Will there ever be a TG16 price crash?

[DildoKKKobold]

never found any evidence, but the rumor was someone, possibly from NA, bought out as many copies as they could find of a common Gameboy game and destroyed them to increase the price, as a sort of experiment.

It was Rampart for Gameboy. Uncommon but relatively cheap. Person in question bought every copy on eBay until the price exceeded $20, and no the games were not destroyed but released back into the market over time for a modest profit. Pat did a video regarding this cause and effect.

Actually, the email to Pat said he planned to release them back into the market for cheap to bring the price back down, but no one seller has done that over the past year. Also, its important to note, the game is back down to $8-10. So, if he spent $5-7 shipped on each copy, by the time he pays fees and shipping (usually 25-30%), he'll just about break even. Its not like he made anything (yet) on this, other than an interesting market experiment. Also, the fact that price dropped back down shows that you really can't really force prices high in the long term, just by attempting manipulation.

[xcrement5x]

R7 or gtfo

[StarDust4Ever]

B.S. like rarity ratings and guides are a large contributor to the gouging, collectard, etc problem.

Remember when someone "proved" that Magical Chase was a mail-order-only game, only available in the U.S. and after only a handful of people bothered to order it, TTi shutdown and 99% of the already small production run was crushed, incinerated and buried during a legal ceremony?

You know, what if the incineration part wasn't true, and next year someone stumbled upon a pallet of them inside some forgotten warehouse?

[esteban]

B.S. like rarity ratings and guides are a large contributor to the gouging, collectard, etc problem.

Remember when someone "proved" that Magical Chase was a mail-order-only game, only available in the U.S. and after only a handful of people bothered to order it, TTi shutdown and 99% of the already small production run was crushed, incinerated and buried during a legal ceremony?

You know, what if the incineration part wasn't true, and next year someone stumbled upon a pallet of them inside some forgotten warehouse?

Back when TTi was dissolved, I personally shredded hundreds of copies of Magical Chase, Hero Tonma, Air Zonk and, sadly Hatris (a North American version was ready to ship).

I wish I had grabbed a few, but I didn't want to lose my job.

[LostFlunky]

Fwiw Magical Chase was on the Donsal order forms and in stock for quite a while.  I am sure that is why so many copies have shown up for sale from Canada. I found mine in a junk store in Windsor, Ontario circa 1997.

[TheClash603]

B.S. like rarity ratings and guides are a large contributor to the gouging, collectard, etc problem.

Remember when someone "proved" that Magical Chase was a mail-order-only game, only available in the U.S. and after only a handful of people bothered to order it, TTi shutdown and 99% of the already small production run was crushed, incinerated and buried during a legal ceremony?

You know, what if the incineration part wasn't true, and next year someone stumbled upon a pallet of them inside some forgotten warehouse?

Back when TTi was dissolved, I personally shredded hundreds of copies of Magical Chase, Hero Tonma, Air Zonk and, sadly Hatris (a North American version was ready to ship).

I wish I had grabbed a few, but I didn't want to lose my job.

You've been reported to Simon Wiesenthal.

[seieienbu]

Actually, the email to Pat said he planned to release them back into the market for cheap to bring the price back down, but no one seller has done that over the past year. Also, its important to note, the game is back down to $8-10. So, if he spent $5-7 shipped on each copy, by the time he pays fees and shipping (usually 25-30%), he'll just about break even. Its not like he made anything (yet) on this, other than an interesting market experiment. Also, the fact that price dropped back down shows that you really can't really force prices high in the long term, just by attempting manipulation.

At this point it really seems there's too small of a sample size to determine anything via the sold auctions on ebay.  That being said, if you cherry pick the lowest single value then yeah, you might be able to make that claim.  As it is, I think that's disingenuous at best.  There are 4 GB Rampart sales in recent history.  The most recent one went for $8, yes, but the other 3 went for $15.

This guy brought the price up on a game single handed.  The price has not dropped back down to the $4 he was buying the games at originally.  Maybe they're not currently at the all time high price but they certainly didn't ever drop back down to the starting price.  The important thing to note here is that one person can affect prices over years. 

I say this next part at the risk of looking like a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic.  As I look at how many games have gone up in price to ridiculous highs I wonder if it's because of the market dictating prices or because of singular unscrupulous individuals profiteering in a hobby for exceedingly small time gain.  Seriously, I get the draw of making money from your hobby.  That said, the amount of money and more importantly the amount of profit you can make by becoming a low-stakes middle man price fixing "investor" is so low that I absolutely can't see the purpose in trying to be a pro reseller rather than getting a real job.  You're definitely making low money while simultaneously ruining the hobby for everyone else.

[esteban]

Actually, the email to Pat said he planned to release them back into the market for cheap to bring the price back down, but no one seller has done that over the past year. Also, its important to note, the game is back down to $8-10. So, if he spent $5-7 shipped on each copy, by the time he pays fees and shipping (usually 25-30%), he'll just about break even. Its not like he made anything (yet) on this, other than an interesting market experiment. Also, the fact that price dropped back down shows that you really can't really force prices high in the long term, just by attempting manipulation.

At this point it really seems there's too small of a sample size to determine anything via the sold auctions on ebay.  That being said, if you cherry pick the lowest single value then yeah, you might be able to make that claim.  As it is, I think that's disingenuous at best.  There are 4 GB Rampart sales in recent history.  The most recent one went for $8, yes, but the other 3 went for $15.

This guy brought the price up on a game single handed.  The price has not dropped back down to the $4 he was buying the games at originally.  Maybe they're not currently at the all time high price but they certainly didn't ever drop back down to the starting price.  The important thing to note here is that one person can affect prices over years. 

I say this next part at the risk of looking like a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic.  As I look at how many games have gone up in price to ridiculous highs I wonder if it's because of the market dictating prices or because of singular unscrupulous individuals profiteering in a hobby for exceedingly small time gain.  Seriously, I get the draw of making money from your hobby.  That said, the amount of money and more importantly the amount of profit you can make by becoming a low-stakes middle man price fixing "investor" is so low that I absolutely can't see the purpose in trying to be a pro reseller rather than getting a real job.  You're definitely making low money while simultaneously ruining the hobby for everyone else.

You would also have to factor in any "overall" upward trend of GB prices that the GB market had been experiencing, as a general trend.

[seieienbu]

You would also have to factor in any "overall" upward trend of GB prices that the GB market had been experiencing, as a general trend.

This is true, but by the low end a price doubling is a rather steep increase percentage-wise to begin with.  Quadrupling or (at the peak) going up 8-fold though?  That wasn't going to happen on its own instantly.

[bob]

rampart is fun

[xcrement5x]

I say this next part at the risk of looking like a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic.  As I look at how many games have gone up in price to ridiculous highs I wonder if it's because of the market dictating prices or because of singular unscrupulous individuals profiteering in a hobby for exceedingly small time gain.  Seriously, I get the draw of making money from your hobby.  That said, the amount of money and more importantly the amount of profit you can make by becoming a low-stakes middle man price fixing "investor" is so low that I absolutely can't see the purpose in trying to be a pro reseller rather than getting a real job.  You're definitely making low money while simultaneously ruining the hobby for everyone else.

I think the larger cause is the "gotta have it" mindset in conjunction with the market rising.  People see something and want to buy/play it instantly so they get the first decent looking BIN they see which seems to raise the price (because it seems like BIN prices are what are always going up and raising the "cost" of an item). 

I'll admit I'm guilty of finding something and jumping on it quickly so that don't have to worry about getting it later on down the line if/when the price goes up on it.  But of course at the same time I'll sit on watches for years waiting for something to show up at auction just to save a couple bucks.

[NoSexGex]

rampart is fun

Poor Rampart, everyone now remembers it best by that game nintentards used as a economy science project

[Mathius]

Esty, I didn't know you worked for TTI! 

[DildoKKKobold]

I say this next part at the risk of looking like a tinfoil hat wearing lunatic.  As I look at how many games have gone up in price to ridiculous highs I wonder if it's because of the market dictating prices or because of singular unscrupulous individuals profiteering in a hobby for exceedingly small time gain.  Seriously, I get the draw of making money from your hobby.  That said, the amount of money and more importantly the amount of profit you can make by becoming a low-stakes middle man price fixing "investor" is so low that I absolutely can't see the purpose in trying to be a pro reseller rather than getting a real job.  You're definitely making low money while simultaneously ruining the hobby for everyone else.

I don't think we disagree with each other all that much. Also, even if he started buying at $4, the price surely went up as he was trying to manipulate it. Even so, lets take the one completed BIN on eBay, and assume he was able to get every one of his 20 copies at $5 shipped, and sells every single copy at 15 free shipping (to match the sold listing). $10x20 = $200... but...

It costs a minimum of $2.61 to ship a game today, USPS. The envelope costs $0.10. He's paying $1.50 in eBay fees (assuming he isn't a power seller). Paypal fees are 2.9%, or $0.44, + $0.30 per transaction, so all his costs add up to $4.95 a sale, or $99 total. His 'experiment' netted him a whole whopping $101. For a years work.

My point is, it doesn't make sense to buy games at market value today, as an investment in their worth tomorrow. I highly doubt anyone is doing that on a massive scale.

THAT SAID...

I do think prices can be arbitrarily held high by the plenty of people that are in for the flip. I'm guilty of this, and yet, so is price-whiner gynt. Either refreshing eBay constantly to get that sweet too-low priced BIN, for the flip, or going to retro video game stores/conventions, finding things that are 'under current market value' and buying them for the flip. You might already have the game, but there is money to be made between the price its being sold for, and the price you can sell it for. Maybe you already own that game, or maybe you don't even want it, you just want money. The problem is, that removes it from the market, and forces a buyer who actual wants to keep it to pay your higher price. I think this is the only common form of profiteering in this hobby. It does prop up prices to a degree, but that isn't manipulation, its just how markets work.

[StarDust4Ever]

Whenever I go to GameXChange I look at the shelves and it's nothing but sports and throwaways, then a modest selection of good games under the glass with premium price tags.

Then every time I turn around, I see some asshat reseller with his smart phone comparing ebay prices to the shelf sitters, then walk up to the counter with a stack of games to buy. They generally don't even bother looking under the glass because those are already sold at premium.

At least I know who to blame as to why there's no local deals on hidden gems anymore. Nevermind the fact that the employees don't even know what Turbografx is and can't accept trade ins if it's not in the system.

[Mathius]

Whenever I go to GameXChange I look at the shelves and it's nothing but sports and throwaways, then a modest selection of good games under the glass with premium price tags.

Then every time I turn around, I see some asshat reseller with his smart phone comparing ebay prices to the shelf sitters, then walk up to the counter with a stack of games to buy. They generally don't even bother looking under the glass because those are already sold at premium.

At least I know who to blame as to why there's no local deals on hidden gems anymore. Nevermind the fact that the employees don't even know what Turbografx is and can't accept trade ins if it's not in the system.

This is pretty much why I quit going to my local game shops.

[roflmao]

I kinda hope that all these newer consoles that can emulate roms of old games (Polymega, Game Freak, Retron 5) will finally let people play the games they grew up with and not need to spend a fortune and bring the price down, but then I remember folks like PCE Works and I'm not so sure...

[StarDust4Ever]

I kinda hope that all these newer consoles that can emulate roms of old games (Polymega, Game Freak, Retron 5) will finally let people play the games they grew up with and not need to spend a fortune and bring the price down, but then I remember folks like PCE Works and I'm not so sure...

Last I checked, there was no massive price drop on Turbografx games after the Turbo Everdrive was released. Instead they shot up like a rocket.

Perhaps Turbochip price inflation fueled Everdrive sales, but the Everdrive did nothing to slow the trend. Nor did the recent Turbokon reprods. People who just want to play the games, ie Magical Chase, now have other option besides scoring an original game card, yet collectors continue to price themselves out of the market with no end in sight.

Surely noone takes a second mortgage on their home to own their personal holy grail???

[xcrement5x]

Surely noone takes a second mortgage on their home to own their personal holy grail???

The people who do that kind of crap are the same ones posting it up for sale 3 weeks later, saying that they need to sell some stuff because of bills.  Honestly, the inability of some people to separate needs and wants and plan for the future constantly infuriates me and makes really wish there was some sort of basic real life finance classes (not just general Economics) required for high schoolers. 

[SignOfZeta]

Please. These shitheads don't have mortgages.

[cr8zykuban0]

I honestly dont get why people buy holy grails or super pricy games only to sell later at a higher price? Either theyre trying to make a quick buck or theyre a piece of shit.

I think theyre a piece of shit.

[SignOfZeta]

They are so deaf and dumb to what games actually are they they get all their thrills just from buying one. The more expensive, the more of a thrill. Once they have it...it's basically useless, so they do the only other thing they can that is fun, selling it.

This phenomenon exists in many many many forms of collecting. It's new to gaming because gaming is cheap and new, but it's very common with art or Ferraris.

[esteban]

Esty, I didn't know you worked for TTI! 

I never did.

Not in reality, that is.

[Mathius]

Esty, I didn't know you worked for TTI! 

I never did.

Not in reality, that is.

If that was a joke then it flew right over my head 

whooooosh

[StarDust4Ever]

Esty, I didn't know you worked for TTI! 

I never did.

Not in reality, that is.

If that was a joke then it flew right over my head 

whooooosh

Perhaps he was under NDA and does not want to self-incriminate? Then again, if the company is disbanded, past NDA contracts are probably null and meaningless. Look at all these colorful stories from interviews with past Atari execs.

[PukeSter]

i just don't see the prices going down, if some of the rumors about resellers destroying copies of games to raise prices and stuff turns out to be true, anyways.

Is there evidence for this? Most gaming examples I have heard of destroying merch was corporate directives, and a few examples in other hobbies. I can see tossing worthless crap like 90s baseball cards, but not valuable games.

Some stores threw out neo geo aes games because barely anyone could afford them

[StarDust4Ever]

Some stores threw out neo geo aes games because barely anyone could afford them

I never understood the corporate climate of destroy merch rather than clearance it. Donate if you must. Is it for tax incentives? Closeout/clearance sales net you more profit than outright destruction of goods, which AFAIK is zero.

I mean look at Walmart and Best Buy have bargain DVD bins. Then stores like Big Lots sell closeout merch from other stores for cheap. Department stores clearance seasonal merch. I've bought $60 shirts for $3 in March because they were long sleeved. Sat in the closet for six months but I got good usage of those clothes.

[GoldenWheels]

I never understood the corporate climate of destroy merch rather than clearance it. Donate if you must. Is it for tax incentives? Closeout/clearance sales net you more profit than outright destruction of goods, which AFAIK is zero.

I mean look at Walmart and Best Buy have bargain DVD bins. Then stores like Big Lots sell closeout merch from other stores for cheap. Department stores clearance seasonal merch. I've bought $60 shirts for $3 in March because they were long sleeved. Sat in the closet for six months but I got good usage of those clothes.

At a certain point cheap goods can bring back less than the value of the work required to fill the order. At least, that's how it is in mail order for some things. Somebody has to pick, pack, and ship those clearance items. Costs money!

In the book industry, eventually stuff just gets pulped.

[Gentlegamer]

Merchandise is also destroyed to prevent fraudulent returns.

[DildoKKKobold]

I never understood the corporate climate of destroy merch rather than clearance it. Donate if you must. Is it for tax incentives? Closeout/clearance sales net you more profit than outright destruction of goods, which AFAIK is zero.

Except, you still have to wait for clearance items to sell. So long as your inventory is greater than zero, you can't write off that inventory as a loss. So, even if you mark things down to $1, and they don't sell, you can't claim the loss yet, even if the cost of production was $10. If you want to have your business not pay taxes when realistically, it shouldn't, you need to rid yourself of that inventory. Sometimes, they do that by selling at extreme discounts to places like Big Lots. If that doesn't work, your only legal option is to physical destroy it. It isn't so much corporate culture as it is just tax law.