PC-FX compatibility with Acer monitor

[Yamazaki]

http://www.amazon.de/Acer-M230HDL-Monitor-TV-Reaktionszeit-schwarz/dp/B003U4NZ1Y/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1348497618&sr=8-4

Would a non-modded PC-FX be compatible with the monitor above?

It has the following entries: Analog Tuner In: Hybrid, Digital Tuner In: Hybrid, SCART 1: CVBS, RGB(In), ATV/DTV, Component In: YPbPr, AV1 In: CVBS, S Video, SPDIF Out: Ja(Coxial), HDMI 1: Yes(1.3), PC Audio-In: Yes, Headphone Out: Yes, CA/CI: Ja, USB: Yes

AFAIK it is also able to deal with NTSC-format.

So in theory it should work perfectly with a non-modded PC-FX right?

I also plan to connect my non-modded DUO-R to this (future) monitor.

[Ji-L87]

Short answer: Yes. S-video will probably look best. Not sure about lag.

Long answer: Seems it will work just fine. For the PC-FX, S-video & composite (yellow cord, commonly bundled together with stere/mono left (white) and stereo right (red) is the video output options available. S-video should look best, but it seems the monitor also might have a good comb filter if you decide to go with composite video. (Composite is one combined signal and a combfilter is needed to separate the video information contained within. A better filter yields better results).

What I can't find any information on is if there's an option to view content in 4:3 instead of 16:9 widescreen. But it probably has a setting for that.
As for input lag, it's a Full HD monitor so the low resolution signal from the PC-FX will have to be scaled up to the native resolution of the monitor and possibly subjected to other things as well, but this is the same for all modern display so the same thing would happen if you were to connect it to a modern LCD/LED TV.

[Yamazaki]

Thanx a lot!

Here in Germany I attend a lot of game meetups and it's not very practicable to carry a 32" CRT TV to these meetups.

So I was looking for a cheap and good solution.

[Ji-L87]

If you get one, please report back on how it worked ;)

I forgot to mention deinterlacing, but you can't really say unless you've tried it. Most modern TVs have trouble with this though, so I wouldn't be surprised if it also was the case here.

[Yamazaki]

So I finally ordered the Acer monitor/tv and will get it by next week


some further questions: the TV is able to deliver a NTSC signal, does that mean I can also plug in my PC Engine Duo withouth having to mod it for RGB? or would an RGB mod be the better option?

I also plan to connect a Famitech (japanese Famicom clone) to it - it comes with a composite video cabel (yellow/white only). that should work too right?


is there the need for an XRGB-3 or something like that in order to get a better image with scanlines?


I FORGOT TO MENTION: is there any risk to "kill" the TV with using these retro consoles and their video outputs`I remember reading somehere that PC-Fx or the likes should not be used on LCD/LED-TVs

[Tatsujin]

is there the need for an XRGB-3 or something like that in order to get a better image with scanlines?


I FORGOT TO MENTION: is there any risk to "kill" the TV with using these retro consoles and their video outputs`I remember reading somehere that PC-Fx or the likes should not be used on LCD/LED-TVs

1. Yeah, get one of these xrgb-3 and all your "scanline sorrows" will be solved forever

2. I dont think so. Sounds like some big hogwash to me. Still if you're doubtful, just follow answer #1 to eliminate this issue off your list as well.

[Ji-L87]

So I finally ordered the Acer monitor/tv and will get it by next week

Sweet! Do report back the results
How the image is, if you experience any input lag or so on and so forth...

some further questions:
1) the TV is able to deliver a NTSC signal, does that mean I can also plug in my PC Engine Duo withouth having to mod it for RGB? or would an RGB mod be the better option?

2) I also plan to connect a Famitech (japanese Famicom clone) to it - it comes with a composite video cabel (yellow/white only). that should work too right?

3) is there the need for an XRGB-3 or something like that in order to get a better image with scanlines?


4) I FORGOT TO MENTION: is there any risk to "kill" the TV with using these retro consoles and their video outputs`I remember reading somehere that PC-Fx or the likes should not be used on LCD/LED-TVs

1 & 2) RGB is always better than composite & s-video. However, my Duo is still stock so I should be quiet There is a composite input on the back in the images shown, so that should work fine with any composite video source. The quality of the comb filter in the display will determine the results, however.

3) The XRGB units (mostly XRGB 3 & XRGB Mini/Framemeister) are very popular scalers. However there are also cheaper solutions out there, maybe not just in one convenient box. The XRGB 3 is touted as very capable, however maybe a bit complicated. If you're interested in adding a scaler + scanlines to your setup, here's some good reading

Lurking this hardware forum is also a good idea.

Actually, not sure how good the XRGB's comb filter is (hence the name, it's mostly intended for RGB) so if you go that route, looking into a cheap external comb filter such as a DVD recorder might be a good idea. I've seen threads on the internet about that

4) I've never heard that happen :s I DO have heard thing like that happening with the Sharp X86000 computer but I want to remember it was narrowed down to incorrect grounding in either a popular VGA adaptor or in the VGA port on the unit itself. You shouldn't have to worry about this

[Yamazaki]

Thanks a lot guys!

It should arrive tomorrow or later today and I will post some screenshots to show the quality.

[majors]

http://www.amazon.de/Acer-M230HDL-Monitor-TV-Reaktionszeit-schwarz/dp/B003U4NZ1Y/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1348497618&sr=8-4

It has the following entries: ... SCART 1: CVBS, RGB(In)...

Being from the states, I've never seen a LCD with a SCART input. It makes sense over in Europe it would be a option on LCD's. I wonder if the monitor has some built-in encoder that takes the RGB input and just upscales? I figure since an LCD is digital, and RGB is (old school) analog, it would have to.

If you could test the SCART input with another device, and it looks good, then you could save some coin and just RGB mod your Duo instead of going the xRGB-2/3+SLG-300/Framemister. Or is the Euro and JP SCART different?

[Ji-L87]

is the Euro and JP SCART different?

Same connector, different pinout.

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[Yamazaki]

Just tested the monitor with my unmodded Duo and my PC-FX over composite cable.

Both looked rather nasty...

here are some pics:



soooo the solution for the Duo-R would be an RGB mod so that I can use a SCART cable right?

what should I do for the PC-FX?

[Ji-L87]

Ow, yes. That could've looked better, I'm sorry to say.  I was expecting better results than that. Right, so, there might still be hope for the PC-FX if you can find an s-video cable somewhere.

And before rushing away to mod that Duo, if you happen to have any other unit that outputs through RGB scart, like a VCR or DVD player, you should probably try that first. Just make sure it properly outputs RGB, not simply composite through the scart connector. If it is the internal scaling which causes this rather poor image, looking at the images, it's very possible that even fed with something like an RGB or component signal it might still look bad if it has to scale it.

Now, in such case, I think even a cheap scaler solution will look much better than it is now, especially since it's still a small screen.

[Yamazaki]

What could be a good and cheao scaler solution for this monitor?

I don't have much knowledge about scaling^^ and didnt have time to read the links


UPDATE: JUst read most of the links from retrogaming hazard city.


So the best solution would be either a Framemeister or XRGB-3. Cheaper solutions would be those 50$ china clones.

OR the setup SLG3000 and Sync Strikr + GBS-8820

[Ji-L87]

UPDATE: JUst read most of the links from retrogaming hazard city.

So the best solution would be either a Framemeister or XRGB-3. Cheaper solutions would be those 50$ china clones.

OR the setup SLG3000 and Sync Strikr + GBS-8820

You probably saw that but the SLG3000/SyncStrike/GBS8820-combo can be had in one unit called the "ArcadeForge SLG-IN-A-BOX", which should save some space/less wire clutter.

I must admit that I don't have any personal experience with the above mentioned units as my setup currently consists of a two-unit setup+RGB to component transcoder, which might be bit too cumbersome to lug around to those game meetups you mentioned. (I had to factor in PAL functionality when I was choosing scaler, and the Framemeister's PAL performce was flawed when it was just released).

The biggest problem will probably be finding a space/money effective solution for composite sources, as most people only talk about RGB and sometimes s-video. 

Some hopefully helpful resources:

Thread for the "SLG-in-a-box" combined unit

Video walkthrough/review of the SLG-in-a-box

Thread about the SLG3000

Thread for the XRGB 3

Thread for the XRGB Mini Framemeister

The XRGB wiki

Blog about using the DVDO Edge & XRGB 3 scaler in gaming setups, also some other things.

Thread about the performance of the DVDO Edge

Thread about the HD Box Pro

 

[Yamazaki]

I guess RGB and S-Video should not be a problem.

I will mod my DUO-R to RGB, my Neo Geo is already RGB modded, and I am searching an S-Video cable for my PC-FX.

Only thing left would be my Famitech Famicom clone - I guess having a real Famicom would be better in that case...


I guess the best (but ala most expensive) solution would be to get a Framemeister - since that one is top quality and easy to carry around.

Only on question though: there is no SCART entrance for the Framemeister. How do I connect RGB Scart cables?

EDIT: Just saw that there is a SCART-Adapter for the Framemeister. I can instead use a PAl SCART-Adapter for it right since the Framemeister comes with a japanese one.

[Ji-L87]

EDIT: Just saw that there is a SCART-Adapter for the Framemeister. I can instead use a PAl SCART-Adapter for it right since the Framemeister comes with a japanese one.

Yeah, you'll probably need a RGB 21pin jp to euroscart adapter, or a cable ending in the former. I posted a pinout just a bit up in this thread if you're interested.

[Yamazaki]

Hmm my Neo Geo uses a RGB SCART cable.

and I'll probably use a similar for my Duo-R.

so this should do the trick, right:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Micomsoft-Framemeister-XRGB-mini-adapter-EuroSCART-with-SYNC-Stripper-/110983695813?pt=UK_VideoGames_VideoGameAccessories_VideoGameAccessories_JN&hash=item19d724cdc5

[Ji-L87]

so this should do the trick, right:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Micomsoft-Framemeister-XRGB-mini-adapter-EuroSCART-with-SYNC-Stripper-/110983695813?pt=UK_VideoGames_VideoGameAccessories_VideoGameAccessories_JN&hash=item19d724cdc5

I see no reason why that shouldn't work : ) Cool thing that a syncstripper is built into the cable.

[Yamazaki]

Made another decision.

a friend is gonna build a custom PAL SCART adapter for me with a on/off switch for the syncstripper so that every kind of RGB scart cable can be connected.

[Yamazaki]

Just tested my RGB modded Neo Geo with a PAL RGB Scart on the Acer.

This is the result:



Rather ok right?

[Ji-L87]

That looks a bit better. Still a bit unnecessary block-ish/waxy looking...how's the monitor settings? Looks like it's quite a bit over-sharpened to me

[Yamazaki]

The sharpness is set to 60 (out of 100).

I still gotta try at what sharpness level it looks soft but not too soft.

But a Framemeister would help immense with the resolution right?

since the Monitor is not that bad in processing the RGB signal from SCART.



Never thought getting a somewaht CRT-like image would be such a hassle^^

[majors]

But a Framemeister would help immense with the resolution right?

It will bring back the scanlines making the image more of how it was intended to be viewed. The SLG3000 is a stand-alone unit for JUST scanlines but it's VGA, so you'll need some pin conversion (if it even works with SCART?)

You've read http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/ ?

Never thought getting a somewaht CRT-like image would be such a hassle^^

Welcome to our world.

[Ji-L87]

The sharpness is set to 60 (out of 100). I still gotta try at what sharpness level it looks soft but not too soft.

What happens if you go down low like 5 or so?

But a Framemeister would help immense with the resolution right?

Yep. Really, as long as any scaler you end up getting is outputing a resolution matching or close to the display's native resolution (1080p in this case) it will really help.

Never thought getting a somewaht CRT-like image would be such a hassle^^

It seems to be a bit of a lottery. Some LCDs are pretty decent with low-res games while others are horrible. I thought this monitor would perform better, but as of right now I'm wondering why they even bothered putting all those inputs on the back when the execution seems half-assed. An external scaler will always be better in a case like this, but it's sad that one have to resort to such measures. What I'm wondering myself right now is if you would have gotten a better result from proper TV in a similar size...doubt it, but not sure.

[Yamazaki]

A proper TV might have been the better solution.

Well, since I'm gonna play my retro stuff one day on the big 32" screen, a Framemeister would be inevitable anyway

[Yamazaki]

Ok guys.

I have decided that I will get a Framemeister

Probably from SolarisJapan. or does anyone know a better source with a good price?


One thing that I noticed is that the Neo Geo RGB scart screen is shifted to the left. As you can see in the screenshot posted above, it does not fit completely.

so I will need to figure out wether I can manually set it right (which should be possible since this is a TV/monitor hybrid).

[Yamazaki]

@Ji-87:

do you know wether I can manually adjust horizontal/vertical screen position with the Framemeister?

Since my monitor does not have that option (which is rather stupid).

A friend also told me that it could be the RGB SCART cable that I use and that it might have composite sync instead of composite video. Which might be the reason.

[Ji-L87]

do you know wether I can manually adjust horizontal/vertical screen position with the Framemeister?

I tried reading up a bit but I don't think the Framemeister offers many such options, but looking at the remote, there seems to be options for zooming/letterboxing, aspect ratio, gamma and such.

A friend also told me that it could be the RGB SCART cable that I use and that it might have composite sync instead of composite video. Which might be the reason.

That might be one explanation, to be honest, I'm not very knowledgeable about that kind of stuff and what effects raw sync cables might have on monitors, sorry 

But I'm not sure you'll have to adjust the vertical position much if you feed that monitor through hdmi.

[Yamazaki]

Had a chat yesterday with someone who has the Framemeister. Appearantly you can manually shift the screen horizotnal/vertical

And I have dont it and ordered a Framemeister

[Yamazaki]

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[Ji-L87]

I'd say that's certainly an improvement!
I feel sort of responsible for you having to shell out for an XRGB mini tho' 

[Yamazaki]

^^

it looks great! thanks again for all the help