here asking for roms, asking how to play burned discs, or just making off-handed comments like, "oh, I'm not going to bother with the expensive games; I have backups." It was quiet different than these days, now all of the noobs want complete collections. Back then it was still possible to find 72-minute CDrs while flash cards were in their infancy. The small niche of gamers who enjoy original hardware, but aren't too particular about their software may have been enough to tip the scales early on.

Anyway...

Quote from: CrackTiger on 01/27/2012, 03:20 PMDid 90% of them suddenly disappear?

Yeah, I think they did actually. There's probably a lot more guys like the one described here:

Quote from: alexsduo on 03/14/2011, 05:50 AMWhat really gets me is a particular guy who sells on ebay... I asked him if he had MC, because of the items(s) he was selling, and he told me he had 6 or 8 copies. And when I keep harassing him, presumably to sell me a copy, he told me he was holding on to them for investment purposes.

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 05:39 PM

I always thought MC (Like Dynastic) was basically ONLY available through TZD. We could email Garwood over at ampie and find out. He's always very forthcoming with answers. But then last time I talked to him I made a joke about the Johnny Turbo comic only to find out the characters were based on real people who are friends of his. Whoops :-( (Apologies if either of you are out there, reading this)

Arkhan, once again you're hilarious. I only have one thing to say. I MAKEZ GAMZZZZ FEST. ONLEE MEEEZZZ !!!!!!! (I really think I'm going to make that my new tag.) Seriously though, I'm PMing Rover right now to get the rest of the Cobb story. You know what someone should do? Get that pic of him off his website (where he has his hand under his chin trying to emulate Rodin's Thinker), and maybe maybe pencil in a mustache and glasses and maybe some cartoon genitalia poking in the head. Juvenile YES! But still will be classic hilarity. And yes, Pier Solar turned out better than Beggar Prince, Wukong, or Star Odyssey (but those 3 are good too).

Anyway, I'll message Rover and Garwood this weekend. Will see what Steve says.

SignOfZeta · 01/27/2012, 05:41 PM

MC is expensive because people want it to be expensive. Certain people need a Holy Grail to worship, obtain, and then use as a way to self identify as a Big Tymer.

That's it. No other reason. If MC was a pack-in game these people would just pick something else to dick ride.

CrackTiger · 01/27/2012, 05:53 PM

Quote from: jayamine on 01/27/2012, 05:39 PMI always thought MC (Like Dynastic) was basically ONLY available through TZD. We could email Garwood over at ampie and find out. He's always very forthcoming with answers. But then last time I talked to him I made a joke about the Johnny Turbo comic only to find out the characters were based on real people who are friends of his. Whoops :-( (Apologies if either of you are out there, reading this)

Arkhan, once again you're hilarious. I only have one thing to say. I MAKEZ GAMZZZZ FEST. ONLEE MEEEZZZ !!!!!!! (I really think I'm going to make that my new tag.) Seriously though, I'm PMing Rover right now to get the rest of the Cobb story. You know what someone should do? Get that pic of him off his website (where he has his hand under his chin trying to emulate Rodin's Thinker), and maybe maybe pencil in a mustache and glasses and maybe some cartoon genitalia poking in the head. Juvenile YES! But still will be classic hilarity. And yes, Pier Solar turned out better than Beggar Prince, Wukong, or Star Odyssey (but those 3 are good too).

Anyway, I'll message Rover and Garwood this weekend. Will see what Steve says.

I bought Magical Chase brand new for $5 from a Canadian Radio Shack in 1994.

QuoteThis is one of the main points I made in the links above.
1) Penultimate Turbochip + third-party release = one of the smallest print runs.
2) Late1993 = very few copies shipped to stores
3) Stock was destroyed
4) No-name, third-party release = very few copies saved from the bulldozer.

But I've been talking about how common it's been since post-TTi to now, not how there were stacks and stacks in stores bitd.

What makes you think it is a third party release?

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 06:06 PM

I was always under the impression that Steve got his hands on everything. There was no bulldozing specifically because of him (TZD). Of course, that wouldn't account for stock already in retail outlets. But then, I'm not sure. I emailed him and asked these things. Will see if he responds.

Best deals I got ... Beyond Shadowgate for $5 from Electronics Boutique in late 1993 and Dynastic Hero from a friend for $30 in late 1998. Wish I'd grabbed a few others like Godzilla and Cotton when I had the chance. I think MC is the only US release I've never actually seen in person.

P.S. Arkhan ... yes, Rover's story was very enlightening.

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 06:08 PM

Oh, the Magical Chase at Radio Shack ... did they have to special order it for you? Or was it there on the shelf? Radio Shack was one of TZD's longest running retailers. I could still walk into a Shack here in Roanoke as late as 2005 and they would be able to order Turbo games for me. Steve at one point did confirm for me, it was him they were ordering from.

VestCunt · 01/27/2012, 07:10 PM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 01/27/2012, 05:53 PMBut I've been talking about how common it's been since post-TTi to now, not how there were stacks and stacks in stores bitd.

Read my post again. I'm not talking about the number of copies that were in stores (Games To Go was a second hand store c.1995-98). I'm talking about why there are most likely fewer copies of MC in existence than any other Turbochip.

Quote from: CrackTiger on 01/27/2012, 05:53 PMWhat makes you think it is a third party release?

OK, it was a no-name Quest game released by TTI. It's still the second-to-last Turbochip, it's not Bonk 3, and there's the bulldozed stock report. Whether or not you believe it, these are the only things we have to go on aside from personal accounts of how many times each of us have happened to see individual games. If anyone can present a plausible theory for why Darkwing Duck or Hero Tonma are rarer, I'm all ears.

Quote from: jayamine on 01/27/2012, 06:06 PMI was always under the impression that Steve got his hands on everything. There was no bulldozing specifically because of him (TZD).

It seems unlikely that a startup company could afford all of TTI's unused stock. See the link above.

BTW, is Steve's record store still around? I thought that went under too.

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 07:18 PM

Seems plausible enough .. but it's still all circumstantial. I'll wait until I hear back from a traceable source (like Steve) before I decide what I think.

Yeah, you can still email Steve at ampie.com
Don't go flooding his box though :-D

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 07:23 PM

OH I was reading on the other thread about that Sapphire reprint. They were done buy some guy in Germany through a pressing company in China. Same guy who did that "official" release of Space Fantasy Zone. his website was something like. anime.sapphire.de

I talked to him once. Said he did about 100 of the SFZ. Not sure about the Sapphire. I think (to protect himself at the time), he claimed that they were "found" in a Chinese warehouse.

Kinda wish I'd gotten one of the SFZ, but I never would ahve opened it... couldn't bring myself to buy it just as a trophy. I think the lowest he'd go on them was about $125 shipped anyway. He finally sold out of them.

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 07:25 PM

http://sapphire.anime4ever.de/

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 07:31 PM

The bulldozer story is true. Waiting on permission to post my source so it's official and credible.

nectarsis · 01/27/2012, 07:32 PM

Quote from: jayamine on 01/27/2012, 06:08 PMOh, the Magical Chase at Radio Shack ... did they have to special order it for you? Or was it there on the shelf? Radio Shack was one of TZD's longest running retailers. I could still walk into a Shack here in Roanoke as late as 2005 and they would be able to order Turbo games for me. Steve at one point did confirm for me, it was him they were ordering from.

Not sure why you're cling to this "not in stores" business...I know you're newer here, but any of the MC discussions have multiple posts of people (like myself as well) seeing MC in a variety of stores. EBGames Southridge Mall, Milwaukee, WI.... MC on the shelf with 2-3 behind the counter back in the day. Seen also at Toys R Us...this is far from a mail order/special order only game.

SignOfZeta · 01/27/2012, 07:39 PM

Quote from: jayamine on 01/27/2012, 07:23 PMOH I was reading on the other thread about that Sapphire reprint. They were done buy some guy in Germany through a pressing company in China. Same guy who did that "official" release of Space Fantasy Zone. his website was something like. anime.sapphire.de

I talked to him once. Said he did about 100 of the SFZ. Not sure about the Sapphire. I think (to protect himself at the time), he claimed that they were "found" in a Chinese warehouse.

Kinda wish I'd gotten one of the SFZ, but I never would ahve opened it... couldn't bring myself to buy it just as a trophy. I think the lowest he'd go on them was about $125 shipped anyway. He finally sold out of them.

The Sapphires he made were very nice. However, anyone who pays more than $5 for the SFZs is a fucking chump though. They are CDRs, for fuck's sake...

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 07:43 PM

I kind of figured they were CDRs with pretty packaging. Never get one myself.

Pardon my newness, just wanting to be clear on issues.

CrackTiger · 01/27/2012, 07:47 PM

Quote from: jayamine on 01/27/2012, 06:08 PMOh, the Magical Chase at Radio Shack ... did they have to special order it for you? Or was it there on the shelf? Radio Shack was one of TZD's longest running retailers. I could still walk into a Shack here in Roanoke as late as 2005 and they would be able to order Turbo games for me. Steve at one point did confirm for me, it was him they were ordering from.

lol, they wouldn't special order a game for $5.

It was in a clearance bin along with Cotton and a Duo Tap and a Duo Pad or two that I bought for the same price. Before that visit to the store, I had been mail ordering Duo games like DEII, Madden and Lords from them for $20 each for about a year. Radio Shack in Canada was not affiliated with the American company. They licensed the name and carried a lot of the same things though.

They definitely never dealt with TZD, since they refused to sell to Canadians. When they eventually gave us the privelage of dealing with them, they wanted something ridiculous like $30 shipping per game. Whatever it was, it made the games much more (double?) expensive than anywhere else online. I don't remember if I actually went through with a transaction with TZD in the last year or so, but I at least contacted them to find that they were finally charging reasonable prices to sell to Canadians.

Radio Shack in both Canada and the U.S. was definitely one of the longest running NEC and TTi retailers. I doubt that Radio Shacks in the U.S. kept selling Turbo games for TZD through the 32-bit generation. They definitely stopped in Canada when TTi went under.

Quote from: VestCunt on 01/27/2012, 07:10 PMRead my post again. I'm not talking about the number of copies that were in stores (Games To Go was a second hand store c.1995-98). I'm talking about why there are most likely fewer copies of MC in existence than any other Turbochip.

Yeah, but none of that is unique to Magical Chase.

I believe that there may be as few copies of Magical Chase in existence as any TurboChip, but I've still seen it around as often as other games and for a long time, much more than games like Darkwing Duck. Plus I've yet to find games like Darkwing Duck, Ghost Manor and Hero Tonma, in the wild, but I did find Magical Chase bitd. There may even be fewer copies of MC than any other TurboChip game, but it can't be a big difference, unless only a few hundred were made and for some reason they're always for sale.

Quote
Quote from: CrackTiger on 01/27/2012, 05:53 PMWhat makes you think it is a third party release?
OK, it was a no-name Quest game released by TTI. It's still the second-to-last Turbochip, it's not Bonk 3, and there's the bulldozed stock report. Whether or not you believe it, these are the only things we have to go on aside from personal accounts of how many times each of us have happened to see individual games. If anyone can present a plausible theory for why Darkwing Duck or Hero Tonma are rarer, I'm all ears.

I only skimmed the posts for a while, but I didn't see anything in that story claiming that they singled out Magical Chase for destruction.

I don't doubt that many people are sitting on copies of Magical Chase though, like TZD did. Many "investment" minded people were hoarding games like MC back when it was only hard to find, but hadn't skyrocketed artificially.

Quote
Quote from: jayamine on 01/27/2012, 06:06 PMI was always under the impression that Steve got his hands on everything. There was no bulldozing specifically because of him (TZD).
It seems unlikely that a startup company could afford all of TTI's unused stock. See the link above.

BTW, is Steve's record store still around? I thought that went under too.

Does it seem likely that once they gave up on trying to sell the stock at the prices the few takers could only afford to buy so much of, that instead of calling them up and saying "just take the rest", they instead spent money on destroying everything? If they were looking to lose money, why not just destroy everything in the first place?

Making theories about why Magical Chase could technically be the rarest of all doesn't prove anything unfortunately. If we could magically find out how many copies of any game currently exist and it turned out that MC was way lower than the rest, then these kinds of theories would offer possible explanations. But we don't even know how rare any game really is. All that we do know is that there are a lot of people with an interest in keeping MC inflated and are actively working towards feeding every aspect of the hype. At this point, with the game being held hostage by buttery 133t collectors, it's the same difference.

SignOfZeta · 01/27/2012, 07:48 PM

If you can get one of the Sapphires for a decent price, say, $35, go for it. They are nearly indistinguishable from the real deal.

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 07:48 PM

Yeah Happy Conosle Gamer said something to me the other day about TZD being "not-Canada friendly." (He's up in Vancouver.) I never knew. But yeah, you make complete sense.

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 07:50 PM

I think the guy still custom makes the SFZ. SOmething on his website about "sold out, but please inquire" I don't think he'd take a reasonable price though. I'd just want it for all the pretty paper packaging bits anyway.

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 09:57 PM

1600 copies of Magical Chase were destroyed on bulldozer day. TZD got 100 copies plus whatever was out there retail.

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 10:02 PM

only 500 copies of dynastic hero were made, but apparently (and this all from memory) TZD had every single copy. Now here's what's interesting ..... m&m3, godzilla, bonk3 cd, super air zonk .... also only 500 ... meaning dynastic is no more or less rare than any of those. please post if you have additional info to add or corrections.

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 10:04 PM

Dungeon explorer 2 was two print runs of 500 each. Beyond shadowgate, terraforming and cotton around 250 each plus whatever was out on retail. The rest was destoryed.

SignOfZeta · 01/27/2012, 10:30 PM

Quote from: jayamine on 01/27/2012, 07:50 PMI think the guy still custom makes the SFZ. SOmething on his website about "sold out, but please inquire" I don't think he'd take a reasonable price though. I'd just want it for all the pretty paper packaging bits anyway.

Just make one yourself. A quality laser printer and CD burner can do whatever this guy does. Seriously, it isn't worth jack.

The Sapphires are a lot more valuable, at least to me. They are pressed CDs, offset print, quality all the way.

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 10:33 PM

Oh I had one, but never opened it and traded it. No ACD plus I nabbed it on PSP (traitorous I know)

jayamine · 01/27/2012, 10:37 PM

The problem with SFZ is that I'd need printable images of the fold out instruction bookletN back insertN and spine. Plus he did a nice job on the cd cover itself. I don't have a cd labeling kit

Mathius · 01/27/2012, 11:44 PM

So many MCs destroyed. I know it's over-hyped but that is really sad.

jayamine · 01/28/2012, 12:09 AM

Yeah it was incredibly nice of Steve to provide me with so many exact figures. Who knows how many MCs hit retail? (Prolly more than 500. Pity those outer boxes never survive) also interesting that a game like godzilla is just as rare as dynastic, but not worth nearly as much

Arkhan Asylum · 01/28/2012, 01:37 AM

Quote from: jayamine on 01/27/2012, 10:33 PMOh I had one, but never opened it and traded it. No ACD plus I nabbed it on PSP (traitorous I know)

why? That PSP version is tits!

SignOfZeta · 01/28/2012, 03:27 AM

Quote from: jayamine on 01/27/2012, 10:37 PMThe problem with SFZ is that I'd need printable images of the fold out instruction bookletN back insertN and spine. Plus he did a nice job on the cd cover itself. I don't have a cd labeling kit

You can just make the book yourself. His isn't "official" or anything. The game never even came out. Whatever he put in there (I actually don't know) is just random SFZ related crap he found on the internet.

BTW, there was recently some talk here of making some better bootlegs. This may or may not come about.

jayamine · 01/28/2012, 06:10 AM

Hmmmm. SFZ with english language packaging? That could be awesome-ness! Never had an ACD or Kisado. Could never bring myseld to unshrink my 2nd run sapphire anyway. I only have about 40 pce/duo games, but proud to say I've had several of the rare ones since day 1.

Mathius · 01/28/2012, 12:22 PM

Here ya go

https://www.pcengine-fx.com/forums/index.php?topic=10156.0

jayamine · 01/28/2012, 01:52 PM

Considering there are only 500 each of most of those games in existence minus however many have been lost over the decades (in English), I think an unofficial second print would be great. Run them on a press. Make them indistinguishable except for a clear and unmoveable "SECOND PRINT" notation on the disc and in the instructions.

According to Steve Garwood, the rarest ones (500 or less) are Might & Magic 3, Godzilla, Super Air Zonk, Bonk 3 CD, Dynastic Hero, Cotton, and Beyond Shadowgate. (I imagine Exile II and Dungeon Explorer II follow close behind ... but then Ex2 might be tricky because of the sleeve)

Pick one title. Do between 300-500 copies. Sell them at a slight profit to cover other expenses that might occur. (Also the excess cash could be used to fund the second game while the first one is still selling.) No one gets paid except for people who provide graphic design, programming, and other services (English translation and manual perhaps for SFZ). All the excess money stays in an account for the next project, etc.

My credit decent and available. If you guys are serious about that sort of thing, I'd be willing to bank roll a decent sum up front.

I like the idea of starting with an English project version of Space Fantasy Zone or a reprint of Dynastic. Might and Magic 3 and Shadowgate might be a tad more expensive because of the enclosed map/posters and larger jewel cases.

Mathius · 01/28/2012, 02:23 PM

Go into the thread above and state your case. That'll help to keep this nice and tidy.

jayamine · 01/28/2012, 02:36 PM

They'll probably just laugh at me, but I'll do it just as soon as put this load of laundry in :-)

VestCunt · 01/28/2012, 02:36 PM

Quote from: CrackTiger on 01/27/2012, 07:47 PMYeah, but none of that is unique to Magical Chase.

Ahhh....Yes it is. Fact: MC was the penultimate Turbochip. Fact: it didn't have the name recognition of Bonk 3 or Bomberman. Fact: it wasn't licensed from giants like Disney, Capcom, or Hudson. Gee, now let's see, could ANY of these points factor into how many were destroyed?

Quote from: CrackTiger on 01/27/2012, 07:47 PMI believe that there may be as few copies of Magical Chase in existence as any TurboChip, but I've still seen it around as often as other games and for a long time, much more than games like Darkwing Duck. Plus I've yet to find games like Darkwing Duck, Ghost Manor and Hero Tonma, in the wild, but I did find Magical Chase bitd. There may even be fewer copies of MC than any other TurboChip game, but it can't be a big difference, unless only a few hundred were made and for some reason they're always for sale.

Quote from: VestCunt on 01/27/2012, 07:10 PM...aside from personal accounts of how many times each of us have happened to see individual games. If anyone can present a plausible theory for why Darkwing Duck or Hero Tonma are rarer, I'm all ears.

Quote from: CrackTiger on 01/27/2012, 07:47 PMDoes it seem likely that once they gave up on trying to sell the stock at the prices the few takers could only afford to buy so much of, that instead of calling them up and saying "just take the rest", they instead spent money on destroying everything? If they were looking to lose money, why not just destroy everything in the first place?

Bankruptcy 101:

Quote from: geepee16 on 07/05/2008, 09:43 PMdestruction of unsold merchandise is extremely common- especially when a business is going under. in order to have debts forgiven and be liquidated, all assets must be sold. whatever is not sold may NOT be kept in most cases because that company has to be zeroed out without and value on the books. you can't just keep your products lying around and make profit in the future when you owe money now.

Anyway, thanks to jayamine, we've now confirmed the bulldozer story from the horse's mouth. I never want to hear someone compare MC to OotG again.

Quote from: CrackTiger on 01/27/2012, 07:47 PMRadio Shack in both Canada and the U.S. was definitely one of the longest running NEC and TTi retailers. I doubt that Radio Shacks in the U.S. kept selling Turbo games for TZD through the 32-bit generation. They definitely stopped in Canada when TTi went under.

I ordered games through Radio Shack in the U.S. until 1998 or so. I got Soldier Blade, Bomberman 93, Dragon Slayer, Ys 3, and Shockman.

nectarsis · 01/28/2012, 02:41 PM

Quote from: guest on 01/28/2012, 02:36 PM
Quote from: guest on 01/27/2012, 07:47 PMYeah, but none of that is unique to Magical Chase.
Ahhh....Yes it is. Fact: MC was the penultimate Turbochip. Fact: it didn't have the name recognition of Bonk 3 or Bomberman. Fact: it wasn't licensed from giants like Disney, Capcom, or Hudson. Gee, now let's see, could ANY of these points factor into how many were destroyed?

Quote from: guest on 01/27/2012, 07:47 PMI believe that there may be as few copies of Magical Chase in existence as any TurboChip, but I've still seen it around as often as other games and for a long time, much more than games like Darkwing Duck. Plus I've yet to find games like Darkwing Duck, Ghost Manor and Hero Tonma, in the wild, but I did find Magical Chase bitd. There may even be fewer copies of MC than any other TurboChip game, but it can't be a big difference, unless only a few hundred were made and for some reason they're always for sale.
Quote from: guest on 01/27/2012, 07:10 PM...aside from personal accounts of how many times each of us have happened to see individual games. If anyone can present a plausible theory for why Darkwing Duck or Hero Tonma are rarer, I'm all ears.
Quote from: guest on 01/27/2012, 07:47 PMDoes it seem likely that once they gave up on trying to sell the stock at the prices the few takers could only afford to buy so much of, that instead of calling them up and saying "just take the rest", they instead spent money on destroying everything? If they were looking to lose money, why not just destroy everything in the first place?
Bankruptcy 101:
Quote from: geepee16 on 07/05/2008, 09:43 PMdestruction of unsold merchandise is extremely common- especially when a business is going under. in order to have debts forgiven and be liquidated, all assets must be sold. whatever is not sold may NOT be kept in most cases because that company has to be zeroed out without and value on the books. you can't just keep your products lying around and make profit in the future when you owe money now.
Anyway, thanks to jayamine, we've now confirmed the bulldozer story from the horse's mouth. I never want to hear someone compare MC to OotG again.

Quote from: guest on 01/27/2012, 07:47 PMRadio Shack in both Canada and the U.S. was definitely one of the longest running NEC and TTi retailers. I doubt that Radio Shacks in the U.S. kept selling Turbo games for TZD through the 32-bit generation. They definitely stopped in Canada when TTi went under.
I ordered games through Radio Shack in the U.S. until 1998 or so. I got Soldier Blade, Bomberman 93, Dragon Slayer, Ys 3, and Shockman.

In this case though we're talking what, between 10-20 YEARS, and a lot of is prob based off of memories. Not saying that anyone would lie, but seriously you can remember exact totals, or have documentation from that long ago? Besides basing everything off of ONE person (possibly fallible/doesn't remember correctly, etc)...no matter who it is, is dubious as it is. Who's to say that just as many copies of OoTG weren't lost destroyed (which in all honestly prob sold worse than MC, or DD, etc.)?

jayamine · 01/28/2012, 02:53 PM

The numbers were pulled last night from actual physical records. literally pieces of official physical documentation that have been in a filing cabinet for twenty years. You don't have to believe me, but I'm not making this up. The Polaroids do in fact exist ... but they're most likely in the office of some NEC Corporate Lawyer's cold storage cabinet somewhere in japan. (Now to play devil's advocate ... aside from the numbers which have all been pulled from physical record ... a lot of it does rely on Steve's memory)

I'm working on getting paper records of how many of each game were actually produced and specific release dates down to the day. The only thing that will be in question after that is how many have been lost to history over the past two decades. And who knows. 1600 MCs were destroyed that day. Maybe 2000 Griffon's were destroyed on the same day.

TZD purchased close to a half million $$ in stock that day and there was still TONS destroyed. Factoring backwards from inflation ... imagine how much a half mil in games was twenty years ago.

If you guys are still in doubt, Steve said I could post his words after I black a few "proper nouns" out. Certain names and titles still need to remain anonymous.

Oh, P.S. My name is Joe. jayamine stands for J. A. Yamine. No prob t all, but it feels weird when epople call me jay (since I have a close friend named Jay)

Also, I'm not new here. I just haven't been around for a few years. I'll go dig up my posts from years back - Nanto keeps great records - just to show you how long I've been in this community. I was on BT's mailing list as far back as 1998.